Also, you say Howard Zinn hated America? How exactly was that? He was thoroughly politically and socially involved... he also didn't just teach from textbooks, he taught by example and was a a civil rights leader.... does that sound like someone who is against the tenets of our Constitution? For some one (and many others), who proclaim bringing back tea-party morals which back the founding period of our nation, you certainly don't stick to them when it someone does the same but is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Either free speech and rights are good for all, or none at all...not just the one's who back your view point.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of leaders…and millions have been killed because of this obedience…Our problem is that people are obedient allover the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves… (and) the grand thieves are running the country. That’s our problem."
— Howard Zinn
love that quote
can't for the life of me understand this
how and why we slaves obey the master?
for the love of money?
for the chance for more?
for the threat of losing it all?
it's seems like a game we do not have to play
but most of us do
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Yeah...one of my "right" friends posted this under a picture of Howard and myself on my FB page, and I pretty much just chucked it there, too. If the FBI wanted to, they could create a file on me, so I take it with a grain of salt.
I still want you all to "take care"--I am just damn tired of typing it.
So what your saying is the FBI is lying? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the FBI might be right on this. I mean why would they just make it up? It's not like he was ever a threat to national security. But it's pretty obvious to me that he didn't like America.
This is nonsense. Zinn isn't and never was a "communist", hell the USSR and every other alleged communist nation aren't even communist by definition, they're offshoot socialists in practice. Anyways, if you know, read or understand anything Zinn has ever said or written, you'd realize he's no communist by any means of the imagination. It's nothing more than ignorant association, banter and confusion of political terminology. Perhaps all these wingnuts on the right can grasp the difference between socialism and communism before designating others to such?
Zinn described himself as “Something of an anarchist, something of a socialist. Maybe a democratic socialist.”[51] He suggested looking at socialism in its full historical context. In Madison, Wisconsin in 2009, Zinn said:
"Let's talk about socialism. I think it's very important to bring back the idea of socialism into the national discussion to where it was at the turn of the [last] century before the Soviet Union gave it a bad name. Socialism had a good name in this country. Socialism had Eugene Debs. It had Clarence Darrow. It had Mother Jones. It had Emma Goldman. It had several million people reading socialist newspapers around the country. Socialism basically said, hey, let's have a kinder, gentler society. Let's share things. Let's have an economic system that produces things not because they're profitable for some corporation, but produces things that people need. People should not be retreating from the word socialism because you have to go beyond capitalism."
What does not liking America even mean? If you do not like the current government or its policies, do you also dislike America? Or maybe you really do like America and have some ideas on how to make it better.
Which is it for you?
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
Every person is a revolutionary to get their will and belief in power, there-after everyone else becomes an enemy of the state in some fashion. Complete and utter ignorance in practice. It's cyclical and mindless.
What does not liking America even mean? If you do not like the current government or its policies, do you also dislike America? Or maybe you really do like America and have some ideas on how to make it better.
Which is it for you?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Every person is a revolutionary to get their will and belief in power, there-after everyone else becomes an enemy of the state in some fashion. Complete and utter ignorance in practice. It's cyclical and mindless.
What does not liking America even mean? If you do not like the current government or its policies, do you also dislike America? Or maybe you really do like America and have some ideas on how to make it better.
Which is it for you?
Exactly...and since prfct currently, vehemently disagrees with the government, I think it is obvious he hates America.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
This is what the right wing agenda is, any dissenter is a traitor. if you don't follow blindly like you do then you're unamerican and a communist.
and people think Senator McCarthy is dead? he's alive and well in all of you fools who keep these charades up. what happened to the freedom to associate by the way? i assume we should just take a shit on the constitution.
The left wing agenda is if you don't hate the country and think it has all of these HUGE problems, you must be a blind sheep follower of Beck and Limbaugh.
Stop with the generalizations that people on the right think dissenters are traitors, it's as ridiculous as claiming that all people on the left hate america. Zinn was a lot of things, but an unbiased observer of history he was not. Every event of the past can be looked at through many glasses, Zinn was doing what he thought was his calling. His place in life. I may not agree with his positions but I certainly respect him for dedicating his life to something. I respect anyone who tries to make this country a better place, no matter what side they are coming from. I wish more people could say that about the people they disagree with. All too often we immortalize the people we agree with and demonize the people we don't.
And who cares if he was a member of the communist party or not, him being able to voice his opinion in the political arena, and on the world stage, is the best part about this country. We can pretty much say whatever we want about our government without fear of jail time and execution
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Posting Guidelines
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2. Discuss, disagree and debatepolitely. It's possible to disagree with people without being abusive, and it's a requirement here. This includes abusive Private Messages.
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Mike you're contradicting yourself here.. in the first comment you generalize about the left. Also, why don't you aim these comments to the posters claiming Zinn was communist or similar?
The left wing agenda is if you don't hate the country and think it has all of these HUGE problems, you must be a blind sheep follower of Beck and Limbaugh.
Stop with the generalizations that people on the right think dissenters are traitors, it's as ridiculous as claiming that all people on the left hate america. Zinn was a lot of things, but an unbiased observer of history he was not. Every event of the past can be looked at through many glasses, Zinn was doing what he thought was his calling. His place in life. I may not agree with his positions but I certainly respect him for dedicating his life to something. I respect anyone who tries to make this country a better place, no matter what side they are coming from. I wish more people could say that about the people they disagree with. All too often we immortalize the people we agree with and demonize the people we don't.
And who cares if he was a member of the communist party or not, him being able to voice his opinion in the political arena, and on the world stage, is the best part about this country. We can pretty much say whatever we want about our government without fear of jail time and execution
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Mike you're contradicting yourself here.. in the first comment you generalize about the left. Also, why don't you aim these comments to the posters claiming Zinn was communist or similar?
I was pointing out the silliness of the generalizations, i thought that was obvious but I guess not. I forget that posts don't generally allow for tone.
the comment I replied to called right wingers mccarthyists who don't think for themselves and are sheep.
The rest of the comment was a post simply about Zinn and dissenters in general. I could have a put a paragraph in to separate the two I guess, but I didn't think it was necessary.
I don't have to point it at anyone in particular, but I felt compelled to add the part about the left/right wing generalizations and point that directly at someone who was calling myself and others "right" of the center sheep.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I'm not sure why this is even a "story"? If you disagree with Zinn on everything, they you already think he is a pinko communist, if you take his word as gospel, nothing like this will sway your opinion, and if you fall in the middle and think his view is a somewhat important view that should be taken into consideration with other views of history/this country, then you are still going take his books for that different point of view.
And can we please stop using the "hates America" card? It is probably the most single-handily stupid attack that the right uses... Just come out and say that you hate that person you are referring to, because I can assure you that just because they have a different political view, they do not hate our country. It's moronic... if someone disagreed with how Bush & crew was running the country, they hated america or were traitors... but now, if someone disagrees with Obama, they are a great patriot (and vice versa)? You can't have it both ways...
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I'm not sure why this is even a "story"? If you disagree with Zinn on everything, they you already think he is a pinko communist, if you take his word as gospel, nothing like this will sway your opinion, and if you fall in the middle and think his view is a somewhat important view that should be taken into consideration with other views of history/this country, then you are still going take his books for that different point of view.
And can we please stop using the "hates America" card? It is probably the most single-handily stupid attack that the right uses... Just come out and say that you hate that person you are referring to, because I can assure you that just because they have a different political view, they do not hate our country. It's moronic... if someone disagreed with how Bush & crew was running the country, they hated america or were traitors... but now, if someone disagrees with Obama, they are a great patriot (and vice versa)? You can't have it both ways...
i find it funny when one side claims to have a monopoly on "america". nobody owns it so one side can not claim to be "real americans" while dismissing those that disagree as "hating america". i agree with your entire post.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Call me crazy but I think there are MUCH worse things than communism. Someone wanna explain to me why every member of a society SHOULDN'T be given equal weight in decision-making and why the best interest of the collective society SHOULDN'T be our focus?
Excerpt from wikipedia:
"Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless society, one where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made in the best interests of the collective society with the interests of every member of society given equal weight in the practical decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.
Is anyone even suprised by this ? Im not.. I could tell the guy didn't like this country when I watched the people speak. It had nothing positve to say about our country ..
I wonder if Ed will take his last name off his guitar.. I doubt it.
Howard Zinn's entire life was spent trying to make this a better place. He risked his life to fight fascism....he spent the rest of it fighting what the world was becoming.
History is told from the point of view of the victors...but not Zinn's. His history is told from the point of view of the victims. You're showing how little you know about this hero.
Posting Guidelines
1. Be nice. We're very big on RESPECT here. Respect for each other, the band and the Ten Club Community forum environment. Please think of it as if you are as a guest in someone else's home. Please do not put your posting privileges at risk.
2. Discuss, disagree and debatepolitely. It's possible to disagree with people without being abusive, and it's a requirement here. This includes abusive Private Messages.
It seems people are getting personal and offending each other on purpose. It's not ok. If you can't debate the topic without getting personal, you don't belong here and will be leaving the forums. So just remember, if you're not following these guidelines, you're banning yourselves. Personal grudges will open the exit door for you. Let the bannings begin.
Posting Guidelines
1. Be nice. We're very big on RESPECT here. Respect for each other, the band and the Ten Club Community forum environment. Please think of it as if you are as a guest in someone else's home. Please do not put your posting privileges at risk.
2. Discuss, disagree and debatepolitely. It's possible to disagree with people without being abusive, and it's a requirement here. This includes abusive Private Messages.
It seems people are getting personal and offending each other on purpose. It's not ok. If you can't debate the topic without getting personal, you don't belong here and will be leaving the forums. So just remember, if you're not following these guidelines, you're banning yourselves. Personal grudges will open the exit door for you. Let the bannings begin.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Comments
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
love that quote
can't for the life of me understand this
how and why we slaves obey the master?
for the love of money?
for the chance for more?
for the threat of losing it all?
it's seems like a game we do not have to play
but most of us do
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
http://www.youtube.com/user/kcherub#p/a/u/0/N-UQprRqSwo
What does not liking America even mean? If you do not like the current government or its policies, do you also dislike America? Or maybe you really do like America and have some ideas on how to make it better.
Which is it for you?
"With our thoughts we make the world"
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Exactly...and since prfct currently, vehemently disagrees with the government, I think it is obvious he hates America.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
The left wing agenda is if you don't hate the country and think it has all of these HUGE problems, you must be a blind sheep follower of Beck and Limbaugh.
Stop with the generalizations that people on the right think dissenters are traitors, it's as ridiculous as claiming that all people on the left hate america. Zinn was a lot of things, but an unbiased observer of history he was not. Every event of the past can be looked at through many glasses, Zinn was doing what he thought was his calling. His place in life. I may not agree with his positions but I certainly respect him for dedicating his life to something. I respect anyone who tries to make this country a better place, no matter what side they are coming from. I wish more people could say that about the people they disagree with. All too often we immortalize the people we agree with and demonize the people we don't.
And who cares if he was a member of the communist party or not, him being able to voice his opinion in the political arena, and on the world stage, is the best part about this country. We can pretty much say whatever we want about our government without fear of jail time and execution
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
1. Be nice. We're very big on RESPECT here. Respect for each other, the band and the Ten Club Community forum environment. Please think of it as if you are as a guest in someone else's home. Please do not put your posting privileges at risk.
2. Discuss, disagree and debate politely. It's possible to disagree with people without being abusive, and it's a requirement here. This includes abusive Private Messages.
It seems people are getting personal and offending each other on purpose. It's not ok. If you can't debate the topic without getting personal, you don't belong here and will be leaving the forums. So just remember, if you're not following these guidelines, you're banning yourselves. Personal grudges will open the exit door for you. Let the bannings begin.
Your choice.
Admin
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
And can we please stop using the "hates America" card? It is probably the most single-handily stupid attack that the right uses... Just come out and say that you hate that person you are referring to, because I can assure you that just because they have a different political view, they do not hate our country. It's moronic... if someone disagreed with how Bush & crew was running the country, they hated america or were traitors... but now, if someone disagrees with Obama, they are a great patriot (and vice versa)? You can't have it both ways...
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Good stuff Norm thanks :thumbup:
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story
It reminds me of Lionel Hutz selling houses.
"There's the truth" * Frowns/shakes head*
" And the TRUTH!!" * Smiling/nods head*
Excerpt from wikipedia:
"Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless society, one where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made in the best interests of the collective society with the interests of every member of society given equal weight in the practical decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.
Howard Zinn's entire life was spent trying to make this a better place. He risked his life to fight fascism....he spent the rest of it fighting what the world was becoming.
History is told from the point of view of the victors...but not Zinn's. His history is told from the point of view of the victims. You're showing how little you know about this hero.
I'd trade 10,000 of you for 1 Howard Zinn.
Kat: Vader
T/A: The General
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5blbv4WFriM
ps. don't kill me Kat. :wave: :wave:
lol.
classic.
Kat to T.A. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MaJy7LH5js&feature=related
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis