Expressing condolences question

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  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    pandora wrote:
    I may be a bit confused but is the OP close to the victim? If not I would think that would be overstepping. In fact if it were me, and my mother shared personal info I might not have, I would be upset. The less people knowing and confronting would be better. Like I said maybe I am confused as to how close the relationships are. If it were my daughter I would not have told a soul, I would let her do the telling.
    It was my understanding that Chiqui used to work with the daughter. I agree, it should be up to the daughter to disclose the information but I'm assuming that she is aware that her mother has shared it. I don't see expressing concern as confronting her.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    whoprincess wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I may be a bit confused but is the OP close to the victim? If not I would think that would be overstepping. In fact if it were me, and my mother shared personal info I might not have, I would be upset. The less people knowing and confronting would be better. Like I said maybe I am confused as to how close the relationships are. If it were my daughter I would not have told a soul, I would let her do the telling.
    It was my understanding that Chiqui used to work with the daughter. I agree, it should be up to the daughter to disclose the information but I'm assuming that she is aware that her mother has shared it. I don't see expressing concern as confronting her.
    I think you knew what I meant, wrong choice of word. With you having been a counselor you know what this young women is going through. Expressing concern is very appropriate for those very close to the victim. This is a private situation for only those closest and dearest family and friends. Her healing will come from within as you know anyways.
  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    pandora wrote:
    whoprincess wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I may be a bit confused but is the OP close to the victim? If not I would think that would be overstepping. In fact if it were me, and my mother shared personal info I might not have, I would be upset. The less people knowing and confronting would be better. Like I said maybe I am confused as to how close the relationships are. If it were my daughter I would not have told a soul, I would let her do the telling.
    It was my understanding that Chiqui used to work with the daughter. I agree, it should be up to the daughter to disclose the information but I'm assuming that she is aware that her mother has shared it. I don't see expressing concern as confronting her.
    I think you knew what I meant, wrong choice of word. With you having been a counselor you know what this young women is going through. Expressing concern is very appropriate for those very close to the victim. This is a private situation for only those closest and dearest family and friends. Her healing will come from within as you know anyways.
    That was a bit harsh of me, I apologize.
    Her healing may come from within or she may ultimately seek the help of a counselor. Without knowing her I can't say. I agree with you that the decision to share what happened to her needs to be her choice. I was assuming she knew her mother had told a friend.

    Even though most victims don't tell others (sometimes no one at all!), I have very mixed feelings about encouraging someone to be completely private. It isn't something you should share with everybody you meet but not telling others adds to the whole sense of shame that's associated with rape. I would want to do whatever I could to let her know she has nothing to be ashamed of. She survived! She made the right choices and did the right things.

    Because it's something so deeply personal and violating, there may be aspects that she won't be comfortable sharing with her mother, no matter how close they may be. It's important that she knows that there are other caring people who will listen and be nonjudgmental.

    She may not even realize how others are supporting her. I never had a victim actually thank me for being there, even when I stayed at the hospital for hours. Most victims were too dazed to realize what I'd done. That didn't matter because I knew that by being there I had helped her get through the ordeal of the exam, the police questioning, etc. What happened to her after that was beyond my control and I was well aware that lots of sad things happen to rape victims. That's why any gesture on Chiqui's part is letting this young woman know that the world isn't just made up of bad people who want to hurt her.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    whoprincess wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    whoprincess wrote:
    It was my understanding that Chiqui used to work with the daughter. I agree, it should be up to the daughter to disclose the information but I'm assuming that she is aware that her mother has shared it. I don't see expressing concern as confronting her.
    I think you knew what I meant, wrong choice of word. With you having been a counselor you know what this young women is going through. Expressing concern is very appropriate for those very close to the victim. This is a private situation for only those closest and dearest family and friends. Her healing will come from within as you know anyways.
    That was a bit harsh of me, I apologize.
    Her healing may come from within or she may ultimately seek the help of a counselor. Without knowing her I can't say. I agree with you that the decision to share what happened to her needs to be her choice. I was assuming she knew her mother had told a friend.

    Even though most victims don't tell others (sometimes no one at all!), I have very mixed feelings about encouraging someone to be completely private. It isn't something you should share with everybody you meet but not telling others adds to the whole sense of shame that's associated with rape. I would want to do whatever I could to let her know she has nothing to be ashamed of. She survived! She made the right choices and did the right things.

    Because it's something so deeply personal and violating, there may be aspects that she won't be comfortable sharing with her mother, no matter how close they may be. It's important that she knows that there are other caring people who will listen and be nonjudgmental.

    She may not even realize how others are supporting her. I never had a victim actually thank me for being there, even when I stayed at the hospital for hours. Most victims were too dazed to realize what I'd done. That didn't matter because I knew that by being there I had helped her get through the ordeal of the exam, the police questioning, etc. What happened to her after that was beyond my control and I was well aware that lots of sad things happen to rape victims. That's why any gesture on Chiqui's part is letting this young woman know that the world isn't just made up of bad people who want to hurt her.
    I know in her place I could turn to you, a counselor easier than I could some family or casual friends. I wouldn't want people knowing even if it meant them trying to help. There is nothing to be ashamed of, I think I would know this, but I would also feel vulnerable and damaged, too damaged for anyone other than those I was very intimate with. I personally would not want others apart of the situation. As you say we all react differently to trauma. Normally I am all for supporting others and being there in anyway possible, reaching out. I am still not sure about this though.
  • Ms. Haiku
    Ms. Haiku Washington DC Posts: 7,390
    The survivor told her mother. This is an indication that the survivor's strength not only comes from within, but also by knowing who to trust. The survivor is relying on her mother - makes sense. The mother, who is also going through her own personal grief, has relied on a friend. This makes sense as well. For the mother's friend to express any assistance directly to the survivor doesn't seem to fit this equation. If the survivor is ready to talk with the mother's friend it will happen.

    I agree with pandora. If my mother's friend out of the blue said to me, I'm really sorry about what happened. Just let me know if you need anything, I think I would feel violated again even though the sentiment is from the right place. How do you respond to that? The mother's friend would put the survivor in a position where she has to respond, and at this time she should be given room to breathe, and decide who in her opinion is ready to listen.

    I just want to point out that all of us in this thread seem to be coming from a place where we want to help, and our points are equally valid.
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • chiquimonkey
    chiquimonkey Posts: 9,337
    Thanks again for all the input everyone. I am very close to her mother, and have known this family for over 15 years, so it's sorta like quasifamily in a way? Just trying to balance being supportive and not being intrusive at the same time.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    chiquimonkey wrote:
    Thanks again for all the input everyone. I am very close to her mother, and have known this family for over 15 years, so it's sorta like quasifamily in a way? Just trying to balance being supportive and not being intrusive at the same time.
    Time really helps with that, more that passes the less intrusive.
    My daughter might be this young womens age at 24. I have very close lifetime girlfriends who have watched Savannah grow, were there when I carried her. I still can't picture them reaching our to her in this situation. But talk to your close friend, her Mama, she will guide you.

    I am so very sorry, I know this is hurting you too. There is a loss of faith in mankind when we are touched by violence.
    If only the rapist could feel the pain and damage that has been done and the repercussions in so many lives. Neanderthal, that is my best description for him, no light, no understanding, no feeling.
    It is incomprehensible to me that a man can even do this to a woman.
  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    I am very glad she was able to tell her mom. That says she has good family support. Many women don't tell their families.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • chiquimonkey
    chiquimonkey Posts: 9,337
    pandora wrote:
    Time really helps with that, more that passes the less intrusive.
    My daughter might be this young womens age at 24. I have very close lifetime girlfriends who have watched Savannah grow, were there when I carried her. I still can't picture them reaching our to her in this situation. But talk to your close friend, her Mama, she will guide you.

    I am so very sorry, I know this is hurting you too. There is a loss of faith in mankind when we are touched by violence.
    If only the rapist could feel the pain and damage that has been done and the repercussions in so many lives. Neanderthal, that is my best description for him, no light, no understanding, no feeling.
    It is incomprehensible to me that a man can even do this to a woman.

    Yup, she's 25, just a kid. I don't feel close enough to her to approach her personally, but I figure by supporting her mom and knowing that we're here for her, that should help some. I can't even imagine what they're going thru....thank god really. Just found out her daughter has to go on an anti-HIV treatment, just in case, since they haven't caught the guy yet. It's disgusting.

    This guy should be strung up. The mom's been joking all morning of ways to torture him, so I've been playing along. I'm good at coming up with some sick ideas :lol:

    And thanks, yeah it's been a blow for me, just feeling hurt for them. And just the thought of a man doing that....it's like you know it happens, but when it happens to someone you know, it adds a whole other dimension to it. I just keep trying to remind myself of the good men that are out there, and that are in my life.
    whoprincess wrote:
    I am very glad she was able to tell her mom. That says she has good family support. Many women don't tell their families.

    Yup I'm glad too. They are very close. It's sad many women can't feel like they can tell their moms.
  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    I got involved as a volunteer many years ago because a good friend of mine was raped. She was living several states away and it just tore me up that I couldn't be there for her. She never told her family, I think because her mom was unhappy because she'd moved so far away.

    I was really at a loss about how to be helpful but she told me later that she was so touched at how I filled her mailbox with notes and little gifts. We also had a lot of long late night phone calls. I did a lot of "I don't know what to say but I'm so upset and hurt for you." She told me that that was all she really needed to hear.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • chiquimonkey
    chiquimonkey Posts: 9,337
    whoprincess wrote:
    I got involved as a volunteer many years ago because a good friend of mine was raped. She was living several states away and it just tore me up that I couldn't be there for her. She never told her family, I think because her mom was unhappy because she'd moved so far away.

    I was really at a loss about how to be helpful but she told me later that she was so touched at how I filled her mailbox with notes and little gifts. We also had a lot of long late night phone calls. I did a lot of "I don't know what to say but I'm so upset and hurt for you." She told me that that was all she really needed to hear.
    You're good peeps :)
  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    chiquimonkey wrote:
    whoprincess wrote:
    I got involved as a volunteer many years ago because a good friend of mine was raped. She was living several states away and it just tore me up that I couldn't be there for her. She never told her family, I think because her mom was unhappy because she'd moved so far away.

    I was really at a loss about how to be helpful but she told me later that she was so touched at how I filled her mailbox with notes and little gifts. We also had a lot of long late night phone calls. I did a lot of "I don't know what to say but I'm so upset and hurt for you." She told me that that was all she really needed to hear.
    You're good peeps :)
    :oops:
    Thanks, but so are you, girl! :angel:
    Reaching out on this forum to ask others how you can help, that shows a lot of caring on your part. When this happened to my friend there was no internet or email. I had no idea who to ask how I could be helpful. Sometimes I think it's a little nuts the way we can all connect nowadays but there are so many good things that come from it too.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • chiquimonkey
    chiquimonkey Posts: 9,337
    whoprincess wrote:
    :oops:
    Thanks, but so are you, girl! :angel:
    Reaching out on this forum to ask others how you can help, that shows a lot of caring on your part. When this happened to my friend there was no internet or email. I had no idea who to ask how I could be helpful. Sometimes I think it's a little nuts the way we can all connect nowadays but there are so many good things that come from it too.
    Aw thanks :)

    Yeah this is nice to be able to bounce off ideas off of folks, I know there are some kindhearted people here so I figured I'd get some good ideas!

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