Fearmongers' were right about Obamacare

WaveCameCrashin

I know everybody is probably sick of this but I Just thought I would share this article with people that think the new healthcare bill is so wonderful.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/heal ... rance.html

The ink was barely dry on President Barack Obama's signature before the RAND Corp. released a report concluding that, not only would the hard-won health care package fail to curb health insurance premium increases, but the bill itself would drive premiums for young people up as much as 17 percent.
This should not have been a surprise: the Congressional Budget Office had already warned that the plan would do almost nothing to reduce premium hikes. And when New York implemented the same type of insurance reforms in the 1980s, it led to an increase of nearly $500 per year for young people. But somehow, the media didn't pay much attention.

And, of course, during the health care debate, no presidential speech was complete without a promise that "if you have health insurance today, and you like it, you can keep it." But the Congressional Budget Office now says that as many as 10 million workers will lose their current insurance under Obamacare. Some of those workers will have to buy new insurance through the government-run exchanges. Millions more will be thrown onto Medicaid.
In addition, the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Studies reports that half of seniors currently enrolled in the Medicare Advantage program will lose their coverage under that program and be forced back onto traditional Medicare.
And how many times did President Obama criticize the United States for having the highest health care spending in the world? Well, late last month the government's chief actuary released his report on the bill, showing that the bill will actually increase health care spending by $311 billion over 10 years.
At the same time, the report warned that promised future spending cuts, particularly those for Medicare, are unlikely to occur. "The longer-term viability of the Medicare reductions is doubtful," wrote Richard Foster, chief actuary of the Medicare and Medicaid systems. What cuts do occur could have a severe impact on the quality of health care. As many as 15 percent of hospitals and other institutions could be forced out of business, according to the report, "possibly jeopardizing access to care" for millions of Americans.
With spending going up, and future savings likely to fall short of promises, we can expect higher deficits and, of course, higher taxes. The most recent estimates suggest that the taxes already in the bill will likely end up costing middle-class workers and small businesses an extra $1,000 per year.
Now the most recent report from the Congressional Budget Office warns that nearly 4 million Americans, nearly three-quarters of them middle-class workers, will be hit with fines for failing to meet the government's mandateto buy insurance. Those penalties will average nearly $1,000 per person in 2016.
All this, and the health care "reform" law is merely a month old.
Perhaps this is why nearly 56 percent of American voters now favor repealing the bill.
This episode provides a lesson, not just for health care reform, but more generally for the Obama administration's policies. When critics of the health care bill raised these concerns during the debate, they were accused of "fear-mongering." It was said that they were "opposed to reform," or were in the pockets of the insurance industry.
Now, as the administration presses forward with its other initiatives, including financial regulation and, possibly, "cap-and-trade" energy taxes, the same modus operandi is in action. Those who raise questions are derided as opposing "reform" and siding with the banks, energy companies or whoever the enemy of the day is. The bills need to be rushed through. There is no time for real debate.
But maybe, just maybe, the first month of Obamacare should serve as a lesson: Legislate in haste; repent in leisure.






and then there's this clip. I would really like to get some feed back on this. http://www.breitbart.tv/obamas-budget-d ... re-levels/

inmytree

I love the Cato Institute...

OutOfBreath

Shocking. A right-wing tank not waiting one second to attack this... My my what a surprise.

Seriously though, until you get real and implement a real socialized system to benefit all the people, you're not gonna make any real saving. "Obamacare" was the watered down shit that managed to sneak it's way past enough senators with enough back-scratchings along the way so that some of them could look good to rep voters.

Peace
Dan

michelleelise

Not an article, an opinion piece. BIG difference.

Cosmo

Wait... your greatest fear is having to pay 500 bucks a year for Health Care coverage? That is what you are most afraid of?

WaveCameCrashin

michelle822 wrote:

Not an article, an opinion piece. BIG difference.

Whatever, its still true. Obama lied to us and a lot of people bought into it and still believe that the bill is going to bring down the cost of premiums when in fact it's not. People are going to be forced into medicaid and medicare and people are going to be forced to buy healthcare.
Also all of you thought there weren't going to be any boards set up that had to do with rationing healthcare to seniors. well guess what there it is.http://www.breitbart.tv/obamas-budget-d ... re-levels/

Shawshank

It should be no surprise that this is going to be a windfall for the insurance companies.

OnTheEdge

I'm afraid we haven't seen the tip of the ice berg on this one yet. I think Obama will be long out of office by the time the real shit hits the fan that way it will come down on someone else....probably a republican

WaveCameCrashin

Cosmo wrote:

Wait... your greatest fear is having to pay 500 bucks a year for Health Care coverage? That is what you are most afraid of?

huh?? Cosmo, that was in the 80's...


But the Congressional Budget Office now says that as many as 10 million workers will lose their current insurance under Obamacare. Some of those workers will have to buy new insurance through the government-run exchanges. Millions more will be thrown onto Medicaid

here's another link.. I know I know it's coming from the right so it must be a lie. :roll: Do your research folks. The only lies that i see are the ones this administration has been telling us and THe msm on the left hasn't been giving you the truth either.http://healthcare.nationalreview.com/po ... Y4ZjliNDc=

Pepe Silvia

prfctlefts wrote:

michelle822 wrote:

Not an article, an opinion piece. BIG difference.

Whatever, its still true. Obama lied to us and a lot of people bought into it and still believe that the bill is going to bring down the cost of premiums when in fact it's not. People are going to be forced into medicaid and medicare and people are going to be forced to buy healthcare.
Also all of you thought there weren't going to be any boards set up that had to do with rationing healthcare to seniors. well guess what there it is.http://www.breitbart.tv/obamas-budget-d ... re-levels/

obama didn't write the bill, the legislative branch did, obama just signed it.

Boxes&Books

prfctlefts,

i rather not jump into this debate, but I must ask are you satisfied with the current health care system? Do you believe it is the best system America can produce? If you are not happy with it, what would you do different?
Do you feel Obama has no clue as to what he is doing?

thanks,

WaveCameCrashin

tonifig8 wrote:

prfctlefts,

i rather not jump into this debate, but I must ask are you satisfied with the current health care system? Do you believe it is the best system America can produce? If you are not happy with it, what would you do different?
Do you feel Obama has no clue as to what he is doing?

thanks,

No Im not happy with the current system. I just believe that this bill is not the way to go about doing it. No I don't believe that this is the best system america can produce. What I would like to see done different is give people more choices.ie let people buy across state lines like you can with auto ins.
here are some others that I agree with. and No I don't think Obama is doing a good job. I think he is way out of his league when it comes to running this country. I have never seen a president belittle and put down his own countries citizens like he does. But I guess that's what someone does that think's and acts a dictator.

I agree with this... from Edwin Feulner, Ph.D.
Specifically, a plan that would reform health care will need to:

Give families control of their health care: We need to let families—not the government—control decisions so they can choose the coverage they want. For this to happen private health insurance needs to be portable—that is, owned by Americans so they can take their package from job to job. The health care system we have today was conceived in the era of World War II, when many Americans worked for the same company all their lives. As we know, that is not the case today. The President has acknowledged this. But we do not need a public plan, or mandates on businesses, to have portability. We need changes in rules and the removal of tax penalties to allow families real choice and ownership.
Reform the tax system: For portability to become reality, we need to reform the tax system. Right now, families can get a tax break for their insurance only if they hand over control of their insurance to their boss, and leave their plan behind if they change jobs. That needs to change. We need to provide the same tax relief to families wherever they choose to get their plan. In that world of empowered families, plans would have to compete to satisfy them, not compete to cut costs for employers.
Bring on competition: Americans will get quality health care only with the mechanism that has given us quality in all other aspects of life: competition. The way to get quality care in America is to have insurers compete to satisfy families in an insurance market, one that provides transparent information, ease of delivery and quick results, and which is fair to families and their doctors. Members of Congress pick and choose plans in such a market. The rest of America should also have that right.
Recognize that states know better than Washington: The challenges of organizing and delivering health care vary greatly across the nation. Rural Mississippi is not the same as Midtown Manhattan. States have always been smarter than Washington at figuring out how to get the job done. To the extent that government must play a role, the states should take the lead in devising the best way to reach our national goals. The last thing we need is one-size-fits-all health care. Congress needs to let states find the best way to achieve value for money in widening coverage while bringing down costs.
A reckless, expensive and one-sided rush toward “reform” would not only be damaging to our public discourse, but it could fundamentally change our society in ways that have far-reaching consequences.

Rather than bringing in the failed central-planning approach to health care, with the government controlling who gets what, let’s ensure access to affordable health care for all Americans. Let’s use the tried and tested approach of the empowered consumer in a truly competitive market.

These are some of our remedies to our nation’s health care system. There are other free market ideas that also warrant consideration. We call on the President and Congress to widen the conversation. Let the debate truly begin.

michelleelise

prfctlefts wrote:

Whatever, its still true.

Well, I work for a newspaper so maybe I'm more sensitive about this stuff But I get pissed at people misrepresenting blogs and opinion pieces as newspaper articles which implies a level of fact-checking. And no it's not all true, half of it is this guys' opinion and obvious disdain for Obama so I dismissed it out of hand. I'm sure you'd do the same if I linked you to a Huff Post opinion article.

michelleelise

prfctlefts wrote:

These are some of our remedies to our nation’s health care system. There are other free market ideas that also warrant consideration. We call on the President and Congress to widen the conversation. Let the debate truly begin.

The President wanted a bi-partisan bill so badly that insisted on trying to work with Republicans on health care for a long time even though they kept raising the bar higher and higher on any compromise - and eventually refused to compromise at all because they arrogantly thought the Dems couldn't get the bill through.

The quote above about calling on the Pres and Congress to widen the conversation and "let the debate truly begin" is laughable considering how many opportunities they had.

Boxes&Books

prfctlefts wrote:

tonifig8 wrote:

prfctlefts,

i rather not jump into this debate, but I must ask are you satisfied with the current health care system? Do you believe it is the best system America can produce? If you are not happy with it, what would you do different?
Do you feel Obama has no clue as to what he is doing?

thanks,

No Im not happy with the current system. I just believe that this bill is not the way to go about doing it. No I don't believe that this is the best system america can produce. What I would like to see done different is give people more choices.ie let people buy across state lines like you can with auto ins.
here are some others that I agree with. and No I don't think Obama is doing a good job. I think he is way out of his league when it comes to running this country. I have never seen a president belittle and put down his own countries citizens like he does. But I guess that's what someone does that think's and acts a dictator.

It's interesting how we have completely different views. I wont get into it, but I do disagree with you on just about everything you have stated in your post.
I would love to get into it, but I don't think anything will change- so what's the point.

peace

Cosmo

prfctlefts wrote:

But the Congressional Budget Office now says that as many as 10 million workers will lose their current insurance under Obamacare. Some of those workers will have to buy new insurance through the government-run exchanges. Millions more will be thrown onto Medicaid

here's another link.. I know I know it's coming from the right so it must be a lie. :roll: Do your research folks. The only lies that i see are the ones this administration has been telling us and THe msm on the left hasn't been giving you the truth either.http://healthcare.nationalreview.com/po ... Y4ZjliNDc=

...
You used the correct term in your title, 'Fearmongers'. Because that is what is being broadcast, Fear.
On this point: "But the Congressional Budget Office now says that as many as 10 million workers will lose their current insurance under Obamacare. Some of those workers will have to buy new insurance through the government-run exchanges. Millions more will be thrown onto Medicaid."
How are these people going "lose" their current health care coverage? Companies stop offering coverage? Aren't they spending money to cover you right now?
And the thing about doctors quitting their practices... to do what? Work at the Home Depot? Do you really believe a doctor is willing to end his practice and the money he is making to lay asphalt or install water heaters?
...
Do yourself a favor, instead of reading a biased interpretation of a memo... read the memo itself.
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM130_o ... acted.html

Now... where in the memo does it talk about the 10 million currently covered Americans losing their coverage?

Pepe Silvia

michelle822 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

These are some of our remedies to our nation’s health care system. There are other free market ideas that also warrant consideration. We call on the President and Congress to widen the conversation. Let the debate truly begin.

The President wanted a bi-partisan bill so badly that insisted on trying to work with Republicans on health care for a long time even though they kept raising the bar higher and higher on any compromise - and eventually refused to compromise at all because they arrogantly thought the Dems couldn't get the bill through.

The quote above about calling on the Pres and Congress to widen the conversation and "let the debate truly begin" is laughable considering how many opportunities they had.

i know, it's not as if they didn't have any chance to say anything in the more than a year it took to get passed, hell, he even had that televised thing before it passed.

OnTheEdge

tonifig8 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

tonifig8 wrote:

prfctlefts,

i rather not jump into this debate, but I must ask are you satisfied with the current health care system? Do you believe it is the best system America can produce? If you are not happy with it, what would you do different?
Do you feel Obama has no clue as to what he is doing?

thanks,

No Im not happy with the current system. I just believe that this bill is not the way to go about doing it. No I don't believe that this is the best system america can produce. What I would like to see done different is give people more choices.ie let people buy across state lines like you can with auto ins.
here are some others that I agree with. and No I don't think Obama is doing a good job. I think he is way out of his league when it comes to running this country. I have never seen a president belittle and put down his own countries citizens like he does. But I guess that's what someone does that think's and acts a dictator.

It's interesting how we have completely different views. I wont get into it, but I do disagree with you on just about everything you have stated in your post.
I would love to get into it, but I don't think anything will change- so what's the point.

peace

Eddie would hate to read this last response.

_

prfctlefts wrote:

msm

This cracks me up every time you say it. In my world, MSM stands for Men who have Sex with Men.

cajunkiwi

prfctlefts wrote:

I don't think Obama is doing a good job. I think he is way out of his league when it comes to running this country. I have never seen a president belittle and put down his own countries citizens like he does. But I guess that's what someone does that think's and acts a dictator.

You mean like when he said:

"'See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.''

or...

''I'm the commander — see, I don't need to explain — I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president.''

or...

''If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.''

or...

''You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you need to concentrate on.''

Oh no, wait, that was the guy he replaced.


Also, and this is totally my foreign-ness coming through, but what is the obsession with state's rights? Rural Mississippi is different from midtown Manhattan. Yes, but in both cases, when a person is sick they'll need to visit a doctor. It's not like someone from Starkville, Miss., needs a specialized insurance plan to let them visit a bovine specialist if they break a leg. There's no reason why insurance should be different from state to state. The same goes for education - a school in Oregon should be teaching the same things a school in Louisiana is teaching. It's not like 2+2 magically equals 5 when you cross the Rockies. It seems to me as if state's rights is often more trouble than it's worth. It's frustrating as hell to live in a state where the education system is horrible, and people object to raising the standards because "People don't understand what it's like in Louisiana," as if somehow the fact that you're in Louisiana makes it justifiable to have crappy schools.

Mississippi ranks dead last in health care; has the highest rate of obesity, high blood pressure, and diabetes in the US; has the lowest per-capita income of any of the 50 states; and ranks dead last in academic achievement. Clearly, running the show themselves isn't working too well for Mississippi.

Perhaps it would help if every one of the 50 states had to meet the same standards. I know if I was from Manhattan and I fell ill in Mississippi and needed to use a hospital, I'd feel a lot better knowing my insurance would cover it and the hospital would be of a certain quality. At the same time if I was from Oregon I'd like to know that if I ever moved to Louisiana then my 8th grade-level kids wouldn't suddenly be learning things they were taught in the 6th grade.

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

michelle822 wrote:

Not an article, an opinion piece. BIG difference.

Whatever, its still true. Obama lied to us and a lot of people bought into it and still believe that the bill is going to bring down the cost of premiums when in fact it's not. People are going to be forced into medicaid and medicare and people are going to be forced to buy healthcare.
Also all of you thought there weren't going to be any boards set up that had to do with rationing healthcare to seniors. well guess what there it is.http://www.breitbart.tv/obamas-budget-d ... re-levels/

i would be "forced" into medicare. that pays for everything and its paid for by the government, aside from the copays which are less than for private insurance companies and it denies nothing and it can not drop you. its the most secure insurance there is.