Burning a book does not equal burning down a structure like a building. If you think so, you are part of the problem.
costwise it doesn't, but symbolically that book means more to more people than that building. if that building burned it would affect the 50 people that worship ther and a maybe some others that diagree with it, however you can potentially piss off millions to a billion muslims by burning those books for no good reason....and if you fail to recognize that, then you sir are the one that is part of the problem....
How do you feel about flag burning?
I'm already on record saying this is some stupid shit, but that it doesn't justify any violent reaction.
flag burning i have no issue with.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
costwise it doesn't, but symbolically that book means more to more people than that building. if that building burned it would affect the 50 people that worship ther and a maybe some others that diagree with it, however you can potentially piss off millions to a billion muslims by burning those books for no good reason....and if you fail to recognize that, then you sir are the one that is part of the problem....
How do you feel about flag burning?
I'm already on record saying this is some stupid shit, but that it doesn't justify any violent reaction.
flag burning i have no issue with.
What about the millions of people it could piss off for no good reason?
What about the millions of people it could piss off for no good reason?
doesn't matter to me. if someone can feel so blindly passionate about a piece of cloth with stripes on it, it is their issue, not mine... i wouldn't burn a flag, so i would not be the one pissing off people for no reason...
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
What about the millions of people it could piss off for no good reason?
doesn't matter to me. if someone can feel so blindly passionate about a piece of cloth with stripes on it, it is their issue, not mine... i wouldn't burn a flag, so i would not be the one pissing off people for no reason...
I guess I don't see why you believe this but then want Terry Jones' church to be burned down for burning a few books. To me, they are very similar...almost exactly the same thing. Is it because the reaction from people offended by Flag burnings is perceived to be much less violent than what most are worried about here? Isn't that more a reflection on the followers of the book than the idiot that burns it?
What about the millions of people it could piss off for no good reason?
doesn't matter to me. if someone can feel so blindly passionate about a piece of cloth with stripes on it, it is their issue, not mine... i wouldn't burn a flag, so i would not be the one pissing off people for no reason...
I guess I don't see why you believe this but then want Terry Jones' church to be burned down for burning a few books. To me, they are very similar...almost exactly the same thing. Is it because the reaction from people offended by Flag burnings is perceived to be much less violent than what most are worried about here? Isn't that more a reflection on the followers of the book than the idiot that burns it?
no i said "it would be funny", as in "it would be ironic" if someone burnt down the den of hatred. i did not say i would burn it down or i would like someone to burn it down. hell even if i wished someone would, it would not be me responsible for it.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
I'm already on record saying this is some stupid shit, but that it doesn't justify any violent reaction.
...
Yes... there is no justification for violent reprisals... just as there is never a justification to punch someone because of an exchange of words... but, that does not say they will not occur.
You and I agree... that Muslim soldiers in Afghanistan should not look at their Christian American counterparts as part of this idiotic display of media attention and do harm to them... but, I think we both cannot say for sure that there isn't some dumbfuck Afghani soldier that cannot seperate in his mind the two and WILL do something about it. Just like the dumbfuck American that thinks building an Islamic Community Center near Ground Zero justifies beating the shit out of some poor clerk at a 7-11.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm already on record saying this is some stupid shit, but that it doesn't justify any violent reaction.
...
Yes... there is no justification for violent reprisals... just as there is never a justification to punch someone because of an exchange of words... but, that does not say they will not occur.
You and I agree... that Muslim soldiers in Afghanistan should not look at their Christian American counterparts as part of this idiotic display of media attention and do harm to them... but, I think we both cannot say for sure that there isn't some dumbfuck Afghani soldier that cannot seperate in his mind the two and WILL do something about it. Just like the dumbfuck American that thinks building an Islamic Community Center near Ground Zero justifies beating the shit out of some poor clerk at a 7-11.
What about the millions of people it could piss off for no good reason?
doesn't matter to me. if someone can feel so blindly passionate about a piece of cloth with stripes on it, it is their issue, not mine... i wouldn't burn a flag, so i would not be the one pissing off people for no reason...
I guess I don't see why you believe this but then want Terry Jones' church to be burned down for burning a few books. To me, they are very similar...almost exactly the same thing. Is it because the reaction from people offended by Flag burnings is perceived to be much less violent than what most are worried about here? Isn't that more a reflection on the followers of the book than the idiot that burns it?
It because we know that you (and Americans in general) will not start fire-bombing embassies because of a flag / book burning in another country. Where as a few books being burned here will incite world riots.
So, we must cater to the idiots and fanatics. Otherwise, we wouldn't be discussing this topic.
Isn't it censorship to tell them they can't burn it?
If we aren't supposed to judge all Muslims by the acts of the extremist terrorists.. why is it okay for them to judge all Americans/Christians on this whackjob? And why does America feel like it should apologize or condemn this guy when I don't hear too many condemnations coming from the Muslim world. The evil American Christians are being intolerant but isn't that what the extremists are of anyone but themselves?
Why are they giving this idiot and his minions any press at all to begin with?
Now as for my personal opinion on the matter, I think this is ridiculous and will accomplish nothing. I don't think he should burn the quran any more than I think anyone should burn the bible or the torah, etc. Some things should be sacred and others should respect what others hold sacred.
Isn't it censorship to tell them they can't burn it?
If we aren't supposed to judge all Muslims by the acts of the extremist terrorists.. why is it okay for them to judge all Americans/Christians on this whackjob? And why does America feel like it should apologize or condemn this guy when I don't hear too many condemnations coming from the Muslim world. The evil American Christians are being intolerant but isn't that what the extremists are of anyone but themselves?
Why are they giving this idiot and his minions any press at all to begin with?
Now as for my personal opinion on the matter, I think this is ridiculous and will accomplish nothing. I don't think he should burn the quran any more than I think anyone should burn the bible or the torah, etc. Some things should be sacred and others should respect what others hold sacred.
...
Most people here pretty much agree with this.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I was expecting this, but not the reason for it. This will give certain morons the notion that they can get what they want if they bully and threaten, and there was no need for the cultural centre to move (not a mosque, not at ground zero), but at least some of the slightly less dumb of those morons might realise that (shock, horror!) not all Muslims are mindless extremists and can even be rational, reasonable and conciliatory. Unlike said morons...
US pastor Terry Jones cancels Koran burning
(BBC)
The pastor of a small US church who wanted to burn copies of the Koran has cancelled his protest.
Terry Jones said he was calling off the Florida event after the group behind a planned mosque close to Ground Zero in New York agreed to relocate it.
Mr Jones had said the burning would be a stand against terrorism, but his plan was internationally condemned.
President Barack Obama had warned Mr Jones the event would be "a recruitment bonanza" for al-Qaeda.
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Here's the update:
Pastor cancels burning, says mosque moving
But sources close to imam behind NYC project deny there's a deal
GAINESVILLE, Fla. — The pastor planning to burn Qurans on the Sept. 11 anniversary said Thursday that he had called off the event after being given assurances that the Muslim group seeking to build an Islamic center near the World Trade Center site would move the project.
"We would consider that a sign from God," the Rev. Terry Jones told reporters.
But sources close to the imam behind the New York mosque denied any deal had been struck.
And Sharif Al-Gamal, owner of the building where the mosque and cultural center would be housed, told NBC News that there had had no discussions with Jones.
Jones insisted, however, that he had spoken to the imam, and "I have his word that he will move the mosque to a different location."
Jones also said he would travel to New York on Saturday to meet with officials of the mosque project.
President Barack Obama earlier implored Jones to call off his Quran-burning "stunt," saying it would jeopardize U.S. troops abroad.
Apparently the wacko pastor and his wife sell furniture on ebay for a living -- If anyone is interested in buying some furniture here is his ebay info.....
"We would consider that a sign from God," the Rev. Terry Jones told reporters.
...a sign that some Muslims are more reasonable and tolerant than some Christians, perhaps? That Islam is not necessarily a violent religion any more than Christianity is? That perhaps Islam is not "of the Devil" but is just another way of looking at things that has equal validity as yours?
I'm sure these are the epiphanies Terry Jones is having right now. :roll:
Meanwhile, the 1,600,000,000 hellbound adherents of that religion he condemns as violent and intolerant is tonight celebrating Eid-ul Fitr, a feast of peace, reconciliation and forgiveness.
Something tells me Jesus Christ would be more likely to approve of that, than of bookburning...
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
My issue is with how some people have no trouble justifying American flag burning and Bible burning while getting all fired up about Koran burning. I kinda wish I had been involved with this board during the whole Danish cartoon threat fiasco. Would have been interesting to see how people here reacted to that.
Sorry, I'm just jumping in with out reading the whole conversation...... I just wanted to know how a Flag and a Bible are equal? Are you equally insulted by either of the two being burned? .....
No he's just insulted by the flag burning (I think?)
Apparently the flag only represents the "good" of America...
I thought flags just represented nationalities but maybe i'm missing something....
My issue is with how some people have no trouble justifying American flag burning and Bible burning while getting all fired up about Koran burning. I kinda wish I had been involved with this board during the whole Danish cartoon threat fiasco. Would have been interesting to see how people here reacted to that.
Sorry, I'm just jumping in with out reading the whole conversation...... I just wanted to know how a Flag and a Bible are equal? Are you equally insulted by either of the two being burned? .....
No he's just insulted by the flag burning (I think?)
Apparently the flag only represents the "good" of America...
I thought flags just represented nationalities but maybe i'm missing something....
Words are fun! I said to me that's what the American flag represents. My point was that books and flags and etc mean different things to different people. Thus it seemed a bit of a double-standard to say that burning the flag was ok b/c it represented the muslim civilians that had been killed by American bombs, but burning the koran was not b/c just represented a religion.
No, I don't think the flag and a bible are the same thing. They were merely examples of Western concepts that, when defiled, don't seem to arose the same angst as when it's the koran. I'm not asking anyone to change their reaction, rather, I find it an interesting phenomenon worth discussion.
This guy must represent many Christians, cause I haven't seen any high ranking/non high ranking Conservatives speak out against this guy and his 3 followers. I think Mitt Romney spoke out, but that's probably because he's a Mormon - and this wannabe pastor hates Mormons too.
I haven't heard Fox's call this guy a wacko - nor have I heard from the many conservatives on this board speak out against this guy and his 3 followers.....
It's my opinion that many of these fake conservative Christians support what this idiot is doing.....
Maybe your not paying attention.Or maybe you just trying to bait people like me. I don't support what this nut job wants to do or did want to do,but he has every right to do it. Just like i dont support the location of the cordoba project,but they have every right under our constituion to worship where they please.
What about the millions of people it could piss off for no good reason?
doesn't matter to me. if someone can feel so blindly passionate about a piece of cloth with stripes on it, it is their issue, not mine... i wouldn't burn a flag, so i would not be the one pissing off people for no reason...
wow gimmie. :shock: Im just curious have you ever been to any 3rd world countries for any length of time ? I have and I wanted to kiss the ground when I got back home. our fore fathers gave and sacrificed it all for this country and the flag to you is just some peice of cloth ? :wtf: I would love to hear you say this to a WW2 vet in person or any veteran for that matter. But they would just probably laugh at you bcos you don't realize just how ignorant you sound. You're entitled to your opinion,but how about some respect ? I mean cmon man.
What about the millions of people it could piss off for no good reason?
doesn't matter to me. if someone can feel so blindly passionate about a piece of cloth with stripes on it, it is their issue, not mine... i wouldn't burn a flag, so i would not be the one pissing off people for no reason...
wow gimmie. :shock: Im just curious have you ever been to any 3rd world countries for any length of time ? I have and I wanted to kiss the ground when I got back home. our fore fathers gave and sacrificed it all for this country and the flag to you is just some peice of cloth ? :wtf: I would love to hear you say this to a WW2 vet in person or any veteran for that matter. But they would just probably laugh at you bcos you don't realize just how ignorant you sound. You're entitled to your opinion,but how about some respect ? I mean cmon man.
if you want to go fight and die for a piece of cloth be my guest. that sort of thing is not my bag, baby. how many have killed people or been maimed or been killed themselves in the name of that flag?? how many have suffered at the hands of those wearing that flag on their shoulder? how many people have become drones after being forced to blindly recite the pledge of allegiance every day? i respect veterans, especially those in the greatest generation of WWII because they fought a war they had to fight. i respect the vietnam vets because those poor bastards got drafted and many of them fought against their will. i just think that i have more important things to wory about in my life than the flag and i believe that the nationalism that goes along with the flag is the root cause of wars in the first place.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Comments
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
What about the millions of people it could piss off for no good reason?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I guess I don't see why you believe this but then want Terry Jones' church to be burned down for burning a few books. To me, they are very similar...almost exactly the same thing. Is it because the reaction from people offended by Flag burnings is perceived to be much less violent than what most are worried about here? Isn't that more a reflection on the followers of the book than the idiot that burns it?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Yes... there is no justification for violent reprisals... just as there is never a justification to punch someone because of an exchange of words... but, that does not say they will not occur.
You and I agree... that Muslim soldiers in Afghanistan should not look at their Christian American counterparts as part of this idiotic display of media attention and do harm to them... but, I think we both cannot say for sure that there isn't some dumbfuck Afghani soldier that cannot seperate in his mind the two and WILL do something about it. Just like the dumbfuck American that thinks building an Islamic Community Center near Ground Zero justifies beating the shit out of some poor clerk at a 7-11.
Hail, Hail!!!
+1 and 2
So, we must cater to the idiots and fanatics. Otherwise, we wouldn't be discussing this topic.
I have a few thoughts/questions.
Would the uproar be the same if Muslims were burning bibles? Hasn't that happened already?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... html?cat=9
Isn't it censorship to tell them they can't burn it?
If we aren't supposed to judge all Muslims by the acts of the extremist terrorists.. why is it okay for them to judge all Americans/Christians on this whackjob? And why does America feel like it should apologize or condemn this guy when I don't hear too many condemnations coming from the Muslim world. The evil American Christians are being intolerant but isn't that what the extremists are of anyone but themselves?
Why are they giving this idiot and his minions any press at all to begin with?
Now as for my personal opinion on the matter, I think this is ridiculous and will accomplish nothing. I don't think he should burn the quran any more than I think anyone should burn the bible or the torah, etc. Some things should be sacred and others should respect what others hold sacred.
Most people here pretty much agree with this.
Hail, Hail!!!
US pastor Terry Jones cancels Koran burning
(BBC)
The pastor of a small US church who wanted to burn copies of the Koran has cancelled his protest.
Terry Jones said he was calling off the Florida event after the group behind a planned mosque close to Ground Zero in New York agreed to relocate it.
Mr Jones had said the burning would be a stand against terrorism, but his plan was internationally condemned.
President Barack Obama had warned Mr Jones the event would be "a recruitment bonanza" for al-Qaeda.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Pastor cancels burning, says mosque moving
But sources close to imam behind NYC project deny there's a deal
GAINESVILLE, Fla. — The pastor planning to burn Qurans on the Sept. 11 anniversary said Thursday that he had called off the event after being given assurances that the Muslim group seeking to build an Islamic center near the World Trade Center site would move the project.
"We would consider that a sign from God," the Rev. Terry Jones told reporters.
But sources close to the imam behind the New York mosque denied any deal had been struck.
And Sharif Al-Gamal, owner of the building where the mosque and cultural center would be housed, told NBC News that there had had no discussions with Jones.
Jones insisted, however, that he had spoken to the imam, and "I have his word that he will move the mosque to a different location."
Jones also said he would travel to New York on Saturday to meet with officials of the mosque project.
President Barack Obama earlier implored Jones to call off his Quran-burning "stunt," saying it would jeopardize U.S. troops abroad.
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V ... andcompany
...a sign that some Muslims are more reasonable and tolerant than some Christians, perhaps? That Islam is not necessarily a violent religion any more than Christianity is? That perhaps Islam is not "of the Devil" but is just another way of looking at things that has equal validity as yours?
I'm sure these are the epiphanies Terry Jones is having right now. :roll:
Meanwhile, the 1,600,000,000 hellbound adherents of that religion he condemns as violent and intolerant is tonight celebrating Eid-ul Fitr, a feast of peace, reconciliation and forgiveness.
Something tells me Jesus Christ would be more likely to approve of that, than of bookburning...
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Apparently the flag only represents the "good" of America...
I thought flags just represented nationalities but maybe i'm missing something....
If Anwar Al-Awlaki & Pastor Jones both help Al-Qaeda recruit, why hasn't Obama ordered the CIA to kill Jones as well?
not that i think it's acceptable for the CIA to carry out assassinations. because i don't, and it's not.
No, I don't think the flag and a bible are the same thing. They were merely examples of Western concepts that, when defiled, don't seem to arose the same angst as when it's the koran. I'm not asking anyone to change their reaction, rather, I find it an interesting phenomenon worth discussion.
That being said, maybe this wacko supports bible burning as well...
Maybe your not paying attention.Or maybe you just trying to bait people like me. I don't support what this nut job wants to do or did want to do,but he has every right to do it. Just like i dont support the location of the cordoba project,but they have every right under our constituion to worship where they please.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/howard ... id=topnews
wow gimmie. :shock: Im just curious have you ever been to any 3rd world countries for any length of time ? I have and I wanted to kiss the ground when I got back home. our fore fathers gave and sacrificed it all for this country and the flag to you is just some peice of cloth ? :wtf: I would love to hear you say this to a WW2 vet in person or any veteran for that matter. But they would just probably laugh at you bcos you don't realize just how ignorant you sound. You're entitled to your opinion,but how about some respect ? I mean cmon man.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."