Petraeus Condemns U.S. Church's Plan to Burn Qurans
gimmesometruth27
St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
religious zealotry and bigotry will be the end of us all....i do not understand the statement that "pastor" terry jones is trying to make....burning their holy book is only going to inflame tensions more, even though the tensions are mainly one sided right now...and even after he burns the book, the ashes will remain, and it is not like there will be millions less muslims in the US and a billion less muslims in the world...to me it is a really stupid, racist, and hate filled gesture, and if they go through with this and one soldier is killed because of it, mr. jones should be held as an accessory to murder....
Petraeus Condemns U.S. Church's Plan to Burn Qurans
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 93116.html
KABUL—The top U.S. commander in Afghanistan said the planned burning of Qurans on Sept. 11 by a Florida church could put the lives of American troops in danger and damage the war effort.
Gen. David Petraeus said the Taliban would exploit the demonstration for propaganda purposes, drumming up anger toward the U.S. and making it harder for allied troops to carry out their mission of protecting Afghan civilians.
"It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort," Gen. Petraeus said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community."
Hundreds of Afghans attended a demonstration in Kabul on Monday to protest the plans of Florida pastor Terry Jones, who has said he will burn the Quran on Sept. 11.
Afghan protesters chanted "death to America" and speakers called on the U.S. to withdraw its military convoy. Some of the protesters threw rocks at a passing military convoy, although officials told the rock-throwers to stop.
Military officials fear the protests are likely to spread beyond Kabul to other Afghan cities. In interviews with various media outlets, Mr. Jones has denied his protest will put troops in danger. Mr. Jones has been denied a permit for the demonstration but has said he plans to go forward with the his protest anyway.
Mr. Jones leads a tiny church of just 50 people, but his threat to burn the Muslim holy book has been condemned around the world and has garnered him international attention.
Gen. Petraeus declined to elaborate on precisely what kinds of threats or violence could occur in the wake of such a demonstration. But westerners in Afghanistan have been warned away from restaurants and other public places as tensions arise over the matter.
A report in Newsweek, later retracted, that a U.S. interrogator at the Guantanamo Bay prison had flushed a Quran down a toilet set off riots in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world.
Officials fear that video of a members of Mr. Jones's church burning of Qurans could set off similar violence and stepped up attacks against U.S. troops.
Military leaders usually try to distance themselves from politics, so the decision by Gen. Petraeus to speak out to try and stop the burning is unusual. But last year Gen. Ray Odierno, the top commander in Iraq, asked President Barack Obama to stop the release of photos showing the abuse of Iraqi detainees, arguing pictures of Muslims being abused could touch off violence in Iraq and potentially slow down the withdrawal.
Petraeus Condemns U.S. Church's Plan to Burn Qurans
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 93116.html
KABUL—The top U.S. commander in Afghanistan said the planned burning of Qurans on Sept. 11 by a Florida church could put the lives of American troops in danger and damage the war effort.
Gen. David Petraeus said the Taliban would exploit the demonstration for propaganda purposes, drumming up anger toward the U.S. and making it harder for allied troops to carry out their mission of protecting Afghan civilians.
"It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort," Gen. Petraeus said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community."
Hundreds of Afghans attended a demonstration in Kabul on Monday to protest the plans of Florida pastor Terry Jones, who has said he will burn the Quran on Sept. 11.
Afghan protesters chanted "death to America" and speakers called on the U.S. to withdraw its military convoy. Some of the protesters threw rocks at a passing military convoy, although officials told the rock-throwers to stop.
Military officials fear the protests are likely to spread beyond Kabul to other Afghan cities. In interviews with various media outlets, Mr. Jones has denied his protest will put troops in danger. Mr. Jones has been denied a permit for the demonstration but has said he plans to go forward with the his protest anyway.
Mr. Jones leads a tiny church of just 50 people, but his threat to burn the Muslim holy book has been condemned around the world and has garnered him international attention.
Gen. Petraeus declined to elaborate on precisely what kinds of threats or violence could occur in the wake of such a demonstration. But westerners in Afghanistan have been warned away from restaurants and other public places as tensions arise over the matter.
A report in Newsweek, later retracted, that a U.S. interrogator at the Guantanamo Bay prison had flushed a Quran down a toilet set off riots in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world.
Officials fear that video of a members of Mr. Jones's church burning of Qurans could set off similar violence and stepped up attacks against U.S. troops.
Military leaders usually try to distance themselves from politics, so the decision by Gen. Petraeus to speak out to try and stop the burning is unusual. But last year Gen. Ray Odierno, the top commander in Iraq, asked President Barack Obama to stop the release of photos showing the abuse of Iraqi detainees, arguing pictures of Muslims being abused could touch off violence in Iraq and potentially slow down the withdrawal.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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America! freedoms!
the only freedom they advocate is the freedom to hate.
they' will stand there burning qurans, thinking they're terribly clever and pleased with themselves, wearing their crappy old made in China flag pins and hiding behind their bibles.
they really aren't that smart.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
ugh....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
oh yeah.. me too.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I agree with you that it SHOULDN'T be taken so seriously so as to endanger anyone and we SHOULDN'T have to walk on egg shells. But the fact is that it WILL put people in danger. I'm all for standing up for principle, but sometimes you have to live in reality. Are you willing to knowingly put people in danger just because the world doesn't work the way you think it should? I'm not.
I have to say, I Petraeus's statement gives me a lot more respect for him. Finally someone is acknowledging the reality of how the things we do can result in the things that are done to us. (Does this make him anti-American? :roll: ) It's nice to see someone acknowledge that the whole "America - Fuck Yeah!" and "We'll stick a boot in their ass from the red, white, & blue" attitude is not only not the right thing to do, but it's not safe for our country and it's not safe for our troops. How can this so-called preacher continue with his supposedly pro-USA plan when the General himself has said it would endanger the troops?? Does this guy support our troops or not?
Anyway, I think if he does go through with it the media should refrain from giving him too much attention. They don't need to feed into the frenzy. (And I don't think this is similar at all to failing to report detainee abuse.)
Witches, qurans, crosses on your neighbours lawn... beatles' albums...
But you burn their American flag and LOOK OUT!
Well...yeah. I mean this whole burning books thing seems really stupid and hateful to me, but he probably sees himself as responding to the same sort of stupid hatred directed towards him by extreme Muslim clerics off in who-know-where. Stupidity and hatred are not uniquely American vices.
wise to do so? Well, not so much.
Now that the formalities are out of the way, let me seethe a little bit on this church specifically, and their brand of christianity generally. I did sweep by their homepage, which confirmed that they are precisely the type of folks I truly hate. That's strong coming from me, but I really do. Hate teaching pompous endtime hell-fixated righteous assholes of the tenth degree. Why? They are not remotely acting what they preach, or rather, they choose to be righteous hatefilled asses about it. They're not after winning people over with the good message, their goal is to scare people into submission on threat of hell, and preach hate towards the rest of the world, which is "of the devil". So that's basically saying that at least 4/5 of humanity is evil and guided by the devil. And if you press them on the subject, I suspect they aren't too keen on catholics either. And if you come right down to it, anyone outside their church (or accepted affiliates) is headed for hell. When you preach fear and hatred towards your common man, you ARE evil, even if you claim to do it for God. If god hates evil, he certainly hates you.
Sectarian righteous and hate-filled fuckers without whom the world would be considerably closer to our concept of heaven. ....fuck.....you!
Now that I'm done, I'd like to point out that I'm raised among people leaning that way. That is: rather fundamentalist christian attitudes. Which may be why I feel so strongly about such people, or rather those that take advantage of and spearhead these people with messages of hate. These days usually directed towards muslims.
And this was not directed at christians in general, I again stress that it is directed at this particular noxious brand of it.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
And I'm sure that's the goal... Opportunistic nutjobs like this benefit only when there is something to rail against... If he can get one negative reaction from the Muslim community, it will enable him to make the evil boogyman even bigger.
"Pastors" like this don't care about any of the new testament lessons about love, forgiveness, etc... only about making money off the fears and hatred of their followers.
Reminds me a bit of the right wing talk radio guys... they screamed and yelled leading up to the 2008 election of how terrible Obama is.... screamed and yelled about the health care bill... when inside they wanted nothing more than Obama to get elected, or the bill to pass... they don't care about anyone listening or being "great americans", with evil democrats in charge, they make the most money and get the biggest ratings. (and it works the opposite way too, but there are a lot fewer left wing talk radio types out there).
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I agree with you say about our not being in Afghanisatan. No matter how much we think we can change them by building a few schools and trying to get them to enjoy Big Macs as much as we do, we can never change their culture. And their culture is steeped in religion. They create their laws based in religion.
That being said, even though you and I believe we should not be there does not change the fact that we ARE there. And our soldiers are trying to train the Afghani soldiers to stand up on their own. Those soldiers go out on raid with our soldiers. Those Muslim soldiers are going out with our 'Christian' soldiers to capture and kill Muslim insurgents.
This idiot in Florida is a couple thousand miles away from an Afghani (Muslim) solider with an AK-74 watching his back in a nighttime raid. He (Pastor Dick) is giving people in and sympathetic with the Taliban and Al Qaeda the best recruiting tool they could ever imagine.
...
Finally... I believe you'd be walking on eggshells if you were tasked to oversee a raid being conducted by Afghani troops and you were wearing a cross around your neck. NOT burning Bibles is NOT walking on eggshells... it is what people with common sense do. Fucking idiots looking to piss people off are the ones who burn Bibles, books and flags.
Hail, Hail!!!
Also the publicity aspect... this little drama goes along the same route that Britney Spears would do to drum us free publicity by showing off her rancid pussy. Pastor Numbnuts is getting worldwide media exposure for his 50 person church.
Like they say... 'They' being the media whoring assholes... ANY publicity is publicity.
Hail, Hail!!!
is this the same nut running the "Christian" service in NY, he's from FL too?
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_ ... ero_church
--A bigoted pastor who has assailed gays and Muslims is launching the "9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero" a mere two blocks from the World Trade Center site this Sunday, but so far the project hasn't drawn a peep of protest from those who are outraged by the "ground zero mosque."
Pastor Bill Keller of Florida said today he will begin preaching Sunday at the Marriott at 85 West Street (see proximity to ground zero here). A weekly service is planned at the hotel until the $8 million 9/11 Christian Center finds a permanent space. (Fundraising is going well, Keller told Salon today.)
To get a sense of where Keller is coming from, consider his project's website, which calls Islam a religion of "hate and death" whose adherents will go to hell. It also says: "Islam is a wonderful religion... for PEDOPHILES!"
Keller is the same pastor who hosted a birther infomercial that encouraged viewers to send him and a partner donations to advance the birther cause. His Internet ministry explicitly calls President Obama the new Hitler. He calls homosexuality a perversion. And in 2008, he targeted presidential contender Mitt Romney for being Mormon with a campaign called "voting for Satan."
In short, if critics of the Park51 Islamic community center, which is explicitly welcoming of all faiths, truly believe that there is a "zone of solemnity" around ground zero (as Gov. Pat Quinn put it), they should be horrified at Keller's 9/11 Christian Center.
Ditto for those who believe that religious leaders should not build "deliberately provocative" projects around ground zero, as another mosque opponent put it.
(An enterprising reporter could no doubt find some Sept. 11 families who are offended by Keller's project, just as an enterprising reporter did in the beginning of the Park51 controversy.)
And if there was ever a case of insensitivity to Sept. 11 -- another frequent argument of the anti-mosque crowd -- consider the fact that Keller has a history of seeking to profit from his various projects (one, called Gold for Souls, involved telling people to simply mail him their gold and jewelry). The 9-11 Christian Center appears to be no different. The project's website features a prominent link telling viewers to "Earn $$$ - Click Here!" It goes to a letter from Keller offering people a 10 percent referral cut on donations from their friends to the 9/11 Christian Center.
To be perfectly clear, Keller should be permitted to build anything he wants as long as it's legal.
But the only logic by which Keller's project would not be horrifying to those who oppose Park51 is if they believe all Muslims, including the progressive Muslim Americans behind Park51, should be treated as suspicious or even in the same category as the Sept. 11 terrorists. If mosque opponents' concerns are truly about sensitivity to the neighborhood around ground zero -- and not about Muslims -- we'll hear them denounce Keller loudly in the coming days.
* Justin Elliott is a Salon reporter. Reach him by email at <!-- e --><a href="mailto:jelliott@salon.com">jelliott@salon.com</a><!-- e --> and follow him on Twitter @ElliottJustin More Justin Elliott
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Like burning flags, it's just dumb and done by people with nothing worthwhile to say.
That's exactly right... all it does is incite a reaction... an extreme reaction. Like, imagine what would happen to some idiot burning an American flag at a Veteran's Day or Memorial Day parade... he'd probably get a beat down. Free speech? Yes... but, free speech does not mean it comes without a risk. Does a flag burning deserve a beating? I'd say no... but, that doesn't mean it won't happen. I do believe that there should be a penalty for stupidity... like being stupid enough to burn a flag in front of a bunch of active duty, reservists and vets on Memorial Day. Kind of like trying to ride a baby bear in the forrest with the mother bears only a few feet away, stupidity. Has risks.
I think this pastor guy is just out for publicity... which has worked.
Hail, Hail!!!
It's too bad there are people like this "pastor".
I bet he's trying to make a correlation between having the freedom to do something and whether or not you should really do it anyhow...ie building the mosque (or cultural center in Manhattan). Maybe I'm giving him too much credit there. He's probably just a hateful idiot that wants to get a reaction.
It's the same behavior that children display. They do something they know is wrong just to see the reaction.
Fear is a path to the dark side. Sorry just watched the Star Wars Marathon.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Didn't the last 3 Star Wars movies totally ruin the first three? I take it, I wasn't the only one that wanted to pimp slap that whiney bitch, Annie. How did Annie... become Darth Vader... the ultimate villian?
Hail, Hail!!!
The sad difference between what this guy is doing and people burning flags in front of vets on Memorial Day is that the flag-burners are pretty much only putting themselves in danger. This "pastor" is putting others in danger. How convenient for him to be able to act like an idiot and have others suffer the consequences.
Yes, that is true. This guy IS a fucking coward because he has the luxury of an ocean between him.
If you ask me... if he really DOES want to send his message to the Insurgents and Al Qaeda... he and his cowardice followers should burn the Koran in the tribal regions of NorthWestern Pakistan.
Hail, Hail!!!
their culture may be steeped in religion but it wasn't always so. before the US came in to give the russians their vietnam, policies were in place to give women many rights, including schools with both girls and boys, the right to vote, the right to choose who they married, minimum marry age of 16. a lot of that went out the window when the US opted to fund radical Islam in the region, which of course eventually led to the Taliban. so yeah, now religion is very much part of their culture, but a big reason why is US foreign policy.
and burning books is a form of censorship. a form that Hitler used, as i recall.