MLB 2025 World Series

F Me In The Brain

igotid88 said:

It's not okay to bring up the injury but it is okay make people assume he just lost his hr power out of nowhere? 
It's like a runner who's winning halfway through the race then brakes his leg and then you say he sucked at the end.

Actually I wouldn't say he sucks, but I'd say he didn't qualify....he lost....he didn't finish.
I'm a runner, and I've had to drag my ass across a 26.2 marathon and 50k ultra.   Torn tendon and then a stress fracture.  It sucks, but I finished.
Poor analogy. 
I don't think Donald sucks.  
Far from sucking.

He isn't in the same category as SK, widely held as an all time great.  

cutz

pjhawks said:

Is Albert Belle not in the Hall of Fame because he was a dick?  I think he should be in for sure.

igotid88 said:

You could make a case for Albert Belle. Whether he was juicing or not. I don't know. 

Albert Belle had 9-10 dominate Seasons

I think he should be in the HOF(career: .295 Hitter. averaged 40 HR & 130 RBI's a Season. OPS+ 144)

Poncier

igotid88 said:

The Juggler said:

We're comparing Mattingly to Sandy Koufax now?

Koufax had 6 good to great years.   

You're (I assume) intentionally being obtuse here.
Koufax had maybe the greatest 4 year stretch of any pitcher ever from 63-66. In Modern Times only Pedro Martinez comes close 
Those were not "good to great years". those were historically dominant years.

igotid88

F Me In The Brain said:

igotid88 said:

It's not okay to bring up the injury but it is okay make people assume he just lost his hr power out of nowhere? 
It's like a runner who's winning halfway through the race then brakes his leg and then you say he sucked at the end.

Actually I wouldn't say he sucks, but I'd say he didn't qualify....he lost....he didn't finish.
I'm a runner, and I've had to drag my ass across a 26.2 marathon and 50k ultra.   Torn tendon and then a stress fracture.  It sucks, but I finished.
Poor analogy. 
I don't think Donald sucks.  
Far from sucking.

He isn't in the same category as SK, widely held as an all time great.  

Yes. But if you had been watching him the first 6 years you wouldn't think Hall of Famer. He was a totally different pitcher after. If that happened now people would accuse him doing something illegally. But according to you if he had started off strong and ended up average he wouldn't be in. Because he doesn't have the milestone numbers. Well maybe because his teams won World Series he would get in.

So if I got this right. Mattingly doesn't have the milestone numbers players get playing 20+ years to get in. But his numbers are borderline and would only get in if he won a World Series. But only if he physically won them by himself. While cutting the grass and putting the chalk on the lines. And working the concessions in between innings.

Poncier

Regarding Koufax' 5 year stretch from 62-66:

a pitcher who went 111-34 with a 1.95 ERA, won the NL ERA crown all five years and had seasons of 25-5, 26-8 and 27-9. He won an MVP Award and finished second in the voting two other years, while winning three Cy Young Awards (when they gave it to just one pitcher in all of baseball)

Mattingly never had hitting dominance like that for a 5 year stretch. Not even close.

igotid88

Poncier said:

Regarding Koufax' 5 year stretch from 62-66:

a pitcher who went 111-34 with a 1.95 ERA, won the NL ERA crown all five years and had seasons of 25-5, 26-8 and 27-9. He won an MVP Award and finished second in the voting two other years, while winning three Cy Young Awards (when they gave it to just one pitcher in all of baseball)

Mattingly never had hitting dominance like that for a 5 year stretch. Not even close.

They basically have the same WAR. And to correct what I said earlier. Mattingly played with a bad back the final 9 seasons. He was on pace for 5 straight 200 hit seasons (3 straight) had an OPS over .900 for 4 straight. 3 straight 30+ hr seasons before the injury. But we can't bring up the injury. And you can't say he wouldn't have been dominant because he was still a good hitter. Koufax also had the benefit of a higher pitcher's mound. 

F Me In The Brain

igotid88 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

igotid88 said:

It's not okay to bring up the injury but it is okay make people assume he just lost his hr power out of nowhere? 
It's like a runner who's winning halfway through the race then brakes his leg and then you say he sucked at the end.

Actually I wouldn't say he sucks, but I'd say he didn't qualify....he lost....he didn't finish.
I'm a runner, and I've had to drag my ass across a 26.2 marathon and 50k ultra.   Torn tendon and then a stress fracture.  It sucks, but I finished.
Poor analogy. 
I don't think Donald sucks.  
Far from sucking.

He isn't in the same category as SK, widely held as an all time great.  

Yes. But if you had been watching him the first 6 years you wouldn't think Hall of Famer. He was a totally different pitcher after. If that happened now people would accuse him doing something illegally. But according to you if he had started off strong and ended up average he wouldn't be in. Because he doesn't have the milestone numbers. Well maybe because his teams won World Series he would get in.

So if I got this right. Mattingly doesn't have the milestone numbers players get playing 20+ years to get in. But his numbers are borderline and would only get in if he won a World Series. But only if he physically won them by himself. While cutting the grass and putting the chalk on the lines. And working the concessions in between innings.

We can only disagree if this is the argument, re:Koufax.  Mattingly never had any stretch where he was remotely comparable to how great SK was, in my opinion.

  Kirby played the same number of games, roughly, as Donnie.  They are similar in different numbers, but I still give it to the chunky drunk guy.

tbergs

This thread ia hilarious.

Belle was an asshole. Should have stuck with Joey instead. Much "Friendlier" name. Who doesn't know an asshole named Albert. Video game stats and clear juicer in the 90's. I think he got caught with a corked bat a few times too. I vaguely remember him losing it against the Chi Sox for that.

Also, Puckett was a good player who came through in the clutch. His early years he was a skinny speedster. Somehow kept the hops in the field even though he doubled in size. Always had a solid bat and glove. He gets at least 50% of the credit for the '91 WS. The other half goes to Jack Morris. Another good player who was clutch when you needed him.

Wobbie

was jeff kent better than mattingly? without taking a deep dive to actually look up numbers, I think he was.

tempo_n_groove

Wobbie said:

was jeff kent better than mattingly? without taking a deep dive to actually look up numbers, I think he was.

I always thought Kents numbers were borderline HOF.  He was good.  He also fought Bonds in the dugout!

igotid88

Wobbie said:

was jeff kent better than mattingly? without taking a deep dive to actually look up numbers, I think he was.

Kent was a good player. More of an accumulator. He did have an MVP which could have gone to Bonds. I forgot about that. 

F Me In The Brain

Yes, I would think so.  In fairness he is strongly helped by two things.
1.  There are far fewer great 2B than great 1B.
2.  He has one of the funniest Middle names in all of sports.  (Icansmellyour)  

igotid88

Kent has better numbers than Trammell who got in a year or 2 ago. Although Trammell has a better WAR which makes no sense 

The Juggler

Okay....serious question, folks. If you were the GM of a make believe all time team and had your choice of just these two players to draft first overall, who would you select?


Don Mattingly


or




















Willie Mays?

igotid88

The Juggler said:

Okay....serious question, folks. If you were the GM of a make believe all time team and had your choice of just these two players to draft first overall, who would you select?


Don Mattingly


or




















Willie Mays?

Centerfielders always get preferred over first basemen. Even if Mattingly would have had the better overall numbers.

tempo_n_groove

F Me In The Brain said:

Yes, I would think so.  In fairness he is strongly helped by two things.
1.  There are far fewer great 2B than great 1B.
2.  He has one of the funniest Middle names in all of sports.  (Icansmellyour)  

Franklin?  Thats funny or I just don't get the joke...

tempo_n_groove

The Juggler said:

Okay....serious question, folks. If you were the GM of a make believe all time team and had your choice of just these two players to draft first overall, who would you select?


Don Mattingly


or




















Willie Mays?

At least do the same position... And of players who were hurt and should have better numbers...And whom are beloved by the Yankees...

The Juggler

igotid88 said:

The Juggler said:

Okay....serious question, folks. If you were the GM of a make believe all time team and had your choice of just these two players to draft first overall, who would you select?


Don Mattingly


or




















Willie Mays?

Centerfielders always get preferred over first basemen. Even if Mattingly would have had the better overall numbers.

I don't know, I think I would still go Mattingly. This is hypothetical, of course. 

F Me In The Brain

tempo_n_groove said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yes, I would think so.  In fairness he is strongly helped by two things.
1.  There are far fewer great 2B than great 1B.
2.  He has one of the funniest Middle names in all of sports.  (Icansmellyour)  

Franklin?  Thats funny or I just don't get the joke...



Yeah, I don't think you got it.
I forget who called him that name but it always makes me laugh.
Jeff Icansmellyour Kent.

Said in a breathless Clarice Starling voice.
 

F Me In The Brain

The Juggler said:

igotid88 said:

The Juggler said:

Okay....serious question, folks. If you were the GM of a make believe all time team and had your choice of just these two players to draft first overall, who would you select?


Don Mattingly


or




















Willie Mays?

Centerfielders always get preferred over first basemen. Even if Mattingly would have had the better overall numbers.

I don't know, I think I would still go Mattingly. This is hypothetical, of course. 

Mattingly by a mile.
Bill Brasky would have him, though.