700 people a day are dying in Moscow

unsung

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/08/09 ... ingers/Red

gimmesometruth27

they said it might be the hottest heat wave in over 1000 years....wow...i tried to copy and paste the text of the article but my browser window kept locking up...

polaris_x

as in the flooding in pakistan ... more fatal consequences of climate change ... and as per usual, it is predominantly the poor who suffer most ... :(

gimmesometruth27

polaris_x wrote:

as in the flooding in pakistan ... more fatal consequences of climate change ... and as per usual, it is predominantly the poor who suffer most ... :(

yet nobody will agree that climate change is happening. they would rather talk about al gore allegedly sexually harrassing a maseusse (sp??) than the real issues and the real science and the real data.

polaris_x

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

yet nobody will agree that climate change is happening. they would rather talk about al gore allegedly sexually harrassing a maseusse (sp??) than the real issues and the real science and the real data.

most people already agree ... it's just the fat cats don't want to do anything about it because they've made their millions exploiting the poor - why stop now!?? ... plus, all it takes is a well-crafted PR and propoganda campaign for many peeps to ignore the issue ...

haffajappa

polaris_x wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

yet nobody will agree that climate change is happening. they would rather talk about al gore allegedly sexually harrassing a maseusse (sp??) than the real issues and the real science and the real data.

most people already agree ... it's just the fat cats don't want to do anything about it because they've made their millions exploiting the poor - why stop now!?? ... plus, all it takes is a well-crafted PR and propoganda campaign for many peeps to ignore the issue ...

The less you believe in climate change, the less responsible you have to be towards the planet.
Or so it would seem.

Jason P

Is this event in Russia directly caused by climate change? Is it a 100 year event? Who knows . . .

But it is sad to see this. They are suffering from a combination of high temperatures, forest fires, horrible air quality and antiquated buildings still linked to the soviet era building codes (or lack thereof).

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

Is this event in Russia directly caused by climate change? Is it a 100 year event? Who knows . . .

But it is sad to see this. They are suffering from a combination of high temperatures, forest fires, horrible air quality and antiquated buildings still linked to the soviet era building codes (or lack thereof).

dude ... there are devastating floods in pakistan, massive mudslides in china ... drought and heat in russia ... the immediate consequence of increased global temperatures are more extreme weather ... this has been the foundation of global climate change for over a decade ... it will only get worse ...

everywhere you look people are saying ... it's the warmest this, coldest that, wettest season, etc ...

Blockhead

I hope this dosent come to the US. We would be due for a Air Conditioning / air respirators reform and declare it a human rite, since people (especially poor) are dying from it.

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Is this event in Russia directly caused by climate change? Is it a 100 year event? Who knows . . .

But it is sad to see this. They are suffering from a combination of high temperatures, forest fires, horrible air quality and antiquated buildings still linked to the soviet era building codes (or lack thereof).

dude ... there are devastating floods in pakistan, massive mudslides in china ... drought and heat in russia ... the immediate consequence of increased global temperatures are more extreme weather ... this has been the foundation of global climate change for over a decade ... it will only get worse ...

everywhere you look people are saying ... it's the warmest this, coldest that, wettest season, etc ...

All of what your explaining has happend in before and will happen again, and continues to happen. Thats just the way the earth works, it goes in cycles. But let me guess... We humans can prevent it all right?

gimmesometruth27

HeidiJam wrote:

I hope this dosent come to the US. We would be due for a Air Conditioning / air respirators reform and declare it a human rite, since people (especially poor) are dying from it.

poor ARE dying from this heat in the US every day. two died here in st. louis yesterday. the poor and the homeless do not have air conditioning, remember?

Blockhead

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

I hope this dosent come to the US. We would be due for a Air Conditioning / air respirators reform and declare it a human rite, since people (especially poor) are dying from it.

poor ARE dying from this heat in the US every day. two died here in st. louis yesterday. the poor and the homeless do not have air conditioning, remember?

My dad didn't have A/C growing up whats your point. And yes poor people do have A/C. Section 8 housing where i live most certinly comes with A/C. My point was 700 is alot, if this were to happen you would probably deem AC a rite for poor people because they can't afford it. Am I right?

polaris_x

HeidiJam wrote:

All of what your explaining has happend in before and will happen again, and continues to happen. Thats just the way the earth works, it goes in cycles. But let me guess... We humans can prevent it all right?

i'm sorry you have no interest in educating yourself on the science of climate change ... do you even KNOW how the earth works? ... do you even understand the fundamentals of meteorology? ... i suspect you do not ...

these devastating events are caused by man ... most people in this world know this ... why you do not is troubling and sad ...

redrock

HeidiJam wrote:

... AC a rite ....?

The rite of the A/C. All bow to it!

You are taking the piss, aren't you? Your posts are just there to rub everyone the wrong way. You're doing it on purpose, aren't you? It can't be that the kind of things you say are what you teach your kid/kids?

Blockhead

redrock wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

... AC a rite ....?

The rite of the A/C. All bow to it!

You are taking the piss, aren't you? Your posts are just there to rub everyone the wrong way. You're doing it on purpose, aren't you? It can't be that the kind of things you say are what you teach your kid/kids?

I teach my kids to be responsible, since they will be pay for your kids "rite" and the rest of lazy US to live.
Do you have an issue with me teaching my kids personal responsibilities?

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

All of what your explaining has happend in before and will happen again, and continues to happen. Thats just the way the earth works, it goes in cycles. But let me guess... We humans can prevent it all right?

i'm sorry you have no interest in educating yourself on the science of climate change ... do you even KNOW how the earth works? ... do you even understand the fundamentals of meteorology? ... i suspect you do not ...

these devastating events are caused by man ... most people in this world know this ... why you do not is troubling and sad ...

Please link me scientific proof read journals / articles (peer reviewed) laying out the science of climate change and what/which devastating events are caused by man. Please don't post again about this until you have your sources.

gimmesometruth27

HeidiJam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

I hope this dosent come to the US. We would be due for a Air Conditioning / air respirators reform and declare it a human rite, since people (especially poor) are dying from it.

poor ARE dying from this heat in the US every day. two died here in st. louis yesterday. the poor and the homeless do not have air conditioning, remember?

My dad didn't have A/C growing up whats your point. And yes poor people do have A/C. Section 8 housing where i live most certinly comes with A/C. My point was 700 is alot, if this were to happen you would probably deem AC a rite for poor people because they can't afford it. Am I right?

your dad didn't have ac, so what? was the heat the same back then as it is now? your post was condescending and exaggerating and extremely far reaching in assuming that those of us on here who actually care about human beings would arbitrarily dub everything a human right. it makes you sound like a fool.

you don't know me, so you should stop making assumptions ok? i never said ac is a "rite" and by the way please learn the difference between a "rite" and a "right"....

redrock

HeidiJam wrote:

redrock wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

... AC a rite ....?

The rite of the A/C. All bow to it!

You are taking the piss, aren't you? Your posts are just there to rub everyone the wrong way. You're doing it on purpose, aren't you? It can't be that the kind of things you say are what you teach your kid/kids?

I teach my kids to be responsible, since they will be pay for your kids "rite" and the rest of lazy US to live.
Do you have an issue with me teaching my kids personal responsibilities?

Personal responsibility goes beyond being selfish, exclusive and 'insular'. Personal responsibility is also being part of humanity and understanding how we are as a collective and making this collective work. You seem to think that besides you and your family, all are lazy bastards trying to live off of 'your' money. Nothing that is not in your immediate control seems to be your responsibility (ie the planet, etc.). Not the way I have taught my kid. BTW.. your kids will never have to pay for my kid's rights (note: in this context, right has nothing to do with rite).

I still think you're trolling.

polaris_x

HeidiJam wrote:

Please link me scientific proof read journals / articles (peer reviewed) laying out the science of climate change and what/which devastating events are caused by man. Please don't post again about this until you have your sources.

haha ... you can't be serious? ...

first of all - i don't see what gives you the authority to say whether i can post again or not ... in any case - feel free to look up the IPCC reports ... it's only the leading scientists on the subject but I suspect your mind is already made up on this ...

i have an environmental science degree and spent two work terms working with the climate related agencies ... i know what i know because i've studied it ... what i find truly sad is that you are asking for (peer reviewed) articles when every single article that counters anthropogenic climate change has not been peer reviewed ...

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Please link me scientific proof read journals / articles (peer reviewed) laying out the science of climate change and what/which devastating events are caused by man. Please don't post again about this until you have your sources.

haha ... you can't be serious? ...

first of all - i don't see what gives you the authority to say whether i can post again or not ... in any case - feel free to look up the IPCC reports ... it's only the leading scientists on the subject but I suspect your mind is already made up on this ...

i have an environmental science degree and spent two work terms working with the climate related agencies ... i know what i know because i've studied it ... what i find truly sad is that you are asking for (peer reviewed) articles when every single article that counters anthropogenic climate change has not been peer reviewed ...

I asked a simple question, and you clearly have no link to your "proof" working in a field does not make you an expert. I guess since you worked in the field and you have a degree you must be correct? What abou tall those 9/11 architects and engineers that go against the offical story. THey have degrees and spent more than two working terms in their related field. Is that enough to convince you???

polaris_x

HeidiJam wrote:

I asked a simple question, and you clearly have no link to your "proof" working in a field does not make you an expert. I guess since you worked in the field and you have a degree you must be correct? What abou tall those 9/11 architects and engineers that go against the offical story. THey have degrees and spent more than two working terms in their related field. Is that enough to convince you???

uhhh ... i have a plethora of articles and links but you could easily look those up yourself ... so, why don't you? ... why should i waste my time posting links that you are going to ignore anyways!?? ...

you are right tho - just because i've actually studied it doesn't necessarily make me an expert ... but i do have the fundamental knowledge of the science and can understand it's workings ... what do you know that makes you certain this is not caused by man? ... you don't need a degree in anything but you must at least be educated in something that will give you insight otherwise your just relying on others to form your opinion ...

as for your example ... at least you can have discussions with said engineers and refute and debate because there is a core understanding of the science ... what do you know about earth sciences, meteorology, climatology that allows you to know for certain?

Blockhead

redrock wrote:

Personal responsibility goes beyond being selfish, exclusive and 'insular'. Personal responsibility is also being part of humanity and understanding how we are as a collective and making this collective work. You seem to think that besides you and your family, all are lazy bastards trying to live off of 'your' money. Nothing that is not in your immediate control seems to be your responsibility (ie the planet, etc.). Not the way I have taught my kid. BTW.. your kids will never have to pay for my kid's rights (note: in this context, right has nothing to do with rite).

I still think you're trolling.

I am just trying to figure out where you draw the line on these human rights. You seems to think that anything that kills alot of people, if there is a prevenative measure, then is should be a human right. Why not A/C, you clearly don't care about these Russian people, 700 a day. When is enough, enough.
And i have never said that personal responsibility is a selfish act. And i agree with your definition some what. But that all has to start from you being responsible for your actions, once you can accomplish your own responsibilities, then I think you can be responsible for other areas such as humanity. You seem to think that everybody in the US is hard working and have exhausted every avenue to succeed and have come down on bad luck. Your the one who brough up our kids. I suggest you keep children our of our converstaion.

polaris_x

HeidiJam wrote:

But that all has to start from you being responsible for your actions

but if you won't acknowledge your actions ... what good is this?

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

uhhh ... i have a plethora of articles and links but you could easily look those up yourself ... so, why don't you? ... why should i waste my time posting links that you are going to ignore anyways!?? ...

you are right tho - just because i've actually studied it doesn't necessarily make me an expert ... but i do have the fundamental knowledge of the science and can understand it's workings ... what do you know that makes you certain this is not caused by man? ... you don't need a degree in anything but you must at least be educated in something that will give you insight otherwise your just relying on others to form your opinion ...

as for your example ... at least you can have discussions with said engineers and refute and debate because there is a core understanding of the science ... what do you know about earth sciences, meteorology, climatology that allows you to know for certain?

THe point on this matter is there is no definitive proof (YET)that climate change is man made or natural. YET being the key word. I personally believe that its a bit of both but i am not going on anyones said until i know for sure. There were huge heat wave in 800 - 1300 followed by a small ice age. And there was no industrilization then. I could post severial secientific articles also that goin against it being man made. Thats why I am not taking sides. I didn't mean to down grade your education at all. I am sure you know well more than me. I just don't like that acusations of man made when we don't really know YET. But i generally agree that now we are causing harm, but i don't know if that necessarly coorilates with todays climate change.

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

But that all has to start from you being responsible for your actions

but if you won't acknowledge your actions ... what good is this?

how am i not acknowledge my actions?

Jason P

HeidiJam wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

uhhh ... i have a plethora of articles and links but you could easily look those up yourself ... so, why don't you? ... why should i waste my time posting links that you are going to ignore anyways!?? ...

you are right tho - just because i've actually studied it doesn't necessarily make me an expert ... but i do have the fundamental knowledge of the science and can understand it's workings ... what do you know that makes you certain this is not caused by man? ... you don't need a degree in anything but you must at least be educated in something that will give you insight otherwise your just relying on others to form your opinion ...

as for your example ... at least you can have discussions with said engineers and refute and debate because there is a core understanding of the science ... what do you know about earth sciences, meteorology, climatology that allows you to know for certain?

THe point on this matter is there is no definitive proof (YET)that climate change is man made or natural. YET being the key word. I personally believe that its a bit of both but i am not going on anyones said until i know for sure. There were huge heat wave in 800 - 1300 followed by a small ice age. And there was no industrilization then. I could post severial secientific articles also that goin against it being man made. Thats why I am not taking sides. I didn't mean to down grade your education at all. I am sure you know well more than me. I just don't like that acusations of man made when we don't really know YET. But i generally agree that now we are causing harm, but i don't know if that necessarly coorilates with todays climate change.

+1

The biggest problem with climate change is that certain groups use it as a fear-tactic in to push their agendas. It thus has become a polarizing issue.

redrock

HeidiJam wrote:

I am just trying to figure out where you draw the line on these human rights. You seems to think that anything that kills alot of people, if there is a prevenative measure, then is should be a human right. Why not A/C, you clearly don't care about these Russian people, 700 a day. When is enough, enough. .

Human rights... .you need to re-read posts on this thread and you need to understand what is actually meant by Human Rights. Also, if you understood the problem in Russia, it has nothing to do with A/C but with a poisonous smog, mainly caused by the wildfires (in turned caused by the heatwave). So stop trying to be such a smart ass.

This is what is killing so many people:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/08/ ... 34x315.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/08/ ... 34x420.jpg

Not some lack of electrical appliance.

polaris_x

HeidiJam wrote:

THe point on this matter is there is no definitive proof (YET)that climate change is man made or natural. YET being the key word. I personally believe that its a bit of both but i am not going on anyones said until i know for sure. There were huge heat wave in 800 - 1300 followed by a small ice age. And there was no industrilization then. I could post severial secientific articles also that goin against it being man made. Thats why I am not taking sides. I didn't mean to down grade your education at all. I am sure you know well more than me. I just don't like that acusations of man made when we don't really know YET. But i generally agree that now we are causing harm, but i don't know if that necessarly coorilates with todays climate change.

there has been scientific consensus on this subject for some time now ... i can guarantee you that you CAN NOT post any scientific article disputing anthropogenic climate change that is peer reviewed ... all the opposing views are funded by big oil companies or conservative think tanks working on behalf of big oil ... just look at the threads prfctlefts starts on this ... each time he posts a link - eventually, it is tied to some guy who got paid by exxon or something ... every single time ...

why do you think countries are meeting to discuss climate change if it wasn't real? ... do you think they would just drum up something just so they can meet every 6 months or so to negotiate a deal? ... the debate on whether it is man-made has long sailed now ... the question is whether we are going to do something about it ...

polaris_x

HeidiJam wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

But that all has to start from you being responsible for your actions

but if you won't acknowledge your actions ... what good is this?

how am i not acknowledge my actions?

well ... if you don't believe that climate change is caused by human activity - then you clearly are not accepting responsibility for your actions ...

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

+1

The biggest problem with climate change is that certain groups use it as a fear-tactic in to push their agendas. It thus has become a polarizing issue.

no ... the biggest problem is that many people would rather believe propaganda PR firms over climate scientists ... they would rather listen to the garbage funded by exxon than that of NGO's ... that's the biggest problem ...

haffajappa

Jason P wrote:

+1

The biggest problem with climate change is that certain groups use it as a fear-tactic in to push their agendas. It thus has become a polarizing issue.

I would say you could use it either way that both groups could use it as a fear tactic.
Support off shore drilling, because climate change is a lie!

I hear so many times. "oh climate change is a lie, so I can buy my big ass ford f150 and idle it for 3 hours"
Climate Change is an excuse. People choose whether to believe in a single facet of the world's environmental problems. As if dying seas and forests and brown smog isn't enough evidence for them to stop fucking up the planet.

Ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is bliss.