No, it isn't. Your words weren't even used, let alone twisted. H2TM was responding to your comment concerning perceived criminality among immigrants.
You are also twisting my words. Are you saying there are only criminal American citizens?? There has never been a criminal from south of the border come into this country? Stop trying to focus on twisting my words to sound like I think the majority of immigrants coming into this country are criminals. But you can bet your ass I don't want any of the drug dealing rapist gang members coming into this country no matter how small a percentage there is of them. Not one of those scumbags should be able to sneak in. Not only for the people that are already here but also for the immigrants that those low lifes try to prey on. Are the liberals able to comprehend that without twisting my words? I have a hunch not. lol
You claimed immigrant rapists and murderers were ruining it and yet they have a lower overall crime rate than native born. So, how did I twist your words?
Links? I haven't seen no stinkin' links that haven't been addressed or rebutted. Did you mean memes? Those I don't waste my time on. It seems you've ignored several links based on the never ending misquoted facts regarding this situation and what has happened in the past.
No, it isn't. Your words weren't even used, let alone twisted. H2TM was responding to your comment concerning perceived criminality among immigrants.
You are also twisting my words. Are you saying there are only criminal American citizens?? There has never been a criminal from south of the border come into this country? Stop trying to focus on twisting my words to sound like I think the majority of immigrants coming into this country are criminals. But you can bet your ass I don't want any of the drug dealing rapist gang members coming into this country no matter how small a percentage there is of them. Not one of those scumbags should be able to sneak in. Not only for the people that are already here but also for the immigrants that those low lifes try to prey on. Are the liberals able to comprehend that without twisting my words? I have a hunch not. lol
Why do you focus so much on the outliers? You do know that every group has it's criminal element, right? But, that really has little to do with the topic of immigration here anyway and yet you keep focusing on it. Are your letting fear talk? And your wording... "criminals from the south", "drug dealing rapist gang members", "scumbags". You really set yourself up for coming across as having some serious prejudices. You never talk about the vast majority of these people who are simply trying to flee from a terrible situation. You express no empathy for the down-trodden. You only talk about the outliers, those few nefarious souls (and yes there are some) but almost nothing about the vast many who are victims of injustice. Your viewpoint is extremely narrow. And I'm not going to claim that is because you are a "conservative" the way you categorize several of us as "liberals". No, I suspect your viewpoint is narrow because you are fearful. Good God, are these supposedly bad people beating down your door, raping your female family members, roaming your streets like packs of wolves and selling drugs behind your house? Jeez, I hope not!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
No, it isn't. Your words weren't even used, let alone twisted. H2TM was responding to your comment concerning perceived criminality among immigrants.
You are also twisting my words. Are you saying there are only criminal American citizens?? There has never been a criminal from south of the border come into this country? Stop trying to focus on twisting my words to sound like I think the majority of immigrants coming into this country are criminals. But you can bet your ass I don't want any of the drug dealing rapist gang members coming into this country no matter how small a percentage there is of them. Not one of those scumbags should be able to sneak in. Not only for the people that are already here but also for the immigrants that those low lifes try to prey on. Are the liberals able to comprehend that without twisting my words? I have a hunch not. lol
No, I'm not twisting your words. I'm disagreeing with you. If you want to talk twisting words, then I could ask you where I said in my post that the only criminals are American citizens, or that there has never been a criminal from south of the border. Seems like you question if I said that, but I don't see that in my post at all.
The facts are that these immigrants from Mexico and Central America have an overall lower crime rate than native born Americans. Thus, letting more such immigrants in would actually lower the American crime rate, since more upstanding, law abiding individuals would be living in the US. Does that mean that absolutely every immigrant is law abiding? Of course not, but neither is absolutely every individual born in the US, and proportionately more born in the US are going to break the law than those immigrating there.
People are people. No group of people is ever going to only have "good" without any "bad" - or, as you might like to say, "scumbags", which wouldn't be my choice of word. A greater number of immigrants is likely to enrich your country rather than worsen it.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
While any death is tragic, a February 2018 study by the Cato Institute using 2015 crime statistics from Texas found immigrants in the country illegally were 25 percent less likely to be convicted of homicide than native-born Americans. (Legal immigrants were 87 percent less likely.)
According to the study, immigrants in the country illegally were also 11.5 percent less likely than native-born Americans to be convicted of sexual assault and 79 percent less likely to be convicted of larceny.
The study found higher conviction rates among illegal immigrants for gambling, kidnapping, smuggling and vagrancy, but those offenses were rare and made up a tiny fraction of overall crime in Texas in 2015.
A separate March 2018 study in the journal Criminology looked at whether violent crime increases as the number of immigrants living illegally in a community goes up. Researchers found it does not. If anything, the opposite is true: Violent crime appears to fall when more immigrants are living in a community illegally.
Trump disputed those findings during his White House event Friday but he did not offer evidence to the contrary.
In the aggregate, Trump said, immigrants in the country illegally are responsible for tens of thousands of crimes. He pointed to a 2011 study by the Government Accountability Officewhich estimated undocumented immigrants had committed some 25,000 homicides, 42,000 robberies and nearly 70,000 sex offenses. That estimate was extrapolated from a survey of 1,000 undocumented immigrants held in state and federal prisons. It offered no time frame in which the crimes might have been committed and no basis for comparison with the native-born population.
In the past, the president has exaggerated threats facing the U.S. to justify his travel ban, tough-on-crime measures and a now-folded commission on voter fraud.
While any death is tragic, a February 2018 study by the Cato Institute using 2015 crime statistics from Texas found immigrants in the country illegally were 25 percent less likely to be convicted of homicide than native-born Americans. (Legal immigrants were 87 percent less likely.)
According to the study, immigrants in the country illegally were also 11.5 percent less likely than native-born Americans to be convicted of sexual assault and 79 percent less likely to be convicted of larceny.
The study found higher conviction rates among illegal immigrants for gambling, kidnapping, smuggling and vagrancy, but those offenses were rare and made up a tiny fraction of overall crime in Texas in 2015.
A separate March 2018 study in the journal Criminology looked at whether violent crime increases as the number of immigrants living illegally in a community goes up. Researchers found it does not. If anything, the opposite is true: Violent crime appears to fall when more immigrants are living in a community illegally.
Trump disputed those findings during his White House event Friday but he did not offer evidence to the contrary.
In the aggregate, Trump said, immigrants in the country illegally are responsible for tens of thousands of crimes. He pointed to a 2011 study by the Government Accountability Officewhich estimated undocumented immigrants had committed some 25,000 homicides, 42,000 robberies and nearly 70,000 sex offenses. That estimate was extrapolated from a survey of 1,000 undocumented immigrants held in state and federal prisons. It offered no time frame in which the crimes might have been committed and no basis for comparison with the native-born population.
In the past, the president has exaggerated threats facing the U.S. to justify his travel ban, tough-on-crime measures and a now-folded commission on voter fraud.
Facts? What facts? Who needs facts? Just make shit up and when called out on it, make up more shit. Great way to run a country. Right into the ground.
No, it isn't. Your words weren't even used, let alone twisted. H2TM was responding to your comment concerning perceived criminality among immigrants.
You are also twisting my words. Are you saying there are only criminal American citizens?? There has never been a criminal from south of the border come into this country? Stop trying to focus on twisting my words to sound like I think the majority of immigrants coming into this country are criminals. But you can bet your ass I don't want any of the drug dealing rapist gang members coming into this country no matter how small a percentage there is of them. Not one of those scumbags should be able to sneak in. Not only for the people that are already here but also for the immigrants that those low lifes try to prey on. Are the liberals able to comprehend that without twisting my words? I have a hunch not. lol
And some, I assume, are good people. Jeez, man. Fear leads to hate leads to anger leads to the dark side of racism browser.
Nobody is twisting your words dude, they are responding to the implications of your statements. That's how debate works. Another way debate and discussion is supposed to work is that you provide evidence for your claims...
No, it isn't. Your words weren't even used, let alone twisted. H2TM was responding to your comment concerning perceived criminality among immigrants.
You are also twisting my words. Are you saying there are only criminal American citizens?? There has never been a criminal from south of the border come into this country? Stop trying to focus on twisting my words to sound like I think the majority of immigrants coming into this country are criminals. But you can bet your ass I don't want any of the drug dealing rapist gang members coming into this country no matter how small a percentage there is of them. Not one of those scumbags should be able to sneak in. Not only for the people that are already here but also for the immigrants that those low lifes try to prey on. Are the liberals able to comprehend that without twisting my words? I have a hunch not. lol
Question: Do you think our scumbag drug dealing rapist gang murderers are inherently better than the ones from south of the border?
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
the criminals and rapists are what cause this problem. People fear that along with the good people that cross the border the criminals will also be allowed and were allowed under the previous administration. That's why the drugs and crime from the gangs increased. We have to make sure the immigrants entering are not criminals or terrorists. Once again, I agree that immigrants have been conveniently allowed into the country when needed. I would love to hear what you all would do to bring in immigrants without our countries economy collapsing? There is so much bitching about it but no solutions.
Are you just making shit up as you go?
"bitching?" You call having strong feelings and opinions about atrocious treatment of children as "bitching"?
As for no solutions- I and others her have made suggestions.
the criminals and rapists are what cause this problem. People fear that along with the good people that cross the border the criminals will also be allowed and were allowed under the previous administration. That's why the drugs and crime from the gangs increased. We have to make sure the immigrants entering are not criminals or terrorists. Once again, I agree that immigrants have been conveniently allowed into the country when needed. I would love to hear what you all would do to bring in immigrants without our countries economy collapsing? There is so much bitching about it but no solutions.
Are you just making shit up as you go?
"bitching?" You call having strong feelings and opinions about atrocious treatment of children as "bitching"?
As for no solutions- I and others her have made suggestions.
Isn't like a big part of your economy built on "immigrants"?
And is there data to show that immigrants make up more of the crime than people born in the US?
To me your post sounds like:
I agree- that's exactly what it sounds like.
Number one don'tcompare me to him. You far left liberals love twisting peoples words to fit your agenda. You also conveniently ignore posts that have links to back up non far left liberal views. I see it over and over again in this thread. LOL I asked the question what is your solution?
Fair enough and my apologies. Comparisons are a) unfair, b) personal and against the rules. My bad.
Solutions (yet again):
If the person is seeking political asylum (it's amazing how this keeps getting overlooked) help them make that tradition. I think that is a FAR more reasonable solution than whisking their kids off, don't you.
End the stupid fucking drug war. (I know I use the F word too often lately but the drug was really is fucking stupid.) The drug war is not working. It is creating more criminals. Decriminalize/ legalize ALL drugs. That's right, all. Users will use, legal or not. This is well known.
Have the U.S. spend less money on an offensive military, maintain a good defensive military and use some of the money saved to develop programs to help other countries become strong and independent. But no, Americans don't think like that. Look how we solve our own problems with crime. Do we get to the root of the problem of why there is so much crime? No, that's too logical. We go the lazy route and build more prisons (and develop a larger prisoner work force. Hmmm.)
Educate the American voting population so that we will stop electing clueless Bozos who don't have a clue. Problems are only exacerbated by incompetent elected officials.
I've said all this before a number of times. Please don't ask again. Thank you.
I do agree that ending the ridiculously failed drug war would solve 99% of the border issues related to the cartels. That would clear up a lot of resources to focus on human trafficking issues as well. Cut off the financial motivation of running drugs across the border and you will see these drug lords and cartels eat themselves in their own territory.
Not sure I understand the comparison to native born or legal citizens with regards to crime & immigration. Do these folks realize that ANY crime at all by immigrants is ADDED crime? If you have 100,000 illegal immigrants and 2% commit crimes that’s 2,000 additional crimes. I’m not sure anyone cares about crimes in proportion or comparison to legal citizen’s crimes. We all want less crime, not less crime in proportion to something.
I'm like an opening band for your mom.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I care.
Democrats have abandoned the middle class, stop importing replacement votes.
I see a lot disputing the crim rates of illegals. When looking for myself it seemed most resources tried to say the same thing, but did so by completing ignoring the population difference. Of what I read those sources don’t factor in the difference of populations. If 5% of the populations commits 10% of the crime, you can’t claim they commit less crime.
Now I don’t think most immigrants, legal or not, are bad people. I think Trumps quote should be flipped, most are good, and I assume some are bad. This is just my input on the debate over level of crime that I saw happening.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
It’s a crime to take toddlers & infants from parents if we can all agree that should be the starting point of this convo , crossing the border is illegal but the punishment doesn’t fit the crime & now let’s see how many kids end up not being able to be reunited with their biological parents , the ramifications of this policy that was put into place by this administration will be felt yrs from now on a grander scale these kids & parents were treated like subhumans !
Democrats have abandoned the middle class, stop importing replacement votes.
Did you vet all that out before you posted it, or just relying on teh Conservative Tree House or Facebook for your data?
Time has already issued a correction.
Did they vet out their info before they put it on their cover? Did you ask them? Why not?
What correction?
This one(?):
Update: Time is standing by its cover. Editor-in-chief Edward Felsenthal says in a statement: “The June 12 photograph of the 2-year-old Honduran girl became the most visible symbol of the ongoing immigration debate in America for a reason: Under the policy enforced by the administration, prior to its reversal this week, those who crossed the border illegally were criminally prosecuted, which in turn resulted in the separation of children and parents. Our cover and our reporting capture the stakes of this moment.”
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
You claimed immigrant rapists and murderers were ruining it and yet they have a lower overall crime rate than native born. So, how did I twist your words?
Well I guess it does look like they have a lower crime rate than we do in those countries considering the governments of those countries are in partnership with all the gang drug dealing traffickers. They only arrest the honest people there to shake em down for their money or to enslave them. That's why we have so many people trying to get into this country. Wake up. Don't defend garbage gang members and terrorists. Your view is laughable. Talk to the people they have pimped out begging for money. I pray to God there is some way that this country will be able to help the good people from those countries but we can't let just anyone in without proper vetting and we don't have the resources to support the number of people coming over. We fix one issue and it creates another issue. I don't know what we can do short of going to war with those countries to help their people take it back over so the corruption and crimes against them stop.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,920
No, it isn't. Your words weren't even used, let alone twisted. H2TM was responding to your comment concerning perceived criminality among immigrants.
You are also twisting my words. Are you saying there are only criminal American citizens?? There has never been a criminal from south of the border come into this country? Stop trying to focus on twisting my words to sound like I think the majority of immigrants coming into this country are criminals. But you can bet your ass I don't want any of the drug dealing rapist gang members coming into this country no matter how small a percentage there is of them. Not one of those scumbags should be able to sneak in. Not only for the people that are already here but also for the immigrants that those low lifes try to prey on. Are the liberals able to comprehend that without twisting my words? I have a hunch not. lol
Question: Do you think our scumbag drug dealing rapist gang murderers are inherently better than the ones from south of the border?
The worst criminals are the beasts who would separate children from
there parents. Most scumbag drug dealing rapist gang murderers don't
even do that.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
No, it isn't. Your words weren't even used, let alone twisted. H2TM was responding to your comment concerning perceived criminality among immigrants.
You are also twisting my words. Are you saying there are only criminal American citizens?? There has never been a criminal from south of the border come into this country? Stop trying to focus on twisting my words to sound like I think the majority of immigrants coming into this country are criminals. But you can bet your ass I don't want any of the drug dealing rapist gang members coming into this country no matter how small a percentage there is of them. Not one of those scumbags should be able to sneak in. Not only for the people that are already here but also for the immigrants that those low lifes try to prey on. Are the liberals able to comprehend that without twisting my words? I have a hunch not. lol
Question: Do you think our scumbag drug dealing rapist gang murderers are inherently better than the ones from south of the border?
HaHa No but if you f'n liberals stopped fighting for the rights of convicted scumbag murdering rapist drug dealing gang members then maybe it would be harder for them to get back out on the streets.And sanother thing, stop making their time in prison comfortable.
Wonder what she was doing way the hell out in Lexington. Ballsy by the restaurant. Taht's a very conservative, rural area. Right next to VMI and Washington and Lee University.
No, it isn't. Your words weren't even used, let alone twisted. H2TM was responding to your comment concerning perceived criminality among immigrants.
You are also twisting my words. Are you saying there are only criminal American citizens?? There has never been a criminal from south of the border come into this country? Stop trying to focus on twisting my words to sound like I think the majority of immigrants coming into this country are criminals. But you can bet your ass I don't want any of the drug dealing rapist gang members coming into this country no matter how small a percentage there is of them. Not one of those scumbags should be able to sneak in. Not only for the people that are already here but also for the immigrants that those low lifes try to prey on. Are the liberals able to comprehend that without twisting my words? I have a hunch not. lol
Question: Do you think our scumbag drug dealing rapist gang murderers are inherently better than the ones from south of the border?
HaHa No but if you f'n liberals stopped fighting for the rights of convicted scumbag murdering rapist drug dealing gang members then maybe it would be harder for them to get back out on the streets.And sanother thing, stop making their time in prison comfortable.
You mean stop abiding by the constitution? Fascism it is then.
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No, it isn't. Your words weren't even used, let alone twisted. H2TM was responding to your comment concerning perceived criminality among immigrants.
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Why do you focus so much on the outliers? You do know that every group has it's criminal element, right? But, that really has little to do with the topic of immigration here anyway and yet you keep focusing on it. Are your letting fear talk? And your wording... "criminals from the south", "drug dealing rapist gang members", "scumbags". You really set yourself up for coming across as having some serious prejudices. You never talk about the vast majority of these people who are simply trying to flee from a terrible situation. You express no empathy for the down-trodden. You only talk about the outliers, those few nefarious souls (and yes there are some) but almost nothing about the vast many who are victims of injustice. Your viewpoint is extremely narrow. And I'm not going to claim that is because you are a "conservative" the way you categorize several of us as "liberals". No, I suspect your viewpoint is narrow because you are fearful. Good God, are these supposedly bad people beating down your door, raping your female family members, roaming your streets like packs of wolves and selling drugs behind your house? Jeez, I hope not!
The facts are that these immigrants from Mexico and Central America have an overall lower crime rate than native born Americans. Thus, letting more such immigrants in would actually lower the American crime rate, since more upstanding, law abiding individuals would be living in the US. Does that mean that absolutely every immigrant is law abiding? Of course not, but neither is absolutely every individual born in the US, and proportionately more born in the US are going to break the law than those immigrating there.
People are people. No group of people is ever going to only have "good" without any "bad" - or, as you might like to say, "scumbags", which wouldn't be my choice of word. A greater number of immigrants is likely to enrich your country rather than worsen it.
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/22/622540331/fact-check-trump-illegal-immigration-and-crime
From the article:
While any death is tragic, a February 2018 study by the Cato Institute using 2015 crime statistics from Texas found immigrants in the country illegally were 25 percent less likely to be convicted of homicide than native-born Americans. (Legal immigrants were 87 percent less likely.)
According to the study, immigrants in the country illegally were also 11.5 percent less likely than native-born Americans to be convicted of sexual assault and 79 percent less likely to be convicted of larceny.
The study found higher conviction rates among illegal immigrants for gambling, kidnapping, smuggling and vagrancy, but those offenses were rare and made up a tiny fraction of overall crime in Texas in 2015.
A separate March 2018 study in the journal Criminology looked at whether violent crime increases as the number of immigrants living illegally in a community goes up. Researchers found it does not. If anything, the opposite is true: Violent crime appears to fall when more immigrants are living in a community illegally.
Trump disputed those findings during his White House event Friday but he did not offer evidence to the contrary.
In the aggregate, Trump said, immigrants in the country illegally are responsible for tens of thousands of crimes. He pointed to a 2011 study by the Government Accountability Officewhich estimated undocumented immigrants had committed some 25,000 homicides, 42,000 robberies and nearly 70,000 sex offenses. That estimate was extrapolated from a survey of 1,000 undocumented immigrants held in state and federal prisons. It offered no time frame in which the crimes might have been committed and no basis for comparison with the native-born population.
In the past, the president has exaggerated threats facing the U.S. to justify his travel ban, tough-on-crime measures and a now-folded commission on voter fraud.
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Nobody is twisting your words dude, they are responding to the implications of your statements. That's how debate works. Another way debate and discussion is supposed to work is that you provide evidence for your claims...
Do you think our scumbag drug dealing rapist gang murderers are inherently better than the ones from south of the border?
Democrats have abandoned the middle class, stop importing replacement votes.
Of what I read those sources don’t factor in the difference of populations. If 5% of the populations commits 10% of the crime, you can’t claim they commit less crime.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/
Another link claiming illegals commit less crime, but again ignores the population difference in the data. When you consider the population difference it’s a completely different result.
https://kriskobach.com/breitbart-columns/breitbart-columns-correcting-the-record-on-illegal-aliens-and-crime/
This article states that illegals make up 14% of federal prisons, but only 3-6% of the population.
Now I don’t think most immigrants, legal or not, are bad people. I think Trumps quote should be flipped, most are good, and I assume some are bad.
This is just my input on the debate over level of crime that I saw happening.
Did they vet out their info before they put it on their cover? Did you ask them? Why not?
This one(?):
Update: Time is standing by its cover. Editor-in-chief Edward Felsenthal says in a statement: “The June 12 photograph of the 2-year-old Honduran girl became the most visible symbol of the ongoing immigration debate in America for a reason: Under the policy enforced by the administration, prior to its reversal this week, those who crossed the border illegally were criminally prosecuted, which in turn resulted in the separation of children and parents. Our cover and our reporting capture the stakes of this moment.”
The worst criminals are the beasts who would separate children from there parents. Most scumbag drug dealing rapist gang murderers don't even do that.
Virginia Restaurant 86es Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Her Family - Splinter https://apple.news/AXSK-b0UmR9S2fiX8w4kKSQ
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