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The Power of God question

Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
edited August 2010 in A Moving Train
As many of you have noticed, I am agnostic. But that's not what this question is. I've been thinking lately about what those who believe in him (and those who don't if you have constructive insight) believe is his power. For example:

-does he control all events on earth?
-is he just some force that created life but has no influence on the day to day operations?

I've heard many people use the term "God's plan". That to me means those people believe god controls all life's events. Does this not disturb you, that you don't have free will? Or is there something to this that I'm missing?

I will clarify one more time: this is not a "does god exist?" thread. Leave that to God Christ The Bible page 177. I'm merely looking for what most people (believers and non alike) think is his power over us.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
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  • BhagavadGitaBhagavadGita Posts: 1,748
    The word "his" is exactly the idea that inspires an answer to this post.

    The force of "God" is not a sentient being... so some build ideas of what it could be by possibly making it sentient.

    We build in our minds, tiny constructs or towers of ideas that we see as permanent, but actually they don't exist at all.

    The "thing" we call "God" is not the tower we created by our egos, it is the nothingness that is left after those constructs are torn down by us.

    ..hope that makes some sense, because it does not to me right now but i'm too tired to retype something.
  • vomikus39vomikus39 Posts: 250
    Yeah, free will and God's plan. Yes, God works in mysterious ways. Hmmm, thousands being killed in the Haiti earthquake is God's plan. I don't buy it. You should watch "Religulous" by Bill Maher. Most die hard christians don't have the answers. I believe EVERYTHING happens by COINCIDENCE and CHANCE. From the Big Bang to car accidents to everything. I would like to believe that there is a better place for all of us after this, but logic and common sense won't allow me too. For me "God" is the power inside all of us. The instinct of what is right and what is wrong. Choosing to live as morally as we can is what God is to me. I believe that it is a feeling inside all of us, not a man in the sky. It's our instinct and reasoning. It's our ability to choose what's right. Probably sounds crazy, but that's what God is to me.

    The Roman Emperor Constantine formed the current day bible. I don't need to read it in order to live a moral life, I have free will lol, given to me by God.... :)
    Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed

    It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon

    MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
  • vomikus39vomikus39 Posts: 250
    Paul David wrote:
    As many of you have noticed, I am agnostic. But that's not what this question is. I've been thinking lately about what those who believe in him (and those who don't if you have constructive insight) believe is his power. For example:

    -does he control all events on earth?
    -is he just some force that created life but has no influence on the day to day operations?

    I've heard many people use the term "God's plan". That to me means those people believe god controls all life's events. Does this not disturb you, that you don't have free will? Or is there something to this that I'm missing?

    I will clarify one more time: this is not a "does god exist?" thread. Leave that to God Christ The Bible page 177. I'm merely looking for what most people (believers and non alike) think is his power over us.

    I believe we are ALL agnostics, no one knows for sure.
    Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed

    It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon

    MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    tell that to the diehards! :lol:
    vomikus39 wrote:

    I believe we are ALL agnostics, no one knows for sure.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • vomikus39vomikus39 Posts: 250
    LOL, thats why you should watch "Religulous" if you haven't yet. The responses from the die-hards are simply comical. If your faith in whoever allows you to lead a morally good life, then I am all for it. However, how many millions have died in the name of all religions? Like most things of beauty, put in the hands of human beings, and it gets all fucked up.
    Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed

    It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon

    MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    I wouldn't call it comical, really, as was stated no one really knows, not the religious, not the non-religious, so to the religious, our responses are equally comical (and/or sad) to them. So all things being equal, let's just say you don't believe in god in the fundamental sense. ;)
    vomikus39 wrote:
    LOL, thats why you should watch "Religulous" if you haven't yet. The responses from the die-hards are simply comical. If your faith in whoever allows you to lead a morally good life, then I am all for it. However, how many millions have died in the name of all religions? Like most things of beauty, put in the hands of human beings, and it gets all fucked up.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • vomikus39vomikus39 Posts: 250
    Paul David wrote:
    I wouldn't call it comical, really, as was stated no one really knows, not the religious, not the non-religious, so to the religious, our responses are equally comical (and/or sad) to them. So all things being equal, let's just say you don't believe in god in the fundamental sense. ;)
    vomikus39 wrote:
    LOL, thats why you should watch "Religulous" if you haven't yet. The responses from the die-hards are simply comical. If your faith in whoever allows you to lead a morally good life, then I am all for it. However, how many millions have died in the name of all religions? Like most things of beauty, put in the hands of human beings, and it gets all fucked up.

    Nah, it's comical
    Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed

    It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon

    MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
  • StraitlineStraitline Posts: 77
    vomikus39 wrote:
    Yeah, free will and God's plan. Yes, God works in mysterious ways. Hmmm, thousands being killed in the Haiti earthquake is God's plan. I don't buy it. You should watch "Religulous" by Bill Maher. Most die hard christians don't have the answers. I believe EVERYTHING happens by COINCIDENCE and CHANCE. From the Big Bang to car accidents to everything. I would like to believe that there is a better place for all of us after this, but logic and common sense won't allow me too. For me "God" is the power inside all of us. The instinct of what is right and what is wrong. Choosing to live as morally as we can is what God is to me. I believe that it is a feeling inside all of us, not a man in the sky. It's our instinct and reasoning. It's our ability to choose what's right. Probably sounds crazy, but that's what God is to me.

    Couldn't agree more!! :clap:
    M.Y.T.H. is belief in the game controls that keeps us in a box of fear.

    "If you love someone set them free ... if someone loves you don´t fuck up" - EV
  • arqarq Posts: 8,049
    I like the idea of having a god, i like to have a scape goat, someone to blame for the horrors of the world, blaming our self is kind of boring, is better to have an almighty god who controls everything, but make the people who believes in him (and those who don't) fix all his crap, and makes them think that there's plan... yes the plan is to make the less fortune suffer and to make very wealthy a few of the people who supposedly speak on his behalf, THAT'S what i call a plan!
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    No, it is not by chance, this I know from my miracle. No way this life is all by chance and yes we have free will yet it is all fixed in a plan, this is confusing for human brains, beyond our limits at the moment. We see things in this time, in this space.
    There is a divine hand or some force to explain what happened to me and to others every day.
    The Power of God is love. It is where you will find your answers. It is all that matters.
    It is unconditional love. Love without judgement. Love without fear.
    Love without personal human gratification, something few if any of us understand.
    If you open yourself to the possibilities you will see and feel it.

    hey not making light but my heart is heavy today and light helps, this song always helps me
    if anyone else feels like beaten down crap today I hope this helps :)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPPlGFh6 ... ure=search

    here on Earth we have heaven and hell
    it hurts no one to believe least of all ones self
    believe in the Power of Love
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    pandora wrote:
    No, it is not by chance, this I know from my miracle. No way this life is all by chance and yes we have free will yet it is all fixed in a plan, this is confusing for human brains, beyond our limits at the moment. We see things in this time, in this space.
    There is a divine hand or some force to explain what happened to me and to others every day.
    The Power of God is love. It is where you will find your answers. It is all that matters.
    It is unconditional love. Love without judgement. Love without fear.
    Love without personal human gratification, something few if any of us understand.
    If you open yourself to the possibilities you will see and feel it.

    hey not making light but my heart is heavy today and light helps, this song always helps me
    if anyone else feels like beaten down crap today I hope this helps :)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPPlGFh6 ... ure=search

    here on Earth we have heaven and hell
    it hurts no one to believe least of all ones self
    believe in the Power of Love
    ...
    That works for you... but, it doesn't necessarily work for me. You faith is as personal as your life, emotions and opinions based upon your experiences. I'm not knocking faith, hope and belief... I believe them to be good character traits.
    My belief is... I don't 'know', I 'believe'... and belief is not knowledge. I belive that there is some greater source out there that we cannot understand, let alone explain.
    I believe that all religions are created by Man, based upon Man's knowledge of Nature as it was 5,000 or so years ago. They created gods to explain the movement of the Sun and the stars, the physiology of humans and the explanation of life and death. Man created God in his image... and attached human traits and characteristics to God. And the first of the monotheistic religions, Judaism, placed the Jewish tribe at the center of God's eye. There is a reason why the Bible states the Jews as the 'Chosen People'... because the text was written by Jews.
    It's not that I don't believe in God... I don't have faith in the Church and the religions they have created. I am not allowing any religion to come between me and the God I believe in. I don't need a church to sit in... I have the ocean and the mountains... God's cathedrals... to speak to Him.
    That's my take on the matter... I don't expect anyone to believe me. And I am not trying to dissuade anyone of their beliefs. I am just letting everyone decide which path they wish to take... and choose to follow my path, alone.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Cosmo wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    No, it is not by chance, this I know from my miracle. No way this life is all by chance and yes we have free will yet it is all fixed in a plan, this is confusing for human brains, beyond our limits at the moment. We see things in this time, in this space.
    There is a divine hand or some force to explain what happened to me and to others every day.
    The Power of God is love. It is where you will find your answers. It is all that matters.
    It is unconditional love. Love without judgement. Love without fear.
    Love without personal human gratification, something few if any of us understand.
    If you open yourself to the possibilities you will see and feel it.

    hey not making light but my heart is heavy today and light helps, this song always helps me
    if anyone else feels like beaten down crap today I hope this helps :)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPPlGFh6 ... ure=search

    here on Earth we have heaven and hell
    it hurts no one to believe least of all ones self
    believe in the Power of Love
    ...
    That works for you... but, it doesn't necessarily work for me. You faith is as personal as your life, emotions and opinions based upon your experiences. I'm not knocking faith, hope and belief... I believe them to be good character traits.
    My belief is... I don't 'know', I 'believe'... and belief is not knowledge. I belive that there is some greater source out there that we cannot understand, let alone explain.
    I believe that all religions are created by Man, based upon Man's knowledge of Nature as it was 5,000 or so years ago. They created gods to explain the movement of the Sun and the stars, the physiology of humans and the explanation of life and death. Man created God in his image... and attached human traits and characteristics to God. And the first of the monotheistic religions, Judaism, placed the Jewish tribe at the center of God's eye. There is a reason why the Bible states the Jews as the 'Chosen People'... because the text was written by Jews.
    It's not that I don't believe in God... I don't have faith in the Church and the religions they have created. I am not allowing any religion to come between me and the God I believe in. I don't need a church to sit in... I have the ocean and the mountains... God's cathedrals... to speak to Him.
    That's my take on the matter... I don't expect anyone to believe me. And I am not trying to dissuade anyone of their beliefs. I am just letting everyone decide which path they wish to take... and choose to follow my path, alone.
    I don't follow a religion either
  • arqarq Posts: 8,049
    pandora wrote:
    I don't follow a religion either

    You follow your heart/instinct? that's the best way to live a life :) IMHO
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    arq wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I don't follow a religion either

    You follow your heart/instinct? that's the best way to live a life :) IMHO
    ...
    That's my take, too.
    I don't believe things such as morality, charity, kindness, caring, forgiveness or acceptance are founded in Religion. I believe it comes from our humanity. I don't believe we are born into sin and are evil by nature.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    I was afraid this was going to turn into a religion debate again. That's not the purpose of this particular thread.

    Those of you that believe in God: what power, if any, does he have over our lives?
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • arqarq Posts: 8,049
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...evil by nature.

    Well we can argue about it ;):lol:
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    Paul David wrote:
    I was afraid this was going to turn into a religion debate again. That's not the purpose of this particular thread.

    Those of you that believe in God: what power, if any, does he have over our lives?

    hopefully i am answering this questions correctly. in my view, God is that which everything came from. therefore, God has all the power over everything. and i know your next question is going to be then about freewill and i will tell you know that there is no such thing as freewill.
  • eyedclaareyedclaar Posts: 6,980
    fife wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    I was afraid this was going to turn into a religion debate again. That's not the purpose of this particular thread.

    Those of you that believe in God: what power, if any, does he have over our lives?

    hopefully i am answering this questions correctly. in my view, God is that which everything came from. therefore, God has all the power over everything. and i know your next question is going to be then about freewill and i will tell you know that there is no such thing as freewill.

    Yeah, but could God create a taco so big that even he couldn't eat it? Think about it...
    Idaho's Premier Outdoor Writer

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  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    eyedclaar wrote:
    fife wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    I was afraid this was going to turn into a religion debate again. That's not the purpose of this particular thread.

    Those of you that believe in God: what power, if any, does he have over our lives?

    hopefully i am answering this questions correctly. in my view, God is that which everything came from. therefore, God has all the power over everything. and i know your next question is going to be then about freewill and i will tell you know that there is no such thing as freewill.

    Yeah, but could God create a taco so big that even he couldn't eat it? Think about it...

    oh a love that questions wrote a paper on in university but the question was can god build a rock he could not move and the answer is no. the reason is that GOD can't do the impossible.
  • ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    GOds power is the beleif many have in him.
    not that I do
    But I reckon thats the power
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Paul David wrote:
    I was afraid this was going to turn into a religion debate again. That's not the purpose of this particular thread.

    Those of you that believe in God: what power, if any, does he have over our lives?
    ...
    I'll stay on track...
    My guess... not much power over us... regarding the decisions we make.
    God (Nature) provides us with an environment that can sustain our lives... at this point in the history of our Earth. We have to decide what we are going to do with our lives during our brief stay here and quit blaming God for our fuck ups. How about we take responsibility for our poor decisions and give ourselves credit when credit is due? God does not care about home runs, touchdowns or Grammys. God has better things to do... such as running the Universe(s)... than to bother with the lives of us apes on this tiny blue speck... which isn't gong to be here forever.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    fife wrote:
    oh a love that questions wrote a paper on in university but the question was can god build a rock he could not move and the answer is no. the reason is that GOD can't do the impossible.
    ...
    But... you don't know that.. as a fact... right? You may believe it to be true... but, that does not make it true.
    The true answer is... 'I don't know'.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    Cosmo wrote:
    fife wrote:
    oh a love that questions wrote a paper on in university but the question was can god build a rock he could not move and the answer is no. the reason is that GOD can't do the impossible.
    ...
    But... you don't know that.. as a fact... right? You may believe it to be true... but, that does not make it true.
    The true answer is... 'I don't know'.

    Actually yes i can say that for certain. the term impossible means (unless we are deciding that words to not mean anything which can lead us to a bigger issue) not capable of occurring or being accomplished.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    Cosmo wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    I was afraid this was going to turn into a religion debate again. That's not the purpose of this particular thread.

    Those of you that believe in God: what power, if any, does he have over our lives?
    ...
    I'll stay on track...
    My guess... not much power over us... regarding the decisions we make.
    God (Nature) provides us with an environment that can sustain our lives... at this point in the history of our Earth. We have to decide what we are going to do with our lives during our brief stay here and quit blaming God for our fuck ups. How about we take responsibility for our poor decisions and give ourselves credit when credit is due? God does not care about home runs, touchdowns or Grammys. God has better things to do... such as running the Universe(s)... than to bother with the lives of us apes on this tiny blue speck... which isn't gong to be here forever.

    quick question. why do you believe that we are free to decide?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    fife wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    fife wrote:
    oh a love that questions wrote a paper on in university but the question was can god build a rock he could not move and the answer is no. the reason is that GOD can't do the impossible.
    ...
    But... you don't know that.. as a fact... right? You may believe it to be true... but, that does not make it true.
    The true answer is... 'I don't know'.

    Actually yes i can say that for certain. the term impossible means (unless we are deciding that words to not mean anything which can lead us to a bigger issue) not capable of occurring or being accomplished.
    ...
    So, you're saying God has limits to what He can and can't do?
    Your belief is that He is incapable of doing some things, correct?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    fife wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I'll stay on track...
    My guess... not much power over us... regarding the decisions we make.
    God (Nature) provides us with an environment that can sustain our lives... at this point in the history of our Earth. We have to decide what we are going to do with our lives during our brief stay here and quit blaming God for our fuck ups. How about we take responsibility for our poor decisions and give ourselves credit when credit is due? God does not care about home runs, touchdowns or Grammys. God has better things to do... such as running the Universe(s)... than to bother with the lives of us apes on this tiny blue speck... which isn't gong to be here forever.

    quick question. why do you believe that we are free to decide?
    ...
    Because we possess the mechanisms TO decide. We can make assessments of conditions and situations and decide to pick A or B and should own up to the consequences of our decisions.
    Holding God responsible for your decisions and action? I don't believe so.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • markin ballmarkin ball Posts: 1,075
    fife wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    I was afraid this was going to turn into a religion debate again. That's not the purpose of this particular thread.

    Those of you that believe in God: what power, if any, does he have over our lives?

    hopefully i am answering this questions correctly. in my view, God is that which everything came from. therefore, God has all the power over everything. and i know your next question is going to be then about freewill and i will tell you know that there is no such thing as freewill.

    If there is no freewill, and God has power over all, it seems God would have no reason to create anything, because he already knows how it will all play out.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."

    "With our thoughts we make the world"
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    [
    ...
    But... you don't know that.. as a fact... right? You may believe it to be true... but, that does not make it true.
    The true answer is... 'I don't know'.[/quote]

    Actually yes i can say that for certain. the term impossible means (unless we are deciding that words to not mean anything which can lead us to a bigger issue) not capable of occurring or being accomplished.[/quote]
    ...
    So, you're saying God has limits to what He can and can't do?
    Your belief is that He is incapable of doing some things, correct?[/quote]

    First i don't like the term "he". yes there are limits to what god can and can't do. those limits is that god can't do the impossible.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    Cosmo wrote:
    fife wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I'll stay on track...
    My guess... not much power over us... regarding the decisions we make.
    God (Nature) provides us with an environment that can sustain our lives... at this point in the history of our Earth. We have to decide what we are going to do with our lives during our brief stay here and quit blaming God for our fuck ups. How about we take responsibility for our poor decisions and give ourselves credit when credit is due? God does not care about home runs, touchdowns or Grammys. God has better things to do... such as running the Universe(s)... than to bother with the lives of us apes on this tiny blue speck... which isn't gong to be here forever.

    quick question. why do you believe that we are free to decide?
    ...
    Because we possess the mechanisms TO decide. We can make assessments of conditions and situations and decide to pick A or B and should own up to the consequences of our decisions.
    Holding God responsible for your decisions and action? I don't believe so.

    first off i am not saying that we should hold god responsible for anything. Do you believe in cause and effect? if you say yes than you must then agree that we are not free, if you say no then you must say that there is no relation to what you decide to do and what you done.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    fife wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    So, you're saying God has limits to what He can and can't do?
    Your belief is that He is incapable of doing some things, correct?

    First i don't like the term "he". yes there are limits to what god can and can't do. those limits is that god can't do the impossible.
    ...
    But, the greatest flaw in your reasoning is... YOU are the one assuming that God cannot do the impossible... specifically, create something that God, Himself, cannot move. That is an assumption on your part, not a fact.
    That being said... you don't know the limits of what God can and cannot do because you don't know whether He can create something He cannot move... you assume that... but, the reality is... you don't KNOW that.
    Therefore, your TRUE ansewer is... "I don't know" because the fact is... you don't know.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
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