The Golf Thread

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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,175
    Cam Smith, Joaquin Niemann, and Harold Varner have officially signed with LIV. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 14,826
    LIV is real.  Some people don’t realize it is not even halfway through the first season.  It will take a decade or two to really get its wings (if it will). 

    It forced some great changes by the PGA.  20 events though seems like a lot in an 8 month schedule.  
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,606
    LIV is real.  Some people don’t realize it is not even halfway through the first season.  It will take a decade or two to really get its wings (if it will). 

    It forced some great changes by the PGA.  20 events though seems like a lot in an 8 month schedule.  
    Real as in real people playing golf? Sure. Real as in a viable league that people actually care about? Not buying it. 

    Happy to only see Smith leave and not more top guys like Hideki and Cantlay etc etc. 


    Only good thing about LIV, as far as I can see, is that it did accelerate needed changes in the PGA. Good luck to the LIV guys, playing less golf in the streaming oblivion where most of the public will hardly ever see them again. 
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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,947
    edited August 30
    All in all while a bad day for the PGA, it could have been a lot worse. I saw a stat that LIV players have won 12 of the last 24 majors and that is not insignificant, but a lot of those guys are older and/or hurt often.

    Right now LIV has 2 players in the top 20 in the world.  It could have been a whole lot worse.

    LIV is only real if they get OWGR points and/or win the court case. 

    Also, when is Norman out?  Didn't get the players they had hoped, didn't win the court case he was telling every player they were going to win
    Post edited by Cliffy6745 on
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 14,826
    This my point.  LIV has had only three tourneys and people are writing it off.  It takes time for people to care.   The format will change and evolve.   I am not saying it ever will ever take off but way too early to tell.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,606
    This my point.  LIV has had only three tourneys and people are writing it off.  It takes time for people to care.   The format will change and evolve.   I am not saying it ever will ever take off but way too early to tell.
    I don't see it man.

    Like Cliff said, a lot of the guys they have are over the hill and injured frequently. The team stuff is just beyond corny to me. Everyone making the cut....just seems like a bunch of exhibitions that nobody cares about, especially with it not being on tv.

    Then you factor in the fact that the PGA Tour seems like it will be a whole lot more entertaining next year and it just makes LIV seem even more irrelevant to me. 

    Plus you mentioned that they are only halfway through the season....do you think they're going to garner more attention during football season? lol. 
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,175
    LIV is real.  Some people don’t realize it is not even halfway through the first season.  It will take a decade or two to really get its wings (if it will). 

    It forced some great changes by the PGA.  20 events though seems like a lot in an 8 month schedule.  
    Real as in real people playing golf? Sure. Real as in a viable league that people actually care about? Not buying it. 

    Happy to only see Smith leave and not more top guys like Hideki and Cantlay etc etc. 


    Only good thing about LIV, as far as I can see, is that it did accelerate needed changes in the PGA. Good luck to the LIV guys, playing less golf in the streaming oblivion where most of the public will hardly ever see them again. 
    It was the catalyst. Without LIV, none of those changes would even be considered let alone accelerated. Mickelson has long said the Tour was withholding money from players. And he was right. 

    Here’s a good article by Alan Shipnuck, the guy that wrote the Phil biography and has covered all the LIV events (even though Norman and Phil didn’t want him there and I think even tried to remove him). He’s been as critical of Phil as anyone, but here he gives Phil some credit for the changes he and LIV have forced the PGA Tour into. 

    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 14,826
    There is no possible way a competing golf tour can be setup and be a success in the first season.  It is going to take time to ever see if this takes off.  I doubt it will, but writing it off because it hasn't taken off yet after only 3 events or their players are over the hill doesn't make sense to me.  They have a lot of young players, and the more young players start coming over (if they do), then maybe over time it can compete.  As more legit pros and young players join, they'll get rid of people like Chase Koepka.  If they can find a way to get points, and some of these young players win a major or two, it could draw more eyes over to LIV.  A lot of ifs.  
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,606
    There is no possible way a competing golf tour can be setup and be a success in the first season.  It is going to take time to ever see if this takes off.  I doubt it will, but writing it off because it hasn't taken off yet after only 3 events or their players are over the hill doesn't make sense to me.  They have a lot of young players, and the more young players start coming over (if they do), then maybe over time it can compete.  As more legit pros and young players join, they'll get rid of people like Chase Koepka.  If they can find a way to get points, and some of these young players win a major or two, it could draw more eyes over to LIV.  A lot of ifs.  
    I just don't see it. If the PGA remained stubborn and did not institute their recent changes...maybe. But they've evolved for the better. That's not good news for LIV's future. 
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  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 14,826
    There is no possible way a competing golf tour can be setup and be a success in the first season.  It is going to take time to ever see if this takes off.  I doubt it will, but writing it off because it hasn't taken off yet after only 3 events or their players are over the hill doesn't make sense to me.  They have a lot of young players, and the more young players start coming over (if they do), then maybe over time it can compete.  As more legit pros and young players join, they'll get rid of people like Chase Koepka.  If they can find a way to get points, and some of these young players win a major or two, it could draw more eyes over to LIV.  A lot of ifs.  
    I just don't see it. If the PGA remained stubborn and did not institute their recent changes...maybe. But they've evolved for the better. That's not good news for LIV's future. 
    Yep, PGA’s moves definitely kept more people from leaving and will keep more eyes on the PGA when there isn’t NFL to compete with.
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 14,397
    This my point.  LIV has had only three tourneys and people are writing it off.  It takes time for people to care.   The format will change and evolve.   I am not saying it ever will ever take off but way too early to tell.
    I don't see it man.

    Like Cliff said, a lot of the guys they have are over the hill and injured frequently. The team stuff is just beyond corny to me. Everyone making the cut....just seems like a bunch of exhibitions that nobody cares about, especially with it not being on tv.

    Then you factor in the fact that the PGA Tour seems like it will be a whole lot more entertaining next year and it just makes LIV seem even more irrelevant to me. 

    Plus you mentioned that they are only halfway through the season....do you think they're going to garner more attention during football season? lol. 
    I don't know Juggs, as a lifelong supporter of the Hy Flyers, the team stuff is super important to me!

    I do wonder if some of these guys like Bryson, Koepka, Cam are thinking they'll just take the bag now and get their 100M and by the time their contracts are over the league will have folded and they'll just go back to the PGA Tour??  Especially those guys that will still be exempt into majors for the next few years.


  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,947
    This my point.  LIV has had only three tourneys and people are writing it off.  It takes time for people to care.   The format will change and evolve.   I am not saying it ever will ever take off but way too early to tell.
    I don't see it man.

    Like Cliff said, a lot of the guys they have are over the hill and injured frequently. The team stuff is just beyond corny to me. Everyone making the cut....just seems like a bunch of exhibitions that nobody cares about, especially with it not being on tv.

    Then you factor in the fact that the PGA Tour seems like it will be a whole lot more entertaining next year and it just makes LIV seem even more irrelevant to me. 

    Plus you mentioned that they are only halfway through the season....do you think they're going to garner more attention during football season? lol. 
    I don't know Juggs, as a lifelong supporter of the Hy Flyers, the team stuff is super important to me!

    I do wonder if some of these guys like Bryson, Koepka, Cam are thinking they'll just take the bag now and get their 100M and by the time their contracts are over the league will have folded and they'll just go back to the PGA Tour??  Especially those guys that will still be exempt into majors for the next few years.


    Monahan said there is no road back for LIV players, assume that means regardless of whether LIV exists or not.

    If players can get into majors in the future, if they get OWGR, then I think the PGA still has problems. Even with the changes, not sure the PGA can promise someone like Neimman something like $100 million. If they don't get OWGR, I think the PGA is golden and LIV will be a senior tour of sorts.
  • ddeschlerddeschler Posts: 527
    It's early days.  If they ever get OWGR points and a TV deal, look out.  They have way more money to throw at this than the Tour...I'm sure Koepka made keeping Chase a condition of his contract.
    I've seen quite a few Pearl Jam shows.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 14,826
    edited August 30
    I am not a LIV apologist, but they still have stroke play individual competitions outside of the team format (albeit 54 holes).  They require all players to play in all 14 events each year.  Sounds a lot like the PGA going forward.  LIV will make the changes to get OGWR points, so there will be 72 hole tournaments.  

    NFL, MLB and NBA have contracts with large guaranteed contracts and somehow people still watch.  Don’t see that being an issue with LIV going forward.  I think eventually they will stop doing the $100M guarantees as that was necessary just to get people to come over initially.   


  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,947
    I don't see the appeal if you aren't getting the guarantees that are so far above and beyond what you make on the PGA.  Basically all the benefits go out the window.  So now you have 72 hole tournaments and you have to play 14 events that are spread across the entire globe, add on the 4 majors and you are playing and travelling more than you would on the PGA.  I don't see anyone going if not for huge money.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,947
    The Firepit Collective has a great podcast with Andy Ogletree. I didn't realize how rough his career has been (hasn't even played a Korn Ferry event) since he won the Am...a lot of bad luck with COVID and injury.  Talked about how he literally had no where to play and LIV gave him an opportunity to play, so he did. He doesn't have any status so he's apparently only suspended until December, but that could be extended.

    He did have some points about how the Asian Tour is going to be playing for real money and will have a feeder system to LIV, so there could be a lot of up and comers that go that route. Interesting stuff. Highly recommended.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,175
    Bubba Watson and Harold Varner intro press conference to LIV. Nothing of note from Bubba. But I liked Harold's candor....


    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 14,826
    Yeah, Varner’s Instagram statement was great.  Honest.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,947
    Oh my goodness this has officially gone off the rails.  Don't make me agree with Gary Player on literally anything.

    The dude work a Golf Saudi shirt at the Masters for got sake.

  • ddeschlerddeschler Posts: 527
    Ogletree says he wasn't concerned with taking Saudi money because "I did my own research, and talked to the smartest people I know."  Hmm.  Also says if he had won a LIV event without KFT status, he could've come right back to the PGA Tour.  Maybe not too bright.
    I've seen quite a few Pearl Jam shows.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,947
    ddeschler said:
    Ogletree says he wasn't concerned with taking Saudi money because "I did my own research, and talked to the smartest people I know."  Hmm.  Also says if he had won a LIV event without KFT status, he could've come right back to the PGA Tour.  Maybe not too bright.
    Yeah I meant to say his comments on where the money came from were very soft, but clearly a pretty desperate kid 

    I also didn’t get that part either 
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 14,397
    Oh my goodness this has officially gone off the rails.  Don't make me agree with Gary Player on literally anything.

    The dude work a Golf Saudi shirt at the Masters for got sake.

    LOL.  Saw his statement and couldn't believe I actually agreed with him!
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 14,397
    The Firepit Collective has a great podcast with Andy Ogletree. I didn't realize how rough his career has been (hasn't even played a Korn Ferry event) since he won the Am...a lot of bad luck with COVID and injury.  Talked about how he literally had no where to play and LIV gave him an opportunity to play, so he did. He doesn't have any status so he's apparently only suspended until December, but that could be extended.

    He did have some points about how the Asian Tour is going to be playing for real money and will have a feeder system to LIV, so there could be a lot of up and comers that go that route. Interesting stuff. Highly recommended.
    I've been meaning to check that podcast out this week.  How could he be suspended if he was never on the Tour or KFT and has no status at all??
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,947
    Oh my goodness this has officially gone off the rails.  Don't make me agree with Gary Player on literally anything.

    The dude work a Golf Saudi shirt at the Masters for got sake.

    LOL.  Saw his statement and couldn't believe I actually agreed with him!
    Literally said Stenson is broke. Wild times.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,947
    The Firepit Collective has a great podcast with Andy Ogletree. I didn't realize how rough his career has been (hasn't even played a Korn Ferry event) since he won the Am...a lot of bad luck with COVID and injury.  Talked about how he literally had no where to play and LIV gave him an opportunity to play, so he did. He doesn't have any status so he's apparently only suspended until December, but that could be extended.

    He did have some points about how the Asian Tour is going to be playing for real money and will have a feeder system to LIV, so there could be a lot of up and comers that go that route. Interesting stuff. Highly recommended.
    I've been meaning to check that podcast out this week.  How could he be suspended if he was never on the Tour or KFT and has no status at all??
    I don't know...basically because he was in the final 100 of KFT qualifying he is affiliated with them in some capacity.  He said if he missed out on that 100, he wouldn't have any.  All that stuff is confusing to me and not sure he was even accurate.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 14,826
    Oh my goodness this has officially gone off the rails.  Don't make me agree with Gary Player on literally anything.

    The dude work a Golf Saudi shirt at the Masters for got sake.

    LOL.  Saw his statement and couldn't believe I actually agreed with him!
    Literally said Stenson is broke. Wild times.
    I heard he lost a ton of savings in a ponzi scheme.  Don't blame him for taking the money.  
  • ddeschlerddeschler Posts: 527
    He made it to the finals of KFT q-school and got conditional KFT status.
    I've seen quite a few Pearl Jam shows.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 43,606
    BOOM BOOM
    Always been a fan of Freddie because my dad loved him when I was a kid. 



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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,175
    I think they might be LIVing rent-free in ole Freddy’s head. LIVing……you get it. 

    I love all of this. I haven’t been this interested in golf since like prime Tiger when I was in college. For the actual play to a degree, but really for all this 90’s wrestling war-like drama. I’m finding myself watching Rory’s or Scheffler’s post-match pressers as well as the intro pressers for the LIV guys. Waiting to see what the next guy (Couples and Gary Player over the past two days) will say next. Fascinating time in golf history. And funny too. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,947
    Miiiiight be having a nice little afternoon/evening on Tuesday on a pretty course most made famous by Mr Tiger Woods
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