At least 10 activists killed as Israel Navy opens fire on Ga

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  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    rebornFixer wrote:
    As usual, with the exception of polaris, talking to you guys is a total waste of time. You are the most stupid set of smart people I've ever encountered, quite frankly. "Feigned anger" ... You can kiss my feigning ass, gimme. If that's your take on my views, learn to fucking read. And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians. You guys are emotionally retarded, and self-reflection scares you. Good riddance.


    whoa dude, i didn't even say shit to you but whatever
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    rebornFixer wrote:
    As usual, with the exception of polaris, talking to you guys is a total waste of time. You are the most stupid set of smart people I've ever encountered, quite frankly. "Feigned anger" ... You can kiss my feigning ass, gimme. If that's your take on my views, learn to fucking read. And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians. You guys are emotionally retarded, and self-reflection scares you. Good riddance.

    the 'r' word!
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    i heard on the radio today that a guy from victoria, b.c. was on one of the ships, family is still waiting to hear if he's okay.

    there were small protests in vancouver, and montreal i believe, and i think they mentioned a couple other Canadian cities. The one in Vancouver was headed by a rabbi, by the way...
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Norman Finkelstein on the Aid Ship massacre:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB_CKL5h ... r_embedded
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Pepe Silvia wrote:

    whoa dude, i didn't even say shit to you but whatever



    My apologies ... I have only ever had civil discussions with you, and I didn't think to mention that along with polaris. I probably shouldn't have said anything in response after my initial agreement with michelle. I just get tired of people misrepresenting my position. I added my condemnation of the ship raid to the long list before I even agreed with michelle, and its there to see. Despite that, I get rude PMs and a few folks in this thread try to censor the concern.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    If you were reffering to me about the fuck Israel remark, atleast get what I said right Michelle. I said fuck the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT not Israel. I can seperate the 2 and know the difference from the 2. I also said this has NOTHING to do with religion. How could ANY country do this to ANYONE??? And I'll stand by what I said earlier....
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    It's pretty clear to me that a lot on here hate Israel jewish people no matter what the case may be. None of us know what were on those boats b/c none of us were there.Why dont we take the time to hear both sides before we start bashing people.
    Ok So who am I suppose to believe ? :?
    I have also seen the clip and it looks pretty clear to me that the Israeli soldires were attacked as they borded that ship. BUT I COULD BE WRONG....

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/05/30 ... illa-dead/


    An Al-Jazeera reporter on one of the Turkish ships said the Israelis fired at the vessel before boarding it. The Israelis, who had declared they would not let the ships reach Gaza, said they only opened fire after being attacked by activists with sticks, knives and live fire from weapons seized from the Israeli commandos.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    prfctlefts wrote:
    It's pretty clear to me that a lot on here hate Israel jewish people no matter what the case may be.

    I think you will find that there are a lot taking issue with Israel attacking a humanitarian convoy in International waters, grossly flaunting international law & in doing so, killing anywhere between 10 & 19 people and injuring dozens.

    Israel and the IDF had no business mounting an assault on a ship that was not even in their territorial waters. Piracy pure and simple. No one tries to find excuses for Somalian (as they are called) pirates, why would one try to excuse pirates backed by Israel?
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    - back to humans against humans (not humans against the planet only anymore...)-

    Israel first wanted us to think there were only extremists on board, terrorists, so to say.

    I am not in any national thinking here, but 6 Germans are still missing. There were people from our parlament/ government on board, also a very famous european author: Henning Mankell...
    not a terrorist seen anywhere...
    so with this attack you experience finally a pure agressive behaviour that gets out without any rules given...

    well, but with this action Isreal gets finally the full attention of Europe (many demonstration took place last night all over Europe) and of Germany, even!
    and finally they got me, too ...

    there is no way to peace,
    peace is the WAY.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    edited June 2010
    ....sorry, my PC had some troubles...
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    :roll:

    there is no way to peace,
    peace is the WAY.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    breakmarysfall wrote:
    -

    there is no way to peace,
    peace is the WAY.
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    edited June 2010
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    breakmarysfall wrote:
    -

    there is no way to peace,
    peace is the WAY.

    heya,
    :) there were demonstrations in Greece, right? They showed pictures last night! Hope it stood peaceful...
    Post edited by breakmarysfall on
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2010
    prfctlefts wrote:
    It's pretty clear to me that a lot on here hate Israel jewish people no matter what the case may be. None of us know what were on those boats b/c none of us were there.Why dont we take the time to hear both sides before we start bashing people.

    Why would you try and defend the murder of over 10 civilian aid workers? We're only mostly getting Israel's side of the story because the Israeli's have imposed a media blackout and have yet to release the prisoners. Sound familiar? During their massacre in Gaza in January 2009 they did the same thing. They only want one side of the story to get out. Either way, let's say for arguments sake that the Israeli commando's had peaceful intentions - despite being armed with machine guns and raiding the vessel at night - and they were attacked by the aid workers; how would that justify using deadly force and killing over ten people? It was an attack planned days in advance, and an attack that took place in international waters at night. If the Israeli's intention was to peacefully inspect the cargo then why did it board the ships in darkness armed with machine guns and pistols whilst the majority of those on board were sleeping? Surely it would have made sense to conduct an inspection in broad daylight with the co-operation of those on board the ship?

    Still, It's kind of despicable that over 10 civilian aid workers are slaughtered and you hear people talking about how the Israeli's were attacked. Once again Israels multi-million dollar spin machine is managing to turn reality on it's head. Fortunately it's only the morons of this world who swallow Israel's bullshit lies. Anyone with half a brain can see right through their crap.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    breakmarysfall wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    breakmarysfall wrote:
    -

    there is no way to peace,
    peace is the WAY.

    heya,
    :) there were demonstration in Greece, right? They showed pictures last night! Hope it stood peaceful...
    yep,there are every day now..i just wish no victims..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    breakmarysfall wrote:
    heya,
    :) there were demonstration in Greece, right? They showed pictures last night! Hope it stood peaceful...
    yep,there are every day now..i just wish no victims..

    ... me too...
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://www.freegaza.org/en/about-us/mission

    Our Mission

    Written by Free Gaza Movement | 30 January 2009

    Since August 2008, the Free Gaza Movement has sailed from Cyprus to the Gaza Strip on several successful voyages, bringing in international witnesses to see first hand the devastating effects of Israeli violence against the Palestinian people. Ours are the first international boats to journey to Gaza since 1967.

    We are Italian, Irish, Canadian, Greek, Tunisian, German, Australian, American, English, Scottish, Danish, Israeli, and Palestinian. We are of all ages and backgrounds. We have years of experience volunteering in Gaza and the West Bank at the invitation of Palestinians. But now, because of the increasing stranglehold of Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine, many of us find it almost impossible to enter Gaza, and an increasing number have been refused entry to Israel and the West Bank as well.

    We want to break the siege of Gaza. We want to raise international awareness about the prison-like closure of the Gaza Strip and pressure the international community to review its sanctions policy and end its support for continued Israeli occupation. We want to uphold Palestine's right to welcome internationals as visitors, human rights observers, humanitarian aid workers, journalists, or otherwise.

    We have not and will not ask for Israel’s permission. It is our intent to overcome this brutal siege through civil resistance and non-violent direct action, and establish a permanent sea lane between Gaza and the rest of the world.
    Points of Unity

    All participants in the Free Gaza Movement accept the following principles and practices:

    1. We respect the human rights of everyone, regardless of race, tribe, religion, ethnicity, nationality, citizenship or language.

    2. The lawful inhabitants of all territories occupied by Israel since June 5, 1967 must have unimpeded access to international waters and air space, in conformity with all UN resolutions and international law.

    3. The lawful inhabitants of all territories occupied by Israel since June 5, 1967 have the right to control all entry and exit to and from those territories without Israeli interference.

    4. Israel must withdraw its military presence from all territories occupied since June 5, 1967 and revoke all legislation, regulations, directives and practices that apply differently to different populations living in those territories.

    5. Israel must demolish all barriers built to restrict passage in all territories occupied by Israel since June 5, 1967.

    6. We recognize the right of all Palestinian refugees and exiles and their heirs to return to their homes in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories; to recover their properties, and to receive compensation for damage, dispossession and unlawful use of such property. This is an individual and not a collective right, and cannot be negotiated except by the individual.

    7. We stand in solidarity with the Palestinian people, but support no particular political party or organization, without exception.

    8. We agree to adhere to the principles of nonviolence and nonviolent resistance in word and deed at all times.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Why dont we take the time to hear both sides before we start bashing people.

    O.k...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... llout-live

    Haneen Zuabi, a member of the Israeli Knesset who was on the Mavi Marmara, has accused Israel of trying to "cause the largest number of fatalities".

    She was released today after questioning and has been giving her version of events at a news conference, according to the Israeli news website ynetnews.com she told a conference.

    "I entered the captain's room. He was asked to stop by the Israeli soldiers. He said, 'We are a Turkish ship.' We were 130 miles off. It was 11:30 pm. We saw four Israel vessels, they were at a distance because we were in international waters. At 4:15 am we saw the ships approaching.

    "They were dinghies and choppers. At 4:30 am the forces landed quickly. I did not hear any warning from the ships, because noise was coming from the ships and the choppers. Within 10 minutes there were already three bodies. The entire operation took about an hour."

    "There was not a single passenger who raised a club. We put on our life vests. There were no clubs or anything of the sort. There were gunshots, I don't know if they were live bullets or not. There were gunshots fired from the ships in our direction.

    "A clear message was being sent to us, for us to know that our lives were in danger. We convened that we were not interested in a confrontation. What we saw was five bodies. There were only civilians and there were no weapons. There was a sense that I many not come out of it alive. Israel spoke of a provocation, but there was no provocation."
  • Austicman
    Austicman Posts: 1,328
    Byrnzie wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    Why dont we take the time to hear both sides before we start bashing people.

    O.k...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... llout-live

    Haneen Zuabi, a member of the Israeli Knesset who was on the Mavi Marmara, has accused Israel of trying to "cause the largest number of fatalities".

    She was released today after questioning and has been giving her version of events at a news conference, according to the Israeli news website ynetnews.com she told a conference.

    "I entered the captain's room. He was asked to stop by the Israeli soldiers. He said, 'We are a Turkish ship.' We were 130 miles off. It was 11:30 pm. We saw four Israel vessels, they were at a distance because we were in international waters. At 4:15 am we saw the ships approaching.

    "They were dinghies and choppers. At 4:30 am the forces landed quickly. I did not hear any warning from the ships, because noise was coming from the ships and the choppers. Within 10 minutes there were already three bodies. The entire operation took about an hour."

    "There was not a single passenger who raised a club. We put on our life vests. There were no clubs or anything of the sort. There were gunshots, I don't know if they were live bullets or not. There were gunshots fired from the ships in our direction.

    "A clear message was being sent to us, for us to know that our lives were in danger. We convened that we were not interested in a confrontation. What we saw was five bodies. There were only civilians and there were no weapons. There was a sense that I many not come out of it alive. Israel spoke of a provocation, but there was no provocation."

    Thats fucked up :evil:

    One Aussie was shot and another four are being held in detention. Two of them reporters and all their equipment has been confiscated.

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=1062242

    One Australian has been shot and four more are in Israeli detention after they were caught in a deadly clash over a humanitarian mission bound for Gaza.

    The Australians were on board an aid flotilla trying to reach the Palestinian territory.

    Nine people died when Israeli forces stormed the ships, sparking international condemnation. A 20-year-old Australian man has undergone surgery after being shot in the leg.

    The incident has added further strain to the troubled relationship between Australia and Israel.

    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd spoke out against the violence and loss of life.

    "The Australian government condemns any use of violence under the sorts of circumstances that we have seen," he told reporters in Canberra.

    "Furthermore, we are deeply concerned about the loss of life which has occurred."

    Mr Rudd called for Israel's blockade of Gaza to end.

    Australia and Israel's usually cordial relations have become troubled with the attack on the aid convoy coming soon after the federal government expelled an Israeli diplomat.

    The expulsion was in retaliation for Israel's use of forged Australian passports in an assassination in Dubai.

    Foreign Minister Stephen Smith also deplored the flotilla incident, describing it as "terrible and shocking" in a speech to parliament.

    "I think very many Australians will be shocked by it," he said.

    Australia called on Israel to conduct an independent inquiry into the incident straight away, and for that inquiry to be transparent.

    The Australians in Israeli detention include two Fairfax reporters, Paul McGeough and Kate Geraghty.

    They are understood to have refused an offer of deportation and are now in a detention centre at Beersheva. They have had their footage and equipment confiscated.

    Peter Fray, editor of Fairfax's The Sydney Morning Herald, called on Israel to allow the reporters to tell their story.

    Mr Fray said the reporters had "every right" to be on board the flotilla.

    "We ask that Israel respect their right to do their jobs," he said.

    The other detained Australians are two women who are understood to be unharmed.

    Protests were held in Australian cities on Tuesday against Israel's actions. An estimated 4000 people stormed Sydney's Town Hall forecourt, chanting "Israel, USA, how many kids have you killed today?".

    The crowd observed a minute's silence to remember the dead, standing by banners that read "Israel is a terrorist state".

    In Canberra, about 120 protesters clasped candles and chanted in front of the Israeli embassy.

    Palestinian flags were waved and some wore traditional scarves in a gesture of support.

    The crowd heard that Israel had gone too far in attacking the convoy, and that the international community had to act swiftly or such actions would be repeated.

    Protester Mahmoud Abujafar, who was born in the West Bank but lives in Canberra, said he had been feeling bad about the deaths all day.

    "People came to help us, the people in Gaza, and they were killed," he told AAP.

    He said he was feeling very proud of the Australians who had joined the aid flotilla.

    Protesters chanted "free free Palestine" and "shame" as police guarded the gate to the embassy.

    Earlier in the day, federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said the flotilla incident was "very distressing" and expressed his regret.

    The opposition has not criticised Israel, saying more time is needed to sift through the differing claims about what happened.
    I can't go the library anymore, everyone STINKS!!
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    Byrnzie wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    It's pretty clear to me that a lot on here hate Israel jewish people no matter what the case may be. None of us know what were on those boats b/c none of us were there.Why dont we take the time to hear both sides before we start bashing people.

    Why would you try and defend the murder of over 10 civilian aid workers? We're only mostly getting Israel's side of the story because the Israeli's have imposed a media blackout and have yet to release the prisoners. Sound familiar? During their massacre in Gaza in January 2009 they did the same thing. They only want one side of the story to get out. Either way, let's say for arguments sake that the Israeli commando's had peaceful intentions - despite being armed with machine guns and raiding the vessel at night - and they were attacked by the aid workers; how would that justify using deadly force and killing over ten people? It was an attack planned days in advance, and an attack that took place in international waters at night. If the Israeli's intention was to peacefully inspect the cargo then why did it board the ships in darkness armed with machine guns and pistols whilst the majority of those on board were sleeping? Surely it would have made sense to conduct an inspection in broad daylight with the co-operation of those on board the ship?

    Still, It's kind of despicable that over 10 civilian aid workers are slaughtered and you hear people talking about how the Israeli's were attacked. Once again Israels multi-million dollar spin machine is managing to turn reality on it's head. Fortunately it's only the morons of this world who swallow Israel's bullshit lies. Anyone with half a brain can see right through their crap.

    Im not condoning any one being killed,but if the seals were only defending themselves then that's a different story. and it looked like to me the Israelis were getting attacked as they were bording that ship. I didn't see any gunfire from the video i saw. Only the Israelis being beaten with clubs and one of them being thrown off one of the decks.
    All Im saying is I think we should hear both sides before making any judgement.

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