Leftist "Historian" Howard Zinn Lied About Red Ties
WaveCameCrashin
Posts: 2,929
Is anyone even suprised by this ? Im not.. I could tell the guy didn't like this country when I watched the people speak. It had nothing positve to say about our country ..
I wonder if Ed will take his last name off his guitar.. I doubt it.
http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010073011 ... -ties.html
The prominent "progressive" historian Howard Zinn, whose books are force-fed to young people on many college campuses, was not only a member of the Moscow-controlled and Soviet-funded Communist Party USA (CPUSA) but lied about it, according to an FBI file released on Friday.
The file, consisting of three sections totaling 423 pages, was made available on the FBI's website and released in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request from this writer.
Zinn taught in the political science department of Boston University for 24 years, from 1964 to 1988, and has been a major influence on the modern-day "progressive" movement that backed Barack Obama for president.
Although Zinn denied being a member of the CPUSA, the FBI file discloses that several reliable informants in the party identified Zinn as a member who attended party meetings as many as five times a week.
What's more, one of the files reveals that a reliable informant provided a photograph of Zinn teaching a class on "Basic Marxism" at party headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, in 1951. A participant in the class said that Zinn taught that "the basic teaching of Marx and Lenin were sound and should be adhered to by those present."
The FBI file also includes information on Zinn's pro-Castro activism and support for radical groups such as the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), Progressive Labor Party (PLP), Socialist Workers Party (SWP), and Black Panther Party. Much of the latter was in connection with Zinn's support for a communist military victory in Vietnam. His dealings with the Communist regime in Hanoi included a visit to the communist capital.
Zinn was included on the "Security Index" and "Communist Index" maintained by the FBI. The "Security Index" was more ominous and included individuals who could be detained in the event of a national emergency.
The files confirm Zinn's membership in the party from 1948-1953 and one says he was "believed to be a CP member as of October, 1956." However, he denied membership in the party when interviewed by the FBI in 1953 and 1954 and claimed to be just a "liberal" or "leftist." He did admit involvement in several CPUSA front organizations, the documents say.
A 1964 FBI memorandum refers to Zinn as "a professor and writer who has a background of known membership in the Communist Party (CP) and has continued to demonstrate procommunist and anti-United States sympathies." It says that while Zinn had denied membership in the CPUSA, his denial "was not supported by facts"-a reference to the substantial evidence and eyewitness testimony provided by informants in the CPUSA.
In 1961, it says, Zinn "attempted to recruit students to attend 8th World Youth Festival [a communist-front gathering] and was described as pro-Castro in 1962. He publicly protested United States demand for withdrawal of Soviet missiles from Cuba."
Hence, Zinn wanted the United States and its citizens to be vulnerable to a Soviet nuclear attack.
In 1966, Zinn's name appeared on a list of sponsors of a testimonial dinner for Herbert Aptheker of the American Institute for Marxist Studies. Aptheker was a member of the national committee of the CPUSA.
After his death earlier this year, tributes for Zinn came from such luminaries as Bob Herbert of The New York Times, Eric Foner in The Nation, The Huffington Post, convicted cop-killer Mumia Abu-Jamal, Jane Fonda, Ralph Nader, and Bill Moyers.
A video tribute to Zinn has been posted by the Institute for Policy Studies, the pro-Marxist think tank in Washington, D.C. Nader was one of the speakers, praising The Progressive magazine for regularly running Zinn's column, including one in which Zinn had attacked Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.
For its part, The Progressive carried three tributes to Zinn after his death. "I hope, in sharing our thoughts, we can mitigate the grief and summon the energy to carry on. That's what Howard would have wanted," said Matthew Rothschild, editor of The Progressive.
Nader proposed a "Zinn Institute for Peace and Justice" to carry on his work.
But in the same way that he tried to deceive the FBI agents who interviewed him about his CPUSA membership, it is now obvious that Zinn had been deceiving his "progressive" and "liberal" fellow-travelers for decades.
This includes most recently the Hollywood left.
Zinn's book, A People's History of the United States, was made into a film, "The People Speak" which aired on the History Channel on cable television. It includes performances by actors and artists such as Matt Damon, Josh Brolin, Viggo Mortensen, Marisa Tomei, Bruce Springsteen, John Legend, and Danny Glover.
Dr. Libby H. O'Connell, senior vice president for outreach and chief historian for A&E Television Networks, described the film in glowing terms, saying that Zinn was "moving his message from high schools and college campuses to film..." and that A&E's History channel was honored to be the vehicle for that. She said that "The performers' commitment to Zinn's message makes this [film] a labor of love."
A&E Television Networks is a joint venture of The Hearst Corporation, Disney-ABC Television Group and NBC Universal.
In the film, actor Matt Damon observes, "Change doesn't come from the top, but rather from the bottom. Without everyday citizens pushing to make a difference, there would be no America." Damon reads the Declaration of Independence in the production.
But viewers were never told that Zinn favored the imposition of communist dictatorships on the people for whom he was supposedly speaking. And that his commitment, at least when he was a CPUSA member, was to the Soviet Union, not the United States or its founding documents.
However, at the time of the airing of "The People Speak" last December 13, some critics detected something was seriously wrong with the propagandistic effort. Liberal television reviewer Tom Shales of the Washington Post called the film "heavy-handed and agitproppy."
Worse than that, we now know that Zinn had been a secret communist who duped the Hollywood figures and rock stars into playing roles in his Marxist propaganda campaign.
And the campaign continues. "The People Speak" is now being distributed in the form of "The People Speak DVDs," complete with screening kits and gear. Proceeds go to the "Democracy is Not a Spectator Sport" community campaign "dedicated to extending Zinn's vision and inspiring people to stand up and SPEAK OUT."
Although one FBI document says that Zinn's listing on the FBI security index was cancelled in 1955, another document shows Acting FBI director L. Patrick Gray informing the U.S. Secret Service in 1972 that Zinn was "potentially dangerous" because of various factors, including his involvement in groups "engaged in activities inimical to [the] U.S."
Of course, this is not how the "progressives" who idolized Zinn and voted for Obama see it. Dave Zirin wrote in the "progressive" publication The Nation after Zinn's death that he was "a historian who made history" and that "we should strive to build on Howard's work and go out and make some history." He also spoke at the Washington, D.C. tribute to Zinn, calling him "our teacher" and a "fellow fighter for social justice."
Bill Bigelow of the "Rethinking Schools" website said Zinn was "an activist-a socialist, a pacifist, an antiracist, who never strayed from his conviction that humanity was capable of making this a much better world."
That "much better world" turns out to be communism.
While Zinn usually avoided sounding too pro-communist in his public statements, he gave an interview in 2003 defending collaboration with ANSWER, an "anti-war" group sponsored by the communist Workers World Party. "I don't believe in setting political tests for a broad-based movement that is centered on one issue, like ending the war," Zinn said.
He rejected "red-baiting," explaining, "My own attitude is: if there is a demonstration against the war, and I believe in the goal of ending a war, I won't ask who organized the demonstration. You march with people who have signs representing many different groups and ideologies but you are all there for the same purpose, stopping the war. I distrust the sincerity of people who peck away at broad-based movements by pointing to organizers or participants who have special political positions."
He reiterated: "We should not give political tests to people who do good organizing work."
Asked if the "war on terrorism" was "just a cover to perpetuate US global hegemony," Zinn replied, "Exactly. It is also a way to cover up the failure to solve domestic problems and build support for a President who got into office through a political coup and needs to show he has a mandate he doesn't deserve."
Not surprisingly, the Socialist Workers Party and International ANSWER also sent in tributes posted on the official Howard Zinn web page.
On the website of the Center for American Progress, the pro-Obama group funded by billionaire George Soros, Matthew Yglesias conceded the point that Zinn's popular People's History book was "neither good history nor good politics, offering basically nothing in terms of ways to think about solutions to the problems of the world..." But he said it was nevertheless read by "most of the best people" and "that's a pretty impressive achievement."
It is impressive and shocking that so many of these "best people" were taken in by Zinn's secret agenda of installing communist dictatorships in such places as Cuba and Vietnam in the name of "the people."
Now, in death, he may be hoping to see "the people" take power in the United States.
Cliff Kincaid is the Editor of Accuracy in Media, and can be contacted at <!-- e --><a href="mailto:cliff.kincaid@aim.org">cliff.kincaid@aim.org</a><!-- e -->.
I wonder if Ed will take his last name off his guitar.. I doubt it.
http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010073011 ... -ties.html
The prominent "progressive" historian Howard Zinn, whose books are force-fed to young people on many college campuses, was not only a member of the Moscow-controlled and Soviet-funded Communist Party USA (CPUSA) but lied about it, according to an FBI file released on Friday.
The file, consisting of three sections totaling 423 pages, was made available on the FBI's website and released in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request from this writer.
Zinn taught in the political science department of Boston University for 24 years, from 1964 to 1988, and has been a major influence on the modern-day "progressive" movement that backed Barack Obama for president.
Although Zinn denied being a member of the CPUSA, the FBI file discloses that several reliable informants in the party identified Zinn as a member who attended party meetings as many as five times a week.
What's more, one of the files reveals that a reliable informant provided a photograph of Zinn teaching a class on "Basic Marxism" at party headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, in 1951. A participant in the class said that Zinn taught that "the basic teaching of Marx and Lenin were sound and should be adhered to by those present."
The FBI file also includes information on Zinn's pro-Castro activism and support for radical groups such as the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), Progressive Labor Party (PLP), Socialist Workers Party (SWP), and Black Panther Party. Much of the latter was in connection with Zinn's support for a communist military victory in Vietnam. His dealings with the Communist regime in Hanoi included a visit to the communist capital.
Zinn was included on the "Security Index" and "Communist Index" maintained by the FBI. The "Security Index" was more ominous and included individuals who could be detained in the event of a national emergency.
The files confirm Zinn's membership in the party from 1948-1953 and one says he was "believed to be a CP member as of October, 1956." However, he denied membership in the party when interviewed by the FBI in 1953 and 1954 and claimed to be just a "liberal" or "leftist." He did admit involvement in several CPUSA front organizations, the documents say.
A 1964 FBI memorandum refers to Zinn as "a professor and writer who has a background of known membership in the Communist Party (CP) and has continued to demonstrate procommunist and anti-United States sympathies." It says that while Zinn had denied membership in the CPUSA, his denial "was not supported by facts"-a reference to the substantial evidence and eyewitness testimony provided by informants in the CPUSA.
In 1961, it says, Zinn "attempted to recruit students to attend 8th World Youth Festival [a communist-front gathering] and was described as pro-Castro in 1962. He publicly protested United States demand for withdrawal of Soviet missiles from Cuba."
Hence, Zinn wanted the United States and its citizens to be vulnerable to a Soviet nuclear attack.
In 1966, Zinn's name appeared on a list of sponsors of a testimonial dinner for Herbert Aptheker of the American Institute for Marxist Studies. Aptheker was a member of the national committee of the CPUSA.
After his death earlier this year, tributes for Zinn came from such luminaries as Bob Herbert of The New York Times, Eric Foner in The Nation, The Huffington Post, convicted cop-killer Mumia Abu-Jamal, Jane Fonda, Ralph Nader, and Bill Moyers.
A video tribute to Zinn has been posted by the Institute for Policy Studies, the pro-Marxist think tank in Washington, D.C. Nader was one of the speakers, praising The Progressive magazine for regularly running Zinn's column, including one in which Zinn had attacked Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.
For its part, The Progressive carried three tributes to Zinn after his death. "I hope, in sharing our thoughts, we can mitigate the grief and summon the energy to carry on. That's what Howard would have wanted," said Matthew Rothschild, editor of The Progressive.
Nader proposed a "Zinn Institute for Peace and Justice" to carry on his work.
But in the same way that he tried to deceive the FBI agents who interviewed him about his CPUSA membership, it is now obvious that Zinn had been deceiving his "progressive" and "liberal" fellow-travelers for decades.
This includes most recently the Hollywood left.
Zinn's book, A People's History of the United States, was made into a film, "The People Speak" which aired on the History Channel on cable television. It includes performances by actors and artists such as Matt Damon, Josh Brolin, Viggo Mortensen, Marisa Tomei, Bruce Springsteen, John Legend, and Danny Glover.
Dr. Libby H. O'Connell, senior vice president for outreach and chief historian for A&E Television Networks, described the film in glowing terms, saying that Zinn was "moving his message from high schools and college campuses to film..." and that A&E's History channel was honored to be the vehicle for that. She said that "The performers' commitment to Zinn's message makes this [film] a labor of love."
A&E Television Networks is a joint venture of The Hearst Corporation, Disney-ABC Television Group and NBC Universal.
In the film, actor Matt Damon observes, "Change doesn't come from the top, but rather from the bottom. Without everyday citizens pushing to make a difference, there would be no America." Damon reads the Declaration of Independence in the production.
But viewers were never told that Zinn favored the imposition of communist dictatorships on the people for whom he was supposedly speaking. And that his commitment, at least when he was a CPUSA member, was to the Soviet Union, not the United States or its founding documents.
However, at the time of the airing of "The People Speak" last December 13, some critics detected something was seriously wrong with the propagandistic effort. Liberal television reviewer Tom Shales of the Washington Post called the film "heavy-handed and agitproppy."
Worse than that, we now know that Zinn had been a secret communist who duped the Hollywood figures and rock stars into playing roles in his Marxist propaganda campaign.
And the campaign continues. "The People Speak" is now being distributed in the form of "The People Speak DVDs," complete with screening kits and gear. Proceeds go to the "Democracy is Not a Spectator Sport" community campaign "dedicated to extending Zinn's vision and inspiring people to stand up and SPEAK OUT."
Although one FBI document says that Zinn's listing on the FBI security index was cancelled in 1955, another document shows Acting FBI director L. Patrick Gray informing the U.S. Secret Service in 1972 that Zinn was "potentially dangerous" because of various factors, including his involvement in groups "engaged in activities inimical to [the] U.S."
Of course, this is not how the "progressives" who idolized Zinn and voted for Obama see it. Dave Zirin wrote in the "progressive" publication The Nation after Zinn's death that he was "a historian who made history" and that "we should strive to build on Howard's work and go out and make some history." He also spoke at the Washington, D.C. tribute to Zinn, calling him "our teacher" and a "fellow fighter for social justice."
Bill Bigelow of the "Rethinking Schools" website said Zinn was "an activist-a socialist, a pacifist, an antiracist, who never strayed from his conviction that humanity was capable of making this a much better world."
That "much better world" turns out to be communism.
While Zinn usually avoided sounding too pro-communist in his public statements, he gave an interview in 2003 defending collaboration with ANSWER, an "anti-war" group sponsored by the communist Workers World Party. "I don't believe in setting political tests for a broad-based movement that is centered on one issue, like ending the war," Zinn said.
He rejected "red-baiting," explaining, "My own attitude is: if there is a demonstration against the war, and I believe in the goal of ending a war, I won't ask who organized the demonstration. You march with people who have signs representing many different groups and ideologies but you are all there for the same purpose, stopping the war. I distrust the sincerity of people who peck away at broad-based movements by pointing to organizers or participants who have special political positions."
He reiterated: "We should not give political tests to people who do good organizing work."
Asked if the "war on terrorism" was "just a cover to perpetuate US global hegemony," Zinn replied, "Exactly. It is also a way to cover up the failure to solve domestic problems and build support for a President who got into office through a political coup and needs to show he has a mandate he doesn't deserve."
Not surprisingly, the Socialist Workers Party and International ANSWER also sent in tributes posted on the official Howard Zinn web page.
On the website of the Center for American Progress, the pro-Obama group funded by billionaire George Soros, Matthew Yglesias conceded the point that Zinn's popular People's History book was "neither good history nor good politics, offering basically nothing in terms of ways to think about solutions to the problems of the world..." But he said it was nevertheless read by "most of the best people" and "that's a pretty impressive achievement."
It is impressive and shocking that so many of these "best people" were taken in by Zinn's secret agenda of installing communist dictatorships in such places as Cuba and Vietnam in the name of "the people."
Now, in death, he may be hoping to see "the people" take power in the United States.
Cliff Kincaid is the Editor of Accuracy in Media, and can be contacted at <!-- e --><a href="mailto:cliff.kincaid@aim.org">cliff.kincaid@aim.org</a><!-- e -->.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
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Howard Zinn is not the only leftist to quietly support communism. This is not shocking to anyone who has a firm understanding of social movements throughout history. The Cold War is over; the red scare is in the past. Let's constructively interpret Zinn's view of history rather then crucifying him on a 'red' cross.2009: Philly 3 & 4
2010: Newark, MSG I
2011: EV Philly
2012: Philly MIA
2013: Wrigley, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Philly 1 & 2, Baltimore0 -
1Post edited by DL136722 onTweeter Center - Aug 29, 2000;Tweeter Center - Aug 30, 2000;Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000;Pepsi Arena - Apr 29, 2003;Bryce-Jordan Center - May 03, 2003;Bell Center - Jun 29, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 02, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 03, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 11, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 05, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 06, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 08, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 09, 2003;TD Banknorth Garden - May 24, 2006;TD Banknorth Garden - May 25, 2006;Fleet Center - Sept 28, 2004;Fleet Center - Sept 29, 2004;Pepsi Arena - May 12, 2006 New England Dodge Music Arena - May 13, 2006;Grant Park - Aug 05, 2007;Bonnaroo - Jun 14, 2008;Dodge Music Center - Jun 27, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 28, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 30, 2008 XL Arena - May 15, 2010;TD Garden - May 17, 2010;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sept 03, 2011;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sep 04, 2011 Corel Centre - Sep 16, 2005;Colisee Pepsi Arena - Sep 20, 2005; Wrigley Field - July 19, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 15, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 16, 2013; Fenway Park - August 5, 2016; Fenway Park - August 7, 2016
Oh Dude!0 -
This is nonsense. Zinn isn't and never was a "communist", hell the USSR and every other alleged communist nation aren't even communist by definition, they're offshoot socialists in practice. Anyways, if you know, read or understand anything Zinn has ever said or written, you'd realize he's no communist by any means of the imagination. It's nothing more than ignorant association, banter and confusion of political terminology. Perhaps all these wingnuts on the right can grasp the difference between socialism and communism before designating others to such?Zinn described himself as “Something of an anarchist, something of a socialist. Maybe a democratic socialist.”[51] He suggested looking at socialism in its full historical context. In Madison, Wisconsin in 2009, Zinn said:
"Let's talk about socialism. I think it's very important to bring back the idea of socialism into the national discussion to where it was at the turn of the [last] century before the Soviet Union gave it a bad name. Socialism had a good name in this country. Socialism had Eugene Debs. It had Clarence Darrow. It had Mother Jones. It had Emma Goldman. It had several million people reading socialist newspapers around the country. Socialism basically said, hey, let's have a kinder, gentler society. Let's share things. Let's have an economic system that produces things not because they're profitable for some corporation, but produces things that people need. People should not be retreating from the word socialism because you have to go beyond capitalism."CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis0 -
Good for him
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surprised that you would make up a thread about Zinn after i mention him in a post to you earlier where you ignored the points i made? hardly surprising at all.prfctlefts wrote:Is anyone even suprised by this ?
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=138259&start=15
and i agree with what five wrote. every word of it.0 -
FiveB247x wrote:This is nonsense. Zinn isn't and never was a "communist", hell the USSR and every other alleged communist nation aren't even communist by definition, they're offshoot socialists in practice. Anyways, if you know, read or understand anything Zinn has ever said or written, you'd realize he's no communist by any means of the imagination. It's nothing more than ignorant association, banter and confusion of political terminology. Perhaps all these wingnuts on the right can grasp the difference between socialism and communism before designating others to such?Zinn described himself as “Something of an anarchist, something of a socialist. Maybe a democratic socialist.”[51] He suggested looking at socialism in its full historical context. In Madison, Wisconsin in 2009, Zinn said:
"Let's talk about socialism. I think it's very important to bring back the idea of socialism into the national discussion to where it was at the turn of the [last] century before the Soviet Union gave it a bad name. Socialism had a good name in this country. Socialism had Eugene Debs. It had Clarence Darrow. It had Mother Jones. It had Emma Goldman. It had several million people reading socialist newspapers around the country. Socialism basically said, hey, let's have a kinder, gentler society. Let's share things. Let's have an economic system that produces things not because they're profitable for some corporation, but produces things that people need. People should not be retreating from the word socialism because you have to go beyond capitalism."
good stuff five
this guy is lost
"It's nothing more than ignorant association, banter and confusion of political terminology."
this perfectly describes every one of perfects' posts
zinn was about peace and equality
not communistic dictatorsThe whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-130 -
2Post edited by DL136722 onTweeter Center - Aug 29, 2000;Tweeter Center - Aug 30, 2000;Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000;Pepsi Arena - Apr 29, 2003;Bryce-Jordan Center - May 03, 2003;Bell Center - Jun 29, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 02, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 03, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 11, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 05, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 06, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 08, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 09, 2003;TD Banknorth Garden - May 24, 2006;TD Banknorth Garden - May 25, 2006;Fleet Center - Sept 28, 2004;Fleet Center - Sept 29, 2004;Pepsi Arena - May 12, 2006 New England Dodge Music Arena - May 13, 2006;Grant Park - Aug 05, 2007;Bonnaroo - Jun 14, 2008;Dodge Music Center - Jun 27, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 28, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 30, 2008 XL Arena - May 15, 2010;TD Garden - May 17, 2010;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sept 03, 2011;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sep 04, 2011 Corel Centre - Sep 16, 2005;Colisee Pepsi Arena - Sep 20, 2005; Wrigley Field - July 19, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 15, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 16, 2013; Fenway Park - August 5, 2016; Fenway Park - August 7, 2016
Oh Dude!0 -
Are you BLIND!ed243421 wrote:FiveB247x wrote:This is nonsense. Zinn isn't and never was a "communist", hell the USSR and every other alleged communist nation aren't even communist by definition, they're offshoot socialists in practice. Anyways, if you know, read or understand anything Zinn has ever said or written, you'd realize he's no communist by any means of the imagination. It's nothing more than ignorant association, banter and confusion of political terminology. Perhaps all these wingnuts on the right can grasp the difference between socialism and communism before designating others to such?Zinn described himself as “Something of an anarchist, something of a socialist. Maybe a democratic socialist.”[51] He suggested looking at socialism in its full historical context. In Madison, Wisconsin in 2009, Zinn said:
"Let's talk about socialism. I think it's very important to bring back the idea of socialism into the national discussion to where it was at the turn of the [last] century before the Soviet Union gave it a bad name. Socialism had a good name in this country. Socialism had Eugene Debs. It had Clarence Darrow. It had Mother Jones. It had Emma Goldman. It had several million people reading socialist newspapers around the country. Socialism basically said, hey, let's have a kinder, gentler society. Let's share things. Let's have an economic system that produces things not because they're profitable for some corporation, but produces things that people need. People should not be retreating from the word socialism because you have to go beyond capitalism."
good stuff five
this guy is lost
"It's nothing more than ignorant association, banter and confusion of political terminology."
this perfectly describes every one of perfects' posts
zinn was about peace and equality
not communistic dictators“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln0 -
...DL136722 wrote:I guess what I'm trying to say is, some people step up and lead by example not standing in front of mics with celebs and getting to talk and talk.
Since this is the main gist of your post... please, provide me some examples of some people who step up and lead by example.
Thanx!Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
From "Rightsidenews"... Hmmmm. That sounds non-partisan and objective. They can't even grant that he was a historian, but had to put "" around it. This piece reeks of bitterness and zeal to smudging the image of a "campus darling" whose "works are force-fed our children" blahblah.
But apart from that, it's no secret for anyone reading his works that he was a bit out there on the left side. Maybe he had some affiliation to parties in the US. So what? Freedom of opinion and freedom of speech, isn't that how it's supposed to go? Or doesn't it count if they have leftist socialist sympathies?
So what's the shock here really? That people in the roaring McCarthy 50s lied to FBI about red sympathies? (Even though the article itself admits that he admitted to being involved with other associated organizations) That Zinn was a pretty hardcore lefty? You'd be surprised how many historians are. Struggling to see the impact of this "news" outside it's hardcore audience of rightwingers who get a rash from the word socialism.
Hell, democrat is probably enough to make a couple of them faint...
Peace
DanPost edited by OutOfBreath on"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 19650 -
3Post edited by DL136722 onTweeter Center - Aug 29, 2000;Tweeter Center - Aug 30, 2000;Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000;Pepsi Arena - Apr 29, 2003;Bryce-Jordan Center - May 03, 2003;Bell Center - Jun 29, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 02, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 03, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 11, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 05, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 06, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 08, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 09, 2003;TD Banknorth Garden - May 24, 2006;TD Banknorth Garden - May 25, 2006;Fleet Center - Sept 28, 2004;Fleet Center - Sept 29, 2004;Pepsi Arena - May 12, 2006 New England Dodge Music Arena - May 13, 2006;Grant Park - Aug 05, 2007;Bonnaroo - Jun 14, 2008;Dodge Music Center - Jun 27, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 28, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 30, 2008 XL Arena - May 15, 2010;TD Garden - May 17, 2010;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sept 03, 2011;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sep 04, 2011 Corel Centre - Sep 16, 2005;Colisee Pepsi Arena - Sep 20, 2005; Wrigley Field - July 19, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 15, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 16, 2013; Fenway Park - August 5, 2016; Fenway Park - August 7, 2016
Oh Dude!0 -
DL136722 wrote:Your a blind follower of Pearl Jam/Eddie Banter! Truth is you're one of those people no matter what the evidence/facts are you will always do what Eddie does - thus a follower. Ask yourself, what did Zinn do for me? What has Obama done for me? I'm not into listening to people talk about problems, I'm all about people shutting their pie holes and just getting it done and I never saw that in Zinn and I don't see it in Obama. I hear lots of talk and no action. If you think I'm wrong, then so be it but I'm a regular guy with a regular job and guys like Zinn and Obama will never fight for regular "joes" like me! They say they fight but when push comes to shove where are they? You have your opinion and I have mine and that's cool but these guys make me feel like if I don't follow them I'm somehow wrong and they've done nothing to make me believe in them. I voted for Obama and I can honestly say it was a mistake - didn't really have a choice, him or McCain, no brainer, but as for Zinn, no runs at the oval office no attempts at senate - one need to ask, if this guy was a man of the people why didn't he get in the ring and fight with the big boys? Why have rallies miles away for the problem? Why not battle face to face, one on one instead of monster rallies and such. Run for an office and let you views be challenged and lets see what he's really made of, but he NEVER did that. It's like Joe Buck the baseball announcer guy taking about a batter swing or a pitcher's throwing motion - it's called you are not a manager and you've never played an inning in you life so just shut up and announce the game. I'm done with this. This is a PJ page and I hate what I'm doing right now - politic talk but stop being a follower and think for yourself and if you have the some conclussion as PJ at least you got there on your own, not Eddie dragging you there by you nose! Peace out be safe!
you DO have a choice, no one forces you to vote for one or the other of the corporate parties but yourselfdon't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
you're disgraceful. Howard Zinn doesn't like this country? He spent his entire life here, he fucking fought for this country in World War II which I'll happily assume is more than you have ever done. He spent his entire life trying to make this country a better place. This country has many problems. You can't fix them by going around talking about how wonderful this country is, you fix it by fucking addressing the problems! This is what the right wing agenda is, any dissenter is a traitor. if you don't follow blindly like you do then you're unamerican and a communist.prfctlefts wrote:Is anyone even suprised by this ? Im not.. I could tell the guy didn't like this country when I watched the people speak. It had nothing positve to say about our country ..
I wonder if Ed will take his last name off his guitar.. I doubt it.
and people think Senator McCarthy is dead? he's alive and well in all of you fools who keep these charades up. what happened to the freedom to associate by the way? i assume we should just take a shit on the constitution.0 -
4Post edited by DL136722 onTweeter Center - Aug 29, 2000;Tweeter Center - Aug 30, 2000;Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000;Pepsi Arena - Apr 29, 2003;Bryce-Jordan Center - May 03, 2003;Bell Center - Jun 29, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 02, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 03, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 11, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 05, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 06, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 08, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 09, 2003;TD Banknorth Garden - May 24, 2006;TD Banknorth Garden - May 25, 2006;Fleet Center - Sept 28, 2004;Fleet Center - Sept 29, 2004;Pepsi Arena - May 12, 2006 New England Dodge Music Arena - May 13, 2006;Grant Park - Aug 05, 2007;Bonnaroo - Jun 14, 2008;Dodge Music Center - Jun 27, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 28, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 30, 2008 XL Arena - May 15, 2010;TD Garden - May 17, 2010;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sept 03, 2011;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sep 04, 2011 Corel Centre - Sep 16, 2005;Colisee Pepsi Arena - Sep 20, 2005; Wrigley Field - July 19, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 15, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 16, 2013; Fenway Park - August 5, 2016; Fenway Park - August 7, 2016
Oh Dude!0 -
lol and what the fuck do you know about the "American way"?DL136722 wrote:Call it what you want - communism or socialism - bottom line either one is NOT the American way.
he was an academic, not a politician. is this what this country has become - where someone is ignored because he didn't run for office? is that the only way you can be considered legitimate in trying to change things? jesus christ, the stupidity in this post runs so deep I don't even know where to begin!The problem is HE blurred the line himself! He chose to align himself with certain "parties" and if people don't want to look at that then that is on you no one else. I've NEVER liked people like him who go one their soap box ranting and raving about political garbage. He was a wealthy college professor at an elite school and had lots of money writing about this crap - he had nothing to lose. Plus if was so amazing and wanting all this change, preeching all the time why didn't he ever make a run at the office? I guess what I'm trying to say is, some people step up and lead by example not standing in front of mics with celebs and getting to talk and talk. Don't be one of those fools who loves PJ's music and their views - not realistc sorry to break it to you. What do Matt Damon, Eddie Vedder and all those other celebs have in common - $! Matt Damon is from rich/wealthy Cambridge, Ma - he's not the guy for Good Will Hunting! DON'T BE A ZOMBIE - HAVE A MIND OF YOUR OWN - LOOK AT BOTH SIDES AND MAKE YOU OWN DECISION - DON'T LET BANDS, ACTORS OR FOX NEW or NBC CONTROL YOU - DON'T BE DUMB! The feds at that time had nothing else to worry about right? The FBI was targeting him? That's what he would want you to believe - DON'T!0 -
DL136722 wrote:Eddie is that you from the 2000 tour? Sounds familiar - you going to put a Bush mask on now and dance to Bushleaguer while you're at it? This is what I mean - never mind we have to agree to disagreee - peace out!
cool, i still disagree that you are not forced to vote for 1 of the 2 corporate parties, that is a conscious decision we all make or don't make but no one forces us.don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'0 -
Firstly, why may an assumption that everyone follows PJ or EV? One has very little to do with the other and anyone who blindly follows a person is an idiot, no matter what side of the spectrum you fall in.
Secondly, the "American way" has nothing to do with anything. We have never, ever preached or followed through on all the high-horse morals and codes we deem to have founded this nation.. whether it's rights for all, freedom or similar. If you think I'm wrong, this article is a great example of such... the government spying on a college professor because they deem him "dangerous"? Get real.
Lastly, other than the association, where is the proof that Zinn is/was a communist and was anti-American? If your definition of anti-american is solely to think for yourself, anti-authority, freedom, human rights and equality amongst race as well as economics not being skewed by a corporate pyramid, than yes I'll gladly be anti-american. The fact is everyone is so patriotic, yet the government, politicians and similar dont give a fuck about anyone or thing else... and when asked about this, no one has answer as to why they're loyal. So I ask you, if the American way is an empty dream in which we don't practice what we preach, what are you defending? A flag? A hypocritical government? An uncaring population? What exactly? Everyone is so gung-ho but doesn't have a real hardline reason why.CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis0 -
5Post edited by DL136722 onTweeter Center - Aug 29, 2000;Tweeter Center - Aug 30, 2000;Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000;Pepsi Arena - Apr 29, 2003;Bryce-Jordan Center - May 03, 2003;Bell Center - Jun 29, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 02, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 03, 2003;Tweeter Center - Jul 11, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 05, 2003;Tweeter Center at the Waterfront - Jul 06, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 08, 2003;Madison Square Garden - Jul 09, 2003;TD Banknorth Garden - May 24, 2006;TD Banknorth Garden - May 25, 2006;Fleet Center - Sept 28, 2004;Fleet Center - Sept 29, 2004;Pepsi Arena - May 12, 2006 New England Dodge Music Arena - May 13, 2006;Grant Park - Aug 05, 2007;Bonnaroo - Jun 14, 2008;Dodge Music Center - Jun 27, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 28, 2008;Tweeter Center - Jun 30, 2008 XL Arena - May 15, 2010;TD Garden - May 17, 2010;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sept 03, 2011;Alpine Valley Music Theatre - Sep 04, 2011 Corel Centre - Sep 16, 2005;Colisee Pepsi Arena - Sep 20, 2005; Wrigley Field - July 19, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 15, 2013; DCU Center - Oct 16, 2013; Fenway Park - August 5, 2016; Fenway Park - August 7, 2016
Oh Dude!0 -
The first thing I look at is the source...and anything coming from a website called "right side news" tells me that it's far from objective, or truthful.
If you want a real debate prfctleft, find a decent website, for bob's sake!0 -
wow....welcome to the train...DL136722 wrote:What the fuck do you know about the American way asshole? My parents immigrated to this country and I've seen first hand what it really takes to become an American. Not these priviledge dickheads like you who don't have the balls to fight for what is right. My point is if he wants to make a change and really have his voice be heard why not do it on a platform where the whole world can hear you considering he is talking about, well, the world. I love coming out here and reading the reactions to dumb assholes like yourself who listen to PJ banter blindly like Stevie Wonder. My problem with you is you try to sound like a tough bad ass on here but I bet if we met in person you would shut the fuck up real fast. You go jerk off to your PJ posters you shit for brains!
word of advice, you would last a lot longer around here if you would just slightly tone down the anger and name calling...i know you are new, i'm just trying to help...most of us have been on here for years and know each other's politics and personalities reasonably well...we are like a big family where not everyone gets along, but we have spirited discussions, which makes it pretty interesting...
zinn did have a platform. he wrote BOOKS that were available for consumption to the entire world. anyone that writes books has a platform. why should he have soiled his reputation by selling his soul and running for office? i am sure his message reached more people that read his books than if he was a senator giving a stump speech. his message would most certainly have been tuned out if he were a politician...."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0
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