If McChrystal avoids getting sacked, he should consider himself lucky. I think it is well known that generals are not allowed to criticize the commander-in-chief, no matter if he is doing a crappy job of supporting his efforts. General MacAurthor was sacked by Truman after he wrote a critical letter during the Korean War.
Also, why in the hell he was letting Rolling Stone interview him is beyond stupid. That would be like Peyton Manning hiring a Boston Globe writer to publish his autobiography.
...
The problem with Gen. McArthur was, he wanted to fight the Korean War the same way the Wars in Europe and the Pacific were fought... all out war. The Korean War was closer to a limited, police action than a war... with demlitarized zones and diplomats arguing behind the scenes with words. This was something McArthur didn't like, fighting with his hands tied. McArthur was convinved that the victory, as in the recent past wars, was the only option.
But, there was a huge game changer in effect in 1951 that wasn't in 1942... nuclear weapons. McArthur was authorized to use nuclear weapons against China if attacks were launched from their borders.
A commander who wants only victory... armed with nuclear weapons... against an adversary who has nuclear weapons... run the numbers. Is the risk too great?
You are spot on about the "real" reasons he was sacked but I believe the Korean War was much more then a limited police action. Limited police actions don't result in 37,000 G.I.s getting killed along with hundreds of thousands of Korean solders and civilians. But, since congress didn't actually declare war, that is what is was referred to. Sorta like the Vietnam "conflict" . . .
...
Both the Korean War and the Viet Nam war were police actions. Undeclared wars to protect America's best interests at the forefront and our active role in policing the 'peace'. Police actions in the sense that crossing this imaginary line defined on a map was out of bounds, limiting the use of force and restricting certain strategies and tactics. And a hell of a lot of people died in Viet Nam.
People do die in a police state or a police action.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The question that people need to answer is this, "Is General McChrystal doing an effective job in Afghanistan, Yes/No?"
Answer that and keep the political bullshit out of it.
Generals may question Washington, but do they follow the chain of command? Privates and Sargents question their commanders all the time... they may also think their commanders have their heads up their asses or are dipshits... BUT, they follow their orders. It works like that all the way up the chain.
... The other question you have to ask is... why is it okay to question a President during wartime today... but from 2003-2008 it was considered to be 'Unpatriotic'? What has changed?
Look how fast Obama is having a meeting this time yet it took him months to meet with the General when he became President…. I don’t think this is a left or right issue…it’s more of… is the President qualified for the job or not issue……wrong is wrong
good grief..I think you are over reacting you act like this is the first time this has ever happend, this man Mr.McChrystal is under great pressure and putting his balls on the line for his/our country,I agree he should have kept his opinion to him self but lets not get carried away I mean after all a lot of people agree with him so lets cut him a break and let him do his job I don't think it will happen again.
Godfather.
"so lets cut him a break and let him do his job I don't think it will happen again"
are you talkin about covering up a "friendly fire" death of one of his soldiers, lying to that soldiers' family, and selling to the media a story that attempts to make him a poster boy for his war?
or just the insubordination?
.
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Look how fast Obama is having a meeting this time yet it took him months to meet with the General when he became President…. I don’t think this is a left or right issue…it’s more of… is the President qualified for the job or not issue……wrong is wrong
Do you just spout talking points, or do you actually know anything about military personnel, especially, career military people. General McChrystal was out of line. President Obama is the Commander-in-Chief of the United States of America and regardless of how General McChrystal ‘personally’ felt about the Obama Administration, as long as he serves as an ‘active’ General in the United States military it was not his place or anyone under his command to publically criticize the military policies, actions, or activities of the United States government. To do this in the mist of an active ‘war zone’ is less than honorable.
I agree with cincy, it was disgraceful. General McChrystal should turn in his resignation and President Obama should accept such.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
good grief..I think you are over reacting you act like this is the first time this has ever happend, this man Mr.McChrystal is under great pressure and putting his balls on the line for his/our country,I agree he should have kept his opinion to him self but lets not get carried away I mean after all a lot of people agree with him so lets cut him a break and let him do his job I don't think it will happen again.
Godfather.
"so lets cut him a break and let him do his job I don't think it will happen again"
are you talkin about covering up a "friendly fire" death of one of his soldiers, lying to that soldiers' family, and selling to the media a story that attempts to make him a poster boy for his war?
or just the insubordination?
.
gawd you are freaking idiot...please do not reply to my posts,be a good boy and go play in the freeway.
Obama is getting hit with crap left and right- I am starting to believe that the right wont be happy till they see our President /country fail. So much hate is being spread all over the blogs/net/media, regarding this issue - The right feels McChrystal did nothing wrong and they support McChrystal's actions....
This affects the morale of the troops- this affects the image of our leader, it creates havoc with in our country, and a ton of side tracking/B.S issues to deal with; As if we didn't already have so many real issues to deal with.
I hope Obama slaps this guy and makes sure this idiot is removed immediately. The right wont be happy until we double the deaths of 9/11 - In a war that has no purpose and that has no end. Obama wants to try and pull out (at least a huge percentage) and these donkey Conservatives just want death and destruction...
First off you do not make it to become a Four Star General by being an idiot. Second Obama just deployed 30,000 more soldiers to Afghanistan, so "pulling out" not so much.
Another thing what McChrystal did was wrong, but that man has probably done more good for this country then anyone on this board.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Obama is getting hit with crap left and right- I am starting to believe that the right wont be happy till they see our President /country fail. So much hate is being spread all over the blogs/net/media, regarding this issue - The right feels McChrystal did nothing wrong and they support McChrystal's actions....
This affects the morale of the troops- this affects the image of our leader, it creates havoc with in our country, and a ton of side tracking/B.S issues to deal with; As if we didn't already have so many real issues to deal with.
I hope Obama slaps this guy and makes sure this idiot is removed immediately. The right wont be happy until we double the deaths of 9/11 - In a war that has no purpose and that has no end. Obama wants to try and pull out (at least a huge percentage) and these donkey Conservatives just want death and destruction...
First off you do not make it to become a Four Star General by being an idiot. Second Obama just deployed 30,000 more soldiers to Afghanistan, so "pulling out" not so much.
Another thing what McChrystal did was wrong, but that man has probably done more good for this country then anyone on this board.
Probably so, but this is a big screw up. And there are consequences to your actions. He displayed a chink in his leadership ability....a big chink...and now his services are required elsewhere.
Obama is getting hit with crap left and right- I am starting to believe that the right wont be happy till they see our President /country fail. So much hate is being spread all over the blogs/net/media, regarding this issue - The right feels McChrystal did nothing wrong and they support McChrystal's actions....
This affects the morale of the troops- this affects the image of our leader, it creates havoc with in our country, and a ton of side tracking/B.S issues to deal with; As if we didn't already have so many real issues to deal with.
I hope Obama slaps this guy and makes sure this idiot is removed immediately. The right wont be happy until we double the deaths of 9/11 - In a war that has no purpose and that has no end. Obama wants to try and pull out (at least a huge percentage) and these donkey Conservatives just want death and destruction...
that man has probably done more good for this country then anyone on this board.
Probably so, but this is a big screw up. And there are consequences to your actions. He displayed a chink in his leadership ability....a big chink...and now his services are required elsewhere.
I really hope that the person 5th in the chain of command has done more for our country then someone on this board! :roll:
He insulted/disrespected the Chain of Command of this Nation. He embarrassed the President of The United States of America (his Boss). If McChrystal doesn't feel that he can complete the mission Obama wants, then he should communicate that to Obama and step down- Don't go insulting this nations chain of command to Rolling Stone Magazine. I am sure the enemy will use this as a sign of hope- I am sure this will bring some serious doubts and confusion to our troops.
McChrystal is responsible for 90,000 of our brave men and women - and Obama is responsible for the entire nation - He doesn't need crap distractions like this when he is dealing with other major issues.
news stations are saying he has been relieved of his command.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
To me this is not a left and right issue. I'm glad this guy said what he said. And for people to give this guy shit for is crazy. I'm not a repub and I'm not a dem. This guy gets the "biggest balls" award. All ways question your govnerment! If you don't agree with something say something about it! Always stand up for what you believe in! Get this fucking war over with. War should not last years. Do what needs to be done and get the fuck out.
To me this is not a left and right issue. I'm glad this guy said what he said. And for people to give this guy shit for is crazy. I'm not a repub and I'm not a dem. This guy gets the "biggest balls" award. All ways question your govnerment! If you don't agree with something say something about it! Always stand up for what you believe in! Get this fucking war over with. War should not last years. Do what needs to be done and get the fuck out.
disclaimer: I haven't read the entire Rolling Stone article, I'm just going off of AP and other news sources...
But from what I read, it's not like he was "standing up for what he believed it", or disagreed with policy or whatever... it was basically him bitching about civilian leadership and badmouthing specific people. That is out of line and really has no place.
Now if he said specific disagreements he had with civilian leadership, that (while still wrong to do) would have been a little more understandable.
It wasn't about questioning government or getting the war over with, it was about complaining about his boss.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
It was the correct thing to do relieving him of his command. I am just curious if this happened during Bush's tenure would all the Obama supporters been saying the same thing.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
It was the correct thing to do relieving him of his command. I am just curious if this happened during Bush's tenure would all the Obama supporters been saying the same thing.
Dunno. I suspect that they wouldn't. The hatred of Bush trump all, even common sense.
To me this is not a left and right issue. I'm glad this guy said what he said. And for people to give this guy shit for is crazy. I'm not a repub and I'm not a dem. This guy gets the "biggest balls" award. All ways question your govnerment! If you don't agree with something say something about it! Always stand up for what you believe in! Get this fucking war over with. War should not last years. Do what needs to be done and get the fuck out.
I don't think anyone is saying keep quite about things, but this guy was 5th in command and he is insulting the nations chain of command.
Obama is trying to end the war and McChrystal didn't agree with Obama's plan. This whole mess puts our nation in a poor position - This guy doesn't have big balls because he gave an interview to Rolling Stone magazine - he has them for serving the country. He's an idiot for insulting our chain of command---
Just imagine what the enemy is thinking now:
Our country is struggling with so many issues, we are more divided today then ever before, America is going broke, we have a Gen. who is undermining our leaders, we have Gen with Health issues now taking control of all operations-- America isn't looking to strong right now and this is simply stupid act.....Dividing us even more!
It was the correct thing to do relieving him of his command. I am just curious if this happened during Bush's tenure would all the Obama supporters been saying the same thing.
I would think so, but I don't know... Like I said earlier, it seemed that this was a personal thing, and that really doesn't have any place at any time.
If in 2005 the commander in Iraq came out and said we should scale down troops or anything to indicate he wanted to get out of the war, then the left would give him hero status... but if he just came out and said personal things about Bush, the reaction would be more closely split (like it is now).
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
To me this is not a left and right issue. I'm glad this guy said what he said. And for people to give this guy shit for is crazy. I'm not a repub and I'm not a dem. This guy gets the "biggest balls" award. All ways question your govnerment! If you don't agree with something say something about it! Always stand up for what you believe in! Get this fucking war over with. War should not last years. Do what needs to be done and get the fuck out.
I don't think anyone is saying keep quite about things, but this guy was 5th in command and he is insulting the nations chain of command. Obama is trying to end the war and McChrystal didn't agree with Obama's plan. This whole mess puts our nation in a poor position - This guy doesn't have big balls because he gave an interview to Rolling Stone magazine - he has them for serving the country. He's an idiot for insulting our chain of command---
Just imagine what the enemy is thinking now:
Our country is struggling with so many issues, we are more divided today then ever before, America is going broke, we have a Gen. who is undermining our leaders, we have Gen with Health issues now taking control of all operations-- America isn't looking to strong right now and this is simply stupid act.....Dividing us even more!
I'm going to disagree with the bold part... Obama hasn't done anything to indicate he wants to end the war in Afghanistan.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Dumb thing to say to the public, but this really shows just how bad Obama must be.
Dumb thing to say? The fact that this can be used to fuel our enemies - is simply "dumb"? We have 90,000 of our troops in harms way- and these comments can easily affect them and all you have to say is "dumb comment..... and it shows how bad Obama must be".... Come on.... Obama is trying to get our troops home and McChrystal doesn't think that can happen-
We'll then tell it to the boss and if you can't do it- step down and let someone else step in. Your endangering our kids who are serving. Yeah ... what a dumb thing to do... :roll:
Dumb thing to say to the public, but this really shows just how bad Obama must be.
Dumb thing to say? The fact that this can be used to fuel our enemies - is simply "dumb"? We have 90,000 of our troops in harms way- and these comments can easily affect them and all you have to say is "dumb comment..... and it shows how bad Obama must be".... Come on.... Obama is trying to get our troops home and McChrystal doesn't think that can happen-
We'll then tell it to the boss and if you can't do it- step down and let someone else step in. Your endangering our kids who are serving. Yeah ... what a dumb thing to do... :roll:
how is Obama trying to get us out with 30,000 more added this past spring?
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Dumb thing to say to the public, but this really shows just how bad Obama must be.
Dumb thing to say? The fact that this can be used to fuel our enemies - is simply "dumb"? We have 90,000 of our troops in harms way- and these comments can easily affect them and all you have to say is "dumb comment..... and it shows how bad Obama must be".... Come on.... Obama is trying to get our troops home and McChrystal doesn't think that can happen-
We'll then tell it to the boss and if you can't do it- step down and let someone else step in. Your endangering our kids who are serving. Yeah ... what a dumb thing to do... :roll:
how is Obama trying to get us out with 30,000 more added this past spring?
Obama wants to start getting us out by next summer- The additional troops were requested by McChrystal, in order to achieve Obama's objective. MrChrystal doesn't agree with that ... He's like the majority of the right wing nuts who feel the US should have 90,000 troops remain for an additional 8 years!
General McChrystal turned in his resignation and President Obama has accepted such. General Petraeus is the new person in charge.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Dumb thing to say to the public, but this really shows just how bad Obama must be.
Dumb thing to say? The fact that this can be used to fuel our enemies - is simply "dumb"? We have 90,000 of our troops in harms way- and these comments can easily affect them and all you have to say is "dumb comment..... and it shows how bad Obama must be".... Come on.... Obama is trying to get our troops home and McChrystal doesn't think that can happen-
We'll then tell it to the boss and if you can't do it- step down and let someone else step in. Your endangering our kids who are serving. Yeah ... what a dumb thing to do... :roll:
how is Obama trying to get us out with 30,000 more added this past spring?
According to the general's top secret report that was leaked by the Washington Post:
"Failure to provide adequate resources also risks a longer conflict, greater casualties, higher overall costs, and ultimately, a critical loss of political support. Any of these risks, in turn, are likely to result in mission failure."
Anyone in the military is restricted from free speech when it comes to talking to the media. It is NOT ALLOWED. Anyone in the military can tell you this, so of course the guy will be fired for doing so.
Comments
Both the Korean War and the Viet Nam war were police actions. Undeclared wars to protect America's best interests at the forefront and our active role in policing the 'peace'. Police actions in the sense that crossing this imaginary line defined on a map was out of bounds, limiting the use of force and restricting certain strategies and tactics. And a hell of a lot of people died in Viet Nam.
People do die in a police state or a police action.
Hail, Hail!!!
bingo
Your quote is wrong:
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lincoln/prosperity.asp
"so lets cut him a break and let him do his job I don't think it will happen again"
are you talkin about covering up a "friendly fire" death of one of his soldiers, lying to that soldiers' family, and selling to the media a story that attempts to make him a poster boy for his war?
or just the insubordination?
.
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Do you just spout talking points, or do you actually know anything about military personnel, especially, career military people. General McChrystal was out of line. President Obama is the Commander-in-Chief of the United States of America and regardless of how General McChrystal ‘personally’ felt about the Obama Administration, as long as he serves as an ‘active’ General in the United States military it was not his place or anyone under his command to publically criticize the military policies, actions, or activities of the United States government. To do this in the mist of an active ‘war zone’ is less than honorable.
I agree with cincy, it was disgraceful. General McChrystal should turn in his resignation and President Obama should accept such.
gawd you are freaking idiot...please do not reply to my posts,be a good boy and go play in the freeway.
Godfther,
First off you do not make it to become a Four Star General by being an idiot. Second Obama just deployed 30,000 more soldiers to Afghanistan, so "pulling out" not so much.
Another thing what McChrystal did was wrong, but that man has probably done more good for this country then anyone on this board.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Probably so, but this is a big screw up. And there are consequences to your actions. He displayed a chink in his leadership ability....a big chink...and now his services are required elsewhere.
I really hope that the person 5th in the chain of command has done more for our country then someone on this board! :roll:
He insulted/disrespected the Chain of Command of this Nation. He embarrassed the President of The United States of America (his Boss). If McChrystal doesn't feel that he can complete the mission Obama wants, then he should communicate that to Obama and step down- Don't go insulting this nations chain of command to Rolling Stone Magazine. I am sure the enemy will use this as a sign of hope- I am sure this will bring some serious doubts and confusion to our troops.
McChrystal is responsible for 90,000 of our brave men and women - and Obama is responsible for the entire nation - He doesn't need crap distractions like this when he is dealing with other major issues.
My opinion- Fire his Ass!
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Gen. David Petraeus is stepping in.
As it should be.
disclaimer: I haven't read the entire Rolling Stone article, I'm just going off of AP and other news sources...
But from what I read, it's not like he was "standing up for what he believed it", or disagreed with policy or whatever... it was basically him bitching about civilian leadership and badmouthing specific people. That is out of line and really has no place.
Now if he said specific disagreements he had with civilian leadership, that (while still wrong to do) would have been a little more understandable.
It wasn't about questioning government or getting the war over with, it was about complaining about his boss.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Dunno. I suspect that they wouldn't. The hatred of Bush trump all, even common sense.
I don't think anyone is saying keep quite about things, but this guy was 5th in command and he is insulting the nations chain of command.
Obama is trying to end the war and McChrystal didn't agree with Obama's plan. This whole mess puts our nation in a poor position - This guy doesn't have big balls because he gave an interview to Rolling Stone magazine - he has them for serving the country. He's an idiot for insulting our chain of command---
Just imagine what the enemy is thinking now:
Our country is struggling with so many issues, we are more divided today then ever before, America is going broke, we have a Gen. who is undermining our leaders, we have Gen with Health issues now taking control of all operations-- America isn't looking to strong right now and this is simply stupid act.....Dividing us even more!
I would think so, but I don't know... Like I said earlier, it seemed that this was a personal thing, and that really doesn't have any place at any time.
If in 2005 the commander in Iraq came out and said we should scale down troops or anything to indicate he wanted to get out of the war, then the left would give him hero status... but if he just came out and said personal things about Bush, the reaction would be more closely split (like it is now).
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I'm going to disagree with the bold part... Obama hasn't done anything to indicate he wants to end the war in Afghanistan.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Time for the white house to take out HELP WANTED ads in the local recycler to end the war in Afghanistan.
Dumb thing to say? The fact that this can be used to fuel our enemies - is simply "dumb"? We have 90,000 of our troops in harms way- and these comments can easily affect them and all you have to say is "dumb comment..... and it shows how bad Obama must be".... Come on.... Obama is trying to get our troops home and McChrystal doesn't think that can happen-
We'll then tell it to the boss and if you can't do it- step down and let someone else step in. Your endangering our kids who are serving. Yeah ... what a dumb thing to do... :roll:
how is Obama trying to get us out with 30,000 more added this past spring?
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Obama wants to start getting us out by next summer- The additional troops were requested by McChrystal, in order to achieve Obama's objective. MrChrystal doesn't agree with that ... He's like the majority of the right wing nuts who feel the US should have 90,000 troops remain for an additional 8 years!
No shit.
laughing out load!!
"Failure to provide adequate resources also risks a longer conflict, greater casualties, higher overall costs, and ultimately, a critical loss of political support. Any of these risks, in turn, are likely to result in mission failure."