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15 years old mexican killed by border patrol

mermelada_alucinogenamermelada_alucinogena Posts: 59
edited June 2010 in A Moving Train
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/ ... 4363.shtml

shame... :cry:
Love ain't Love until you give it up!
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    He was a known smuggler, let's not paint him with some innocent brush.
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    He helped smuggle illegals... not really a crime that you deserve to be shot for, no?


    And video somewhat disputes border patrol claim about being under siege from rock throwing Mexicans...

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/10/texas. ... t=My+Yahoo
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  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    unsung wrote:
    He was a known smuggler, let's not paint him with some innocent brush.

    yeah, kill 'em all. Especially the kids.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    it's always sad to loose a child but don't start pointing fingers, unless you were right there you don't know what happened I'm sure that B/A didn't wake up that morning and think to him self "think I'll go shoot me a 15 year old mexican kid today".

    Godfather.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Godfather. wrote:
    it's always sad to loose a child but don't start pointing fingers, unless you were right there you don't know what happened I'm sure that B/A didn't wake up that morning and think to him self "think I'll go shoot me a 15 year old mexican kid today".

    Godfather.

    for sure ... we need to hear the whole story ...

    but under what conditions do you think it ok to shoot an unarmed 15 year old boy on mexican territory?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    polaris_x wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    it's always sad to loose a child but don't start pointing fingers, unless you were right there you don't know what happened I'm sure that B/A didn't wake up that morning and think to him self "think I'll go shoot me a 15 year old mexican kid today".

    Godfather.

    for sure ... we need to hear the whole story ...

    but under what conditions do you think it ok to shoot an unarmed 15 year old boy on mexican territory?
    I agree. People will have a tendency to view this from an "us vs. them" perspective but I think that is a bad way of viewing this case until we know the facts. Maybe the agent was acting heroically or maybe he was a bad employee with a temper and a trigger finger. That is unknown at this point.

    If anything at most, a few warning shots would have sent a message. It will be interesting to see how this folds out. I would like to know where the agent was when he fired the shots. I heard reports that the kid was hit in the shoulder and head. If he was across the Rio Grande, that is some excellent marksmanship. I own a .40 caliber handgun and they are tricky to be consistent over 25 feet, especially if you are dodging rocks (which he had better been doing).
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  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    polaris_x wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    it's always sad to loose a child but don't start pointing fingers, unless you were right there you don't know what happened I'm sure that B/A didn't wake up that morning and think to him self "think I'll go shoot me a 15 year old mexican kid today".

    Godfather.

    for sure ... we need to hear the whole story ...

    but under what conditions do you think it ok to shoot an unarmed 15 year old boy on mexican territory?

    rocks kill as well as guns..are you trying to bate me into a argument ?

    Godfather.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I heard it's on video that after the shooting mexicans came over to the US side and picked something up then went back to their side.

    Also the FBI was trying to investigate and the mexican troops drew their weapons on the FBI agents.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    I'm having a hard time digesting this.

    Someone involved in an illegal activity certainly puts themselves at risk for just about anything to happen. It's tough to tell from the video what is really happening and how much danger (if any) the officer was in. I dunno...is it just a bad situation where a kid put themselves in harms way by his actions and the result, while sad, isn't all that unexpected and not criminal...or is it an abuse of power, excessive force, and murder.

    And, then...if the border patrol agent acted inappropriately...how much blame should be given to the stress they are under due to the terrible policy, etc.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    edited June 2010
    Godfather. wrote:
    rocks kill as well as guns..are you trying to bate me into a argument ?

    Godfather.

    only you can determine if this is made into an argument ... this is a discussion forum - as we've seen the past few days ... you can either enter into a discussion with politeness and respect and hopefully others will give back that way or you can take everything personally ... that's up to you ...

    it is my opinion that there are no reasonable circumstances that would warrant the killing of a 15 year old boy across the river from where you are ... especially as the 15 year old was unarmed ...

    yes .. rocks can be lethal but under normal circumstances they generally aren't ... especially having to throw them across a river ... edit: railroad tracks
    Post edited by polaris_x on
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    polaris_x wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    rocks kill as well as guns..are you trying to bate me into a argument ?

    Godfather.

    only you can determine if this is made into an argument ... this is a discussion forum - as we've seen the past few days ... you can either enter into a discussion with politeness and respect and hopefully others will give back that way or you can take everything personally ... that's up to you ...

    it is my opinion that there are no reasonable circumstances that would warrant the killing of a 15 year old boy across the river from where you are ... especially as the 15 year old was unarmed ...

    yes .. rocks can be lethal but under normal circumstances they generally aren't ... especially having to throw them across a river ...


    You know, I don;t think his age makes any difference in this. I wonder why people think it does? Behavior and activity are the determining factors.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    cincybearcat wrote:
    You know, I don;t think his age makes any difference in this. I wonder why people think it does? Behavior and activity are the determining factors.

    i agree somewhat but age is always a consideration ... it's why we have juvenile courts and young offenders acts ...

    my point in all of this without trying to judge the circumstances and not knowing the whole story is simply whether or not the death of a boy is warranted where the victim is unarmed ...
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    We knew that this was going to happen at some point. Mexico nor the U.S. is not going to be able to stop people from illegally attempting to cross the border, and with every death the tensions will increase. So now what!!!

    -Should Mexico put troops on the border to protect its citizens?

    -Should Mexico close its border with the US?

    -Should U.S. border patrol and others continue to shoot first and ask questions later.

    We can't keep going down this path without consequences of our actions.


    Then, of course, what happens when North Korea and Iran start shooting first and asking questions later for Americans who ‘illegally’ cross their borders? Will we understand that they were ‘illegals’ and that is why they were shot or will we be calling on the President to start bombing their country?
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    puremagic wrote:

    -Should U.S. border patrol and others continue to shoot first and ask questions later.


    A bit of a stretch don't ya think? You seem to be assuming that this is the policy of the boarder patrol...if it was, they're would be a lot more shootings...everyday.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    puremagic wrote:
    We knew that this was going to happen at some point. Mexico nor the U.S. is not going to be able to stop people from illegally attempting to cross the border, and with every death the tensions will increase. So now what!!!

    -Should Mexico put troops on the border to protect its citizens?

    -Should Mexico close its border with the US?

    -Should U.S. border patrol and others continue to shoot first and ask questions later.

    We can't keep going down this path without consequences of our actions.


    Then, of course, what happens when North Korea and Iran start shooting first and asking questions later for Americans who ‘illegally’ cross their borders? Will we understand that they were ‘illegals’ and that is why they were shot or will we be calling on the President to start bombing their country?

    I read yesterday that Mexico has troops by the border ... They brandished assault rifles at FBI agents who were investigating this particular shooting.
    http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene ... death.html
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    edited June 2010
    These are from the CNN link above:


    -According to the ministry, the number of Mexicans who have been killed or wounded by U.S. border authorities has increased from five in 2008 to 12 in 2009 and 17 so far this year.

    -But Qualia said there were 799 assaults on border agents from October 1, 2009, through May 31 -- up from 745 assaults for the same time period in 2007-08 and 658 for the same span in 2008-09.

    -From October 1 through May 31, he said, Custom and Border Protection agents have used their firearms 31 times.


    A lot of gray area (what is considered an assault, were those killed/wounded attacking agents, etc.), but the number of injured/killed based on the number of altercations/daily interactions seems pretty darn low.

    Of course that is based on numbers, if my son or father or brother or whomever is one of those injured/killed, then it doesn't matter how low the numbers are.

    Sure the are some asshole, trigger happy agents, but there are a majority of good people put in an impossible situation.
    Post edited by blackredyellow on
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    maybe we could put our selfs in the B/A position ? the drug lords have bountys on B/A's and with the attacks made on them by people throwing rocks and shooting at them might make a person a little more cautious in their situation and the mexican people know the drug lords have done this and if the federalies where there why diden't they do something to stop these people (if they were there).
    I'm not saying it's o.k to "shoot first then ask questions" but when a person has that much pressure on them ..a bulls eye on there heads who knows how any of us would act in our own defence, just look back at the killing of federal agents in the past and drug cartels hire kid's younger than 15 to kill or move drugs for them, just saying would you do the same thing as any B/A so that you can go home to your family ant the end of your shift ?

    Godfather.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    An ongoing investigation... I think i'll wait and form an opinion after more of the facts are sorted out.
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  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    cincybearcat wrote:
    puremagic wrote:

    -Should U.S. border patrol and others continue to shoot first and ask questions later.


    A bit of a stretch don't ya think? You seem to be assuming that this is the policy of the boarder patrol...if it was, they're would be a lot more shootings...everyday.

    It’s a stretch only because you chose to take it out of context. I made no assumption of policy or guilt, I asking how do we move forward – when there are always going to be illegal crossings.

    The more shootings, the more tensions – so where do we go from this point and at what cost?
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • the wolfthe wolf Posts: 7,027
    Cosmo wrote:
    An ongoing investigation... I think i'll wait and form an opinion after more of the facts are sorted out.

    now don't go making sense here on the train ! :lol:

    I agree with you. Not enough facts to form an opinion here.
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    to not question your government is unpatriotic."
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    puremagic wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    puremagic wrote:

    -Should U.S. border patrol and others continue to shoot first and ask questions later.


    A bit of a stretch don't ya think? You seem to be assuming that this is the policy of the boarder patrol...if it was, they're would be a lot more shootings...everyday.

    It’s a stretch only because you chose to take it out of context. I made no assumption of policy or guilt, I asking how do we move forward – when there are always going to be illegal crossings.

    The more shootings, the more tensions – so where do we go from this point and at what cost?

    Don't think I took it out of context at all, but maybe I misunderstood you. It seemed to me that you were asking if US border patrol and other continue to shoot first and ask question later...which to me says you think that is the current situation.

    Perhaps you were stating it as ... what will happen if US border patrol started to shoot first as things continue to get worse. If that's the case, I'm sorry I misunderstood.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    Jason P wrote:
    If anything at most, a few warning shots would have sent a message. It will be interesting to see how this folds out. I would like to know where the agent was when he fired the shots. I heard reports that the kid was hit in the shoulder and head. If he was across the Rio Grande, that is some excellent marksmanship. I own a .40 caliber handgun and they are tricky to be consistent over 25 feet, especially if you are dodging rocks (which he had better been doing).

    Not that I do not agree, but from my experience in the military, and I believe most law enforcement, are taught to shoot center mass, which means center of the chest. Like most people are saying I will wait to form an opinion after the facts are out. What I do think, is that the boarder guards have a tough job with a lot of rules that probably make it real difficult.
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  • haffajappahaffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    the wolf wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    An ongoing investigation... I think i'll wait and form an opinion after more of the facts are sorted out.

    now don't go making sense here on the train ! :lol:

    I agree with you. Not enough facts to form an opinion here.
    with you guys on that one...
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  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    haffajappa wrote:
    with you guys on that one...

    Me too. Need more info.
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    Dirtie_Frank wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    If anything at most, a few warning shots would have sent a message. It will be interesting to see how this folds out. I would like to know where the agent was when he fired the shots. I heard reports that the kid was hit in the shoulder and head. If he was across the Rio Grande, that is some excellent marksmanship. I own a .40 caliber handgun and they are tricky to be consistent over 25 feet, especially if you are dodging rocks (which he had better been doing).

    Not that I do not agree, but from my experience in the military, and I believe most law enforcement, are taught to shoot center mass, which means center of the chest. Like most people are saying I will wait to form an opinion after the facts are out. What I do think, is that the boarder guards have a tough job with a lot of rules that probably make it real difficult.

    Yeah, no one is really trained to fire "warning shots", which create their own issues (you just can't randomly shoot somewhere, the bullet is going to end up hitting something or someone that you don't want it to).
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
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