Gun control does not work

Blockhead

It only affects law-abiding citizens.

Jason P

As someone pointed out in another thread, gun control in a city doesn't work. Since criminal elements can easily go outside the city limits, it does primarily effect the law-abiding citizen.

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents. But don't worry. The NRA will ensure that will never happen.

Stypo420

Jason P wrote:

As someone pointed out in another thread, gun control in a city doesn't work. Since criminal elements can easily go outside the city limits, it does primarily effect the law-abiding citizen.

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents. But don't worry. The NRA will ensure that will never happen.

+1

catefrances

it works here. we havent had a mass shooting since tougher regulations were brought in in the 90s. sure criminals can still get their hands on guns. and sure not everyone handed their weapons in. but generally speaking gun control here has been a good thing. though admittedly we never had a gun culture like the united states has.

Godfather.

Jason P wrote:

As someone pointed out in another thread, gun control in a city doesn't work. Since criminal elements can easily go outside the city limits, it does primarily effect the law-abiding citizen.

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents. But don't worry. The NRA will ensure that will never happen.

gun runners from mexico Canada and other countries would have a lock on the black market for guns just as Al Capon had on booze during Prohibition which would cause wars between the family's profiting from that trade and the police would be up to their nutz in it not to mention the already over populated prison system would be bankrupt, Americans love their gun's and will never give them up..as the bumper sticker read "you can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers off the trigger" guns are a great part of this countries history they are not going anywhere.

Godfather.

catefrances

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

As someone pointed out in another thread, gun control in a city doesn't work. Since criminal elements can easily go outside the city limits, it does primarily effect the law-abiding citizen.

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents. But don't worry. The NRA will ensure that will never happen.

gun runners from mexico Canada and other countries would have a lock on the black market for guns just as Al Capon had on booze during Prohibition which would cause wars between the family's profiting from that trade and the police would be up to their nutz in it not to mention the already over populated prison system would be bankrupt, Americans love their gun's and will never give them up..as the pumper sticker read "you can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers off the trigger" guns are a great part of this countries history they are not going anywhere.

Godfather.

well i guess youre up against it when your country was born of violence.

Godfather.

catefrances wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

As someone pointed out in another thread, gun control in a city doesn't work. Since criminal elements can easily go outside the city limits, it does primarily effect the law-abiding citizen.

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents. But don't worry. The NRA will ensure that will never happen.

gun runners from mexico Canada and other countries would have a lock on the black market for guns just as Al Capon had on booze during Prohibition which would cause wars between the family's profiting from that trade and the police would be up to their nutz in it not to mention the already over populated prison system would be bankrupt, Americans love their gun's and will never give them up..as the pumper sticker read "you can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers off the trigger" guns are a great part of this countries history they are not going anywhere.

Godfather.

well i guess youre up against it when your country was born of violence.

yea just like every other country in the world I guess.

Godfather.

catefrances

Godfather. wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Godfather wrote:

gun runners from mexico Canada and other countries would have a lock on the black market for guns just as Al Capon had on booze during Prohibition which would cause wars between the family's profiting from that trade and the police would be up to their nutz in it not to mention the already over populated prison system would be bankrupt, Americans love their gun's and will never give them up..as the pumper sticker read "you can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers off the trigger" guns are a great part of this countries history they are not going anywhere.

Godfather.

well i guess youre up against it when your country was born of violence.

yea just like every other country in the world I guess.

Godfather.

no not like every country. australia didnt become her own nation through war like the US did.

Jason P

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

As someone pointed out in another thread, gun control in a city doesn't work. Since criminal elements can easily go outside the city limits, it does primarily effect the law-abiding citizen.

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents. But don't worry. The NRA will ensure that will never happen.

gun runners from mexico Canada and other countries would have a lock on the black market for guns just as Al Capon had on booze during Prohibition which would cause wars between the family's profiting from that trade and the police would be up to their nutz in it not to mention the already over populated prison system would be bankrupt, Americans love their gun's and will never give them up..as the bumper sticker read "you can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers off the trigger" guns are a great part of this countries history they are not going anywhere.

Godfather.

There already is a black market for guns, so I don't buy that argument. The biggest issues is that it would cost too much to pay fair-market price to people who have to hand their guns over. Combine that with the above mentioned attitude and how it would be almost impossible to collect the estimated 200,000,000 firearms that Americans own and I agree that guns are not going anywhere.

he still stands

to harm another individual you must be mentally ill : people are killed in droves in the US : a much higher rate of mental illness occurs in the US

Let's get to the source of the problem - why are people mentally ill and harming one another and doing other insane things?

Maybe it is because most people don't like what they're life has become? Does that mean that society has failed? Is the rat race causing us to become rats?

chadwick

he still stands wrote:

to harm another individual you must be mentally ill : people are killed in droves in the US : a much higher rate of mental illness occurs in the US

Let's get to the source of the problem - why are people mentally ill and harming one another and doing other insane things?

Maybe it is because most people don't like what they're life has become? Does that mean that society has failed? Is the rat race causing us to become rats?

good point.
some folks can't hang.

and yes the rat race is bullshit.
i am very pleased i take almost zero part in it.

eyedclaar

Godfather. wrote:

Americans love their gun's and will never give them up..as the bumper sticker read "you can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers off the trigger" guns are a great part of this countries history they are not going anywhere.

Godfather.

Let me get this straight, Godfather. You are pro-gun and anti-pot? Sweet. Just like Jesus, I imagine...

Godfather.

he still stands wrote:

to harm another individual you must be mentally ill : people are killed in droves in the US : a much higher rate of mental illness occurs in the US

Let's get to the source of the problem - why are people mentally ill and harming one another and doing other insane things?

Maybe it is because most people don't like what they're life has become? Does that mean that society has failed? Is the rat race causing us to become rats?

you only need go to Los Angeles for the answer to that.

Godfather.

mikepegg44

Jason P wrote:

As someone pointed out in another thread, gun control in a city doesn't work. Since criminal elements can easily go outside the city limits, it does primarily effect the law-abiding citizen.

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents. But don't worry. The NRA will ensure that will never happen.

I have never agreed with the idea that people can buy assault weapons or armor piercing bullets or any of that...but the problem is that if you make it all illegal you are punishing those that DO follow the rules. I like to hunt, I have properly registered fire arms, why should I be denied the ability to do something because others are using those tools to commit crimes. It doesn't make sense to me. If people want to kill each other they are going to, there is no rationality to violence. Why punish the law abiding and not really stop criminals from gettig guns?

Gun Violence sucks, but there are so many more responsible gun owners than criminals

Shawshank

Jason P wrote:

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents.

Just like we've seen such a dramatic reduction in the trafficking of drugs, just like we saw a dramatic reduction in alcohol consumption and availability when prohibition was in place. Blackmarket empires are born out of Federal regulation and restriction.

Shawshank

catefrances wrote:

no not like every country. australia didnt become her own nation through war like the US did.

No, not through an "official" war, but before you get too high on the morality horse, it's important to note that much like the Europeans who came to the U.S. and decimated the Native Americans, Europeans who colonized Australia did their best to wipe out Aboriginals through murder and even attempted genocide. Also, Australians where never under the subjugation of the British Empire in the way that the American Colonies were. Britain had learned it's lesson from the pounding it received during the American Revolutionary War. The policies towards it's colonies eased a bit, and the Crown was not so much of a hard ass to it's subjects afterward.

Godfather.

Shawshank wrote:

catefrances wrote:

no not like every country. australia didnt become her own nation through war like the US did.

No, not through an "official" war, but before you get too high on the morality horse, it's important to note that much like the Europeans who came to the U.S. and decimated the Native Americans, Europeans who colonized Australia did their best to wipe out Aboriginals through murder and even attempted genocide. Also, Australians where never under the subjugation of the British Empire in the way that the American Colonies were. Britain had learned it's lesson from the pounding it received during the American Revolutionary War. The policies towards it's colonies eased a bit, and the Crown was not so much of a hard ass to it's subjects afterward.

wow cool history lesson thanks.

Godfather.

Jason P

Shawshank wrote:

Jason P wrote:

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents.

Just like we've seen such a dramatic reduction in the trafficking of drugs, just like we saw a dramatic reduction in alcohol consumption and availability when prohibition was in place. Blackmarket empires are born out of Federal regulation and restriction.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you but I would like to point out that both alcohol and drugs create addiction in the user's mind. Guns are just pieces of metal, although some say shooting and collecting them does become addictive, although I would argue against withdrawal symptoms.

My case-in-point on how a federal ban would affect us: Fully automatic weapons

I don't hear too many stories of fully automatic weapons being used in crimes. I don't know what the black market is for them but I imagine it caters to a select list of clients. I also don't know anyone personally who has one . . . and I have a lot of friends that have 30+ guns. Therefore, I would argue that the ban on assault weapons has been effective. (pretty scientific, eh? )

lukin2006

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

As someone pointed out in another thread, gun control in a city doesn't work. Since criminal elements can easily go outside the city limits, it does primarily effect the law-abiding citizen.

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents. But don't worry. The NRA will ensure that will never happen.

gun runners from mexico Canada and other countries would have a lock on the black market for guns just as Al Capon had on booze during Prohibition which would cause wars between the family's profiting from that trade and the police would be up to their nutz in it not to mention the already over populated prison system would be bankrupt, Americans love their gun's and will never give them up..as the bumper sticker read "you can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers off the trigger" guns are a great part of this countries history they are not going anywhere.

Godfather.

Gun runners from Canada, really, do have any facts to support this claim. A few facts hand gun ownership is extremely regulated and has been since the 30's, long gun ownership is regulated and has been since the 90's.

Most illegal guns in our country come from the US.

Godfather.

lukin2006 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Jason P wrote:

As someone pointed out in another thread, gun control in a city doesn't work. Since criminal elements can easily go outside the city limits, it does primarily effect the law-abiding citizen.

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents. But don't worry. The NRA will ensure that will never happen.

gun runners from mexico Canada and other countries would have a lock on the black market for guns just as Al Capon had on booze during Prohibition which would cause wars between the family's profiting from that trade and the police would be up to their nutz in it not to mention the already over populated prison system would be bankrupt, Americans love their gun's and will never give them up..as the bumper sticker read "you can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers off the trigger" guns are a great part of this countries history they are not going anywhere.

Godfather.

Gun runners from Canada, really, do have any facts to support this claim. A few facts hand gun ownership is extremely regulated and has been since the 30's, long gun ownership is regulated and has been since the 90's.

Most illegal guns in our country come from the US.

sorry to offend you, what I mean is canada can be used as port of entry since the border is very long and has ez ocean access and a ez path to the united states in many areas,Detroit is just across the bay right ?

Godfather.

Godfather.

Shawshank wrote:

Jason P wrote:

But federal implementation of a national ban would have an effect on both criminal and law-abiding citizens. If handgun production was to cease today and it was illegal to own one, even with the tremendous number of existing guns out there, I think over 10 years you would see a dramatic reduction in gun related deaths and accidents.

Just like we've seen such a dramatic reduction in the trafficking of drugs, just like we saw a dramatic reduction in alcohol consumption and availability when prohibition was in place. Blackmarket empires are born out of Federal regulation and restriction.

Shawshank is right,Al Capone and the Mafia did it and made millions during the liquor ban..just for an example.

Godfather.

Shawshank

Jason P wrote:

I'm not totally disagreeing with you but I would like to point out that both alcohol and drugs create addiction in the user's mind. Guns are just pieces of metal, although some say shooting and collecting them does become addictive, although I would argue against withdrawal symptoms.

My case-in-point on how a federal ban would affect us: Fully automatic weapons

I don't hear too many stories of fully automatic weapons being used in crimes. I don't know what the black market is for them but I imagine it caters to a select list of clients. I also don't know anyone personally who has one . . . and I have a lot of friends that have 30+ guns. Therefore, I would argue that the ban on assault weapons has been effective. (pretty scientific, eh? )

Fully automatic weapons are out there, but they aren't needed for your basic home invasion or robbery, nor are they needed for defense. The mentality of most people is they keep guns for protection. So if guns are banned, normally law-abiding citizens will find a way to procure them, and that will involve the blackmarket. Simple as that. I know many here see that as being barbaric and uncivilized but that is the unfortunate reality of our world. Do I want to live in a world where I feel like I need to have a gun? Hell to the f*cking NO! Do I want to be on an even playing field with the scumbags who will get them and possibly use them against my family? YES!

Jason P

Shawshank wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I'm not totally disagreeing with you but I would like to point out that both alcohol and drugs create addiction in the user's mind. Guns are just pieces of metal, although some say shooting and collecting them does become addictive, although I would argue against withdrawal symptoms.

My case-in-point on how a federal ban would affect us: Fully automatic weapons

I don't hear too many stories of fully automatic weapons being used in crimes. I don't know what the black market is for them but I imagine it caters to a select list of clients. I also don't know anyone personally who has one . . . and I have a lot of friends that have 30+ guns. Therefore, I would argue that the ban on assault weapons has been effective. (pretty scientific, eh? )

Fully automatic weapons are out there, but they aren't needed for your basic home invasion or robbery, nor are they needed for defense. The mentality of most people is they keep guns for protection. So if guns are banned, normally law-abiding citizens will find a way to procure them, and that will involve the blackmarket. Simple as that. I know many here see that as being barbaric and uncivilized but that is the unfortunate reality of our world. Do I want to live in a world where I feel like I need to have a gun? Hell to the f*cking NO! Do I want to be on an even playing field with the scumbags who will get them and possibly use them against my family? YES!

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . I own several rifles and a handgun. I wasn't really coming at this issue from a anti-gun platform but I do think the changes would be drastic with a federal ban and I don't think the black market could operate as profitable as the drug runners. People perform sexual favors, steal, and ruin their families and minds for drugs. And they provide repeat business, week after week.

I do think that the black market would see a major increase but it would not be able to keep up with the demand. Large inventories of weapons are much harder to transport and distribute then drugs. Plus, as any gun-owner knows, ammunition suppliers can't even keep up with the current demand under legal conditions. How could a black market operate more efficiently? Anyway, this is all fantasy talk because guns will never be taken away, no matter what propaganda and fear the NRA spews to fill their coffers.

I do think that gun ownership should be looked at as a privilege, as well as a right. And I believe that weapons that are linked to violent crime, such as handguns should only be a privilege. And I would support more safe-guards and even a mental evaluation for hand-gun purchases. But that's just me.

eyedclaar

Jason P wrote:

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . .

While I agree with the rest of what you said, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Coming from the Idaho, Wyoming portion/perspective ofthe world, I will tell you it is the exact opposite. Dumb ass drunk hillbillies shooting anything that moves is more like it. In fact, I have been to 'gun parties' in Wyoming that would terrify almost all of you. I too own guns, lots of them, AND I know what I'm doing, but I do not trust the average gun owner at all.

Jason P

eyedclaar wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . .

While I agree with the rest of what you said, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Coming from the Idaho, Wyoming portion/perspective ofthe world, I will tell you it is the exact opposite. Dumb ass drunk hillbillies shooting anything that moves is more like it. In fact, I have been to 'gun parties' in Wyoming that would terrify almost all of you. I too own guns, lots of them, AND I know what I'm doing, but I do not trust the average gun owner at all.

Yeah, I should have included "that I know" to the end of the sentence.

I've been to Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming before and I would agree that it is much more frontier like. And that probably attracts more hillbillies and militia types. I remember stopping at a grocery store in Kalispell and besides the workers, I was the only one without a side-arm in the store! I'm guessing hold-ups were a little more rare in that town.

chadwick

eyedclaar wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . .

While I agree with the rest of what you said, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Coming from the Idaho, Wyoming portion/perspective ofthe world, I will tell you it is the exact opposite. Dumb ass drunk hillbillies shooting anything that moves is more like it. In fact, I have been to 'gun parties' in Wyoming that would terrify almost all of you. I too own guns, lots of them, AND I know what I'm doing, but I do not trust the average gun owner at all.

i have been to parties just like the ones you are speaking of.
i couldn't take it anymore.
i went inside the house and prayed no one got shot.
our property was a firing range for dad's bullshit co-workers and our family & friends.
oddly enough out of 4,127 people only 6 of us are professionals.

9mm's, 20 & 12 gauge shotguns, high power rifles like 30/30's, 30.06's, m16's,
25-5/.45's, .357's, 22's, colt 45's, and one antique .38, ect, ect.
this was our backyard on any given day.
add whiskey, beer, weed, a bonfire, and surly prison guards and you have stupid bullshit.

it's ridiculous that a person can own a gun and not have a clue how to use it safely.

thank god i was properly raised around guns.
my dad would whip my ass if i were not safe with a gun.
i knew better.
i'm not playin games.

i will howver blow up an old car or play crash up derby in the near by field.

blackredyellow

chadwick wrote:

eyedclaar wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I fully understand that the majority of gun owners are very responsible people . . . .

While I agree with the rest of what you said, I absolutely do not agree with this statement. Coming from the Idaho, Wyoming portion/perspective ofthe world, I will tell you it is the exact opposite. Dumb ass drunk hillbillies shooting anything that moves is more like it. In fact, I have been to 'gun parties' in Wyoming that would terrify almost all of you. I too own guns, lots of them, AND I know what I'm doing, but I do not trust the average gun owner at all.

i have been to parties just like the ones you are speaking of.
i couldn't take it anymore.
i went inside the house and prayed no one got shot.
our property was a firing range for dad's bullshit co-workers and our family & friends.
oddly enough out of 4,127 people only 6 of us are professionals.

9mm's, 20 & 12 gauge shotguns, high power rifles like 30/30's, 30.06's, m16's,
25-5/.45's, .357's, 22's, colt 45's, and one antique .38, ect, ect.
this was our backyard on any given day.
add whiskey, beer, weed, a bonfire, and surly prison guards and you have stupid bullshit.

it's ridiculous that a person can own a gun and not have a clue how to use it safely.

thank god i was properly raised around guns.
my dad would whip my ass if i were not safe with a gun.
i knew better.
i'm not playin games.

i will howver blow up an old car or play crash up derby in the near by field.

Maybe it's a geographical thing then... I grew up in rural western Pennsylvania. My father & brother hunt, my parents families hunt (even the women), just about everyone I grew up with had hunters in their family. Hell, the first day of buck season was (maybe still is) a school holiday.

I would say that the vast majority of the people I know from there are gun owners... and most of them are normal, responsible people.

chadwick

blackredyellow wrote:

Maybe it's a geographical thing then... I grew up in rural western Pennsylvania. My father & brother hunt, my parents families hunt (even the women), just about everyone I grew up with had hunters in their family. Hell, the first day of buck season was (maybe still is) a school holiday.

I would say that the vast majority of the people I know from there are gun owners... and most of them are normal, responsible people.

it sure is.
you gonna tell a missouri frickin hillbilly he can't own a gun?
he will laugh at you while spitting chewing tobacco shit on your foot.
that's when you'll notice he has 3 teeth.

he may have only 3 teeth in is face but he has 32 guns in his 4x4 truck.

norm

hey, without automatic weapons we wouldn't have this glorious piece of video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KmAOtkKf00

chadwick

norm wrote:

hey, without automatic weapons we wouldn't have this glorious piece of video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KmAOtkKf00

that is insane, norm.
this one is for you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooGrI0FHkU

catefrances

Shawshank wrote:

catefrances wrote:

no not like every country. australia didnt become her own nation through war like the US did.

No, not through an "official" war, but before you get too high on the morality horse, it's important to note that much like the Europeans who came to the U.S. and decimated the Native Americans, Europeans who colonized Australia did their best to wipe out Aboriginals through murder and even attempted genocide. Also, Australians where never under the subjugation of the British Empire in the way that the American Colonies were. Britain had learned it's lesson from the pounding it received during the American Revolutionary War. The policies towards it's colonies eased a bit, and the Crown was not so much of a hard ass to it's subjects afterward.

you misunderstand me. im on no moral high horse here, just stating a fact. im not speaking of colonisation of america or australia. what im referring to is the formation of both our countries as nations. ie the war of independence and australian federation. i am fully aware we share the same kind of settler prenation history so to speak. there would never have been war of independence here. im not coming down on the american colonies for waging their independence war. just trying to gauge where your gun culture originated and imo it was here. and your 2nd amendment all but confirms it. the war of independence is why the 2nd amendment exists. not directly due to the war but for the need to defend the fledgling nation that was born of the war against all enemies foreign and domestic. i have no doubt had the colonies of australia needed to fight for their autonomy, our attitude towards guns would be different. we were fortunate that britain is so far away and that it was a different time.