we (christians) do believe some weird things. of course, if we dissect anyone's belief/worldview we'll find we ALL believe in some pretty weird things.
...
Which is the truth... ALL religions believe in some pretty wierd things. Whether it is spaceships, talking snakes, women made from a rib, reincarnation, volcanoes, etc... it's fine. It is called 'Faith'. Belief in something that cannot be proven... just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or leprechauns.
I have no problems with religions... EXCEPT when they try to apply their beliefs on my life. I say, believe what you may... and go through your journey in peace. Just do me the same favor and let me go my way.
agreed. but i would also add that someone expressing their faith is not the same as forcing another to also believe. i think sometimes the distinction is lost and results in frustration on both sides.
we (christians) do believe some weird things. of course, if we dissect anyone's belief/worldview we'll find we ALL believe in some pretty weird things.
...
Which is the truth... ALL religions believe in some pretty wierd things. Whether it is spaceships, talking snakes, women made from a rib, reincarnation, volcanoes, etc... it's fine. It is called 'Faith'. Belief in something that cannot be proven... just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny or leprechauns.
I have no problems with religions... EXCEPT when they try to apply their beliefs on my life. I say, believe what you may... and go through your journey in peace. Just do me the same favor and let me go my way.
agreed. but i would also add that someone expressing their faith is not the same as forcing another to also believe. i think sometimes the distinction is lost and results in frustration on both sides.
agreed. but i would also add that someone expressing their faith is not the same as forcing another to also believe. i think sometimes the distinction is lost and results in frustration on both sides.
...
I completely agree with you. Faith is personal and you use it to guide you through your life. If you want to celebreate your belief... not a problem.
I take issue with people wanting to LEGISLATE based upon their religious belief. Prayer in schools is an example. I have no problem with individual kids praying... I am opposed to school mandated prayers LEAD by school authority figures. That places one religion over all. Private religious schools... no problem. Public tax funded schools... problem.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I think scientology is wacky ... yet most people in it seem happier then the average person. hmm ...
I had a supervisor in San Diego that wanted to help me with my public speaking and gave me a number to call that offered classes to help. When I called it, the church of scientology answered ... I hung up immediately assuming I dialed the wrong number. I re-dialed and the same person answered ... and I hung up immediately once again.
My rule of thumb is that if you are going to try to entice me into a religion, it has to have been around longer then my parents ... with the exception of the Jedi Order that is. It's hard to shoot holes into something that has been around for thousands of years, but if it's some dude who wrote science fiction books for a living ... and founded a religion that is based upon space aliens ... well, they have better have some super good looking females to seduce me in. It's going to take more then a speaking class and a book to fool me.
you can shoot holes in any religion regardless of its age.
I agree, but it seems like an older religion with wacky rules has more credibility, since there isn't much proof of what really happened during the early stages.
I agree, but it seems like an older religion with wacky rules has more credibility, since there isn't much proof of what really happened during the early stages.
sorry i still disagree.
age does not equal credibility as far as religion goes.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
when our time comes to pass then we will know,is it a gamble worth taking ?
I'm not looking for a argument I'm just asking, anybody may believe as they wish
I wouldn't judge anybody for their beliefs.
I agree, but it seems like an older religion with wacky rules has more credibility, since there isn't much proof of what really happened during the early stages.
sorry i still disagree.
age does not equal credibility as far as religion goes.
sounds fair but what does give credibility to any religion ? is it faith.
agreed. but i would also add that someone expressing their faith is not the same as forcing another to also believe. i think sometimes the distinction is lost and results in frustration on both sides.
...
I completely agree with you. Faith is personal and you use it to guide you through your life. If you want to celebreate your belief... not a problem.
I take issue with people wanting to LEGISLATE based upon their religious belief. Prayer in schools is an example. I have no problem with individual kids praying... I am opposed to school mandated prayers LEAD by school authority figures. That places one religion over all. Private religious schools... no problem. Public tax funded schools... problem.
i completely agree, especially when it comes to prayer in schools.
where this gets tough to enforce is that everyone's faith functions as a worldview, which influences their choices in supporting, opposing, or creating legislation. now, i don't believe that christians, muslims, or any other faith should be forcing their practices on anyone through legislation, but it is impossible to suggest that anyone, of any faith, will function independent of their worldview. so christian lawmakers are going to support legislation that fits their understanding of a christian worldview, likewise muslim lawmakers are going to support legislation that fits their understanding of a muslim worldview, same for jews, atheists, etc. thankfully we can agree on a lot of the big stuff regardless of our faith differences.
I agree, but it seems like an older religion with wacky rules has more credibility, since there isn't much proof of what really happened during the early stages.
sorry i still disagree.
age does not equal credibility as far as religion goes.
Age may not equal credibility, but it makes it more difficult to disprove something that has been passed-down for thousands of years. It is easier to find facts about the origins of a religion that was founded 50 or 60 years ago.
None the less, people have the right to worship as they see fit, as long as it doesn't bring harm to others.
None the less, people have the right to worship as they see fit, as long as it doesn't bring harm to others.
i agree ... free to worship. nice to say that, but i feel that isn't true either. i believe religion has done more harm than good. just my opinion.
"difficult to disprove"
funny. if i couldn't see or read or know how a religion started, that in itself would make me less likely to follow. but some would call that faith wouldn't they?
people create religion and they do whatever they damn well please with it. that's why any religion will never be credible/perfect. i do see some good in religion, but on the whole it's not for me.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
Scientologists haven't started a war based on their beliefs, or killed other people based on theirs, so I'm cool with them.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
when our time comes to pass then we will know,is it a gamble worth taking ?
I'm not looking for a argument I'm just asking, anybody may believe as they wish
I wouldn't judge anybody for their beliefs.
Godfather.
...
If that is how you choose to live your life... great. I hope it all works out for you.
...
As for me... personally... I believe faith goes beyond just hedging my bets that what the church says is true. I'm not going to play along with church rules, 'Just in case' God is the vengeful, angry Father the church portrays Him as.
I have faith that God is all loving and sees me for who I am... for what I do... and why I do. I am not asking for any rewards... I'm just hoping for acceptance... as an imperfect human, with all of these unanswered questions, who is just trying to get through this journey the best I can. The God I believe in loves all and accepts us for who we are and what we contribute to humanity... regardless of religion... and including those who don't even believe in Him. My belief is God is not as narcissistic as religions make Him out to be.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
when our time comes to pass then we will know,is it a gamble worth taking ?
I'm not looking for a argument I'm just asking, anybody may believe as they wish
I wouldn't judge anybody for their beliefs.
Godfather.
...
If that is how you choose to live your life... great. I hope it all works out for you.
...
As for me... personally... I believe faith goes beyond just hedging my bets that what the church says is true. I'm not going to play along with church rules, 'Just in case' God is the vengeful, angry Father the church portrays Him as.
I have faith that God is all loving and sees me for who I am... for what I do... and why I do. I am not asking for any rewards... I'm just hoping for acceptance... as an imperfect human, with all of these unanswered questions, who is just trying to get through this journey the best I can. The God I believe in loves all and accepts us for who we are and what we contribute to humanity... regardless of religion... and including those who don't even believe in Him. My belief is God is not as narcissistic as religions make Him out to be.
I always wonder (well not always) what % of people follow religion out of fear, as opposed to those who follow because of tradition, the feeling of belonging or the sense of well-being they derive.
I always wonder (well not always) what % of people follow religion out of fear, as opposed to those who follow because of tradition, the feeling of belonging or the sense of well-being they derive.
...
Fear is a great motivator. There is a lot of fear related to religion... the whole eternity in Hell... Demons ripping at you flesh... pain... suffering... agony...
Unless you do as we prescribe you do... just follow these rules.
...
If you read the New Testament... Jesus points out the hypocracy He sees in the church. His lessons are to get you back to the source... to God.
The great irony is that the hypocracy endures... in the church that was founded in His name. All you need to do is listen to what is said... and witness what is done. I would have more faith in the church if I saw its leaders and followers doing what they say they do... follow Christ's example, instead of simply calling out His name.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
in regards to Christianity, there are those who find church to be a comforting place, a place where they can gather and talk about life's hardships or bliss, and have a comforting shoulder and good advice (mostly) to help them throughout life. Many (most?) of them do this without thinking that the bible is to be taken literally.
What's wrong with that? It ain't always about fear...
That's why I have a problem with the hard core atheist who laugh at all religions, and why I remain open-minded (Agnostic).
Scientologists, on the other hand... those birds are outta their tree.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
That's why I have a problem with the hard core atheist who laugh at all religions, and why I remain open-minded (Agnostic).
Scientologists, on the other hand... those birds are outta their tree.
Didn't you just contradict yourself?
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
That's why I have a problem with the hard core atheist who laugh at all religions, and why I remain open-minded (Agnostic).
Scientologists, on the other hand... those birds are outta their tree.
Didn't you just contradict yourself?
seriously? No. I'm open-minded but that doesn't mean I have to think that scientology is a favorable belief system, or that aliens visit me at night, or that the Jews were behind 9/11, and so on. Christianity, especially the new testament, and most people who label themselves as Christians, are not so outlandish concepts and people. Scientologists are clearly nutjobs without even a toe in the tepid water of reality.
edit: but I don't "believe" in any ideology... whether that be religion, politics, morality, etc. The hallmark of a truly free man is the man who believes in nothing.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
The most interesting thing about it is that it began as a bet between L. Ron Hubbard and Philip K. Dick (Minority Report, among others). Or so I've heard. They were both writing students and they bet each other as to who could start a religion first.
Urban legend? Maybe. But it's just too ridiculous to be less than skeptical. Kind of seems like the bet is a feasible explanation.
Philip K. Dick was one crazy dude (or was he?). I need to learn more about him.
in regards to Christianity, there are those who find church to be a comforting place, a place where they can gather and talk about life's hardships or bliss, and have a comforting shoulder and good advice (mostly) to help them throughout life. Many (most?) of them do this without thinking that the bible is to be taken literally.
What's wrong with that? It ain't always about fear...
That's why I have a problem with the hard core atheist who laugh at all religions, and why I remain open-minded (Agnostic).
Scientologists, on the other hand... those birds are outta their tree.
i am an atheist and to me ALL religions are the same. ALL of them. i might not laugh at them but i sure do roll my eyes a lot.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That's why I have a problem with the hard core atheist who laugh at all religions, and why I remain open-minded (Agnostic).
Scientologists, on the other hand... those birds are outta their tree.
Didn't you just contradict yourself?
seriously? No. I'm open-minded but that doesn't mean I have to think that scientology is a favorable belief system, or that aliens visit me at night, or that the Jews were behind 9/11, and so on. Christianity, especially the new testament, and most people who label themselves as Christians, are not so outlandish concepts and people. Scientologists are clearly nutjobs without even a toe in the tepid water of reality.
edit: but I don't "believe" in any ideology... whether that be religion, politics, morality, etc. The hallmark of a truly free man is the man who believes in nothing.
yeah i think you did. you said you were open minded then you said scientologists were out of their trees. doesnt sound too open minded to me.
dont you see that to some, the concept of GOD is as outlandish to them as scientology is to you?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
yeah i think you did. you said you were open minded then you said scientologists were out of their trees. doesnt sound too open minded to me.
dont you see that to some, the concept of GOD is as outlandish to them as scientology is to you?
if being "open minded" necessitates that I accept ALL ideologies as being an acceptable model, than I am not open minded... because I don't have patience for nazi's, sociopaths, NAMBLA, or scientologists, among a few others.
But, I think even the most open-minded individuals can draw a line in the sand SOMEWHERE.... and that is what I'm doing. Scientology is on the other side of that line.
Sure, I can see that the concept of God is outlandish to some, but that's just because we all have a different reality tunnel. Their reality tunnel and perspective of reality are just as valid as mine. This is all opinion here... nothing is really objective... so I'm just trying to seduce you into my reality tunnel (isn't that what you're doing as well?).
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
nope. I dont care whether you believe in God or not. Its not my job to 'seduce you into my reality tunnel' and i dont care to. All i know is, in my life and the 'reality' of that, God does not exist.... and will never exist.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
All religions are based on belief - not fact.. so matter if it's the most common and respected religion or the least, silliest sounding religion.. they're all one in the same as they are based on things you can not prove. Whether aliens bringing humans to earth or resurrection.. it's all irrational, illogical but believed by many as "faith" and "belief".
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
All religions are based on belief - not fact.. so matter if it's the most common and respected religion or the least, silliest sounding religion.. they're all one in the same as they are based on things you can not prove. Whether aliens bringing humans to earth or resurrection.. it's all irrational, illogical but believed by many as "faith" and "belief".
excellent way to explain it.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
Comments
agreed. but i would also add that someone expressing their faith is not the same as forcing another to also believe. i think sometimes the distinction is lost and results in frustration on both sides.
good call.
Godfather.
I completely agree with you. Faith is personal and you use it to guide you through your life. If you want to celebreate your belief... not a problem.
I take issue with people wanting to LEGISLATE based upon their religious belief. Prayer in schools is an example. I have no problem with individual kids praying... I am opposed to school mandated prayers LEAD by school authority figures. That places one religion over all. Private religious schools... no problem. Public tax funded schools... problem.
Hail, Hail!!!
I had a supervisor in San Diego that wanted to help me with my public speaking and gave me a number to call that offered classes to help. When I called it, the church of scientology answered ... I hung up immediately assuming I dialed the wrong number. I re-dialed and the same person answered ... and I hung up immediately once again.
My rule of thumb is that if you are going to try to entice me into a religion, it has to have been around longer then my parents ... with the exception of the Jedi Order that is. It's hard to shoot holes into something that has been around for thousands of years, but if it's some dude who wrote science fiction books for a living ... and founded a religion that is based upon space aliens ... well, they have better have some super good looking females to seduce me in. It's going to take more then a speaking class and a book to fool me.
I agree, but it seems like an older religion with wacky rules has more credibility, since there isn't much proof of what really happened during the early stages.
sorry i still disagree.
age does not equal credibility as far as religion goes.
I'm not looking for a argument I'm just asking, anybody may believe as they wish
I wouldn't judge anybody for their beliefs.
Godfather.
sounds fair but what does give credibility to any religion ? is it faith.
Godfather.
i completely agree, especially when it comes to prayer in schools.
where this gets tough to enforce is that everyone's faith functions as a worldview, which influences their choices in supporting, opposing, or creating legislation. now, i don't believe that christians, muslims, or any other faith should be forcing their practices on anyone through legislation, but it is impossible to suggest that anyone, of any faith, will function independent of their worldview. so christian lawmakers are going to support legislation that fits their understanding of a christian worldview, likewise muslim lawmakers are going to support legislation that fits their understanding of a muslim worldview, same for jews, atheists, etc. thankfully we can agree on a lot of the big stuff regardless of our faith differences.
in my opinion.
Age may not equal credibility, but it makes it more difficult to disprove something that has been passed-down for thousands of years. It is easier to find facts about the origins of a religion that was founded 50 or 60 years ago.
None the less, people have the right to worship as they see fit, as long as it doesn't bring harm to others.
i agree ... free to worship. nice to say that, but i feel that isn't true either. i believe religion has done more harm than good. just my opinion.
"difficult to disprove"
funny. if i couldn't see or read or know how a religion started, that in itself would make me less likely to follow. but some would call that faith wouldn't they?
people create religion and they do whatever they damn well please with it. that's why any religion will never be credible/perfect. i do see some good in religion, but on the whole it's not for me.
If that is how you choose to live your life... great. I hope it all works out for you.
...
As for me... personally... I believe faith goes beyond just hedging my bets that what the church says is true. I'm not going to play along with church rules, 'Just in case' God is the vengeful, angry Father the church portrays Him as.
I have faith that God is all loving and sees me for who I am... for what I do... and why I do. I am not asking for any rewards... I'm just hoping for acceptance... as an imperfect human, with all of these unanswered questions, who is just trying to get through this journey the best I can. The God I believe in loves all and accepts us for who we are and what we contribute to humanity... regardless of religion... and including those who don't even believe in Him. My belief is God is not as narcissistic as religions make Him out to be.
Hail, Hail!!!
I always wonder (well not always) what % of people follow religion out of fear, as opposed to those who follow because of tradition, the feeling of belonging or the sense of well-being they derive.
Fear is a great motivator. There is a lot of fear related to religion... the whole eternity in Hell... Demons ripping at you flesh... pain... suffering... agony...
Unless you do as we prescribe you do... just follow these rules.
...
If you read the New Testament... Jesus points out the hypocracy He sees in the church. His lessons are to get you back to the source... to God.
The great irony is that the hypocracy endures... in the church that was founded in His name. All you need to do is listen to what is said... and witness what is done. I would have more faith in the church if I saw its leaders and followers doing what they say they do... follow Christ's example, instead of simply calling out His name.
Hail, Hail!!!
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
What's wrong with that? It ain't always about fear...
That's why I have a problem with the hard core atheist who laugh at all religions, and why I remain open-minded (Agnostic).
Scientologists, on the other hand... those birds are outta their tree.
seriously? No. I'm open-minded but that doesn't mean I have to think that scientology is a favorable belief system, or that aliens visit me at night, or that the Jews were behind 9/11, and so on. Christianity, especially the new testament, and most people who label themselves as Christians, are not so outlandish concepts and people. Scientologists are clearly nutjobs without even a toe in the tepid water of reality.
edit: but I don't "believe" in any ideology... whether that be religion, politics, morality, etc. The hallmark of a truly free man is the man who believes in nothing.
This is Good
Great post!! Very well said, open minded, and full of common sense.
And as always Godfather, I enjoy your post!!
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
i am an atheist and to me ALL religions are the same. ALL of them. i might not laugh at them but i sure do roll my eyes a lot.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
yeah i think you did. you said you were open minded then you said scientologists were out of their trees. doesnt sound too open minded to me.
dont you see that to some, the concept of GOD is as outlandish to them as scientology is to you?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
if being "open minded" necessitates that I accept ALL ideologies as being an acceptable model, than I am not open minded... because I don't have patience for nazi's, sociopaths, NAMBLA, or scientologists, among a few others.
But, I think even the most open-minded individuals can draw a line in the sand SOMEWHERE.... and that is what I'm doing. Scientology is on the other side of that line.
Sure, I can see that the concept of God is outlandish to some, but that's just because we all have a different reality tunnel. Their reality tunnel and perspective of reality are just as valid as mine. This is all opinion here... nothing is really objective... so I'm just trying to seduce you into my reality tunnel (isn't that what you're doing as well?).
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
excellent way to explain it.