At least 10 activists killed as Israel Navy opens fire on Ga

gimmesometruth27

i suppose i should clarify my remarks from last night. i was VERY angry at what happened. i was very angry and emotional because i had seen the thread from a few days ago and had hopes that this flotila would make it to gaza with the much needed supplies and that the proper attention would be brought to the illegal and inhumane blockade. and i was outraged that isreali special forces attacked these ships in international waters. i have not been so angry about anything in my life aside from the illegal invasion of iraq in 2003. i had protested and written several letters to my congressmen to make my voice and opposition heard prior to that invasion to no avail. i was especially very angry last night that i could not find news on what had happened. there was a blurb on cnn for about 2 minutes and that was it. in my anger i did paint jewish people with a broad brush and called them cowards. i should have specified the "isreali policymakers and the isreali special forces and military", and not the jewish people of the entire world. i apologize to michelle, i did not mean to offend you or anyone else. i hope you can forgive me. i let my emotions get the best of me. most of you know me pretty well that i try to be a fair poster and am passionate about what i believe in, i did not mean to sound like a mel gibson DUI rant.

i want to thank byrnzie and polaris for defending me in this and other threads. to reborn, spare me your self righteousness. i used the word coward, and to me this was an act of cowards, the same that terrorism is the work of cowards, the same that war crimes and crimes against humanity are acts of cowards. the same that this BLOCKADE is the act of cowards....reborn this tragedy goes beyond your petty feigned anger at my remarks. i could have used other words that are probably more offensive, but to me this situation called for the word coward. i have been reading your posts on here for years and no matter how egregious the human rights infraction there is no convincing you that isreal was wrong and that their actions in international waters were uncalled for. so since you continue to shill for the isreali government i do not apologize to you. i have tried to stay out of these isreal/palestine threads over the years, but last night something inside of me snapped and i came here and let out all of my rage. to those that i offended i apologize...

at any rate, it appears that the isreali government has lost all of its friends in the region. all but the US...which i am sure will find some way to validate the actions on the high seas last night. it is such a shame...

rebornFixer

As usual, with the exception of polaris, talking to you guys is a total waste of time. You are the most stupid set of smart people I've ever encountered, quite frankly. "Feigned anger" ... You can kiss my feigning ass, gimme. If that's your take on my views, learn to fucking read. And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians. You guys are emotionally retarded, and self-reflection scares you. Good riddance.

dimitrispearljam

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

at any rate, it appears that the isreali government has lost all of its friends in the region. all but the US.

exactly that all Greek news said,in all our channels

dimitrispearljam

rebornFixer wrote:

As usual, with the exception of polaris, talking to you guys is a total waste of time. You are the most stupid set of smart people I've ever encountered, quite frankly. "Feigned anger" ... You can kiss my feigning ass, gimme. If that's your take on my views, learn to fucking read. And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians. You guys are emotionally retarded, and self-reflection scares you. Good riddance.

even if u was right,i think u lost it with this act..if u dont like what people say i understand it..but personal attact is different thing..last night israelian goverment did a mistake and that mistake cost lifes..too bad u dont understand this

Byrnzie

rebornFixer wrote:

And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians.

10 civilian aid workers slaughtered whilst trying to ship aid to 1.5 million imprisoned Palestinians. A bit of perspective may be just what you need.

gimmesometruth27

rebornFixer wrote:

As usual, with the exception of polaris, talking to you guys is a total waste of time. You are the most stupid set of smart people I've ever encountered, quite frankly. "Feigned anger" ... You can kiss my feigning ass, gimme. If that's your take on my views, learn to fucking read. And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians. You guys are emotionally retarded, and self-reflection scares you. Good riddance.

that IS my take on your views. you are here only to argue and try to validate your own positions. you make excuses for justifying these situations instead of trying to find out why the rest of us are angry about it. if you are outraged and offended by the word "coward" then you have some serious issues...it seems you are more mad at me for my coward statement than you are that this raid happened....if that is the truth then you need some self reflection time to gain a little perspective on THAT....

gimmesometruth27

dimitrispearljam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

at any rate, it appears that the isreali government has lost all of its friends in the region. all but the US.

exactly that all Greek news said,in all our channels

are there still riots and protests in Greece D?

i can't find anything here in the states about that. i think it is night time there now?

rebornFixer

Byrnzie wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians.

10 civilian aid workers slaughtered whilst trying to ship aid to 1.5 million imprisoned Palestinians. A bit of perspective may be just what you need.

Even if you're right, you'll have to do better than acting like a hypocrite to make the point.

rebornFixer

dimitrispearljam wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

As usual, with the exception of polaris, talking to you guys is a total waste of time. You are the most stupid set of smart people I've ever encountered, quite frankly. "Feigned anger" ... You can kiss my feigning ass, gimme. If that's your take on my views, learn to fucking read. And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians. You guys are emotionally retarded, and self-reflection scares you. Good riddance.

even if u was right,i think u lost it with this act..if u dont like what people say i understand it..but personal attact is different thing..last night israelian goverment did a mistake and that mistake cost lifes..too bad u dont understand this

dimitri,
I do understand the significance of what the Israelis did, I actually said that two or three times in this thread and the other one. At this point I do not have a ton of respect for a couple of the people commenting here,but if I offended you, my apologies.

dimitrispearljam

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

at any rate, it appears that the isreali government has lost all of its friends in the region. all but the US.

exactly that all Greek news said,in all our channels

are there still riots and protests in Greece D?

i can't find anything here in the states about that. i think it is night time there now?

2:33 am
yeah..today was a mess in the pireaus port..and a big fight out of israelian empacy..
anyway i think the whole story is up now..there was a big plan with 2 directions..once to kick euro,by the markets and they did it..see how is the euro-dollar now
and second the goverment of europe to cut salarys from people..they find Greece ,the victim first to hit cos not stronge economy,and now as Greece an exable,countries for not be in the same position as Greece,cut salarys too..Spain,Portugal,Italy,and more to follow..brilliant plan

rebornFixer

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

that IS my take on your views. you are here only to argue and try to validate your own positions. you make excuses for justifying these situations instead of trying to find out why the rest of us are angry about it. if you are outraged and offended by the word "coward" then you have some serious issues...it seems you are more mad at me for my coward statement than you are that this raid happened....if that is the truth then you need some self reflection time to gain a little perspective on THAT....

I can do without the analysis, thanks. Yes, your blanket statement upset me and it was pretty clear that I wasn't the only one, either. In any event, for what's its worth, I don't think you're a racist based on your retraction of what you wrote earlier. The comment was still bothersome. Was it more bothersome that what happened on the raid? No, and I didn't say that at any point.

dimitrispearljam

rebornFixer wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

As usual, with the exception of polaris, talking to you guys is a total waste of time. You are the most stupid set of smart people I've ever encountered, quite frankly. "Feigned anger" ... You can kiss my feigning ass, gimme. If that's your take on my views, learn to fucking read. And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians. You guys are emotionally retarded, and self-reflection scares you. Good riddance.

even if u was right,i think u lost it with this act..if u dont like what people say i understand it..but personal attact is different thing..last night israelian goverment did a mistake and that mistake cost lifes..too bad u dont understand this

dimitri,
I do understand the significance of what the Israelis did, I actually said that two or three times in this thread and the other one. At this point I do not have a ton of respect for a couple of the people commenting here,but if I offended you, my apologies.

its not personal my friend..i read the thread and actually this is nothing infront of pain familys of dead feel
if u dont respect a couple of people here,is your business..i just post my opinion,i will never tell u what to do,but you know that with this type of personal attacks we dont go anywhere

rebornFixer

dimitrispearljam wrote:

its not personal my friend..i read the thread and actually this is nothing infront of pain familys of dead feel
if u dont respect a couple of people here,is your business..i just post my opinion,i will never tell u what to do,but you know that with this type of personal attacks we dont go anywhere

Yep, I agree. If I act like an asshole, feel free to call me on it. I do get tired of people failing to understand that its not a cardinal sin to say something that doesn't completely and 100% tow the party line around here. I could say the exact same things that everyone else does, but I am a contrary bastard who feels that the world is too complex for that.

michelleelise

ok, i guess this board is already totally derailed, plus I see there's a couple other threads about the raid so I'm going to continue the derailing...

i'm not going to post much because i've been drinking all afternoon and that's never a good setup to a discussion on politics. but i feel i need to say a couple htings...

gimme..i understnad the anger completely and i understand that statement was out of character for you. i've seen your posts in other threads and think of you as a bit of a kindred spirit, so maybe seeing that come from you hurt and i reacted in anger, too. my beign from a jewish family also makes me unable to brush it off like some people are willing to. i disagree that it should've been allowed to slip, though, because in the heat of the situation when emotions are running very high is exactly when someone sometimes needs to say "whoa, let's not get crazy"

re: my over-reaction...it wasn't one. i've seen lots of people post things like "fuck israel", etc...and i take that with a grain of salt. i think gimme's post was different, the way he prefaced it and expected to get banned, i think he knew he was making a sweeping negative generalization of jews - and i'm glad he apologized for doing it. it really doesn't matter if anyone doesn't think the word "coward" warrants it - because it's not about the trait being ascribed.

reborn, thanks for your defense. i thought your posts were very civil and i didn't notice you making any excuses fro israel at all, so i assume the accusations are people unfairly carrying things over from past discussions.

i have no problem with someone calling those soldiers last night cowards, if that's their opinion. Or even the gov't or military as a whole. but making blanket negative statements about a people is either ok or not. it's not right to just dismiss it because of recent events or because the negative isn't "negative enough" for you. people who rail against this when they're removed enough to remain politically correct but are ok with it in the heat of their own argument are hypocrites.

if you think calling all muslims by a negative name is not ok just because a handful of muslims slaughtered 3,000 on 9/11 - and i've had the impression that most people here do feel that way - then i don't see how you can think it's ok to say the same about jews based on what happened last night or even what's been happening in the middle east. we are not all the same. there are so many of us here and in israel who do not agree with many different things re: israel policies and violent reactions. but that's another thread, especially now that this ones been thoroughly derailed

dimitrispearljam

rebornFixer wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

its not personal my friend..i read the thread and actually this is nothing infront of pain familys of dead feel
if u dont respect a couple of people here,is your business..i just post my opinion,i will never tell u what to do,but you know that with this type of personal attacks we dont go anywhere

Yep, I agree. If I act like an asshole, feel free to call me on it. I do get tired of people failing to understand that its not a cardinal sin to say something that doesn't completely and 100% tow the party line around here. I could say the exact same things that everyone else does, but I am a contrary bastard who feels that the world is too complex for that.

be sure, ill defend your right to tell your opinion,even i have exactly the opposite opinion than yours

rebornFixer

dimitrispearljam wrote:

be sure, ill defend your right to tell your opinion,even i have exactly the opposite opinion than yours

Proof that the Greeks really did invent democracy! Thanks, dude. I felt that michelle's point was well-taken, but because a few people erroneously assume that I hang off Israel's balls, I was probably not the right person to jump in on that issue.

michelleelise

rebornFixer wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

I can do without the analysis, thanks. Yes, your blanket statement upset me and it was pretty clear that I wasn't the only one, either. In any event, for what's its worth, I don't think you're a racist based on your retraction of what you wrote earlier. The comment was still bothersome. Was it more bothersome that what happened on the raid? No, and I didn't say that at any point.

The peer pressure to let this discussion die because "murder is worse" is ridiculous. It's not as if any of us is pausing from providing medical aid to the wounded in order to discuss it. Jeez. We all have too much free time or we wouldn't be here in the first place. Let the discussions go where they will...

Byrnzie

michelle822 wrote:

ok, i guess this board is already totally derailed, plus I see there's a couple other threads about the raid so I'm going to continue the derailing...

i'm not going to post much because i've been drinking all afternoon and that's never a good setup to a discussion on politics. but i feel i need to say a couple htings...

gimme..i understnad the anger completely and i understand that statement was out of character for you. i've seen your posts in other threads and think of you as a bit of a kindred spirit, so maybe seeing that come from you hurt and i reacted in anger, too. my beign from a jewish family also makes me unable to brush it off like some people are willing to. i disagree that it should've been allowed to slip, though, because in the heat of the situation when emotions are running very high is exactly when someone sometimes needs to say "whoa, let's not get crazy"

re: my over-reaction...it wasn't one. i've seen lots of people post things like "fuck israel", etc...and i take that with a grain of salt. i think gimme's post was different, the way he prefaced it and expected to get banned, i think he knew he was making a sweeping negative generalization of jews - and i'm glad he apologized for doing it. it really doesn't matter if anyone doesn't think the word "coward" warrants it - because it's not about the trait being ascribed.

reborn, thanks for your defense. i thought your posts were very civil and i didn't notice you making any excuses fro israel at all, so i assume the accusations are people unfairly carrying things over from past discussions.

i have no problem with someone calling those soldiers last night cowards, if that's their opinion. Or even the gov't or military as a whole. but making blanket negative statements about a people is either ok or not. it's not right to just dismiss it because of recent events or because the negative isn't "negative enough" for you. people who rail against this when they're removed enough to remain politically correct but are ok with it in the heat of their own argument are hypocrites.

if you think calling all muslims by a negative name is not ok just because a handful of muslims slaughtered 3,000 on 9/11 - and i've had the impression that most people here do feel that way - then i don't see how you can think it's ok to say the same about jews based on what happened last night or even what's been happening in the middle east. we are not all the same. there are so many of us here and in israel who do not agree with many different things re: israel policies and violent reactions. but that's another thread, especially now that this ones been thoroughly derailed

Fair enough.

Byrnzie

rebornFixer wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

rebornFixer wrote:

And Byrnzie, I get lectured on stirring shit up, yet you start a whole thread intended to piss off Christians.

10 civilian aid workers slaughtered whilst trying to ship aid to 1.5 million imprisoned Palestinians. A bit of perspective may be just what you need.

Even if you're right, you'll have to do better than acting like a hypocrite to make the point.

How am I a hypocrite? Ah, you're gonna bash me over the head with my Jesus thread? I see.

rebornFixer

Byrnzie wrote:

How am I a hypocrite? Ah, you're gonna bash me over the head with my Jesus thread? I see.

Yes, you lured me in. Happy? :P