Gun control does not work

Shawshank

Jason P wrote:

I'm not totally disagreeing with you but I would like to point out that both alcohol and drugs create addiction in the user's mind. Guns are just pieces of metal, although some say shooting and collecting them does become addictive, although I would argue against withdrawal symptoms.

My case-in-point on how a federal ban would affect us: Fully automatic weapons

I don't hear too many stories of fully automatic weapons being used in crimes. I don't know what the black market is for them but I imagine it caters to a select list of clients. I also don't know anyone personally who has one . . . and I have a lot of friends that have 30+ guns. Therefore, I would argue that the ban on assault weapons has been effective. (pretty scientific, eh? )

Fully automatic weapons are out there, but they aren't needed for your basic home invasion or robbery, nor are they needed for defense. The mentality of most people is they keep guns for protection. So if guns are banned, normally law-abiding citizens will find a way to procure them, and that will involve the blackmarket. Simple as that. I know many here see that as being barbaric and uncivilized but that is the unfortunate reality of our world. Do I want to live in a world where I feel like I need to have a gun? Hell to the f*cking NO! Do I want to be on an even playing field with the scumbags who will get them and possibly use them against my family? YES!

Jason P

Shawshank wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I'm not totally disagreeing with you but I would like to point out that both alcohol and drugs create addiction in the user's mind. Guns are just pieces of metal, although some say shooting and collecting them does become addictive, although I would argue against withdrawal symptoms.

My case-in-point on how a federal ban would affect us: Fully automatic weapons

I don't hear too many stories of fully automatic weapons being used in crimes. I don't know what the black market is for them but I imagine it caters to a select list of clients. I also don't know anyone personally who has one . . . and I have a lot of friends that have 30+ guns. Therefore, I would argue that the ban on assault weapons has been effective. (pretty scientific, eh? )

Fully automatic weapons are out there, but they aren't needed for your basic home invasion or robbery, nor are they needed for defense. The mentality of most people is they keep guns for protection. So if guns are banned, normally law-abiding citizens will find a way to procure them, and that will involve the blackmarket. Simple as that. I know many here see that as being barbaric and uncivilized but that is the unfortunate reality of our world. Do I want to live in a world where I feel like I need to have a gun? Hell to the f*cking NO! Do I want to be on an even playing field with the scumbags who will get them and possibly use them against my family? YES!

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . I own several rifles and a handgun. I wasn't really coming at this issue from a anti-gun platform but I do think the changes would be drastic with a federal ban and I don't think the black market could operate as profitable as the drug runners. People perform sexual favors, steal, and ruin their families and minds for drugs. And they provide repeat business, week after week.

I do think that the black market would see a major increase but it would not be able to keep up with the demand. Large inventories of weapons are much harder to transport and distribute then drugs. Plus, as any gun-owner knows, ammunition suppliers can't even keep up with the current demand under legal conditions. How could a black market operate more efficiently? Anyway, this is all fantasy talk because guns will never be taken away, no matter what propaganda and fear the NRA spews to fill their coffers.

I do think that gun ownership should be looked at as a privilege, as well as a right. And I believe that weapons that are linked to violent crime, such as handguns should only be a privilege. And I would support more safe-guards and even a mental evaluation for hand-gun purchases. But that's just me.

eyedclaar

Jason P wrote:

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . .

While I agree with the rest of what you said, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Coming from the Idaho, Wyoming portion/perspective ofthe world, I will tell you it is the exact opposite. Dumb ass drunk hillbillies shooting anything that moves is more like it. In fact, I have been to 'gun parties' in Wyoming that would terrify almost all of you. I too own guns, lots of them, AND I know what I'm doing, but I do not trust the average gun owner at all.

Jason P

eyedclaar wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . .

While I agree with the rest of what you said, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Coming from the Idaho, Wyoming portion/perspective ofthe world, I will tell you it is the exact opposite. Dumb ass drunk hillbillies shooting anything that moves is more like it. In fact, I have been to 'gun parties' in Wyoming that would terrify almost all of you. I too own guns, lots of them, AND I know what I'm doing, but I do not trust the average gun owner at all.

Yeah, I should have included "that I know" to the end of the sentence.

I've been to Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming before and I would agree that it is much more frontier like. And that probably attracts more hillbillies and militia types. I remember stopping at a grocery store in Kalispell and besides the workers, I was the only one without a side-arm in the store! I'm guessing hold-ups were a little more rare in that town.

chadwick

eyedclaar wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . .

While I agree with the rest of what you said, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Coming from the Idaho, Wyoming portion/perspective ofthe world, I will tell you it is the exact opposite. Dumb ass drunk hillbillies shooting anything that moves is more like it. In fact, I have been to 'gun parties' in Wyoming that would terrify almost all of you. I too own guns, lots of them, AND I know what I'm doing, but I do not trust the average gun owner at all.

i have been to parties just like the ones you are speaking of.
i couldn't take it anymore.
i went inside the house and prayed no one got shot.
our property was a firing range for dad's bullshit co-workers and our family & friends.
oddly enough out of 4,127 people only 6 of us are professionals.

9mm's, 20 & 12 gauge shotguns, high power rifles like 30/30's, 30.06's, m16's,
25-5/.45's, .357's, 22's, colt 45's, and one antique .38, ect, ect.
this was our backyard on any given day.
add whiskey, beer, weed, a bonfire, and surly prison guards and you have stupid bullshit.

it's ridiculous that a person can own a gun and not have a clue how to use it safely.

thank god i was properly raised around guns.
my dad would whip my ass if i were not safe with a gun.
i knew better.
i'm not playin games.

i will howver blow up an old car or play crash up derby in the near by field.

blackredyellow

chadwick wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . .

While I agree with the rest of what you said, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Coming from the Idaho, Wyoming portion/perspective ofthe world, I will tell you it is the exact opposite. Dumb ass drunk hillbillies shooting anything that moves is more like it. In fact, I have been to 'gun parties' in Wyoming that would terrify almost all of you. I too own guns, lots of them, AND I know what I'm doing, but I do not trust the average gun owner at all.

i have been to parties just like the ones you are speaking of.
i couldn't take it anymore.
i went inside the house and prayed no one got shot.
our property was a firing range for dad's bullshit co-workers and our family & friends.
oddly enough out of 4,127 people only 6 of us are professionals.

9mm's, 20 & 12 gauge shotguns, high power rifles like 30/30's, 30.06's, m16's,
25-5/.45's, .357's, 22's, colt 45's, and one antique .38, ect, ect.
this was our backyard on any given day.
add whiskey, beer, weed, a bonfire, and surly prison guards and you have stupid bullshit.

it's ridiculous that a person can own a gun and not have a clue how to use it safely.

thank god i was properly raised around guns.
my dad would whip my ass if i were not safe with a gun.
i knew better.
i'm not playin games.

i will howver blow up an old car or play crash up derby in the near by field.

Maybe it's a geographical thing then... I grew up in rural western Pennsylvania. My father & brother hunt, my parents families hunt (even the women), just about everyone I grew up with had hunters in their family. Hell, the first day of buck season was (maybe still is) a school holiday.

I would say that the vast majority of the people I know from there are gun owners... and most of them are normal, responsible people.

chadwick

blackredyellow wrote:

Maybe it's a geographical thing then... I grew up in rural western Pennsylvania. My father & brother hunt, my parents families hunt (even the women), just about everyone I grew up with had hunters in their family. Hell, the first day of buck season was (maybe still is) a school holiday.

I would say that the vast majority of the people I know from there are gun owners... and most of them are normal, responsible people.

it sure is.
you gonna tell a missouri frickin hillbilly he can't own a gun?
he will laugh at you while spitting chewing tobacco shit on your foot.
that's when you'll notice he has 3 teeth.

he may have only 3 teeth in is face but he has 32 guns in his 4x4 truck.

norm

hey, without automatic weapons we wouldn't have this glorious piece of video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KmAOtkKf00

chadwick

norm wrote:

hey, without automatic weapons we wouldn't have this glorious piece of video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KmAOtkKf00

that is insane, norm.
this one is for you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooGrI0FHkU

catefrances

Shawshank wrote:

catefrances wrote:

no not like every country. australia didnt become her own nation through war like the US did.

No, not through an "official" war, but before you get too high on the morality horse, it's important to note that much like the Europeans who came to the U.S. and decimated the Native Americans, Europeans who colonized Australia did their best to wipe out Aboriginals through murder and even attempted genocide. Also, Australians where never under the subjugation of the British Empire in the way that the American Colonies were. Britain had learned it's lesson from the pounding it received during the American Revolutionary War. The policies towards it's colonies eased a bit, and the Crown was not so much of a hard ass to it's subjects afterward.

you misunderstand me. im on no moral high horse here, just stating a fact. im not speaking of colonisation of america or australia. what im referring to is the formation of both our countries as nations. ie the war of independence and australian federation. i am fully aware we share the same kind of settler prenation history so to speak. there would never have been war of independence here. im not coming down on the american colonies for waging their independence war. just trying to gauge where your gun culture originated and imo it was here. and your 2nd amendment all but confirms it. the war of independence is why the 2nd amendment exists. not directly due to the war but for the need to defend the fledgling nation that was born of the war against all enemies foreign and domestic. i have no doubt had the colonies of australia needed to fight for their autonomy, our attitude towards guns would be different. we were fortunate that britain is so far away and that it was a different time.

lukin2006

Godfather. wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

gun runners from mexico Canada and other countries would have a lock on the black market for guns just as Al Capon had on booze during Prohibition which would cause wars between the family's profiting from that trade and the police would be up to their nutz in it not to mention the already over populated prison system would be bankrupt, Americans love their gun's and will never give them up..as the bumper sticker read "you can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers off the trigger" guns are a great part of this countries history they are not going anywhere.

Godfather.

Gun runners from Canada, really, do have any facts to support this claim. A few facts hand gun ownership is extremely regulated and has been since the 30's, long gun ownership is regulated and has been since the 90's.

Most illegal guns in our country come from the US.

sorry to offend you, what I mean is canada can be used as port of entry since the border is very long and has ez ocean access and a ez path to the united states in many areas,Detroit is just across the bay right ?

Godfather.

Actually, I live across from Detroit and we are separated by the Detroit River, but believe me illegal guns are coming in from the US to Canada, you got bigger problems with Mexico than you'll ever have with us. You didn't offend me, yes we are bordered by the Ocean, but we're not the problem.

Godfather.

lukin2006; fair enough man I stand corrected.

Godfather.

Cosmo

How about reasonable Gun Control?
I'm all for the Second Amendment... but, I don't want any fucking moron to be able to own a functioning .50 cal. machine gun. Or a .50 cal. rifle. What are you hunting with a .50 caliber rifle? A T.Rex? A 767 on approach to the nearest airport? If you need something that powerful to protect your family... do them a favor and move to someplace where they aren't threatened by T. Rexs.
And semi-automatic assault rifles. Who goes hunting with an M-16? Idiots, that's who.
Same goes for handguns that don't show up on X-Ray machines. Why do you want a gun that can slip past TSA screenings? Are you a fucking terroist? And guns disguised as objects other than guns. Not for public use... our spies... yes. Our drunken nimrods... no.
You want to protect your family... great. A loaded 9mm or .38 can provide that... so, can a 12 guage. You like to hunt? How about a 30.06 Remington? Are you that shitty of a hunter thant you need to spray a deer with automatic weapons fire? If you are... how about taking up fishing, instead?
No one wants to take your stockpile of guns away from you inbread Bible thumpers living in the middle of fucking no where waiting for the rapture so you can murder the unrighteous. Your rights to own whatever penis substitute gives the same rights to your counterpart that lives in a city of 20 million. We don't want to keep you from stroking your stock in your log cabin in the desert... the same way we don't want your laws in our cities.
If L.A. county wants to try to keep high powered guns out of the hands of numbnut Laker rioters... let us. If he wants the freedom to own and fire a Howitzer... he can move next door to you.

Jason P

Cosmo wrote:

How about reasonable Gun Control?
I'm all for the Second Amendment... but, I don't want any fucking moron to be able to own a functioning .50 cal. machine gun. Or a .50 cal. rifle. What are you hunting with a .50 caliber rifle? A T.Rex? A 767 on approach to the nearest airport? If you need something that powerful to protect your family... do them a favor and move to someplace where they aren't threatened by T. Rexs.
And semi-automatic assault rifles. Who goes hunting with an M-16? Idiots, that's who.
Same goes for handguns that don't show up on X-Ray machines. Why do you want a gun that can slip past TSA screenings? Are you a fucking terroist? And guns disguised as objects other than guns. Not for public use... our spies... yes. Our drunken nimrods... no.
You want to protect your family... great. A loaded 9mm or .38 can provide that... so, can a 12 guage. You like to hunt? How about a 30.06 Remington? Are you that shitty of a hunter thant you need to spray a deer with automatic weapons fire? If you are... how about taking up fishing, instead?
No one wants to take your stockpile of guns away from you inbread Bible thumpers living in the middle of fucking no where waiting for the rapture so you can murder the unrighteous. Your rights to own whatever penis substitute gives the same rights to your counterpart that lives in a city of 20 million. We don't want to keep you from stroking your stock in your log cabin in the desert... the same way we don't want your laws in our cities.
If L.A. county wants to try to keep high powered guns out of the hands of numbnut Laker rioters... let us. If he wants the freedom to own and fire a Howitzer... he can move next door to you.

I'm with you (although most my friends hunt deer with .50 cal muzzle loaders). Unfortunately the NRA will not let this happen.

norm

Cosmo wrote:

How about reasonable Gun Control?
I'm all for the Second Amendment... but, I don't want any fucking moron to be able to own a functioning .50 cal. machine gun. Or a .50 cal. rifle. What are you hunting with a .50 caliber rifle? A T.Rex? A 767 on approach to the nearest airport? If you need something that powerful to protect your family... do them a favor and move to someplace where they aren't threatened by T. Rexs.
And semi-automatic assault rifles. Who goes hunting with an M-16? Idiots, that's who.
Same goes for handguns that don't show up on X-Ray machines. Why do you want a gun that can slip past TSA screenings? Are you a fucking terroist? And guns disguised as objects other than guns. Not for public use... our spies... yes. Our drunken nimrods... no.
You want to protect your family... great. A loaded 9mm or .38 can provide that... so, can a 12 guage. You like to hunt? How about a 30.06 Remington? Are you that shitty of a hunter thant you need to spray a deer with automatic weapons fire? If you are... how about taking up fishing, instead?
No one wants to take your stockpile of guns away from you inbread Bible thumpers living in the middle of fucking no where waiting for the rapture so you can murder the unrighteous. Your rights to own whatever penis substitute gives the same rights to your counterpart that lives in a city of 20 million. We don't want to keep you from stroking your stock in your log cabin in the desert... the same way we don't want your laws in our cities.
If L.A. county wants to try to keep high powered guns out of the hands of numbnut Laker rioters... let us. If he wants the freedom to own and fire a Howitzer... he can move next door to you.

reason and logic will get us nowhere...you know that cos