i'm confused as to what's happening here...weiner wants to set up a fund for health care for the people that worked at ground zero and now are sick from the air that they breathed and the republicans do not want to pay for any of those people if they were illegals?
no the gop wanted to put in a provision that no funding of any kind goes towards any people that are here illegally for any reason. the dems made a procedural move that the gop could not offer any ammendments to the bill, because all they do is use that procedure as a stalling tactic. the gop adds an ammendment then that gets debated. then before the vote they offer another ammendment that gets debated. what weiner is saying is they will offer all these ammendments in an effort to delay voting as long as possible and then still vote against the bill instead of just being for or against the bill and voting that way. as a result of keeping the gop from making ammendments they had to get a 2/3 majority instead of the simple majority, which they did not get.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i'm confused as to what's happening here...weiner wants to set up a fund for health care for the people that worked at ground zero and now are sick from the air that they breathed and the republicans do not want to pay for any of those people if they were illegals?
no the gop wanted to put in a provision that no funding of any kind goes towards any people that are here illegally for any reason. the dems made a procedural move that the gop could not offer any ammendments to the bill, because all they do is use that procedure as a stalling tactic. the gop adds an ammendment then that gets debated. then before the vote they offer another ammendment that gets debated. what weiner is saying is they will offer all these ammendments in an effort to delay voting as long as possible and then still vote against the bill instead of just being for or against the bill and voting that way. as a result of keeping the gop from making ammendments they had to get a 2/3 majority instead of the simple majority, which they did not get.
ok i understood that originally but watching TriumphantAngel's video it seemed as though they were trying to block this 9/11 money from getting to any illegals who helped with rescue and recovery at ground zero
either way, using amendments to block this money is a pretty sleazy move regardless of what party is doing it but seeing as how the republicans campaign on 9/11 (which is sleazy in it's own right) you would think they would want to pass this
look, i want something to be done about illegal immigration but screwing the people who risked their lives and went to hell to try to save lives ain't one of them
The fact is the people risked their lives to help in one of the most tragic events in recent history... period. Who gives a fuck if they were legal, illegal, caucasian, latino, from Mexico, from Mars... who gives a damn! Their lives changed because they were brave enough to step in and help in a time of need...
There should be no debate on this.
Frankly I find it disgusting that it would take so long to pass something like this.
But I guess in the healthcare-paranoia in your country its not too hard to understand.... :roll:
Bottom line is it shouldn't have taken this long for the responders to get what they need.I wouldn't put anything past the dems right now. They will say anything to make the GOP look bad. I don't believe a damn thing they say bcos all they do is lie. Hannity made weiner look like a fool when he asked him if he had read the bill and he hadn't. If the bill was going to strictly help the responders I'm sure the GOP would have voted for it.
The fact is the people risked their lives to help in one of the most tragic events in recent history... period. Who gives a fuck if they were legal, illegal, caucasian, latino, from Mexico, from Mars... who gives a damn! Their lives changed because they were brave enough to step in and help in a time of need...
There should be no debate on this.
Frankly I find it disgusting that it would take so long to pass something like this.
But I guess in the healthcare-paranoia in your country its not too hard to understand.... :roll:
It's not paranoia. You have your way....high taxes, and we have our way.....less taxes.
Bottom line is it shouldn't have taken this long for the responders to get what they need.I wouldn't put anything past the dems right now. They will say anything to make the GOP look bad. I don't believe a damn thing they say bcos all they do is lie. Hannity made weiner look like a fool when he asked him if he had read the bill and he hadn't. If the bill was going to strictly help the responders I'm sure the GOP would have voted for it.
how can you defend the GOP?
the 9-11 first responders health care bill should have been passed. it's that simple. the republicans wanted to add a illegal alien amendment to the bill. the democratic reps disagreed and offered a 2/3 majority to pass the bill without amendments. the rest is history.
why didn't they just pass it? why use that as a platform to push their illegal alien agenda, the two are not connected.
that is so wrong. i think they have gone too far this time. the GOP will alienate a lot of their supporters because of this. there's hundreds of thousands of responders employed throughout the Country, and although a lot of them were not directly involved with 9/11, they won't forget the way their comrades have been treated.
There's a reason they didn't support this bill and I don't blame them. It's going to create a massive new entitlement program ,it's going to expose tax payers to increased litigation,and it's going to be paid for by tax increases.
If the bll was strictly for the 911 rescuers and not filled with other bull shit put in by the dems I'm sure they would have voted for it. I'm not buying the fact that they couldn't find the money to pay for it with the 4 trillion dollar dollar budget that Obama passed without raising taxes. Just like the jobless benefits.
There's a reason they didn't support this bill and I don't blame them. It's going to create a massive new entitlement program ,it's going to expose tax payers to increased litigation,and it's going to be paid for by tax increases.
If the bll was strictly for the 911 rescuers and not filled with other bull shit put in by the dems I'm sure they would have voted for it. I'm not buying the fact that they couldn't find the money to pay for it with the 4 trillion dollar dollar budget that Obama passed without raising taxes. Just like the jobless benefits.
how do you know this???
are you basing that on fact, assumption, or a blog you might have read that defends the gop instead of calling them for what they are?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
The fact is the people risked their lives to help in one of the most tragic events in recent history... period. Who gives a fuck if they were legal, illegal, caucasian, latino, from Mexico, from Mars... who gives a damn! Their lives changed because they were brave enough to step in and help in a time of need...
There should be no debate on this.
Frankly I find it disgusting that it would take so long to pass something like this.
But I guess in the healthcare-paranoia in your country its not too hard to understand.... :roll:
It's not paranoia. You have your way....high taxes, and we have our way.....less taxes.
If you think we're taxed 40% (as some Americans on this board actually thought) we aren't.
I'm not sure what the difference in taxes is between the US and Canada - and anyways you'd have to compare every state and province. And then every other country that has healthcare.
I think is it Sweden or Norway? One of the countries in that area I've heard get taxed a boat load but has everything paid for - Health, Education, etc. ..Doesn't sound so bad.
edit: "Canada's income tax system is more heavily biased against the highest income earners, thus while Canada's income tax rate is higher on average, the bottom fifty percent of the population is roughly taxed the same on income as in the United States."
according to wiki anywyas
If you think we're taxed 40% (as some Americans on this board actually thought) we aren't.
I'm not sure what the difference in taxes is between the US and Canada - and anyways you'd have to compare every state and province. And then every other country that has healthcare.
I think is it Sweden or Norway? One of the countries in that area I've heard get taxed a boat load but has everything paid for - Health, Education, etc. ..Doesn't sound so bad.
edit: "Canada's income tax system is more heavily biased against the highest income earners, thus while Canada's income tax rate is higher on average, the bottom fifty percent of the population is roughly taxed the same on income as in the United States."
according to wiki anywyas
Sounds like us. Actually i think that goes for all the scandinavian countries. I think a main difference is that most people that make any kind of income pay taxes. The bottom earners dont pay much, but they pay something. (If I have understood it correctly, there are many people in the US that doesnt pay taxes at all because of low income.)
I think the main difference is one of attitude towards the state really. Americans seem frightened to death of anything being run publicly, while we see it as the public's damn responsibility to take care of stuff like healthcare for us. (which we pay taxes for, of course) And we do bitch and moan and act with our votes if something isn't working right. This is not all good, but the state, run by elected politicians, are VERY sensitive towards these things as their jobs depend on it. Those so afraid of the state seems to be forgetting that in a democracy, the state does what we tell our politicians to make it do. Maybe not completely, and probably not all of the time, but nonetheless to an appreciable degree and quite often. (It may be hard for politicians to juggle a "hell no!" to tax with a "fix our damn schools, you fuckers!", but they try)
But really it's all an issue about trust. We trust the government made up of people like ourselves. We trust that our rights and a decent amount of justice is built into the systems. And maybe we just trust eachother more. I dunno. But from this context, alot of american debate on the issue seems insanely hysterical at times. Maybe it's because trust is/has broken down in your system.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Sounds like us. Actually i think that goes for all the scandinavian countries. I think a main difference is that most people that make any kind of income pay taxes. The bottom earners dont pay much, but they pay something. (If I have understood it correctly, there are many people in the US that doesnt pay taxes at all because of low income.)
I think the main difference is one of attitude towards the state really. Americans seem frightened to death of anything being run publicly, while we see it as the public's damn responsibility to take care of stuff like healthcare for us. (which we pay taxes for, of course) And we do bitch and moan and act with our votes if something isn't working right. This is not all good, but the state, run by elected politicians, are VERY sensitive towards these things as their jobs depend on it. Those so afraid of the state seems to be forgetting that in a democracy, the state does what we tell our politicians to make it do. Maybe not completely, and probably not all of the time, but nonetheless to an appreciable degree and quite often. (It may be hard for politicians to juggle a "hell no!" to tax with a "fix our damn schools, you fuckers!", but they try)
But really it's all an issue about trust. We trust the government made up of people like ourselves. We trust that our rights and a decent amount of justice is built into the systems. And maybe we just trust eachother more. I dunno. But from this context, alot of american debate on the issue seems insanely hysterical at times. Maybe it's because trust is/has broken down in your system.
Peace
Dan
I thought it was you!
You beat us out of number 1 country to live in the past few years.
I think that health care is just far too communist for some of them.
They'd rather die in piles of medical bills than from the threat of communism!
Comments
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll491.xml
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
ok i understood that originally but watching TriumphantAngel's video it seemed as though they were trying to block this 9/11 money from getting to any illegals who helped with rescue and recovery at ground zero
either way, using amendments to block this money is a pretty sleazy move regardless of what party is doing it but seeing as how the republicans campaign on 9/11 (which is sleazy in it's own right) you would think they would want to pass this
look, i want something to be done about illegal immigration but screwing the people who risked their lives and went to hell to try to save lives ain't one of them
There should be no debate on this.
Frankly I find it disgusting that it would take so long to pass something like this.
But I guess in the healthcare-paranoia in your country its not too hard to understand.... :roll:
It's not paranoia. You have your way....high taxes, and we have our way.....less taxes.
the 9-11 first responders health care bill should have been passed. it's that simple. the republicans wanted to add a illegal alien amendment to the bill. the democratic reps disagreed and offered a 2/3 majority to pass the bill without amendments. the rest is history.
why didn't they just pass it? why use that as a platform to push their illegal alien agenda, the two are not connected.
that is so wrong. i think they have gone too far this time. the GOP will alienate a lot of their supporters because of this. there's hundreds of thousands of responders employed throughout the Country, and although a lot of them were not directly involved with 9/11, they won't forget the way their comrades have been treated.
If the bll was strictly for the 911 rescuers and not filled with other bull shit put in by the dems I'm sure they would have voted for it. I'm not buying the fact that they couldn't find the money to pay for it with the 4 trillion dollar dollar budget that Obama passed without raising taxes. Just like the jobless benefits.
are you basing that on fact, assumption, or a blog you might have read that defends the gop instead of calling them for what they are?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I'm not sure what the difference in taxes is between the US and Canada - and anyways you'd have to compare every state and province. And then every other country that has healthcare.
I think is it Sweden or Norway? One of the countries in that area I've heard get taxed a boat load but has everything paid for - Health, Education, etc. ..Doesn't sound so bad.
edit: "Canada's income tax system is more heavily biased against the highest income earners, thus while Canada's income tax rate is higher on average, the bottom fifty percent of the population is roughly taxed the same on income as in the United States."
according to wiki anywyas
Sounds like us.
I think the main difference is one of attitude towards the state really. Americans seem frightened to death of anything being run publicly, while we see it as the public's damn responsibility to take care of stuff like healthcare for us. (which we pay taxes for, of course) And we do bitch and moan and act with our votes if something isn't working right. This is not all good, but the state, run by elected politicians, are VERY sensitive towards these things as their jobs depend on it. Those so afraid of the state seems to be forgetting that in a democracy, the state does what we tell our politicians to make it do. Maybe not completely, and probably not all of the time, but nonetheless to an appreciable degree and quite often. (It may be hard for politicians to juggle a "hell no!" to tax with a "fix our damn schools, you fuckers!", but they try)
But really it's all an issue about trust. We trust the government made up of people like ourselves. We trust that our rights and a decent amount of justice is built into the systems. And maybe we just trust eachother more. I dunno. But from this context, alot of american debate on the issue seems insanely hysterical at times. Maybe it's because trust is/has broken down in your system.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
You beat us out of number 1 country to live in the past few years.
I think that health care is just far too communist for some of them.
They'd rather die in piles of medical bills than from the threat of communism!
saw that that last night...
funny and sad at the same time...
Hail, Hail!!!