I don't know how anybody could look at the Cardinals since 1996 and say Larussa is overrated. He micro manages sometimes, but the guy gets results. Didn't he practically invent sabermetrics or whatever it's called?
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to answer your question, no. the cards play in such a shit division it's a joke if they don't win 95-100 games a year. The last time they won it all they had like 84 wins. I believe it's the lowest win total ever for a WS champ (I did love watching them beat the mets that year)
Larussa is decent. I still don't know how he lost in 1988 with that loaded oakland team...or 1990 with another loaded oakland team. he only won 1 game in those two series combined. He is probably a little overrated. He's 2-3 in the WS...he was a huge favorite in 3 of those series (and went 5-8 in those games...not good)
Yeah, the players still play the games. Good pitching is gonna beat good hitting.
I dunno how he won in 06 when they were overmatched by every team.
I'm pretty sure he has kept a notebook of a bunch of crazy stats since the 80s. Maybe not sabermetrics exactly, but the same theory behind it no?
The NL central didn't get really shitty til pretty recently. It gets a prety bum rap b/c it's not on the coasts, too. The had the Astros to contend with til about 04, Brewers haven't been a slouch lately and the Cubs are/were stacked.
I don't know how anybody could look at the Cardinals since 1996 and say Larussa is overrated. He micro manages sometimes, but the guy gets results. Didn't he practically invent sabermetrics or whatever it's called?
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to answer your question, no. the cards play in such a shit division it's a joke if they don't win 95-100 games a year. The last time they won it all they had like 84 wins. I believe it's the lowest win total ever for a WS champ (I did love watching them beat the mets that year)
Larussa is decent. I still don't know how he lost in 1988 with that loaded oakland team...or 1990 with another loaded oakland team. he only won 1 game in those two series combined. He is probably a little overrated. He's 2-3 in the WS...he was a huge favorite in 3 of those series (and went 5-8 in those games...not good)
Yeah, the players still play the games. Good pitching is gonna beat good hitting.
I dunno how he won in 06 when they were overmatched by every team.
I'm pretty sure he has kept a notebook of a bunch of crazy stats since the 80s. Maybe not sabermetrics exactly, but the same theory behind it no?
The NL central didn't get really shitty til pretty recently. It gets a prety bum rap b/c it's not on the coasts, too. The had the Astros to contend with til about 04, Brewers haven't been a slouch lately and the Cubs are/were stacked.
there are still 6 teams in that division though (only division in baseball with 6). pitt and cincy equal about 25 wins a year on the cards schedule. to be fair cincy is much improved, but there always seem to be 2 or 3 horrendous teams in that division, giving the cards 30-35 free wins a year
that book 3 nights in august is about a 3 game series between the cards/cubs. it shows everything from larussa's perspective and goes into depth about how many decisions a manager has to make in each game during the series. It is a great read...really goes into depth about baseball strategy and misc decisions a manager has to make. if you're a cards fan (or baseball fan in general) you should check it out
One of only 2 managers to win a world series in each league.
Only manager to win multiple pennants in each league.
Manager of the year on 3 different teams.
Won division with 3 different teams.
3rd all time in victories.
I also heard he loved the the last episode of Lost.
how does his career look if he DOESN'T turn a blind eye to steroids? That's all I'm saying. :silent:
If I had known then what I know now...
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One of only 2 managers to win a world series in each league.
Only manager to win multiple pennants in each league.
Manager of the year on 3 different teams.
Won division with 3 different teams.
3rd all time in victories.
I also heard he loved the the last episode of Lost.
how does his career look if he DOESN'T turn a blind eye to steroids? That's all I'm saying. :silent:
you could say that for ALOT of managers during the era.
It is a great read...really goes into depth about baseball strategy and misc decisions a manager has to make. if you're a cards fan (or baseball fan in general) you should check it out
I wanted to read it..........but, it's about that dickhead, TLR
Phil Jackson is in the top 5 coaches of any sport. Jordan didn't win without him, Kobe and Shaq didn't win without him.
and Phil never makes this discussion without MJ, scottie, shaq and kobe. never.
If I had known then what I know now...
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One of only 2 managers to win a world series in each league.
Only manager to win multiple pennants in each league.
Manager of the year on 3 different teams.
Won division with 3 different teams.
3rd all time in victories.
I also heard he loved the the last episode of Lost.
how does his career look if he DOESN'T turn a blind eye to steroids? That's all I'm saying. :silent:
Prolly better than the people that managed Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Mike Schmidt.
One of only 2 managers to win a world series in each league.
Only manager to win multiple pennants in each league.
Manager of the year on 3 different teams.
Won division with 3 different teams.
3rd all time in victories.
I also heard he loved the the last episode of Lost.
how does his career look if he DOESN'T turn a blind eye to steroids? That's all I'm saying. :silent:
you could say that for ALOT of managers during the era.
How about saying about every player, manager, pitching coach, hitting coach, trainer, bench coach, clubhouse assistant, commisioner, mlbpa, journalist and fan during that era.
Just change the title of this thread to La Russa and be done with it. "Oh, he's batting the pitcher 8th! What a genius!"
One of only 2 managers to win a world series in each league.
Only manager to win multiple pennants in each league.
Manager of the year on 3 different teams.
Won division with 3 different teams.
3rd all time in victories.
I also heard he loved the the last episode of Lost.
How many years didn't he win anything with great teams? Look at last year. He's got a team with one of the best players ever with Holliday hitting behind him and two, yes two, aces in a short series and his team gets swept?
Any good manager who stays in the game as long as he has could put up the stats that he has, most would probably win more. I think he's a fine manager but not near the genius everyone thinks he is. If you like the last episode of Lost, I can see why you like him because you go along with what everyone else thinks.
Torre is overrated too but I think he does a good job with the egos and not hitting the panic button when things go bad.
I don't know how anybody could look at the Cardinals since 1996 and say Larussa is overrated. He micro manages sometimes, but the guy gets results. Didn't he practically invent sabermetrics or whatever it's called?
The 09 Cardinals were supposed to get 4th in their division and they fuckin stomped through it. 06 WS they were the heavy underdogs and stomped through it.
How many years didn't he win anything with great teams? Look at last year. He's got a team with one of the best players ever with Holliday hitting behind him and two, yes two, aces in a short series and his team gets swept?
Yes. Let's look at last year. Cardinals were supposed to finish in the bottom half of the division and when they massively overachieved they practically had to go get Holliday.
Not much he can do if the players dont show up in the playoffs.
How many years didn't he win anything with great teams? Look at last year. He's got a team with one of the best players ever with Holliday hitting behind him and two, yes two, aces in a short series and his team gets swept?
Yes. Let's look at last year. Cardinals were supposed to finish in the bottom half of the division and when they massively overachieved they practically had to go get Holliday.
Not much he can do if the players dont show up in the playoffs.
So it's the players fault if they lose, but he gets the credit when they win? That makes sense.
How many years didn't he win anything with great teams? Look at last year. He's got a team with one of the best players ever with Holliday hitting behind him and two, yes two, aces in a short series and his team gets swept?
Yes. Let's look at last year. Cardinals were supposed to finish in the bottom half of the division and when they massively overachieved they practically had to go get Holliday.
Not much he can do if the players dont show up in the playoffs.
So it's the players fault if they lose, but he gets the credit when they win? That makes sense.
Yes, to a point.
Baseball is such a finnicky sport. Their 06 WS win proves that. It's pretty hard for me to hold much against a manager over a 3 game series. It's impossible to turn a team around in that amount of time.
How many years didn't he win anything with great teams? Look at last year. He's got a team with one of the best players ever with Holliday hitting behind him and two, yes two, aces in a short series and his team gets swept?
Yes. Let's look at last year. Cardinals were supposed to finish in the bottom half of the division and when they massively overachieved they practically had to go get Holliday.
Not much he can do if the players dont show up in the playoffs.
So it's the players fault if they lose, but he gets the credit when they win? That makes sense.[/quote]
Yes, to a point.
Baseball is such a finnicky sport. Their 06 WS win proves that. It's pretty hard for me to hold much against a manager over a 3 game series. It's impossible to turn a team around in that amount of time.[/quote]
If the team is not prepared you can hold it against the manager.
I dunno, i think Parcells is a pretty darn good coach. won every where he went.
parcells was nothing without bill jr. he won cause of the defense bill jr has. funny how after bill jr left parcells didn't win another super or get to one and bill jr goes down as one of the greatest coaches since bill walsh
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Phil Jackson is in the top 5 coaches of any sport. Jordan didn't win without him, Kobe and Shaq didn't win without him.
larry brown is 10 times the coach phil jackson has.
pretty easy to win titles when you're coaching 4 of the top 50 players to ever play the game. he has NEVER built a team from the bottom up.
doesn't make him less of a coach. lots of people of coached talented teams and not been able to get the job done. most recently, bill jr agaist the giants.
Phil Jackson is in the top 5 coaches of any sport. Jordan didn't win without him, Kobe and Shaq didn't win without him.
larry brown is 10 times the coach phil jackson has.
pretty easy to win titles when you're coaching 4 of the top 50 players to ever play the game. he has NEVER built a team from the bottom up.
Larry Brown 10 times the coach that Phil is??? That's getting a little ridiculous. You don't win 10 titles on accident.
Not on accident but Larry Brown did not have the players Jackson did. I think Jackson, like Joe Torre, is better at handling the personalities than actual coaching. Though in the big time world of pro sports this may be more important. Based on both of their track records, a good argument could be made that it is.
Phil Jackson is in the top 5 coaches of any sport. Jordan didn't win without him, Kobe and Shaq didn't win without him.
larry brown is 10 times the coach phil jackson has.
pretty easy to win titles when you're coaching 4 of the top 50 players to ever play the game. he has NEVER built a team from the bottom up.
doesn't make him less of a coach. lots of people of coached talented teams and not been able to get the job done. most recently, bill jr agaist the giants.
all i am saying is i would have much more respect for phil jackson if he didnt fall into 2 of the greatest coaching situations in the history of professional sports.
one team he had the greatest player of all time right in his prime plus another top 50 player of alltime.
the other team? probably the 2nd best player of all time in his prime(at this point i will mention yet again that i scored 2 points againts kobe in middle school. thanks for allowing me the opportunity to share that again :thumbup: ) and another top 50 of alltime in shaq.
is he a good coach? yes. is he as good as everyone makes him out to be? no...and that, my friends, is the very definition of overrated.
I dunno, i think Parcells is a pretty darn good coach. won every where he went.
parcells was nothing without bill jr. he won cause of the defense bill jr has. funny how after bill jr left parcells didn't win another super or get to one and bill jr goes down as one of the greatest coaches since bill walsh
Tom Brady made Bill Bellichek
Had my eyes peeled both wide open, and I got a glimpse
Of my innocence... got back my inner sense...
I dunno, i think Parcells is a pretty darn good coach. won every where he went.
parcells was nothing without bill jr. he won cause of the defense bill jr has. funny how after bill jr left parcells didn't win another super or get to one and bill jr goes down as one of the greatest coaches since bill walsh
Tom Brady made Bill Bellichek
tom brady fell into a good spot when bledsoe went out after that mo lewis hit. Its weird how one hit can change the face of the franchise. Who knows maybe tom brady doesn't ever that chance without bledsoe. Brady was a backup to drew henson at michigan for most of his college qb days. So what does that say bout brady.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
the other team? probably the 2nd best player of all time in his prime(at this point i will mention yet again that i scored 2 points againts kobe in middle school. thanks for allowing me the opportunity to share that again :thumbup: ) and another top 50 of alltime in shaq.
is he a good coach? yes. is he as good as everyone makes him out to be? no...and that, my friends, is the very definition of overrated.
a) your exploits vs. kobe deserve their own thread :thumbup:
b) yep.......overrated.
If I had known then what I know now...
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VIC 07
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Columbus 10
EV LA 11
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Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Comments
Yeah, the players still play the games. Good pitching is gonna beat good hitting.
I dunno how he won in 06 when they were overmatched by every team.
I'm pretty sure he has kept a notebook of a bunch of crazy stats since the 80s. Maybe not sabermetrics exactly, but the same theory behind it no?
The NL central didn't get really shitty til pretty recently. It gets a prety bum rap b/c it's not on the coasts, too. The had the Astros to contend with til about 04, Brewers haven't been a slouch lately and the Cubs are/were stacked.
there are still 6 teams in that division though (only division in baseball with 6). pitt and cincy equal about 25 wins a year on the cards schedule. to be fair cincy is much improved, but there always seem to be 2 or 3 horrendous teams in that division, giving the cards 30-35 free wins a year
that book 3 nights in august is about a 3 game series between the cards/cubs. it shows everything from larussa's perspective and goes into depth about how many decisions a manager has to make in each game during the series. It is a great read...really goes into depth about baseball strategy and misc decisions a manager has to make. if you're a cards fan (or baseball fan in general) you should check it out
how does his career look if he DOESN'T turn a blind eye to steroids? That's all I'm saying. :silent:
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VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
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EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
you could say that for ALOT of managers during the era.
and Phil never makes this discussion without MJ, scottie, shaq and kobe. never.
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Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Prolly better than the people that managed Willie Mays, Hank Aaron and Mike Schmidt.
How about saying about every player, manager, pitching coach, hitting coach, trainer, bench coach, clubhouse assistant, commisioner, mlbpa, journalist and fan during that era.
How many years didn't he win anything with great teams? Look at last year. He's got a team with one of the best players ever with Holliday hitting behind him and two, yes two, aces in a short series and his team gets swept?
Any good manager who stays in the game as long as he has could put up the stats that he has, most would probably win more. I think he's a fine manager but not near the genius everyone thinks he is. If you like the last episode of Lost, I can see why you like him because you go along with what everyone else thinks.
Torre is overrated too but I think he does a good job with the egos and not hitting the panic button when things go bad.
Sabermetrics is overrated too.
So it's the players fault if they lose, but he gets the credit when they win? That makes sense.
Yes, to a point.
Baseball is such a finnicky sport. Their 06 WS win proves that. It's pretty hard for me to hold much against a manager over a 3 game series. It's impossible to turn a team around in that amount of time.
So it's the players fault if they lose, but he gets the credit when they win? That makes sense.[/quote]
Yes, to a point.
Baseball is such a finnicky sport. Their 06 WS win proves that. It's pretty hard for me to hold much against a manager over a 3 game series. It's impossible to turn a team around in that amount of time.[/quote]
If the team is not prepared you can hold it against the manager.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
larry brown is 10 times the coach phil jackson has.
pretty easy to win titles when you're coaching 4 of the top 50 players to ever play the game. he has NEVER built a team from the bottom up.
doesn't make him less of a coach. lots of people of coached talented teams and not been able to get the job done. most recently, bill jr agaist the giants.
Larry Brown 10 times the coach that Phil is??? That's getting a little ridiculous. You don't win 10 titles on accident.
Not on accident but Larry Brown did not have the players Jackson did. I think Jackson, like Joe Torre, is better at handling the personalities than actual coaching. Though in the big time world of pro sports this may be more important. Based on both of their track records, a good argument could be made that it is.
all i am saying is i would have much more respect for phil jackson if he didnt fall into 2 of the greatest coaching situations in the history of professional sports.
one team he had the greatest player of all time right in his prime plus another top 50 player of alltime.
the other team? probably the 2nd best player of all time in his prime(at this point i will mention yet again that i scored 2 points againts kobe in middle school. thanks for allowing me the opportunity to share that again :thumbup: ) and another top 50 of alltime in shaq.
is he a good coach? yes. is he as good as everyone makes him out to be? no...and that, my friends, is the very definition of overrated.
Tom Brady made Bill Bellichek
Of my innocence... got back my inner sense...
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Well said and my point about LaRussa.
Congrats on scoring on kobe!
a) your exploits vs. kobe deserve their own thread :thumbup:
b) yep.......overrated.
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I second the Kobe v. Jeagler thread.
i really outscored him....the last 5 minutes of that game (despite radnor being down 15 points). it was glorious i tell you....glorious.
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because you were too consumed thinking of the jeagler scoring against the second best basketball player in the history of the game.