New York Plans Mass Killings of Geese

StillHere

You mean to tell me that this is the best solution they can come up with...really? REALY?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38395625/ns ... w_york_ny/


Prospect Park used to have lots of Canada Geese, but now cameras only spot a handful.

The lack of honkers isn't because of a change in migration or something Darwin would have written about -- it comes from an organized plan to kill 165,000 of the 250,000 geese statewide.

Animal rights activists are outraged about a report prepared by city, state, and federal agencies last summer that was just released this week by The New York Times.

The report determined that New York City has a goose population that is "five times the amount that most people would find socially acceptable" -- one that is out of control and needs to be reduced.

Earlier this month, as many as 400 geese in Prospect Park were rounded up, crated and gassed in the city.

The plan emerged after months of meetings following the crash landing thats now known as the Miracle on the Hudson, when US Airways flight 1549 flew into a flock of geese causing its engines to fail.

But if point of killing the geese is to protect the planes taking off and landing near airports, how far do you go?

The city said in a statement last year that any goose on city property within five miles of an airport would be "removed," explaining that "74 percent of wildlife strikes occur at or near the airport."

Last month, officials extended the radius to 7 miles. The crash over the Hudson was further than that -- so where will the line be drawn?

"Of course I would not want to see a relative of mine go down in a plane," one animal rights activist said. "But its the way they did it, when they did, and there are other ways to manage the population."

But what about the risk to people? Geese have hit airplanes at local airports 78 times in the past 10 years, according to the Times.

CJMST3K

If I were still a NY resident, I'd complain to the govt.

"The report determined that New York City has a goose population that is "five times the amount that most people would find socially acceptable"".

...I think the Goose population would say there's 1,000 times the amount of humans that they would find socially acceptable. Why do humans over and over again keep messing with animals? Can't we just leave them alone?

philthehip

Mankind really is a shitty little stain on this planet.

StillHere

CJMST3K wrote:

If I were still a NY resident, I'd complain to the govt.

"The report determined that New York City has a goose population that is "five times the amount that most people would find socially acceptable"".

...I think the Goose population would say there's 1,000 times the amount of humans that they would find socially acceptable. Why do humans over and over again keep messing with animals? Can't we just leave them alone?

absolutely right...all the geese wouldnt have to be in "our space" if we hadn't taken "their space" and built manhanttan island on it!

we are always complaining about animals in our communities, bears in our back yards, geese in our ponds, coyotes in our parks, but where in the world are they SUPPOSED to go? we took their land...now they have no choice but to take it back if they are to survive!

EWWwwwwwww it all makes me so angry.

Not much makes me angry..but this sure does :twisted:

catefrances

those damn geese... why are they always flying and getting in our way?? :roll:

StillHere

catefrances wrote:

those damn geese... why are they always flying and getting in our way?? :roll:

maybe cuz we keep getting in their way ? :roll:

catefrances

StillHere wrote:

catefrances wrote:

those damn geese... why are they always flying and getting in our way?? :roll:

maybe cuz we keep getting in their way ? :roll:

you do know i was being facetious right?

StillHere

catefrances wrote:

StillHere wrote:

catefrances wrote:

those damn geese... why are they always flying and getting in our way?? :roll:

maybe cuz we keep getting in their way ? :roll:

you do know i was being facetious right?

i figured that ya catefrances
its all good

catefrances

StillHere wrote:

catefrances wrote:

StillHere wrote:

maybe cuz we keep getting in their way ? :roll:

you do know i was being facetious right?

i figured that ya catefrances
its all good

thank fuck cause i was worried there for a second and a half.

:wave:

StillHere

catefrances wrote:

catefrances wrote:

StillHere wrote:

maybe cuz we keep getting in their way ? :roll:

you do know i was being facetious right?

thank fuck cause i was worried there for a second and a half.

:wave:

hahahaaaa i rate a whole second and a half! wowo!
the others should be so lucky

Kel Varnsen

StillHere wrote:

we are always complaining about animals in our communities, bears in our back yards, geese in our ponds, coyotes in our parks, but where in the world are they SUPPOSED to go? we took their land...now they have no choice but to take it back if they are to survive!

EWWwwwwwww it all makes me so angry.

Not much makes me angry..but this sure does :twisted:

But humans are animals too so shouldn't we have as much right to the land as other animals do? Plus Canada Geese are super annoying and their crap pollutes everything. They should kill the geese and then give them to homeless shelters so that the meat can be used to feed the homeless of NYC.

OutOfBreath

Well, it's one thing if the extermination was part of restricting over-population among the geese. But for social reasons as "they're annoying"? That seemed a weak pretext, unless someone can enlighten me on reasons why they do this.

Peace
Dan

StillHere

Kel Varnsen wrote:

StillHere wrote:

we are always complaining about animals in our communities, bears in our back yards, geese in our ponds, coyotes in our parks, but where in the world are they SUPPOSED to go? we took their land...now they have no choice but to take it back if they are to survive!

EWWwwwwwww it all makes me so angry.

Not much makes me angry..but this sure does :twisted:

But humans are animals too so shouldn't we have as much right to the land as other animals do? Plus Canada Geese are super annoying and their crap pollutes everything. They should kill the geese and then give them to homeless shelters so that the meat can be used to feed the homeless of NYC.

the only reason the
animals are "annoying" is because we keep building on their natural habitat.
people are annoying too...way SO much more than animals
should we have open season on ANNOYING PEOPLE
and give the bodies to animal shelters so the carnivores can have something to eat?
be real, man
its our fault
not theirs

this whole geese are annoying things started when Capt. Sully flew his airplane into a flock of geese and landed in the Hudson.....
at least they "think" it was a flock of geese
no evidence of such that i can recall
but as good an excuse as any right?

unsung

So since humans are "so annoying" and there should be an "open season" on them, what are some of you really suggesting? Please explain your solution for this over population of annoying humans.

StillHere

unsung wrote:

So since humans are "so annoying" and there should be an "open season" on them, what are some of you really suggesting? Please explain your solution for this over population of annoying humans.

i have absolutely no plan for open season on humans
it was merely a sarcastic response to the prior poster

i'm just saying that its not the animal's fault that they are "in our way"
its our fault that we're in their way
they were here first
we built up all around them
pushed them into what we now call "our land"
but it isn't
we need to learn to share

unsung

Fair enough.

So let's say that there is a problem with too many geese, so much so that planes are really crashing because of them.

What would be your solution?

StillHere

unsung wrote:

Fair enough.

So let's say that there is a problem with too many geese, so much so that planes are really crashing because of them.

What would be your solution?

well, certainly i am no wildlife or waterfowl expert, and i am not at all sure what we could do to keep them from flying in our airspace. AND I am not at all sure that Capt Sully's flight was brought down by geese, or if any significant number of flights are actually affected by birds or waterfowl.

But, for the sake of this discussion, we'll say there could be.....sooooo....

it is my belief that these animals use the same routes north and south each season while migrating, and stop to rest almost without exception, in the same places along their voyages each year.

that being said...i suppose there are things that could be done to try to lead them away from their determined route and out of flight take off/landing paths near NYC, for starters.

What that action would be, i'm not sure, however, I do believe, very strongly, that there are solutions, and that slaughtering the geese, who are just doing their best to co-exist peacefully, is not on the agenda.

No experience with geese, at least not to the "nuisance" point in my neck of the woods, our "problem" increasingly, seems to be black bears. Thankfully, police and wildlife experts in our area have adopted a "leave them be" course of action, with preventive measures taken to make our back yards much less attractive to the bears. Not leaving food outside, cleaning your grill completely and burning off any food residue after EACH use, AND if possible, removing it into the basement, using bear-proof trash can lids, not leaving food or groceries in your car overnight, etc.

After all, again, look at how bears learned to come into our yards and vehicles looking for food...we taught them. We thought they were cute, we fed them, we enticed them, we left food out for them so we could take photos of the mama and her cute little cubs....but now...now...they just keep coming. Well, now ...whose fault might that be? hmmm?

Of course, bears do not fly...soooooo that leads us ...

But back to the geese. There must be someone who is knowledgeable in electronics and/or aeronautics and/or wildlife conservation, that can build a sonar type of device, high pitched, or whatever may super annoying to the ears of geese, that would not interfere with air traffic or air traffic control, and at the same time deter the flock from their pre-planned flight path?. Some sort of short distance radio wave or something to that effect. You know, similar to the devices that are supposed to keep stray cats, dogs and squirrels out of our back yards.

Any ideas yourself?

I would definitely be interested.

I don't know. It's a thought.

StillHere

yeah, i already know that i talk way too much,
so if you've read through all that, kudos to you
carry on....

Drowned Out

I like how the article states that most geese/plane collisions occur at or near airports....no shit sherlock...like there are massive flocks of geese flying around at 40000 ft :roll:

And yes, I'd like a little more scientific justification over population than "there are more geese around than we find socially acceptable". If it's a real overpopulation issue, due to lack of predators or human interference in the food chain...fine. If they just think they're annoying, they should find a better solution than this.

Jeanwah

The same could be complained about the overpopulation of deer in New York State...but no one's complaining about the hunters...

The geese aren't traveling like they used to. Something about the NE climate tells them to stay right there next to the Hudson River which causes them to interfere with the planes. Now if they could just fly north like they're supposed to... A humane solution would be to move them, I suppose.

StillHere

Jeanwah wrote:

The same could be complained about the overpopulation of deer in New York State...but no one's complaining about the hunters...

The geese aren't traveling like they used to. Something about the NE climate tells them to stay right there next to the Hudson River which causes them to interfere with the planes. Now if they could just fly north like they're supposed to... A humane solution would be to move them, I suppose.

I am, complaining about the hunters, that is

Jeanwah

StillHere wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

The same could be complained about the overpopulation of deer in New York State...but no one's complaining about the hunters...

The geese aren't traveling like they used to. Something about the NE climate tells them to stay right there next to the Hudson River which causes them to interfere with the planes. Now if they could just fly north like they're supposed to... A humane solution would be to move them, I suppose.

I am, complaining about the hunters, that is

But, without the hunters, the deer population would be a very serious problem.

StillHere

Jeanwah wrote:

StillHere wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

The same could be complained about the overpopulation of deer in New York State...but no one's complaining about the hunters...

The geese aren't traveling like they used to. Something about the NE climate tells them to stay right there next to the Hudson River which causes them to interfere with the planes. Now if they could just fly north like they're supposed to... A humane solution would be to move them, I suppose.

I am, complaining about the hunters, that is

But, without the hunters, the deer population would be a very serious problem.

why would it be a problem?
we can build higher fences
we can use deer deflectors alongside the roadways

ok if you need food for your family
then go ahead and hunt

if you want a trophy on your rec room wall
stay home
or get into paper mache for pete's sake
make a nice looking elk head or whatever

otherwise, as in everything else in this world
mother nature will take care of things
in her own way
in her own time

i know most of you probably disagree vehemently

but that's how i roll

i'm not vegan, not even vegetarian

just believe that we should not take more
from nature than we need

Jeanwah

StillHere wrote:

why would it be a problem?
we can build higher fences
we can use deer deflectors alongside the roadways

ok if you need food for your family
then go ahead and hunt

if you want a trophy on your rec room wall
stay home
or get into paper mache for pete's sake
make a nice looking elk head or whatever

otherwise, as in everything else in this world
mother nature will take care of things
in her own way
in her own time

i know most of you probably disagree vehemently

but that's how i roll

i'm not vegan, not even vegetarian

just believe that we should not take more
from nature than we need

Ask the large number of people (who are still alive) who've hit deer with their car, and that's with hunting being LEGAL, if they think that hunting should be outlawed. There would be many more fatalities without hunting. (that's the deer being killed, too) Deer simply don't stay behind fencing; they're wild animals. They will find a way. And you really think fencing is good for them any way?

In a neighboring city, they have an overpopulation of ducks, because people feel the need to FEED THEM, forcing them to multiply and overflow into busy city streets. And that's with signs everywhere stating NOT to feed the ducks. Animals do best when eating their natural food, but people just can't help but feed them food that's not good for their digestive systems. I actually have said to people feeding them, that if they care about these animals, they wouldn't feed them "people" food.

I had a beaver problem on my property last summer. It damned up my pond which flooded the area. What do I do? I call the DEC and ask for a humane way of moving the pest. They tell me to shoot it because there is no "safe" place to move it. Beavers cause destruction everywhere. And when there's an overpopulation of them, it doesn't help people, nor the animals themselves. It's a double-edged sword. And that goes for human overpopulation, too. We'll soon find out.

StillHere

Jeanwah wrote:

StillHere wrote:

why would it be a problem?
we can build higher fences
we can use deer deflectors alongside the roadways

ok if you need food for your family
then go ahead and hunt

if you want a trophy on your rec room wall
stay home
or get into paper mache for pete's sake
make a nice looking elk head or whatever

otherwise, as in everything else in this world
mother nature will take care of things
in her own way
in her own time

i know most of you probably disagree vehemently

but that's how i roll

i'm not vegan, not even vegetarian

just believe that we should not take more
from nature than we need

Ask the large number of people (who are still alive) who've hit deer with their car, and that's with hunting being LEGAL, if they think that hunting should be outlawed. There would be many more fatalities without hunting. (that's the deer being killed, too) Deer simply don't stay behind fencing; they're wild animals. They will find a way. And you really think fencing is good for them any way?

In a neighboring city, they have an overpopulation of ducks, because people feel the need to FEED THEM, forcing them to multiply and overflow into busy city streets. And that's with signs everywhere stating NOT to feed the ducks. Animals do best when eating their natural food, but people just can't help but feed them food that's not good for their digestive systems. I actually have said to people feeding them, that if they care about these animals, they wouldn't feed them "people" food.

I had a beaver problem on my property last summer. It damned up my pond which flooded the area. What do I do? I call the DEC and ask for a humane way of moving the pest. They tell me to shoot it because there is no "safe" place to move it. Beavers cause destruction everywhere. And when there's an overpopulation of them, it doesn't help people, nor the animals themselves. It's a double-edged sword. And that goes for human overpopulation, too. We'll soon find out.

we sure will
im not saying humans are not overpopulating either
and i have hit a deer
or i should say a deer has jumped onto the hood of my car
and totaled it
i understand all that
i just don't agree with random killing for sport
and that's what a lot, if not most of the hunters (the ones i know)
are doing
and that's not right
no matter what the excuse is

StillHere

anyway....i'll just agree not to agree
and I'll shut the Fk up
i always talk to much
like now
:roll:

Jeanwah

StillHere wrote:

we sure will
im not saying humans are not overpopulating either
and i have hit a deer
or i should say a deer has jumped onto the hood of my car
and totaled it
i understand all that
i just don't agree with random killing for sport
and that's what a lot, if not most of the hunters (the ones i know)
are doing
and that's not right
no matter what the excuse is

I don't really agree with the sport of it either, but I understand that a lot of people like venison. (not me)
And I understand the need to hunt deer otherwise overpopulation would bring problems for the deer and us. Cold winters lead deer to dying from starvation.

StillHere wrote:

anyway....i'll just agree not to agree
and I'll shut the Fk up
i always talk to much
like now
:roll:

No!!

unlost dogs

With all the technological improvements we've seen in recent decades, we haven't yet figured out how to some how screen a jet engine to prevent bird strikes?

This is nothing new. In 1960 a bird strike took down a jet leaving Logan Airport. Landed in the harbor behind my grandmother's house. Everybody on board died and her yard was one of the places they used for the bodies.

And in the 50 years since then, they still haven't been able to come up with a better way to protect the engines... or the birds.

StillHere

unlost dogs wrote:

With all the technological improvements we've seen in recent decades, we haven't yet figured out how to some how screen a jet engine to prevent bird strikes?

This is nothing new. In 1960 a bird strike took down a jet leaving Logan Airport. Landed in the harbor behind my grandmother's house. Everybody on board died and her yard was one of the places they used for the bodies.

And in the 50 years since then, they still haven't been able to come up with a better way to protect the engines... or the birds.

hmmmm...i was thinking along the lines of trying to sway the birds

but screening the jet engines...well ya...that would make a whole lot more sense

duh!

so why don't they? do the clog up? freeze up? must be something like that

if we can go floating around out in the milky way, why can't we keep a bird out of an engine at 4,000 ft?

Kel Varnsen

Jeanwah wrote:

The same could be complained about the overpopulation of deer in New York State...but no one's complaining about the hunters...

Or rats in NYC you don't hear many people there or anywhere complaining about rat control. Back to geese though, lots of places in Canada have problems with overpopulation of Canada Geese. The big problem is how much their crap pollutes everything. There are lots of places where you read about swimming areas being closed because of e. coli contamination due to goose crap.

tybird

Jeanwah wrote:

StillHere wrote:

why would it be a problem?
we can build higher fences
we can use deer deflectors alongside the roadways

ok if you need food for your family
then go ahead and hunt

if you want a trophy on your rec room wall
stay home
or get into paper mache for pete's sake
make a nice looking elk head or whatever

otherwise, as in everything else in this world
mother nature will take care of things
in her own way
in her own time

i know most of you probably disagree vehemently

but that's how i roll

i'm not vegan, not even vegetarian

just believe that we should not take more
from nature than we need

Ask the large number of people (who are still alive) who've hit deer with their car, and that's with hunting being LEGAL, if they think that hunting should be outlawed. There would be many more fatalities without hunting. (that's the deer being killed, too) Deer simply don't stay behind fencing; they're wild animals. They will find a way. And you really think fencing is good for them any way?

In a neighboring city, they have an overpopulation of ducks, because people feel the need to FEED THEM, forcing them to multiply and overflow into busy city streets. And that's with signs everywhere stating NOT to feed the ducks. Animals do best when eating their natural food, but people just can't help but feed them food that's not good for their digestive systems. I actually have said to people feeding them, that if they care about these animals, they wouldn't feed them "people" food.

I had a beaver problem on my property last summer. It damned up my pond which flooded the area. What do I do? I call the DEC and ask for a humane way of moving the pest. They tell me to shoot it because there is no "safe" place to move it. Beavers cause destruction everywhere. And when there's an overpopulation of them, it doesn't help people, nor the animals themselves. It's a double-edged sword. And that goes for human overpopulation, too. We'll soon find out.

Several things.....We removed the wolf and the mountain lion from east of the Mississippi....long before any of us were even born....no wolf and no puma (aka mountain lion) is good news/bad news for the white-tailed deer population....unchecked reproduction....until they scrub the local area clean of vegetation....which can lead to starvation, unhealthy living conditions and outbreaks of disease....which can drive a population to zero faster than any humans with guns. In fact, this is similar to what happened at the end of the 19th and onset of the 20th century....white-tailed deer were almost extinct in the eastern US....until game management laws were enacted..yes, this means regulated hunting.....this management has lead to a deer population that is dangerously high in some regions, but it beats the alternative.

Canada Geese.....that icon of avian fall migration.....those beautiful vee formations honking their way through the crisp autumn air....well, they have discovered the post-WWII suburban landscape....and guess what...it's optimal conditions for them....so, fewer and fewer geese are migrating every year....because they are becoming year-round residents in areas where they were uncommon in the past. Check the Audubon Society Christmas Bird Counts....more and more and more Canada Geese are being counted in late December in places where they would have left in years past. This combined with a decrease in hunting has lead to this issue of too many Canada Geese in many locations. It sucks that so many have to die in these slaughters...but something has to be done to avoid conditions that lead to a complete crash in the population (e.g. disease out-break).

Beavers....another game management success story...once on the edge of extinction...now seemingly everywhere.....near impossible to trap and remove according to everyone I have talked to about the critters...too smart for human traps