why would it be a problem?
we can build higher fences
we can use deer deflectors alongside the roadways
ok if you need food for your family
then go ahead and hunt
if you want a trophy on your rec room wall
stay home
or get into paper mache for pete's sake
make a nice looking elk head or whatever
otherwise, as in everything else in this world
mother nature will take care of things
in her own way
in her own time
i know most of you probably disagree vehemently
but that's how i roll
i'm not vegan, not even vegetarian
just believe that we should not take more
from nature than we need
Ask the large number of people (who are still alive) who've hit deer with their car, and that's with hunting being LEGAL, if they think that hunting should be outlawed. There would be many more fatalities without hunting. (that's the deer being killed, too) Deer simply don't stay behind fencing; they're wild animals. They will find a way. And you really think fencing is good for them any way?
In a neighboring city, they have an overpopulation of ducks, because people feel the need to FEED THEM, forcing them to multiply and overflow into busy city streets. And that's with signs everywhere stating NOT to feed the ducks. Animals do best when eating their natural food, but people just can't help but feed them food that's not good for their digestive systems. I actually have said to people feeding them, that if they care about these animals, they wouldn't feed them "people" food.
I had a beaver problem on my property last summer. It damned up my pond which flooded the area. What do I do? I call the DEC and ask for a humane way of moving the pest. They tell me to shoot it because there is no "safe" place to move it. Beavers cause destruction everywhere. And when there's an overpopulation of them, it doesn't help people, nor the animals themselves. It's a double-edged sword. And that goes for human overpopulation, too. We'll soon find out.
Several things.....We removed the wolf and the mountain lion from east of the Mississippi....long before any of us were even born....no wolf and no puma (aka mountain lion) is good news/bad news for the white-tailed deer population....unchecked reproduction....until they scrub the local area clean of vegetation....which can lead to starvation, unhealthy living conditions and outbreaks of disease....which can drive a population to zero faster than any humans with guns. In fact, this is similar to what happened at the end of the 19th and onset of the 20th century....white-tailed deer were almost extinct in the eastern US....until game management laws were enacted..yes, this means regulated hunting.....this management has lead to a deer population that is dangerously high in some regions, but it beats the alternative.
Canada Geese.....that icon of avian fall migration.....those beautiful vee formations honking their way through the crisp autumn air....well, they have discovered the post-WWII suburban landscape....and guess what...it's optimal conditions for them....so, fewer and fewer geese are migrating every year....because they are becoming year-round residents in areas where they were uncommon in the past. Check the Audubon Society Christmas Bird Counts....more and more and more Canada Geese are being counted in late December in places where they would have left in years past. This combined with a decrease in hunting has lead to this issue of too many Canada Geese in many locations. It sucks that so many have to die in these slaughters...but something has to be done to avoid conditions that lead to a complete crash in the population (e.g. disease out-break).
Beavers....another game management success story...once on the edge of extinction...now seemingly everywhere.....near impossible to trap and remove according to everyone I have talked to about the critters...too smart for human traps
thanks tybird
not to be wise..but did you know that there are still a few mountain lions and coyotes on jugtown mountain in NW NJ?
yup, sure are
they are beautiful...elusive..but breathtaking when you finally see one
peace,
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
Hello all- a liitle late to the topic but as a pilot I'd like to add some things.
First, there's really nothing that can be done to the planes to make them less susceptable to bird strikes. There are some pretty dramatic things you could do but it would be way too costly and no aircraft maker would ever do it. You could never really screen the engines for instance. Currently the only method in use is to paint the spinners on the engines a spiral pattern which supposedly alerts the birds sooner but I don't know if it really works that well.
The only promising new technology is a new type of radar that can detect larger birds or large flocks of small birds and the controllers can divert the planes around/above/below them. If the bird strike problem is severe enough this might actually be put into use.
And the Hudson birds were geese. They have a very extensive library of feathers that they can match to an accident to determine what type of bird it was.
The real problem with birds is that they're just not equipped to avoid the planes. Typically small birds will dive out of the way and large birds will either roll or quickly change direction to avoid an attack. They all perceive an airplane to be an attacking predator and try to get away but with the closure rates being so high they simply don't have time to see, decide, and act.
From my point of view I would rather see some type of balance between avaoidance and route management as opposed to threat abolishment (bird killing).
Hello all- a liitle late to the topic but as a pilot I'd like to add some things.
First, there's really nothing that can be done to the planes to make them less susceptable to bird strikes. There are some pretty dramatic things you could do but it would be way too costly and no aircraft maker would ever do it. You could never really screen the engines for instance. Currently the only method in use is to paint the spinners on the engines a spiral pattern which supposedly alerts the birds sooner but I don't know if it really works that well.
The only promising new technology is a new type of radar that can detect larger birds or large flocks of small birds and the controllers can divert the planes around/above/below them. If the bird strike problem is severe enough this might actually be put into use.
And the Hudson birds were geese. They have a very extensive library of feathers that they can match to an accident to determine what type of bird it was.
The real problem with birds is that they're just not equipped to avoid the planes. Typically small birds will dive out of the way and large birds will either roll or quickly change direction to avoid an attack. They all perceive an airplane to be an attacking predator and try to get away but with the closure rates being so high they simply don't have time to see, decide, and act.
From my point of view I would rather see some type of balance between avaoidance and route management as opposed to threat abolishment (bird killing).
+1
thank you thank you thank you
peace,
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
I'd like to add that the actual Hudson bird strike did occur within five miles of the takeoff point and that although the article states there were 78 bird strikes in the last 10 years this figure can not be correct. There may have been 78 strikes to one type of operator during one type of operation. I would estimate that in the New York area in the last ten years there were closer to 1000 to 2000 bird strikes, most of which were not reported. I myself have had ten bird strikes that I know of, three of which were large birds (hawk or larger). Only small damage, no danger but also no engine injestion.
This article seems fishy to me. The feds don't really care too much about wildlife mitigation outside of the airport boundary and to imply that all the bird removals were due to possible bird strikes doesn't sit with me. If anything I would say someone is adding this to help justify the removal for another reason that wouldn't sit as well with the public. Geese can be extremely damaging to park lands and are also very mean. This is not good for tourism- for instance.
I'd like to add that the actual Hudson bird strike did occur within five miles of the takeoff point and that although the article states there were 78 bird strikes in the last 10 years this figure can not be correct. There may have been 78 strikes to one type of operator during one type of operation. I would estimate that in the New York area in the last ten years there were closer to 1000 to 2000 bird strikes, most of which were not reported. I myself have had ten bird strikes that I know of, three of which were large birds (hawk or larger). Only small damage, no danger but also no engine injestion.
This article seems fishy to me. The feds don't really care too much about wildlife mitigation outside of the airport boundary and to imply that all the bird removals were due to possible bird strikes doesn't sit with me. If anything I would say someone is adding this to help justify the removal for another reason that wouldn't sit as well with the public. Geese can be extremely damaging to park lands and are also very mean. This is not good for tourism- for instance.
i'm assuming you are a pilot?
there is really so much danger from geese?
i agree that its political more than safety-oriented
and it just shouldn't be done. period.
peace,
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
The patterns of geese sure seemed to have changed somewhat. About 15-20 years ago there were absolutely 0 geese in my area. Today, every puddle you see has several huddled around it. I would say that from my perspective they seem to be encroaching on humans more than the humans are encroaching on them.
Of course, they were probably driven here from somewhere else that they were being encroached upon, but there definitely seem to be tons of them these days.
Do they have any predators besides humans?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
why would it be a problem?
we can build higher fences
we can use deer deflectors alongside the roadways
ok if you need food for your family
then go ahead and hunt
if you want a trophy on your rec room wall
stay home
or get into paper mache for pete's sake
make a nice looking elk head or whatever
otherwise, as in everything else in this world
mother nature will take care of things
in her own way
in her own time
i know most of you probably disagree vehemently
but that's how i roll
i'm not vegan, not even vegetarian
just believe that we should not take more
from nature than we need
thanks tybird
not to be wise..but did you know that there are still a few mountain lions and coyotes on jugtown mountain in NW NJ?
yup, sure are
they are beautiful...elusive..but breathtaking when you finally see one
Coyotes are not apex predators of the same magnitude as wolves....in other words, they do not exert control over a deer population....outside of taking a few fawns. The coyote has expanded its range in my lifetime to include much of the eastern US. They were able to do this because there are no wolves to check their grow.
The eastern mountain lion debate is actually quite heated among wildlife experts. Most say that the mountain lion is extinct east of the Mississippi (outside the state of Florida). These same people claim that sightings in the east are probably former pets that were released. The mountain lion management plan for the US does not include or list any populations not in the west. I know that there are a large number of reported sightings here in the east, but I am not an expert....I just have what the experts say to go on.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
The patterns of geese sure seemed to have changed somewhat. About 15-20 years ago there were absolutely 0 geese in my area. Today, every puddle you see has several huddled around it. I would say that from my perspective they seem to be encroaching on humans more than the humans are encroaching on them.
Of course, they were probably driven here from somewhere else that they were being encroached upon, but there definitely seem to be tons of them these days.
Do they have any predators besides humans?
Once full-grown, a Canada Goose doesn't have an abundance of predators.....various canine species may take the young, birds of prey may also take a youngster every now and then.....young ducks, and possibly very young geese, do get taken by turtles while swimming. I suspect some of the smaller mammals will and do take the eggs if unguarded.
It's not so much that they are being driven from anywhere....they have found the optimal habitat (suburban U.S.) and have hunkered down for the long haul.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Am I correct in assuming that, once airborne, they have no predators? I'm curious because when dealing with planes they don't behave like smaller birds. They tend to roll and change directions but not dive.
Am I correct in assuming that, once airborne, they have no predators? I'm curious because when dealing with planes they don't behave like smaller birds. They tend to roll and change directions but not dive.
I would not say absolutely no predators while airborne...a larger bird of prey could take a run at them, but I would suspect that would be pretty rare. I would suspect that their actions during flight have as much do with aerodynamic differences than predator avoidance. Canada Geese are built on very different airframe than smaller birds, and they carry a good deal more weight when compared to their distant relatives. Canada geese weigh between 3 1/2 to 9.8 lbs, while a Mallard duck only averages about 2.4 lbs. A Red-tailed hawk only averages about 2.4 lbs. The smallest average length of a Canada goose is still a couple of inches longer than the average Mallard. So, it may simply be that their body design requires them to fly differently.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Interesting point. I think it has more to do with predator evasion than mass. Small birds always dive, larger predators (hawks, eagles, falcons) tend to start flapping and change direction while climbing and vultures don't do anything. Geese have some wierd rolling motion that I think is designed to confuse. In fact, in large groups it can be tough to figure out where they'll go. It may be that they aren't able to fold their wings quickly enough to dive but I don't know.
This all makes it tough to avoid the larger birds because when you see small birds ahead you climb, knowing they will descend.
Interesting point. I think it has more to do with predator evasion than mass. Small birds always dive, larger predators (hawks, eagles, falcons) tend to start flapping and change direction while climbing and vultures don't do anything. Geese have some wierd rolling motion that I think is designed to confuse. In fact, in large groups it can be tough to figure out where they'll go. It may be that they aren't able to fold their wings quickly enough to dive but I don't know.
This all makes it tough to avoid the larger birds because when you see small birds ahead you climb, knowing they will descend.
Interesting points...have not seen much in the literature about changes in flight among different species as viewed from the air...other than what is used to make field I.D. from the ground.
Vultures are known as poor "fliers".....they soar on the thermals for the majority of their flight. Due to their body plan, they will use too energy if required to flap for extended periods of time.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Where I live in Oregon, the Parks and Rec dept have been gassing the geese and giving them to the homeless shelters for food..If you want to read this ongoing saga, pull up The Bulletin, or The Source Weekly..The crazies even had a vigil for the dead geese and asked the community if they have geese to bring them out to repopulate..its an on going fight here in town..
I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me...GUARANTEED!
I don't really agree with the sport of it either, but I understand that a lot of people like venison. (not me)
And I understand the need to hunt deer otherwise overpopulation would bring problems for the deer and us. Cold winters lead deer to dying from starvation.
I completely disagree with the "sport" of hunting, if you want to call it a sport. Trophy hunts should be completely illegal.
But I agree with you about the deer. If people are hunting the deer and eating them, I have no problem with this.
I don't like when they stand over them and hold up their antlers and smugly take photos of them... its nothing to brag about, killing an animal with your automatic rifle and acting like some sort of champion for it. If you hunt them as a source of food, that's fine. More humane than a slaughter house. You don't have to be an arrogant dick about it though. Hunters should be like the natives before us, who thanked the land and the animals for their sacrifice. Not ignorant people acting like they've really accomplished something. Anyways, that has nothing to do with anything i guess just ranting haha.
I don't really agree with the sport of it either, but I understand that a lot of people like venison. (not me)
And I understand the need to hunt deer otherwise overpopulation would bring problems for the deer and us. Cold winters lead deer to dying from starvation.
I completely disagree with the "sport" of hunting, if you want to call it a sport. Trophy hunts should be completely illegal.
But I agree with you about the deer. If people are hunting the deer and eating them, I have no problem with this.
I don't like when they stand over them and hold up their antlers and smugly take photos of them... its nothing to brag about, killing an animal with your automatic rifle and acting like some sort of champion for it. If you hunt them as a source of food, that's fine. More humane than a slaughter house. You don't have to be an arrogant dick about it though. Hunters should be like the natives before us, who thanked the land and the animals for their sacrifice. Not ignorant people acting like they've really accomplished something. Anyways, that has nothing to do with anything i guess just ranting haha.
its a good start. hunters shooting an animal from 300 yards or so with a rifle, ther'es little sport in that. native americans had a thing where they would touch their prey.....it went so far as to be included in battle, they would reach out and touch the enemy, as an act of bravery. imagine touching a hibernating bear, or sneaking up on a deer an touching it, tha'ts fucking hunting. and killing a deer with a knife, there's hunting.
respecting the animal, that should be a big part of hunting.
its a good start. hunters shooting an animal from 300 yards or so with a rifle, ther'es little sport in that. native americans had a thing where they would touch their prey.....it went so far as to be included in battle, they would reach out and touch the enemy, as an act of bravery. imagine touching a hibernating bear, or sneaking up on a deer an touching it, tha'ts fucking hunting. and killing a deer with a knife, there's hunting.
respecting the animal, that should be a big part of hunting.
i quite agree!
i said on here once i'd like to see people go out with bows and arrows, and people said some hunters do...
...but i dont mean those high tech bows they have nowadays... i mean the real shit.
Most deer hunters wished that it was as easy as some of you claim that it is.....legal and ethical hunters spend many a cold morning looking at the trees just hoping for one shot.....real life is not an arcade game where the animals parade out in front of you for a set length of time and distance. $1000 rifles and fancy hi-tech bows don't guarantee a successful hunt....a hunter still needs a lot of skill and luck on his side.
If modern hunting is so easy....how come deer populations are still rising in the eastern U.S.?
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Most deer hunters wished that it was as easy as some of you claim that it is.....legal and ethical hunters spend many a cold morning looking at the trees just hoping for one shot.....real life is not an arcade game where the animals parade out in front of you for a set length of time and distance. $1000 rifles and fancy hi-tech bows don't guarantee a successful hunt....a hunter still needs a lot of skill and luck on his side.
If modern hunting is so easy....how come deer populations are still rising in the eastern U.S.?
nicely said...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
i quite agree!
i said on here once i'd like to see people go out with bows and arrows, and people said some hunters do...
...but i dont mean those high tech bows they have nowadays... i mean the real shit.
Not to be a smart ass and not sure if you care, but by moving backwards in technology you are putting more deer at risk for long, slow deaths. The quicker the kill the less pain and suffering a deer will have to go through.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
i quite agree!
i said on here once i'd like to see people go out with bows and arrows, and people said some hunters do...
...but i dont mean those high tech bows they have nowadays... i mean the real shit.
Not to be a smart ass and not sure if you care, but by moving backwards in technology you are putting more deer at risk for long, slow deaths. The quicker the kill the less pain and suffering a deer will have to go through.
Well said...and quite correct
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Hunting geese in NY could be fun. Perch up on the roof of the tallest building and blast away. After all, they are edible. Not sure how well the dog would do fetching them though. :?
its a good start. hunters shooting an animal from 300 yards or so with a rifle, ther'es little sport in that. native americans had a thing where they would touch their prey.....it went so far as to be included in battle, they would reach out and touch the enemy, as an act of bravery. imagine touching a hibernating bear, or sneaking up on a deer an touching it, tha'ts fucking hunting. and killing a deer with a knife, there's hunting.
respecting the animal, that should be a big part of hunting.
i quite agree!
i said on here once i'd like to see people go out with bows and arrows, and people said some hunters do...
...but i dont mean those high tech bows they have nowadays... i mean the real shit.
I've killed a deer with a knife before......after I shot him.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
A mountain lion made it into the city of Chicago a couple of years ago and the police shot and killed it. So this thing gets lost and shot for it.
Set some traps or use some drugs on it, it isn't a rat.
Comments
thanks tybird
not to be wise..but did you know that there are still a few mountain lions and coyotes on jugtown mountain in NW NJ?
yup, sure are
they are beautiful...elusive..but breathtaking when you finally see one
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
First, there's really nothing that can be done to the planes to make them less susceptable to bird strikes. There are some pretty dramatic things you could do but it would be way too costly and no aircraft maker would ever do it. You could never really screen the engines for instance. Currently the only method in use is to paint the spinners on the engines a spiral pattern which supposedly alerts the birds sooner but I don't know if it really works that well.
The only promising new technology is a new type of radar that can detect larger birds or large flocks of small birds and the controllers can divert the planes around/above/below them. If the bird strike problem is severe enough this might actually be put into use.
And the Hudson birds were geese. They have a very extensive library of feathers that they can match to an accident to determine what type of bird it was.
The real problem with birds is that they're just not equipped to avoid the planes. Typically small birds will dive out of the way and large birds will either roll or quickly change direction to avoid an attack. They all perceive an airplane to be an attacking predator and try to get away but with the closure rates being so high they simply don't have time to see, decide, and act.
From my point of view I would rather see some type of balance between avaoidance and route management as opposed to threat abolishment (bird killing).
thank you thank you thank you
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
This article seems fishy to me. The feds don't really care too much about wildlife mitigation outside of the airport boundary and to imply that all the bird removals were due to possible bird strikes doesn't sit with me. If anything I would say someone is adding this to help justify the removal for another reason that wouldn't sit as well with the public. Geese can be extremely damaging to park lands and are also very mean. This is not good for tourism- for instance.
i'm assuming you are a pilot?
there is really so much danger from geese?
i agree that its political more than safety-oriented
and it just shouldn't be done. period.
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
Of course, they were probably driven here from somewhere else that they were being encroached upon, but there definitely seem to be tons of them these days.
Do they have any predators besides humans?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
The eastern mountain lion debate is actually quite heated among wildlife experts. Most say that the mountain lion is extinct east of the Mississippi (outside the state of Florida). These same people claim that sightings in the east are probably former pets that were released. The mountain lion management plan for the US does not include or list any populations not in the west. I know that there are a large number of reported sightings here in the east, but I am not an expert....I just have what the experts say to go on.
But yes- I'm a pilot and yes, geese are a major threat to aircraft mainly due to mass, and exposure at low altitudes in critical phases of flight.
It's not so much that they are being driven from anywhere....they have found the optimal habitat (suburban U.S.) and have hunkered down for the long haul.
Am I correct in assuming that, once airborne, they have no predators? I'm curious because when dealing with planes they don't behave like smaller birds. They tend to roll and change directions but not dive.
This all makes it tough to avoid the larger birds because when you see small birds ahead you climb, knowing they will descend.
Vultures are known as poor "fliers".....they soar on the thermals for the majority of their flight. Due to their body plan, they will use too energy if required to flap for extended periods of time.
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
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info@wishlistfoundation.org
I'm not sure what the right answer is, but doing nothing is not a good one.
And don't blame me for over-population, I'm not having more kids.
But I agree with you about the deer. If people are hunting the deer and eating them, I have no problem with this.
I don't like when they stand over them and hold up their antlers and smugly take photos of them... its nothing to brag about, killing an animal with your automatic rifle and acting like some sort of champion for it. If you hunt them as a source of food, that's fine. More humane than a slaughter house. You don't have to be an arrogant dick about it though. Hunters should be like the natives before us, who thanked the land and the animals for their sacrifice. Not ignorant people acting like they've really accomplished something. Anyways, that has nothing to do with anything i guess just ranting haha.
its a good start. hunters shooting an animal from 300 yards or so with a rifle, ther'es little sport in that. native americans had a thing where they would touch their prey.....it went so far as to be included in battle, they would reach out and touch the enemy, as an act of bravery. imagine touching a hibernating bear, or sneaking up on a deer an touching it, tha'ts fucking hunting. and killing a deer with a knife, there's hunting.
respecting the animal, that should be a big part of hunting.
i said on here once i'd like to see people go out with bows and arrows, and people said some hunters do...
...but i dont mean those high tech bows they have nowadays... i mean the real shit.
If modern hunting is so easy....how come deer populations are still rising in the eastern U.S.?
nicely said...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Not to be a smart ass and not sure if you care, but by moving backwards in technology you are putting more deer at risk for long, slow deaths. The quicker the kill the less pain and suffering a deer will have to go through.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I've killed a deer with a knife before......after I shot him.
Set some traps or use some drugs on it, it isn't a rat.