I'm conflicted about the idea of patriotism

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I am a Canadian, who are, by some, defined as a very unpatriotic people. Which actually makes me somewhat proud, as I find that caring for all humanity and the globe to be way more important that my government's self interest. We were then shown to be growing in patriotism after the last winter games this year in Vancouver. But I think that has passed.

You won't see houses adorned with Canadian flags everywhere you go, at least not where I go.

I can say in the same breath that I'm proud to be a Canadian, but that it's mainly just a product of geographical location of where I was born. I mean, I'm sure if I was born in Minnesota I'd love being an American.

I mean, didn't patriotism start with man drawing invisible lines all over the globe, showing the world what he 'owned'? Kinda like a dog peeing on a tree, in my opinion.

I just want to point out that defending one's culture and being patriotic, to me, are too completely different entities. I support the idea of defending one's way of life, but invisible lines on a plastic ball? I just don't get it.

I'm not knocking patriotism. I just don't get it. I'd like to hear the thoughts of others (not just Americans) who are patriotic. I'm interested in their point of view.

JonnyPistachio

I'm really not sure where I stand on it either. However, I think some (hopefully a minimal amount) people rally around patriotism because of harsh criticism of their country. I find many US citizens are highly patriotic because we are hated by many. Look at these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- Bush thought he wold erradicate the extremists, when he might just be creating a whole new bunch.

polaris_x

i am canadian ... i am proud of many aspects of this country that define to me what it is to be canadian ... having said that - i am not adverse to criticizing our country especially on how we are represented on a global scale ... i am ashamed to be canadian when our leaders actively go forth and act as a deterrent to progressive changes and side against humanity ...

i also realize that me being canadian isn't necessarily reflective of the actions of the current gov't ...

blackredyellow

Yeah.. I don't get the overboard people... I was born in the US, and have lived here my whole life... I love this country for the opportunities that I've had, the people I've met, some of the wonderful things our citizens have done, and the beautiful (and wide range of) climate, wildlife, nature, etc that this country has.

But, would my life be any different/less fulfilling if I lived in Canada or Australia or Europe? If I was born there, they I wouldn't know any different, so no, and after visiting (never been to Australia), people I've met are as happy as I am with where they live.

Granted, second/third world countries are different, but if my family and I moved to another western country, after the initial adjustment, our life would most likely be as good as we are used to now.

redrock

You need to define what patriotism means to you. Base definition would be such a love and devotion to your country that you are willing to sacrifice yourself for it. I would say patriotism is blind and even a bit extremist.

Being proud of your country is not a bad thing and I don't believe has anything to do with patriotism. Of course you may see this as a contradiction if you feel you are 'part of the world' and don't believe in imaginary lines drawn up by men pushed by greed but..... your country and its people is what you associate yourself with (by default), especially if you have lived there all your life. You can be proud of it's achievements, it's beauty, it's people, etc. But you can also be critical of it.

I'm not patriotic, I've lived all over the place and do not associate myself with a geographical location. My father had a career in the military but he didn't consider himself patriotic.

he still stands

"Are you proud to be an American?"

"Well... my parents fucked there. I didn't have much to do with it..."

patriotism makes me want to puke.

flywallyfly

To me patriotism is an idea force fed to us from a young age so that when we are older we willingly will cross the globe to die for the corporations running this country.

Jason P

I consider it to be thankful and devoted to your nation. Politics however use the word to fit their needs, agenda and to control, therefore some people cringe when they hear the word.

I'm thankful for growing up in the states . . . however I would not be willing to lay my life down for it unless we were under invasion from Canada.

FiveB247x

Anything in life that is in extreme forms is bad. Nothing wrong about loving you nation or it's history, culture and customs, etc... but fanatical, it leads to problems.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

redrock wrote:

You need to define what patriotism means to you. Base definition would be such a love and devotion to your country that you are willing to sacrifice yourself for it. I would say patriotism is blind and even a bit extremist.

Being proud of your country is not a bad thing and I don't believe has anything to do with patriotism. Of course you may see this as a contradiction if you feel you are 'part of the world' and don't believe in imaginary lines drawn up by men pushed by greed but..... your country and its people is what you associate yourself with (by default), especially if you have lived there all your life. You can be proud of it's achievements, it's beauty, it's people, etc. But you can also be critical of it.

I'm not patriotic, I've lived all over the place and do not associate myself with a geographical location. My father had a career in the military but he didn't consider himself patriotic.

to me the definition of patriotism is blind devotion to your home country. I think sometimes that Canadian patriotism has more to do with what we ARE NOT as a people rather than what we ARE as a people.

I also love the stereotype that we as Canadians have with the rest of the world. Peaceful, friendly, beer drinkers, party-ers, neighbourly, etc. Of course, there's just as many assholes here as any other country, but I still like the Canadian image.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Jason P wrote:

I consider it to be thankful and devoted to your nation. Politics however use the word to fit their needs, agenda and to control, therefore some people cringe when they hear the word.

I'm thankful for growing up in the states . . . however I would not be willing to lay my life down for it unless we were under invasion from Canada.

come on, you know you could use a little Canadian in ya, don't ya think?

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I'm really not sure where I stand on it either. However, I think some (hopefully a minimal amount) people rally around patriotism because of harsh criticism of their country. I find many US citizens are highly patriotic because we are hated by many. Look at these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- Bush thought he wold erradicate the extremists, when he might just be creating a whole new bunch.

Some interesting thoughts here.

JohnnyP said: "I find many US citizens are highly patriotic because we are hated by many."

On the contrary, I feel the US is hated by many, B/C we are so patriotic.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, and all that.

I love Kornheiser though: "Goodnite Cananda!" (PTI)

riddled with metaphors

flywallyfly wrote:

To me patriotism is an idea force fed to us from a young age so that when we are older we willingly will cross the globe to die for the corporations running this country.

I agree that patriotism is is kinda pushed upon us to help support the interests which seem to really only benefit the people in the world that are rich or in power positions. That being said I for one am not about to lay my life down for them. Many have died for what they believed was the freedom of their families and their descendants. That may be the case in the early days of war and I do feel very fortunate to live in this country because there are so many things that the government does for us that we take for granted each and every day. It seems that the wars these days have nothing to do with freedom and everything to do with money.

I can't stand people that are super patriotic and whatnot but I am proud to live in this country because there are a lot of cool people in it. Americans are fun and entertaining and I'm proud to be part of a country that can help make anybody laugh or feel good about themselves. However, we are not the only type of people in this world and I'm not gonna fly a flag because we are better at being the greatest country than any other one.

I would be proud of living in the middle of the ocean just as long as I was in good company.

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes

Riddled w/ metaphors said : "there are so many things that the government does for us that we take for granted each and every day."

What kind of things?

Godfather.

if not for the men and women that founded our nations and the men and women that keep them free who knows where we'd be right now...maybe living in a place where war is in your front yard everyday
and has been for hundreds of years, you only have to watch the news from time to time to see how lucky we are to live in the country's we live in and have the patriotic men and women to defend us and allow us our freedom opinion and voice to use as we see fit.

Godfather.

Godfather.

he still stands wrote:

"Are you proud to be an American?"

"Well... my parents fucked there. I didn't have much to do with it..."

patriotism makes me want to puke.

:? what ever you say....

Godfather.

Moonpig

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I'm really not sure where I stand on it either. However, I think some (hopefully a minimal amount) people rally around patriotism because of harsh criticism of their country. I find many US citizens are highly patriotic because we are hated by many. Look at these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- Bush thought he wold erradicate the extremists, when he might just be creating a whole new bunch.

Some interesting thoughts here.

JohnnyP said: "I find many US citizens are highly patriotic because we are hated by many."

On the contrary, I feel the US is hated by many, B/C we are so patriotic.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, and all that.

I love Kornheiser though: "Goodnite Cananda!" (PTI)

So you believe that the US are hated because they are so patriotic? Come on man that is a very silly statement, and is precisley the type of thinking that adds to other peoples views on the US.

Patriotism is over rated - and I'm really not so sure that the US really is that patriotic to begin with, outside of the bible belt that is. History has shown us what blind submission to "The nation's cause" has shown us.

And for the record - it's the "we're right and you're wrong" mentality that your previous administration peddled, the last 8 years, which damaged world relations, certainly not americans being so patriotic - lol

By the way - FOX news is not a source of balanced news, never has been, unfortunatly that seems to be the case for most main news streams in the US, so if you want balance, log on and let lose.

riddled with metaphors

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes wrote:

Riddled w/ metaphors said : "there are so many things that the government does for us that we take for granted each and every day."

What kind of things?

They keep our highways drivable so you can go visit Aunt Sally and Uncle Jim on the weekend. There would be no highways if it wasn't for Dwight Eisenhowere. Help you get student loans so you can educate yourself. Free public libraries, the FDA, DMV, FAA, 911 just to name a few.

There are plenty of things that the government does not do for us that we feel they should or maybe they can't right now but that's the cold hard truth. Ain't nothing perfect in this world we all know that. And I hate the government.

riddled with metaphors

Moonpig wrote:

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I'm really not sure where I stand on it either. However, I think some (hopefully a minimal amount) people rally around patriotism because of harsh criticism of their country. I find many US citizens are highly patriotic because we are hated by many. Look at these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- Bush thought he wold erradicate the extremists, when he might just be creating a whole new bunch.

Some interesting thoughts here.

JohnnyP said: "I find many US citizens are highly patriotic because we are hated by many."

On the contrary, I feel the US is hated by many, B/C we are so patriotic.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, and all that.

I love Kornheiser though: "Goodnite Cananda!" (PTI)

So you believe that the US are hated because they are so patriotic? Come on man that is a very silly statement, and is precisley the type of thinking that adds to other peoples views on the US.

Patriotism is over rated - and I'm really not so sure that the US really is that patriotic to begin with, outside of the bible belt that is. History has shown us what blind submission to "The nation's cause" has shown us.

And for the record - it's the "we're right and you're wrong" mentality that your previous administration peddled, the last 8 years, which damaged world relations, certainly not americans being so patriotic - lol

By the way - FOX news is not a source of balanced news, never has been, unfortunatly that seems to be the case for most main news streams in the US, so if you want balance, log on and let lose.

+1

blackredyellow

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes wrote:

Riddled w/ metaphors said : "there are so many things that the government does for us that we take for granted each and every day."

What kind of things?

just off the top of my head...

roads/highways
ensure that our homes/buildings are safely built and maintained (building codes)
don't allow employers to exploit workers
ensure that our food, medicine, etc is safe (99% of the time)
our money is insured at our banks

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes

When the Gov't tries to do everything, they do nothing well.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes wrote:

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, and all that.

this is precisely the attitude that I DO NOT like.

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes

I like it.

I like being the big kid on the block.

If you want to be part of a failing, tried-again, Socialist experiment, move to Europe.

And if you, like our illegitimate Prez, think that by weakening our position in the world, countries will "like" us again, then you might as well start teaching your kids Chinese.

FiveB247x

Patriotism has nothing to do with anything you listed here. What you're referring too is your specific national pride, not patriotism as a whole. If everyone thinks too highly of their own nation, it leads to wars and problems.

And I find it funny when people throw around the old "teach your kid to speak x" jargon. The last time our nation was invaded by a foreign army who was trying to conquer was in the 1800's. And if you believe this will occur in our modern age, you may need to contact a doctor for help.

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes wrote:

I like it.

I like being the big kid on the block.

If you want to be part of a failing, tried-again, Socialist experiment, move to Europe.

And if you, like our illegitimate Prez, think that by weakening our position in the world, countries will "like" us again, then you might as well start teaching your kids Chinese.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes wrote:

I like it.

I like being the big kid on the block.

If you want to be part of a failing, tried-again, Socialist experiment, move to Europe.

And if you, like our illegitimate Prez, think that by weakening our position in the world, countries will "like" us again, then you might as well start teaching your kids Chinese.

whether the US is the "big kid on the block" or not is irrelevant. It's the fact that you (and many others) are PROUD of being the world's bully is what sickens me.

Illegitimate prez? How is he not legitimate? I'm pretty sure he was voted in without the supreme court getting involved.

polaris_x

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

whether the US is the "big kid on the block" or not is irrelevant. It's the fact that you (and many others) are PROUD of being the world's bully is what sickens me.

Illegitimate prez? How is he not legitimate? I'm pretty sure he was voted in without the supreme court getting involved.

save yourself and respond to people that are worth responding to ... i'm not sure when - but he will soon find himself banned yet again ...

aerial

Godfather. wrote:

if not for the men and women that founded our nations and the men and women that keep them free who knows where we'd be right now...maybe living in a place where war is in your front yard everyday
and has been for hundreds of years, you only have to watch the news from time to time to see how lucky we are to live in the country's we live in and have the patriotic men and women to defend us and allow us our freedom opinion and voice to use as we see fit.

Godfather.

Drowned Out

Patriotism is like religion, or love, or any other emotion-based thought process. Devotion to a (noun) is not a bad thing, unless it is blind and unquestioning....
And...using patriotism or nationalism as an excuse to push one's culture on another is a pretty f'n heinous crime from my moral standpoint. Thing is, most of the people who do so are too stupid to realize they're doing it.

Your Mom Made Me Pancakes

Not the world's bully, it's foremost superpower.

It's not a playground, child.

And look at the censorship by Polaris-X. Let people respond and talk to who they want to.

Godfather.

Drowned Out wrote:

Patriotism is like religion, or love, or any other emotion-based thought process. Devotion to a (noun) is not a bad thing, unless it is blind and unquestioning....
And...using patriotism or nationalism as an excuse to push one's culture on another is a pretty f'n heinous crime from my moral standpoint. Thing is, most of the people who do so are too stupid to realize they're doing it.

I disagree.

Godfather.

he still stands

Godfather. wrote:

Drowned Out wrote:

Patriotism is like religion, or love, or any other emotion-based thought process. Devotion to a (noun) is not a bad thing, unless it is blind and unquestioning....
And...using patriotism or nationalism as an excuse to push one's culture on another is a pretty f'n heinous crime from my moral standpoint. Thing is, most of the people who do so are too stupid to realize they're doing it.

I disagree.

Godfather.

well then, case closed.