Leftist "Historian" Howard Zinn Lied About Red Ties

DL136722

6

gimmesometruth27

DL136722 wrote:

You really trying to give me the "we've been out here for a while speech" go screw you monkey! Look back at the recent posts, not just mine, all of them. Who starting cursing out who? I merely responed to something, then I get attacked by the wolves/family. The problem is, if someone like me disagrees with a "long time" pearl jam fan club members post, apparently there is all hell to be paid. It sounds like to me, not all but most of you are basement dwelling losers who are probably single still living with mom and dad waiting for that next PJ tour and come out here until then to have a love fest with one another. Truth always hurts, so when the FBI comes out with stuff against Zinn, it's natural reaction to be like no way but the truth is in the pudding. Zinn was apart of shady groups and now it's time to be exposed - i just wish he was alive to answer all of this and watching him twitch. I don't like the extreme left or right, neither one is remotely good for this country. And yes if you believe in Obama or Zinn you to are probably a socialist and in my opinion that is not good either. Like I said I voted for Obama, I met Zinn - I too was a believer but I took a step back and asked, "What have these men of intellect done for me?" Answer - NOTHING! Obama is nothing more than this generations Jimmy Carter nothing more nothing less! Ask yourself - what has he done? Jobs getting better - no, housing better - no, where is the bail out money - ? Why has he had more tv time than Bush and Clinton combined. One thing I have to say about Bush, love him or hate him he did what he wanted how he wanted when he wanted and Obama doesn't have the balls to be like that and he should. I hope Obama loses the next election and Eddie goes back to mr. negative then all of you will see it's just for show.

ok. suit yourself...

WaveCameCrashin

[Please chic... Your giving yourself too much credit. The fact that you think that I just made all this up is hilarious.. So I guess the FBI is lying huh?


quote="TriumphantAngel"]

prfctlefts wrote:

Is anyone even suprised by this ?

surprised that you would make up a thread about Zinn after i mention him in a post to you earlier where you ignored the points i made? hardly surprising at all.

http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic ... 9&start=15

and i agree with what five wrote. every word of it.[/quote]

WaveCameCrashin

So what your saying is the FBI is lying? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the FBI might be right on this. I mean why would they just make it up? It's not like he was ever a threat to national security. But it's pretty obvious to me that he didn't like America.

FiveB247x wrote:

This is nonsense. Zinn isn't and never was a "communist", hell the USSR and every other alleged communist nation aren't even communist by definition, they're offshoot socialists in practice. Anyways, if you know, read or understand anything Zinn has ever said or written, you'd realize he's no communist by any means of the imagination. It's nothing more than ignorant association, banter and confusion of political terminology. Perhaps all these wingnuts on the right can grasp the difference between socialism and communism before designating others to such?

Zinn described himself as “Something of an anarchist, something of a socialist. Maybe a democratic socialist.”[51] He suggested looking at socialism in its full historical context. In Madison, Wisconsin in 2009, Zinn said:
"Let's talk about socialism. I think it's very important to bring back the idea of socialism into the national discussion to where it was at the turn of the [last] century before the Soviet Union gave it a bad name. Socialism had a good name in this country. Socialism had Eugene Debs. It had Clarence Darrow. It had Mother Jones. It had Emma Goldman. It had several million people reading socialist newspapers around the country. Socialism basically said, hey, let's have a kinder, gentler society. Let's share things. Let's have an economic system that produces things not because they're profitable for some corporation, but produces things that people need. People should not be retreating from the word socialism because you have to go beyond capitalism."

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

So what your saying is the FBI is lying? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the FBI might be right on this. I mean why would they just make it up? It's not like he was ever a threat to national security. But it's pretty obvious to me that he didn't like America.

so by asking questions and trying to look at things in a different way he hates america? doesn't beck say he is "only asking questions"??? then let me connect the dots like beck...

"zinn was asking questions and he hated america, i'm only asking questions, thus, I HATE AMERICA!!!!!!!!!"

WaveCameCrashin

Sounds like you need some anger management classes. Dude you don't know a damn thing about me or what I do. I can back every thing up I have ever posted on here. Un like you my head is not in the sand.

_outlaw wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Is anyone even suprised by this ? Im not.. I could tell the guy didn't like this country when I watched the people speak. It had nothing positve to say about our country ..
I wonder if Ed will take his last name off his guitar.. I doubt it.

you're disgraceful. Howard Zinn doesn't like this country? He spent his entire life here, he fucking fought for this country in World War II which I'll happily assume is more than you have ever done. He spent his entire life trying to make this country a better place. This country has many problems. You can't fix them by going around talking about how wonderful this country is, you fix it by fucking addressing the problems! This is what the right wing agenda is, any dissenter is a traitor. if you don't follow blindly like you do then you're unamerican and a communist.

and people think Senator McCarthy is dead? he's alive and well in all of you fools who keep these charades up. what happened to the freedom to associate by the way? i assume we should just take a shit on the constitution.

fuck

prfctlefts wrote:

So what your saying is the FBI is lying? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the FBI might be right on this. I mean why would they just make it up? It's not like he was ever a threat to national security. But it's pretty obvious to me that he didn't like America.

agreed, it's not like the FBI has ever done anything illegal...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

TriumphantAngel

prfctlefts wrote:

Sounds like you need some anger management classes. Dude you don't know a damn thing about me or what I do. I can back every thing up I have ever posted on here. Un like you my head is not in the sand.

_outlaw wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Is anyone even suprised by this ? Im not.. I could tell the guy didn't like this country when I watched the people speak. It had nothing positve to say about our country ..
I wonder if Ed will take his last name off his guitar.. I doubt it.

you're disgraceful. Howard Zinn doesn't like this country? He spent his entire life here, he fucking fought for this country in World War II which I'll happily assume is more than you have ever done. He spent his entire life trying to make this country a better place. This country has many problems. You can't fix them by going around talking about how wonderful this country is, you fix it by fucking addressing the problems! This is what the right wing agenda is, any dissenter is a traitor. if you don't follow blindly like you do then you're unamerican and a communist.

and people think Senator McCarthy is dead? he's alive and well in all of you fools who keep these charades up. what happened to the freedom to associate by the way? i assume we should just take a shit on the constitution.

you can back up everything you say? please do it then,

i'm still waiting for you to back up your comment where you said there are people posting here who don't recognize Israel's right to exisit."

i asked you to show where anyone has said that. still waiting.

TriumphantAngel

"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of leaders…and millions have been killed because of this obedience…Our problem is that people are obedient allover the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves… (and) the grand thieves are running the country. That’s our problem."

— Howard Zinn

FiveB247x

No the FBI is not lying per say, but it's no different from me saying you listen to PJ and therefore are anti-american because some of their lyrics and fans veer to the far left which could be constituted as more against than for the US. Simple association tactics do not equate to belief, practice and working to take down a government, political theory or similar... and that's all their claims and yours amount too. Guilt by Association isn't a legitimate cause to make such an assumption.. it's nothing more than McCarthyism, which is basically what the FBI and government used to do and obviously still does, but now it's more wide spread, not solely communism.

prfctlefts wrote:

So what your saying is the FBI is lying? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the FBI might be right on this. I mean why would they just make it up? It's not like he was ever a threat to national security. But it's pretty obvious to me that he didn't like America.

FiveB247x

Also, you say Howard Zinn hated America? How exactly was that? He was thoroughly politically and socially involved... he also didn't just teach from textbooks, he taught by example and was a a civil rights leader.... does that sound like someone who is against the tenets of our Constitution? For some one (and many others), who proclaim bringing back tea-party morals which back the founding period of our nation, you certainly don't stick to them when it someone does the same but is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Either free speech and rights are good for all, or none at all...not just the one's who back your view point.

ed243421

TriumphantAngel wrote:

"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of leaders…and millions have been killed because of this obedience…Our problem is that people are obedient allover the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves… (and) the grand thieves are running the country. That’s our problem."

— Howard Zinn

love that quote
can't for the life of me understand this
how and why we slaves obey the master?
for the love of money?
for the chance for more?
for the threat of losing it all?
it's seems like a game we do not have to play
but most of us do

kcherub

Yeah...one of my "right" friends posted this under a picture of Howard and myself on my FB page, and I pretty much just chucked it there, too. If the FBI wanted to, they could create a file on me, so I take it with a grain of salt.

markin ball

prfctlefts wrote:

So what your saying is the FBI is lying? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the FBI might be right on this. I mean why would they just make it up? It's not like he was ever a threat to national security. But it's pretty obvious to me that he didn't like America.

FiveB247x wrote:

This is nonsense. Zinn isn't and never was a "communist", hell the USSR and every other alleged communist nation aren't even communist by definition, they're offshoot socialists in practice. Anyways, if you know, read or understand anything Zinn has ever said or written, you'd realize he's no communist by any means of the imagination. It's nothing more than ignorant association, banter and confusion of political terminology. Perhaps all these wingnuts on the right can grasp the difference between socialism and communism before designating others to such?

Zinn described himself as “Something of an anarchist, something of a socialist. Maybe a democratic socialist.”[51] He suggested looking at socialism in its full historical context. In Madison, Wisconsin in 2009, Zinn said:
"Let's talk about socialism. I think it's very important to bring back the idea of socialism into the national discussion to where it was at the turn of the [last] century before the Soviet Union gave it a bad name. Socialism had a good name in this country. Socialism had Eugene Debs. It had Clarence Darrow. It had Mother Jones. It had Emma Goldman. It had several million people reading socialist newspapers around the country. Socialism basically said, hey, let's have a kinder, gentler society. Let's share things. Let's have an economic system that produces things not because they're profitable for some corporation, but produces things that people need. People should not be retreating from the word socialism because you have to go beyond capitalism."

What does not liking America even mean? If you do not like the current government or its policies, do you also dislike America? Or maybe you really do like America and have some ideas on how to make it better.
Which is it for you?

FiveB247x

Every person is a revolutionary to get their will and belief in power, there-after everyone else becomes an enemy of the state in some fashion. Complete and utter ignorance in practice. It's cyclical and mindless.

markin ball wrote:

What does not liking America even mean? If you do not like the current government or its policies, do you also dislike America? Or maybe you really do like America and have some ideas on how to make it better.
Which is it for you?

markin ball

FiveB247x wrote:

Every person is a revolutionary to get their will and belief in power, there-after everyone else becomes an enemy of the state in some fashion. Complete and utter ignorance in practice. It's cyclical and mindless.

markin ball wrote:

What does not liking America even mean? If you do not like the current government or its policies, do you also dislike America? Or maybe you really do like America and have some ideas on how to make it better.
Which is it for you?

Exactly...and since prfct currently, vehemently disagrees with the government, I think it is obvious he hates America.

mikepegg44

_outlaw wrote:

This is what the right wing agenda is, any dissenter is a traitor. if you don't follow blindly like you do then you're unamerican and a communist.
and people think Senator McCarthy is dead? he's alive and well in all of you fools who keep these charades up. what happened to the freedom to associate by the way? i assume we should just take a shit on the constitution.

The left wing agenda is if you don't hate the country and think it has all of these HUGE problems, you must be a blind sheep follower of Beck and Limbaugh.
Stop with the generalizations that people on the right think dissenters are traitors, it's as ridiculous as claiming that all people on the left hate america. Zinn was a lot of things, but an unbiased observer of history he was not. Every event of the past can be looked at through many glasses, Zinn was doing what he thought was his calling. His place in life. I may not agree with his positions but I certainly respect him for dedicating his life to something. I respect anyone who tries to make this country a better place, no matter what side they are coming from. I wish more people could say that about the people they disagree with. All too often we immortalize the people we agree with and demonize the people we don't.

And who cares if he was a member of the communist party or not, him being able to voice his opinion in the political arena, and on the world stage, is the best part about this country. We can pretty much say whatever we want about our government without fear of jail time and execution

Kat

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FiveB247x

Mike you're contradicting yourself here.. in the first comment you generalize about the left. Also, why don't you aim these comments to the posters claiming Zinn was communist or similar?

mikepegg44 wrote:

The left wing agenda is if you don't hate the country and think it has all of these HUGE problems, you must be a blind sheep follower of Beck and Limbaugh.
Stop with the generalizations that people on the right think dissenters are traitors, it's as ridiculous as claiming that all people on the left hate america. Zinn was a lot of things, but an unbiased observer of history he was not. Every event of the past can be looked at through many glasses, Zinn was doing what he thought was his calling. His place in life. I may not agree with his positions but I certainly respect him for dedicating his life to something. I respect anyone who tries to make this country a better place, no matter what side they are coming from. I wish more people could say that about the people they disagree with. All too often we immortalize the people we agree with and demonize the people we don't.

And who cares if he was a member of the communist party or not, him being able to voice his opinion in the political arena, and on the world stage, is the best part about this country. We can pretty much say whatever we want about our government without fear of jail time and execution

mikepegg44

FiveB247x wrote:

Mike you're contradicting yourself here.. in the first comment you generalize about the left. Also, why don't you aim these comments to the posters claiming Zinn was communist or similar?


I was pointing out the silliness of the generalizations, i thought that was obvious but I guess not. I forget that posts don't generally allow for tone.
the comment I replied to called right wingers mccarthyists who don't think for themselves and are sheep.
The rest of the comment was a post simply about Zinn and dissenters in general. I could have a put a paragraph in to separate the two I guess, but I didn't think it was necessary.
I don't have to point it at anyone in particular, but I felt compelled to add the part about the left/right wing generalizations and point that directly at someone who was calling myself and others "right" of the center sheep.