strasburg.. such a shame

neilybabes86

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_le ... mlb-265646

Yellow Ledbelly

Yep. Really is a shame but it really doesn't surprise me

81

they say pitchers that get tommy john surgery often come back and throw harder than before......

NoHelmetHardHead

Mark Prior anyone?

Indifference71

That's brutal for the Nats....only 22 years old though. He should bounce back quickly and he'll prob come back even stronger....

Indifference71

NoHelmetHardHead wrote:

Mark Prior anyone?

Prior never had Tommy John. He was just a huge pussy.

NoHelmetHardHead

Same throwing motion though, a lot of strain on the shoulder and elbow, it usually takes a full year to recover from tommy john though, doubt he'll be full strength until 2012 which is a shame, hes fun to watch

SPEEDY MCCREADY

So??
Lets discuss.....

Why is it back in the 50's 60's 70's pitchers could throw 250-300 innings a year......120-140 pitches a game......throw 10-15 complete games a year......start 30-40 games a year....and never really have arm problems?????

neilybabes86

81 wrote:

they say pitchers that get tommy john surgery often come back and throw harder than before......

yea but your're missing 12 -18 months off the bat..and their are no guarantees

FearTheBeard

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

So??
Lets discuss.....

Why is it back in the 50's 60's 70's pitchers could throw 250-300 innings a year......120-140 pitches a game......throw 10-15 complete games a year......start 30-40 games a year....and never really have arm problems?????

Steroids, duh!!

DewieCox

Wasn't it inevitable, though. That screw ball he throws just has to tear the shit out of an elbow...

He supposedly got babied all the way through his development starting pretty young, but I could see that workin against him.

He's got some nasty stuff, but there's only a few pitchers that have come back from that and stayed great pitchers.

pjhawks

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

So??
Lets discuss.....

Why is it back in the 50's 60's 70's pitchers could throw 250-300 innings a year......120-140 pitches a game......throw 10-15 complete games a year......start 30-40 games a year....and never really have arm problems?????

because back in the 50-70s there weren't pitch counts at every level. even my 9 year old nephew has fn pitch counts in little league. it's ridiculous. it's has to be the only thing in America where the norm is less practice means you will get better and stronger. makes no sense. i agree with Nolan Ryan. These guys should be throwing more not less. arm and shoulder motion (like Prior and Strasburg) has way more to do with injuries than over-use. just another example of the wussification of america.

The Fixer

DewieCox wrote:

Wasn't it inevitable, though. That screw ball he throws just has to tear the shit out of an elbow...

He supposedly got babied all the way through his development starting pretty young, but I could see that workin against him.

He's got some nasty stuff, but there's only a few pitchers that have come back from that and stayed great pitchers.

screwball? strasburg doesn't throw anything close to a screwball. actually it's virtually impossible for a RH pitcher to throw a screwball

DewieCox

The Fixer wrote:

screwball? strasburg doesn't throw anything close to a screwball. actually it's virtually impossible for a RH pitcher to throw a screwball

According to whatever show I was watching on ESPN he throws a pitch with the same throwing motion as a screwball to left handed batters. They used "screwball type movement" to describe it.

Why can't a righty throw a screw ball?

Cliffy6745

On the flip side

See:
Josh Johnson
Chris Carpenter
AJ Burnett
Francisco Liriano

Edit:
Tim Hudson


Forgetting anyone?

lukin2006

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

So??
Lets discuss.....

Why is it back in the 50's 60's 70's pitchers could throw 250-300 innings a year......120-140 pitches a game......throw 10-15 complete games a year......start 30-40 games a year....and never really have arm problems?????

I'd say even the 80's, Jack Morris of the Tigers, he was a work horse for them in the 80's, rarely ever hurt.

The Fixer

DewieCox wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

screwball? strasburg doesn't throw anything close to a screwball. actually it's virtually impossible for a RH pitcher to throw a screwball

According to whatever show I was watching on ESPN he throws a pitch with the same throwing motion as a screwball to left handed batters. They used "screwball type movement" to describe it.

Why can't a righty throw a screw ball?

they must have been talking about his changeup, which fades to the RH side of the plate vs lefties

I'm not really sure why lefties can throw scewballs and righties can't. a screwball has fade action to the pitchers arm side of the plate. the only way for a RH to get that kind of action is to throw a changeup. It's natural for a RH pitcher's 2 seam fastball to move back to the pitchers arm side of the plate (a RH pitchers ball will fade to the right side of the plate), but for whatever reason RH pitchers' can't throw breaking pitches to this side of the plate.

The Juggler

that franchise cannot catch a break...in dc or montreal.

markymark550

Cliffy6745 wrote:

On the flip side

See:
Josh Johnson
Chris Carpenter
AJ Burnett
Francisco Liriano

Edit:
Tim Hudson


Forgetting anyone?

there are quite a few that had the surgery and came back to pitch in the big leagues....add John Smoltz, Jason Isringhausen, Kerry Wood, and Brian Wilson to the list and I think we've listed the guys who have had the most success after the surgery

81

pjhawks wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

So??
Lets discuss.....

Why is it back in the 50's 60's 70's pitchers could throw 250-300 innings a year......120-140 pitches a game......throw 10-15 complete games a year......start 30-40 games a year....and never really have arm problems?????

because back in the 50-70s there weren't pitch counts at every level. even my 9 year old nephew has fn pitch counts in little league. it's ridiculous. it's has to be the only thing in America where the norm is less practice means you will get better and stronger. makes no sense. i agree with Nolan Ryan. These guys should be throwing more not less. arm and shoulder motion (like Prior and Strasburg) has way more to do with injuries than over-use. just another example of the muffification of america.

fixed

81

NoHelmetHardHead wrote:

Mark Prior anyone?

he had shoulder problems. if you listen to the so called experts, they shoulder issues are way more trouble some than elbow issues.

markymark550

The Fixer wrote:

they must have been talking about his changeup, which fades to the RH side of the plate vs lefties

I'm not really sure why lefties can throw scewballs and righties can't. a screwball has fade action to the pitchers arm side of the plate. the only way for a RH to get that kind of action is to throw a changeup. It's natural for a RH pitcher's 2 seam fastball to move back to the pitchers arm side of the plate (a RH pitchers ball will fade to the right side of the plate), but for whatever reason RH pitchers' can't throw breaking pitches to this side of the plate.

I don't think it's that righties can't throw a screwball, I think that the majority of hitters being right-handed takes away the need for a right-handed pitcher to throw a screwball.

gregkitefan

Does Strasburg throw the split fingered fastball?
I know prior to Bruce Sutter in the late 70's hardly anyone threw that pitch.
Now it seems everyone threws the splitter.

sk8nshoot1

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

So??
Lets discuss.....

Why is it back in the 50's 60's 70's pitchers could throw 250-300 innings a year......120-140 pitches a game......throw 10-15 complete games a year......start 30-40 games a year....and never really have arm problems?????

Hmmm ask Sandy Koufax about arm problems... I think there were a lot more arm problems and many blew out their arms before they even the majors so we never heard of them... (remember there was a lot less reporting back then too)

Cliffy6745

sk8nshoot1 wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

So??
Lets discuss.....

Why is it back in the 50's 60's 70's pitchers could throw 250-300 innings a year......120-140 pitches a game......throw 10-15 complete games a year......start 30-40 games a year....and never really have arm problems?????

Hmmm ask Sandy Koufax about arm problems... I think there were a lot more arm problems and many blew out their arms before they even the majors so we never heard of them... (remember there was a lot less reporting back then too)

This is what I was going to say. I think there were just as many arm problems but guys just fell out of the league when it happened. You can't really say problems were not there when no one knew there was a problem.

I think guys like CC and Halladay could go 250 a season if they had to now but it is a different game.

sk8nshoot1

Anyone recall Brien Taylor, a yankee prospect/bonus baby from the early 90's. Was supposed to be the next Dwight Goodin (then it was an ok thing). Hurt his shoulder breaking up a fight his brother was involved in at a bar and never pitched in the majors...

I think I heard a story of Luis Tiant pitching like 15 innings and 210 pitches in a game for the Red Sox? Anyone else hear that. I'm sure there were much longer/greater efforts but that may have been the most recent long outing...

81

Cliffy6745 wrote:

sk8nshoot1 wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

So??
Lets discuss.....

Why is it back in the 50's 60's 70's pitchers could throw 250-300 innings a year......120-140 pitches a game......throw 10-15 complete games a year......start 30-40 games a year....and never really have arm problems?????

Hmmm ask Sandy Koufax about arm problems... I think there were a lot more arm problems and many blew out their arms before they even the majors so we never heard of them... (remember there was a lot less reporting back then too)

This is what I was going to say. I think there were just as many arm problems but guys just fell out of the league when it happened. You can't really say problems were not there when no one knew there was a problem.

I think guys like CC and Halladay could go 250 a season if they had to now but it is a different game.

Halladay just has such a smooth motion.

Jearlpam0925

The problem is DC. Those fuckers made this happen all because they wanted to make a little bit more money today as opposed to a couple years from now. It's the same reason Bryce Harper was taking BP at Nats Park - to keep their buzz going. If they're so scared of losing customers then they need to get the hell out of town. Winning cures everything, and they should just accept sitting in the doldrums for a few more years until Strasburg and Harper are ready. That organization was too quick to make money off of him.

With that aside, it was inevitable for Strasburg to get injured because of the way he essentially flings the ball. All the momentum comes out of his elbow instead of his legs to the shoulder down to the hand. You can't expect to rely on a guy like that for 200 innings with the way he throws. If he wants to get better, then he's going to have to forget being "the guy who throws 102 mph" and settle on the high 90's, which isn't a bad thing, with a better arm slot and delivery.

mca47

NoHelmetHardHead wrote:

Mark Prior anyone?

I jokingly said that when he first came to the bigs. "Oh, Strasburg's arm motion is much like Mark Prior's, except without the horrible pitching coach..."


Nobody commented...


Exactly!

mca47

The Fixer wrote:

screwball? strasburg doesn't throw anything close to a screwball. actually it's virtually impossible for a RH pitcher to throw a screwball

A heavy change (esp circle change) and even a inside sinker can have similar effects.


Anyways, Mr. Strasburg's days of hitting 100 are long gone. I know a couple have done Tommy John and maintained speed, but this guy is in trouble!

The Fixer

markymark550 wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

they must have been talking about his changeup, which fades to the RH side of the plate vs lefties

I'm not really sure why lefties can throw scewballs and righties can't. a screwball has fade action to the pitchers arm side of the plate. the only way for a RH to get that kind of action is to throw a changeup. It's natural for a RH pitcher's 2 seam fastball to move back to the pitchers arm side of the plate (a RH pitchers ball will fade to the right side of the plate), but for whatever reason RH pitchers' can't throw breaking pitches to this side of the plate.[\quote]
I don't think it's that righties can't throw a screwball, I think that the majority of hitters being right-handed takes away the need for a right-handed pitcher to throw a screwball.

good point. RH's can't throw a screwball though. think about it. what RH pitcher has ever thrown a screwball? there aren't any