700 people a day are dying in Moscow

Blockhead

redrock wrote:

Personal responsibility goes beyond being selfish, exclusive and 'insular'. Personal responsibility is also being part of humanity and understanding how we are as a collective and making this collective work. You seem to think that besides you and your family, all are lazy bastards trying to live off of 'your' money. Nothing that is not in your immediate control seems to be your responsibility (ie the planet, etc.). Not the way I have taught my kid. BTW.. your kids will never have to pay for my kid's rights (note: in this context, right has nothing to do with rite).

I still think you're trolling.

I am just trying to figure out where you draw the line on these human rights. You seems to think that anything that kills alot of people, if there is a prevenative measure, then is should be a human right. Why not A/C, you clearly don't care about these Russian people, 700 a day. When is enough, enough.
And i have never said that personal responsibility is a selfish act. And i agree with your definition some what. But that all has to start from you being responsible for your actions, once you can accomplish your own responsibilities, then I think you can be responsible for other areas such as humanity. You seem to think that everybody in the US is hard working and have exhausted every avenue to succeed and have come down on bad luck. Your the one who brough up our kids. I suggest you keep children our of our converstaion.

polaris_x

HeidiJam wrote:

But that all has to start from you being responsible for your actions

but if you won't acknowledge your actions ... what good is this?

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

uhhh ... i have a plethora of articles and links but you could easily look those up yourself ... so, why don't you? ... why should i waste my time posting links that you are going to ignore anyways!?? ...

you are right tho - just because i've actually studied it doesn't necessarily make me an expert ... but i do have the fundamental knowledge of the science and can understand it's workings ... what do you know that makes you certain this is not caused by man? ... you don't need a degree in anything but you must at least be educated in something that will give you insight otherwise your just relying on others to form your opinion ...

as for your example ... at least you can have discussions with said engineers and refute and debate because there is a core understanding of the science ... what do you know about earth sciences, meteorology, climatology that allows you to know for certain?

THe point on this matter is there is no definitive proof (YET)that climate change is man made or natural. YET being the key word. I personally believe that its a bit of both but i am not going on anyones said until i know for sure. There were huge heat wave in 800 - 1300 followed by a small ice age. And there was no industrilization then. I could post severial secientific articles also that goin against it being man made. Thats why I am not taking sides. I didn't mean to down grade your education at all. I am sure you know well more than me. I just don't like that acusations of man made when we don't really know YET. But i generally agree that now we are causing harm, but i don't know if that necessarly coorilates with todays climate change.

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

But that all has to start from you being responsible for your actions

but if you won't acknowledge your actions ... what good is this?

how am i not acknowledge my actions?

Jason P

HeidiJam wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

uhhh ... i have a plethora of articles and links but you could easily look those up yourself ... so, why don't you? ... why should i waste my time posting links that you are going to ignore anyways!?? ...

you are right tho - just because i've actually studied it doesn't necessarily make me an expert ... but i do have the fundamental knowledge of the science and can understand it's workings ... what do you know that makes you certain this is not caused by man? ... you don't need a degree in anything but you must at least be educated in something that will give you insight otherwise your just relying on others to form your opinion ...

as for your example ... at least you can have discussions with said engineers and refute and debate because there is a core understanding of the science ... what do you know about earth sciences, meteorology, climatology that allows you to know for certain?

THe point on this matter is there is no definitive proof (YET)that climate change is man made or natural. YET being the key word. I personally believe that its a bit of both but i am not going on anyones said until i know for sure. There were huge heat wave in 800 - 1300 followed by a small ice age. And there was no industrilization then. I could post severial secientific articles also that goin against it being man made. Thats why I am not taking sides. I didn't mean to down grade your education at all. I am sure you know well more than me. I just don't like that acusations of man made when we don't really know YET. But i generally agree that now we are causing harm, but i don't know if that necessarly coorilates with todays climate change.

+1

The biggest problem with climate change is that certain groups use it as a fear-tactic in to push their agendas. It thus has become a polarizing issue.

redrock

HeidiJam wrote:

I am just trying to figure out where you draw the line on these human rights. You seems to think that anything that kills alot of people, if there is a prevenative measure, then is should be a human right. Why not A/C, you clearly don't care about these Russian people, 700 a day. When is enough, enough. .

Human rights... .you need to re-read posts on this thread and you need to understand what is actually meant by Human Rights. Also, if you understood the problem in Russia, it has nothing to do with A/C but with a poisonous smog, mainly caused by the wildfires (in turned caused by the heatwave). So stop trying to be such a smart ass.

This is what is killing so many people:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/08/ ... 34x315.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/08/ ... 34x420.jpg

Not some lack of electrical appliance.

polaris_x

HeidiJam wrote:

THe point on this matter is there is no definitive proof (YET)that climate change is man made or natural. YET being the key word. I personally believe that its a bit of both but i am not going on anyones said until i know for sure. There were huge heat wave in 800 - 1300 followed by a small ice age. And there was no industrilization then. I could post severial secientific articles also that goin against it being man made. Thats why I am not taking sides. I didn't mean to down grade your education at all. I am sure you know well more than me. I just don't like that acusations of man made when we don't really know YET. But i generally agree that now we are causing harm, but i don't know if that necessarly coorilates with todays climate change.

there has been scientific consensus on this subject for some time now ... i can guarantee you that you CAN NOT post any scientific article disputing anthropogenic climate change that is peer reviewed ... all the opposing views are funded by big oil companies or conservative think tanks working on behalf of big oil ... just look at the threads prfctlefts starts on this ... each time he posts a link - eventually, it is tied to some guy who got paid by exxon or something ... every single time ...

why do you think countries are meeting to discuss climate change if it wasn't real? ... do you think they would just drum up something just so they can meet every 6 months or so to negotiate a deal? ... the debate on whether it is man-made has long sailed now ... the question is whether we are going to do something about it ...

polaris_x

HeidiJam wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

But that all has to start from you being responsible for your actions

but if you won't acknowledge your actions ... what good is this?

how am i not acknowledge my actions?

well ... if you don't believe that climate change is caused by human activity - then you clearly are not accepting responsibility for your actions ...

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

+1

The biggest problem with climate change is that certain groups use it as a fear-tactic in to push their agendas. It thus has become a polarizing issue.

no ... the biggest problem is that many people would rather believe propaganda PR firms over climate scientists ... they would rather listen to the garbage funded by exxon than that of NGO's ... that's the biggest problem ...

haffajappa

Jason P wrote:

+1

The biggest problem with climate change is that certain groups use it as a fear-tactic in to push their agendas. It thus has become a polarizing issue.

I would say you could use it either way that both groups could use it as a fear tactic.
Support off shore drilling, because climate change is a lie!

I hear so many times. "oh climate change is a lie, so I can buy my big ass ford f150 and idle it for 3 hours"
Climate Change is an excuse. People choose whether to believe in a single facet of the world's environmental problems. As if dying seas and forests and brown smog isn't enough evidence for them to stop fucking up the planet.

Ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is bliss.

haffajappa

redrock wrote:

Personal responsibility goes beyond being selfish, exclusive and 'insular'. Personal responsibility is also being part of humanity and understanding how we are as a collective and making this collective work. You seem to think that besides you and your family, all are lazy bastards trying to live off of 'your' money. Nothing that is not in your immediate control seems to be your responsibility (ie the planet, etc.). Not the way I have taught my kid. BTW.. your kids will never have to pay for my kid's rights (note: in this context, right has nothing to do with rite).

I still think you're trolling.

I don't get it either.
They don't draw the line at police, police are a "rite" as public servants.
Well, I don't wanna pay to protect someone else's lazy kids, who could have just taken aikido classes to defend themselves. GOTTA BE PREPARED!

Jason P

polaris_x wrote:

well ... if you don't believe that climate change is caused by human activity - then you clearly are not accepting responsibility for your actions ...

Human activity is a cause, but it is not the only one, something easily ignored by those that use climate change as a tool to push their agendas.

Other cause include
* The sun and the amount of solar output
* Wobbles in the earths axis
* Volcanic and tectonic activity
* Sea level changes

Politically, climate change is about power change. Talking heads will argue with each other until they are blue in the face. The sad thing is that we should all be environmentally conscious and practice conservation, regardless of climate change debate.

Jason P

haffajappa wrote:

Jason P wrote:

+1

The biggest problem with climate change is that certain groups use it as a fear-tactic in to push their agendas. It thus has become a polarizing issue.

I would say you could use it either way that both groups could use it as a fear tactic.
Support off shore drilling, because climate change is a lie!

I hear so many times. "oh climate change is a lie, so I can buy my big ass ford f150 and idle it for 3 hours"
Climate Change is an excuse. People choose whether to believe in a single facet of the world's environmental problems. As if dying seas and forests and brown smog isn't enough evidence for them to stop fucking up the planet.

Ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is bliss.

Exactly. "Certain Groups" was not implying just liberals groups. What we have now is both sides in a retarded stand-off.

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

Human activity is a cause, but it is not the only one, something easily ignored by those that use climate change as a tool to push their agendas.

Other cause include
* The sun and the amount of solar output
* Wobbles in the earths axis
* Volcanic and tectonic activity
* Sea level changes

Politically, climate change is about power change. Talking heads will argue with each other until they are blue in the face. The sad thing is that we should all be environmentally conscious and practice conservation, regardless of climate change debate.

sorry ... but all your causes have been studied and they can at best make up a marginal influence ... greenhouse gases are the main and primary cause of climate change right now ... and sea level changes ARE the result of climate change so not sure where you pulled that from ...

i do agree with your second point ... it's a shame that an issue that will result in the suffering of many people and animals (mostly life that find it difficult to fend for themselves) has become yet another ping pong in this global farce ...

Ms. Haiku

The news reminds me of the book, When Smoke Ran Like Water, and the story behind it.

http://www.post-gazette.com/books/reviews/20030316smoke0316fnp3.asp

Shawshank

Being a layman in the field of meteorology, what was the previous record around this time in the year 1010, and what would have made it so damn hot back then?

Cosmo

HeidiJam wrote:

I hope this dosent come to the US. We would be due for a Air Conditioning / air respirators reform and declare it a human rite, since people (especially poor) are dying from it.

...
Okay... I'll bite...
So, let's say this DOES happen in the U.S.... you would be more concerned over money, than the lives of American citizens? You would rather have dead Americans, than having your taxes increased. What kind of American are you telling us you are? What kind of person are you describing yourself as?

LikeAnOcean

We can argue about climate change until we are blue in the face, but let's look at the optimistic side of things..

One day, the earth will be swallowed by our sun when it goes supernova and none of this will really matter. (We're also over due for a mass intinction causing asteroid.)

Preventing climate change is not about saving the planet. It's about saving us.. at least for a little while longer.

Blockhead

Cosmo wrote:

...
Okay... I'll bite...
So, let's say this DOES happen in the U.S.... you would be more concerned over money, than the lives of American citizens? You would rather have dead Americans, than having your taxes increased. What kind of American are you telling us you are? What kind of person are you describing yourself as?

So instead of worrying about a society that is giving away free A/c Units, you would be wondering what kind of american I am??? The entitilement that you guys think people should get is mind-blowing. Are people not capable of using thier brains and deciding what is a need for them to survive??? Since people are dying of skin cancer should we give away free sunblock. Since people are dying from alcohol should we ban that. Why do you think punishing people who are responsible is a good thing. You call me selfish, whatever... People are capable of making decisions, you do know that right??? I am not concerned about money, I am concerned about a society that thinks this line of thinking is acceptable.

FiveB247x

What entitlement are you referring too exactly? Cosmo just asked about your concern about your fellow citizens if a disaster type scenario occurred, which is what this is. You somehow twist it into handing out air conditioners and people's fending for themselves? You seem to be missing the point or projecting misguided things he isn't asking or commenting on.

HeidiJam wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
Okay... I'll bite...
So, let's say this DOES happen in the U.S.... you would be more concerned over money, than the lives of American citizens? You would rather have dead Americans, than having your taxes increased. What kind of American are you telling us you are? What kind of person are you describing yourself as?

So instead of worrying about a society that is giving away free A/c Units, you would be wondering what kind of american I am??? The entitilement that you guys think people should get is mind-blowing. Are people not capable of using thier brains and deciding what is a need for them to survive??? Since people are dying of skin cancer should we give away free sunblock. Since people are dying from alcohol should we ban that. Why do you think punishing people who are responsible is a good thing. You call me selfish, whatever... People are capable of making decisions, you do know that right??? I am not concerned about money, I am concerned about a society that thinks this line of thinking is acceptable.