Afgan War Wikileaks

FiveB247x

Some interesting stuff here... but we could have probably predicted half of these types of consequences and poor actions prior too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26warlogs.html?no_interstitial

StillHere

FiveB247x wrote:

Some interesting stuff here... but we could have probably predicted half of these types of consequences and poor actions prior too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26warlogs.html?no_interstitial

I find it quite telling that we don't hear a lot more than we do about the war in Afghanistan, really.
They're always wagging the dog .... something more important is always overshadowing Afghanistan...

the oil explosion/spill
Korea
Unemployment (oh I know, I'm a 99er!)

Sure, its ALL important stuff...and its all talked about on a daily basis.
but why doesn't anyone talk about what really goes on in Afghanistan?
A little shaky, isn't it?

gimmesometruth27

FiveB247x wrote:

Some interesting stuff here... but we could have probably predicted half of these types of consequences and poor actions prior too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26warlogs.html?no_interstitial

so when is the guy that leaked these going to jail?

to me it is fucked up that we prosecute the whistleblower, yet those that commit the acts roam free....

either way, after reading some of this stuff from other articles, i think it is time we get out of there asap...

StillHere

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Some interesting stuff here... but we could have probably predicted half of these types of consequences and poor actions prior too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26warlogs.html?no_interstitial

so when is the guy that leaked these going to jail?

to me it is fucked up that we prosecute the whistleblower, yet those that commit the acts roam free....

either way, after reading some of this stuff from other articles, i think it is time we get out of there asap...

why should anyone go to jail for telling it like it is
just because someone else doesn't want them to tell it like it is????
right

fuck

StillHere wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Some interesting stuff here... but we could have probably predicted half of these types of consequences and poor actions prior too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26warlogs.html?no_interstitial

I find it quite telling that we don't hear a lot more than we do about the war in Afghanistan, really.
They're always wagging the dog .... something more important is always overshadowing Afghanistan...

the oil explosion/spill
Korea
Unemployment (oh I know, I'm a 99er!)

Sure, its ALL important stuff...and its all talked about on a daily basis.
but why doesn't anyone talk about what really goes on in Afghanistan?
A little shaky, isn't it?

because Americans don't give a fuck!

StillHere

_outlaw wrote:

StillHere wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Some interesting stuff here... but we could have probably predicted half of these types of consequences and poor actions prior too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26warlogs.html?no_interstitial

I find it quite telling that we don't hear a lot more than we do about the war in Afghanistan, really.
They're always wagging the dog .... something more important is always overshadowing Afghanistan...

the oil explosion/spill
Korea
Unemployment (oh I know, I'm a 99er!)

Sure, its ALL important stuff...and its all talked about on a daily basis.
but why doesn't anyone talk about what really goes on in Afghanistan?
A little shaky, isn't it?

because Americans don't give a fuck!

that is not at all fair..i do...give a f&^k that is

Pepe Silvia

StillHere wrote:

_outlaw wrote:

StillHere wrote:

I find it quite telling that we don't hear a lot more than we do about the war in Afghanistan, really.
They're always wagging the dog .... something more important is always overshadowing Afghanistan...

the oil explosion/spill
Korea
Unemployment (oh I know, I'm a 99er!)

Sure, its ALL important stuff...and its all talked about on a daily basis.
but why doesn't anyone talk about what really goes on in Afghanistan?
A little shaky, isn't it?

because Americans don't give a fuck!

that is not at all fair..i do...give a f&^k that is

as a whole we don't give a fuck. as a country we don't demand anything from our elected representatives. we vote to keep the other guy out basically and look the other way and rationalize 'my guy's doing some pretty shitty things but at least he's not that other guy!' which is pure bullshit. last election i kept hearing about supreme court nominees and we need obama picking them, not mccain....and then obama picks someone that wrote a brief defending monsanto as solicitor general when the us government wasn't even involved in the case, was on a goldman sachs advisory panel for a few years, supports the indefinite detention of suspected terrorists....if this had been a pick by bush i'd have received fliers like i did about roberts asking for help in lobbying to have him rejected and yet all you hear is misinformation like she banned recruiters from harvard (which is a lie but repeated by chris matthews and others), she might be a lesbian....

what would have changed had clinton won the election? she pushed for health care reform, too. i really think the crumbs democrats throw their base would be thrown regardless which of them had won, except maybe kucinich. appease the base to keep their support keeping the other team out. it's argued the health care reform is good for now but that is far from what obama marketed himself as for nearly 4 years. especially when they campaigned AGAINST a public option when it could have passed and been sent to obama to be signed. i really don't think he ever intended to push for a public option just like it was proven he never intended to do anything about NAFTA and it turns out his anti-NAFTA talk really was nothing but political posturing.

the day i see the majority of the country actually demand something from politicians will be the day i believe we give a fuck. sure individually many, many people do but not nearly enough



and as for why would the whistleblower be jailed i don't think gimmesometruth really thinks that, he is pointing out the solider who supposedly leaked the stuff to wikileaks has been snatched up and imprisoned a month or more ago and the head of wikileaks is wanted by the us government for questioning.

Cosmo

I understand why certain things are kept classified in the military... that whole, 'Loose Lips Sink Ships' thing, because you don't want everyone to know battle plans that may result in the deaths of our troops. But, past shit... I think Americans should know of the realities of what America has gotten herself into. I believe we should know about U.S. troops killing unarmed captive soldiers in 1944 and about villages our troops burned in SouthEast Asia... and we should know about major fuck ups that occured in 2003.
I know the excuse of harming troop morale always crops up... but, don't you think the poeple who aready know of the fuck ups in Afghanistan... are the people already deployed in Afghanistan? They already been through the bullshit of lack of resources because everything was focused on Iraq. That's why Afghanistan is in its current condition.. NEGLECT. Going into Iraq was probably the biggest military/political fuck up in our history... we had an opportunity to turn it around for Afghanistan... but, blew it... big time.
It's about time America realizes that the 'Just Cause' in 2002 has become a Lost Cause in 2010. I have felt this way since 2003 when we decided to 'Shock and Awe' Baghdad. Afghanistan was the lynch pin... always has been. But, we fucked up and now... it's time to write off our losses and come up with a Plan B.
...
And if you are going to try to feed me the, "Then the guys who gave their lives over there, died in vain?" piece of shit excuse... My answer is YES... They died in vain because we were too busy with other shit that to give a shit about them. War is fucked up... if you believe war is all John Wayne/Bullshit glorious... then, why the fuck aren't you in a goddamn uniform in Kabul? There is NOTHING glorious about a politician giving you an order to kill or die.

gimmesometruth27

StillHere wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Some interesting stuff here... but we could have probably predicted half of these types of consequences and poor actions prior too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26warlogs.html?no_interstitial

so when is the guy that leaked these going to jail?

to me it is fucked up that we prosecute the whistleblower, yet those that commit the acts roam free....

either way, after reading some of this stuff from other articles, i think it is time we get out of there asap...

why should anyone go to jail for telling it like it is
just because someone else doesn't want them to tell it like it is????
right

i was referring to the prior wikileaks story where the classified footage shows soldiers wasting civilians. instead of arresting those responsible for the massacre, the government prosecuted the man who leaked the footage...he was arrested last week and his trial is still pending...

StillHere

as a response to the last poster...we've been slaughtering children, citizens, hell, entire villages, for decades upon decades....
and back to the previous note....
personally i don't believe we need a war in Afghanistan, and haven't for a long long time. we've completely blown our credibility all over the world, and not just with Afghanistan, but with most of our military endeavors since the 60s.
Russia/USSR? the cold war? the Cuban missile crisis? Noriega? Korea? Cambodia (o no we were NEVER in Cambodia right?) Laos? Vietnam? Iraq? Kuwait? Iraq again? Iran? Afghanistan? Korea again/still? Pakistan? the list goes on and on and on
what's it really all about?
think about each of those eras and what was going on in our country/government that needed to be overshadowed by some larger crisis?
and the point of going into Afghanistan? as told to us? bin laden?
Oh wait, we were told that was our reason for going into Iraq too, wasn't it?
right, almost forgot..so which is it?
i don't believe there is any one truth.
i don't believe in conspiracy theories either but i sure don't believe much of what's being spooonfed to us
so...if the pretense is bin laden, then all we need are a couple of special forces teams, a drone or two, a little bit of an armory, gps you know, NASA quality satellite photography, and that's it. he'll i could probably find him with Google earth for god's sake!
that crap about him always being one step ahead, living out of caves, and now crossing over into Pakistan, or wherever the heck they tell us he is today, well that's just what it is...crap.
if we wanted him we would have had him from the get go
Not to mention that he's one of the wealthiest men in the world...like he doesn't have any help, right? And he isn't capable of paying off some high ranking secret agent guys to protect him either? (that, he might need to do if we were actually after him..but he most likely still has to protect himself from the mercenary type guys who want to be handsomely paid for bin laden's hide.)
bin laden may have claimed responsibility for many acts of terrorism, but the fact is, (IMO)i believe, we don't want him any more than we want mickey mouse to rot in a pit.
the bushes and the bin ladens have been business partners and fellow oil conglomerate tycoon buddies for three generations, and i don't care if bin laden is the black sheep of the family, you can be absolutely sure that daddy bin laden and granddaddy bush have made a pact to never touch a single hair on poor little osama's head.
so, why are we really there?
and why are we constantly threatening Iran? because of Israel? then what does Israel do to help itself...nothing but the worst idea ever.
then of course there's Korea..again.
and if you for one second believe that we are no longer in Laos, Cambodia or Vietnam, think again.
the whole thing is a farce.
Americans are the first to cry out against China and the former USSR and other regimes who lie and keep things from their citizens.
but we fail miserably at recognizing the simple fact that we are in the same boat.
and it's all going down.
sorry for the dismal view.
but really...people...just open your eyes and ears.
wagging the dog
its always always always about wagging the dog
if you wag the dog, you ignore the all important tail
all of a sudden Afghanistan is top news?
leaks have gone on forever about everything
we only hear about them when either our beloved government...and/or the media has a reason to tell us about it
so we're all unemployed
stocks tumbling
businesses bankrupt
homes in foreclosure
dollar worth practically nil
oil ? well you know all about oil
the environment (is that real?)
global warming (is that real too?) (ya, i know, i know, just saying)
the tea party? might as well be the mighty militia coming to life
no unemployment...that's right I'm a 99er
no food on the table (o wait there are no poverty stricken families in the great United States of America, I nearly forgot)
can't afford college
and what does college really get you anymore anyway? surely not a JOB!
then there's DC...and what are we afraid of in DC? democracy? the GOP? socialism? capitalism? what? who knows what it even is any more.
like i said
wagging the dog

silkroad

While there is probably a lot of truth in what was leaked, I think the potential harm to our troops and the civilians who are already in harms way done by the leak was irresponsible.

Cosmo

silkroad wrote:

While there is probably a lot of truth in what was leaked, I think the potential harm to our troops and the civilians who are already in harms way done by the leak was irresponsible.

...
Harm? What harm? They already are facing an unreliable force they are trainning to become the Afghan Security Force... sporadic R.P.G attacks... roadside bombs... what 'Harm' can they face that is worse than the shithole they are already in?

silkroad

By futher enraging the Taliban to unleash even more deadly attacks. It's medieval over there.

fuck

silkroad wrote:

While there is probably a lot of truth in what was leaked, I think the potential harm to our troops and the civilians who are already in harms way done by the leak was irresponsible.

if you want our troops out of harm's way, get them out of afghanistan.

Cosmo

silkroad wrote:

By futher enraging the Taliban to unleash even more deadly attacks. It's medieval over there.

...
They are already enraged.
The best bet for America... is to admit we made a HUGE fucking mistake and get out of there.

gimmesometruth27

Cosmo wrote:

silkroad wrote:

By futher enraging the Taliban to unleash even more deadly attacks. It's medieval over there.

...
They are already enraged.
The best bet for America... is to admit we made a HUGE fucking mistake and get out of there.

what he and _outlaw said...

Pepe Silvia

silkroad wrote:

By futher enraging the Taliban to unleash even more deadly attacks. It's medieval over there.

and this is what happens when you sweep things under the rug and do nothing about it....

On 16 June, three more of 1st Platoon's men – Private First Class Thomas Tucker, Specialist David Babineau and Private First Class Kristian Menchaca were attacked on guard. Babineau was killed, the others captured. Three days later they were found, murdered, burnt and mutilated. When Yribe heard, he lost it. "It drives me crazy," he said to Private First Class Justin Watt, "that all the good men die and the shitbag murderers like Green are home eating hamburgers."

4 soldiers raped and murdered a 14 year old along with her parents and 6 year old sister then poured kerosene on her body and burned the house down. the soldier that killed all 4 confessed but the military chose to do nothing about it for a while....and so a mad group took revenge into their own hands since the us seemed to not care...is that what you want?

Cosmo

The thing about Afghanistan... all you really need to do is apply a little simple logic to the equation.
First, looks at some of the facts:
A. The Taliban was originally set up by Pakistan's ISI (CIA equivilent) after the Soviet withdrawal to establish a nation founded in Shria Law.
B. Usama was the most popular name given to Pakistani males born after September 11, 2001.
C. Afghanistan's most lucrative export was Opium.
D. Afghanistan was basically run by tribal warlords selling opium.
...
With those things in mind... The U.S. shipped billions of dollars and tons of weapons into Pakistan, specifically President Musharaff, who rose to power in a military coup to overthrow a democratically elected leader. Now, maybe Musharaff wanted to get Usama bin Laden... but, do you think the Pakistani foot soldiers who named their kids Usama that were tasked to capturing Bin laden... were looking real hard to find him?
And what about the Afghani troops we are trainning? What do you think they will do when they are placed under the command of former Afghani opium warlords who have been promoted to officer's ranks in the Afghan security forces?
And did we REALLY believe that we could convince opium warlords to stop growing lucrative opium... in favor of growing wheat and corn... that would have to compete with the U.S. in wheat and corn exports? I mean, what is does a kilo of corn go for on the black market... is it more than a kilo of heroin?
...
Now... we act all surprized to discover that the ISI is funding insurgents to fight our troops... with money and weapons.... supplied BY THE U.S!!!
We enlist opium warlords to fight the Taliban and reward them with government and military positions... then are shocked when they expand their opium trade.
...
What I want to know... WHO were the advisors to former President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Rice on all of this? And why did these people listen to them? Didn't any of them know all of these things? Why were these thing considered to be classified?
My guess... to keep us from knowing how fucked up that place is. All we hear about is how great things are going... about a girl's school opening and has an enrollment of 37 students... but, not that our troops are going out on patrols with former Taliban fighters.
...
Time to accept the monumental miscaclulation on the part of our civilian and military leadership and bring our troops home.

Commy

StillHere wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Some interesting stuff here... but we could have probably predicted half of these types of consequences and poor actions prior too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26warlogs.html?no_interstitial

I find it quite telling that we don't hear a lot more than we do about the war in Afghanistan, really.
They're always wagging the dog .... something more important is always overshadowing Afghanistan...

the oil explosion/spill
Korea
Unemployment (oh I know, I'm a 99er!)

Sure, its ALL important stuff...and its all talked about on a daily basis.
but why doesn't anyone talk about what really goes on in Afghanistan?
A little shaky, isn't it?

Evidence of a state propaganda machine.



Maybe not in and of itself.......sure you have a story where the gov't authority is bombing some helpless third world country and sending good people off to die (and killing them) and nobody is telling it...that's not evidence of propaganda by itself. But when you compare that to similar stories in the past 40 years or so.....its always the same. Or when you compare media coverage of an invasion carried out by an official enemy to a US sponsored one....there's your evidence or propaganda. And people have done that.


What makes it worse is things like the invasion of Iraq never needed to happen. Were our journalists responsible, if they had done their fucking jobs countless thousands would still be alive today. That's the real story, that journalistic cowardice can be counted in human lives.

Pepe Silvia

Cosmo wrote:

The thing about Afghanistan... all you really need to do is apply a little simple logic to the equation.
First, looks at some of the facts:
A. The Taliban was originally set up by Pakistan's ISI (CIA equivilent) after the Soviet withdrawal to establish a nation founded in Shria Law.
B. Usama was the most popular name given to Pakistani males born after September 11, 2001.
C. Afghanistan's most lucrative export was Opium.
D. Afghanistan was basically run by tribal warlords selling opium.
...
With those things in mind... The U.S. shipped billions of dollars and tons of weapons into Pakistan, specifically President Musharaff, who rose to power in a military coup to overthrow a democratically elected leader. Now, maybe Musharaff wanted to get Usama bin Laden... but, do you think the Pakistani foot soldiers who named their kids Usama that were tasked to capturing Bin laden... were looking real hard to find him?
And what about the Afghani troops we are trainning? What do you think they will do when they are placed under the command of former Afghani opium warlords who have been promoted to officer's ranks in the Afghan security forces?
And did we REALLY believe that we could convince opium warlords to stop growing lucrative opium... in favor of growing wheat and corn... that would have to compete with the U.S. in wheat and corn exports? I mean, what is does a kilo of corn go for on the black market... is it more than a kilo of heroin?
...
Now... we act all surprized to discover that the ISI is funding insurgents to fight our troops... with money and weapons.... supplied BY THE U.S!!!
We enlist opium warlords to fight the Taliban and reward them with government and military positions... then are shocked when they expand their opium trade.
...
What I want to know... WHO were the advisors to former President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Rice on all of this? And why did these people listen to them? Didn't any of them know all of these things? Why were these thing considered to be classified?
My guess... to keep us from knowing how fucked up that place is. All we hear about is how great things are going... about a girl's school opening and has an enrollment of 37 students... but, not that our troops are going out on patrols with former Taliban fighters.
...
Time to accept the monumental miscaclulation on the part of our civilian and military leadership and bring our troops home.

wasn't there a story a few years ago about how we spent a good bit of money on things like matchbooks with reward info on osama to be distributed in pakistan but never were?

google Ahmed Wali Karzai, the president's brother, and opium or heroin....not only is he a major heroin trafficker and not only is he able to make calls or have his brother's office make calls and get heroin seized by the military released but he is on the cia payroll....so once again we have the cia being involved in drug trafficking.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world ... intel.html

KABUL, Afghanistan — Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the Afghan president and a suspected player in the country’s booming illegal opium trade, gets regular payments from the Central Intelligence Agency, and has for much of the past eight years, according to current and former American officials.

The agency pays Mr. Karzai for a variety of services, including helping to recruit an Afghan paramilitary force that operates at the C.I.A.’s direction in and around the southern city of Kandahar, Mr. Karzai’s home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/world ... wanted=all

WASHINGTON — When Afghan security forces found an enormous cache of heroin hidden beneath concrete blocks in a tractor-trailer outside Kandahar in 2004, the local Afghan commander quickly impounded the truck and notified his boss.

Before long, the commander, Habibullah Jan, received a telephone call from Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of President Hamid Karzai, asking him to release the vehicle and the drugs, Mr. Jan later told American investigators, according to notes from the debriefing obtained by The New York Times. He said he complied after getting a phone call from an aide to President Karzai directing him to release the truck.

Two years later, American and Afghan counternarcotics forces stopped another truck, this time near Kabul, finding more than 110 pounds of heroin. Soon after the seizure, United States investigators told other American officials that they had discovered links between the drug shipment and a bodyguard believed to be an intermediary for Ahmed Wali Karzai, according to a participant in the briefing.

The assertions about the involvement of the president’s brother in the incidents were never investigated, according to American and Afghan officials, even though allegations that he has benefited from narcotics trafficking have circulated widely in Afghanistan.

Both President Karzai and Ahmed Wali Karzai, now the chief of the Kandahar Provincial Council, the governing body for the region that includes Afghanistan’s second largest city, dismiss the allegations as politically motivated attacks by longtime foes.

and we can't account for 95% of the money spent in iraq???

StillHere

playing cards

the top 3 were executed i think

its all a big game

wagging the dog

if you've never seen the movie
"wagging the dog"
you ought to