New Law in AZ (AR) and Our Reasoning
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This will be my final Thread on the subject - I am really only looking to get an informative response, with some real substance by godfather, unsung, aerial, and mikepegg44....... Considering they are the best of the best on the subject.......no disrespect to those other names i didn't mention...
The bill was recently edited because AZ (AR) law makers discovered that the whole racial profiling might have been a little over the top, which according to you guys didn't exist in the bill.
Here is a link from the O Reilly show, which helps to support my position of why this bill is no good.
Now according to Bill O Reilly this bill was created to simply (well maybe not only for that purpose) create attention to the illegal immigration problem in AZ. I would really like to know your thoughts on this video - Your knowledge Vs. that of someone who deals with this issue daily. Vs. someone who is well informed on the issue (not to say that you are not).
I don't come to the board to score points........I really want to find a solution, but this bill is getting in the way of our progress (our= specifically us on the board, but general society too).
Again I am not against the federal government deporting illegal immigrants on a daily bases- You and I see eye to eye on that issue. I have rejected this bill from the beginning and I was hoping to find people who can support that position, and help me spread the truth on the bill.
But you guys have been strong advocates of the bill, based on your wealth of knowledge and reasoning- and have stood in the way of progress/common sense-
Can you continue to support this bill, if yes why? Or will you say maybe there is a better approach?
A response is much appreciated, to me and I am sure to others on the board.
thanks,
http://origin-drupal.foxnews.com/on-air ... t_id=87253
p.s
this is only one side of the debate- the whole race issue and just about everything else we have debated still lingers....
The bill was recently edited because AZ (AR) law makers discovered that the whole racial profiling might have been a little over the top, which according to you guys didn't exist in the bill.
Here is a link from the O Reilly show, which helps to support my position of why this bill is no good.
Now according to Bill O Reilly this bill was created to simply (well maybe not only for that purpose) create attention to the illegal immigration problem in AZ. I would really like to know your thoughts on this video - Your knowledge Vs. that of someone who deals with this issue daily. Vs. someone who is well informed on the issue (not to say that you are not).
I don't come to the board to score points........I really want to find a solution, but this bill is getting in the way of our progress (our= specifically us on the board, but general society too).
Again I am not against the federal government deporting illegal immigrants on a daily bases- You and I see eye to eye on that issue. I have rejected this bill from the beginning and I was hoping to find people who can support that position, and help me spread the truth on the bill.
But you guys have been strong advocates of the bill, based on your wealth of knowledge and reasoning- and have stood in the way of progress/common sense-
Can you continue to support this bill, if yes why? Or will you say maybe there is a better approach?
A response is much appreciated, to me and I am sure to others on the board.
thanks,
http://origin-drupal.foxnews.com/on-air ... t_id=87253
p.s
this is only one side of the debate- the whole race issue and just about everything else we have debated still lingers....
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I was just thinking of starting an abortion thread!
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You mean here or in my abortion thread? 'Cuz new abortion data just came out today!
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
You are correct --- I guess they finally realized that it was simply racial profiling..... Let's tune in and see what else gets changed.....
I am sure so many of you guys will continue to support this bill, no matter what! That my friend, I do not understand.... The law makers finally realized it, why can't everyone else? :? :? :? :?
very confusing if you ask me.
Mike,
Like i said earlier - I wasn't trying to be sarcastic (my apologizes) - But I was hoping you and the rest of the people supporting this bill would come back at me with some facts as to why this bill is good. Not just your suggestion that the bill will be shot down by the feds.... Because that isn't my point and doesn't make this whole thing ok, bases on that (feds will shoot it down).... My point is all the hate associated with the bill and the lack of common sense in this bill, yet none of you guys are willing to simply denounce it.
My intent was to provide yet another reason why this bill is no good- directly from the source, directly to the point, directly to the brain (common sense).......
I, personally, believe in a woman's right to choose whether or not she wants a new thread.
I watched the video, and what I got out of it was that he was saying the justice system cannot handle the increase there will be. So, because law enforcement might be overwhelmed we should stop enforcing the laws? It seems that is the thinking that got us into the trouble to begin with. People always talk about the jobs these people do, what about the companies and contractors who don't pay them a decent wage, and some don't pay them at all? Immigration reform is necessary and this is Arizona's way of yelling for help. You heard what bill said about the tuscon(?) area, it was bankrupt. the county is bankrupt and cannot handle the large amounts of people that are on the streets, both citizen and none citizen. I was actually watching this when it aired and thought about you. Is there a areason you didnt also post the discussion with juan williams from earlier, I will try and find it for you. I just don't see the hate you do. Sorry, just as I am sure you don't see other laws the same way I do.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Hmmmm sounds pretty condescending to me. But i guess I just didn't get what you meant
and if you really want to get into it, show me the quote where I said i was for this bill. Please, I was for the rights of the state of arizona to pass this law, I was really against all the lies that were being spread about it by the MSM(giggle away SCB) and the administration. That is all, they changed the wording in the bill to appease political pressures, nothing more. And more so to defend the police officers who were being likened to fucking nazis. So please, again show me where I said I was for the bill. Because quite frankly, I don't remember ever saying that.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I am for a women's right to choose. I also think everyone on the website should write in both english and spanish.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
both of these comments made me smile.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Thanks!!
Hey! Have you ever noticed that s/he
cough cough puke
As the bill is written what group is its' intended target? I don't want your interpretation of it, I want to know the law.
And as for your "cough cough puke" comment, lighten up francis.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I think the bill targets undocumented immigrants AT THE EXPENSE OF other people of color who are here legally.
What's your point, exactly? That a law that harms a minority population is ok as long as that wasn't its primary intention?
Let me ask you this: Back when the US goverment decided to put hundreds of uranium mines on the Navajo reservation & hire Navajos without telling them that research had already shown that uranium causes cancer, was that okay since the purpose was not to harm Navajos? And, even though they chose a marginalized population to exploit, did this have nothing to do with viewing this group as inferior?
Okay, I'll try and answer this question for the benefit of all of you who hate human rights (but love sweeping generalizations):
Plug in your common sense neurons and let them charge up for a while. Let them get warm. Now unleash some common sense and see where it goes.
The law is being passed in a state that shares a border with Mexico. Some people think the sky is falling and America is falling apart at the seams because 11 million Mexicans have entered the country illegally (by the way - where did that number come from? Are the minutemen just sitting around counting all day?). Americans aren't complaining loudly about the people from Europe and Canada who are in the country illegally - they're complaining about Mexicans. You know, the guys who don't look like they're from Utah.
Now... someone proposes a bill that, in its original form, was going to legalize racial profiling. No races were named in the bill, because to name a race specifically would be to hand the ACLU a successful lawsuit on a silver platter.
But what was the directive in the bill? Pull over people who look like they're in the country illegally. Where was the bill proposed? In a state that borders Mexico. Which nationality is the one being targeted by anti-illegal immigration activists nationwide? Mexicans. If your common sense neurons work at all, you'd know the police weren't going to be on the lookout for people speaking French or German.
Just because Mexicans aren't named in the bill - because, again, to do so would see the state get sued into the Stone Age - doesn't mean it wasn't aimed at them. If you're asking the cops to pull over and question people who "look" foreign, then I have to ask: is it easier to spot someone who looks Mexican, or someone who looks Canadian?
But then again, common sense is in short supply around these parts these days. This is a country where the president is branded a Socialist, Marxist, and Communist by people who don't know the first thing about Socialism, Marxism, or Communism beyond the fact that they have something to do with Russia. This is a country where the president is called a tyrant for exercising his rights as a president by people who remained silent when his predecessor passed a law that gave the police the right to monitor its citizen's phone calls and emails. As Jon Stewart put it, "You're confusing tyranny with losing."
So, I have a question for you - you who, in scb's thread about whether or not society was regressing said the problem was people being too PC and not taking responsibility for their own actions (the latter of which I wholeheartedly agree with, by the way: if people were a little more responsible for their own actions a few more problems might be solved). My question is - when you picture an illegal immigrant in your head, physically speaking, what do you see? What does an illegal immigrant "look like" to you?
That is a smokescreen for the truth. The fact remains it is to rid this country of people who chose to break our laws as their very first act of arriving here.
I don't know what they look like, could really be anyone. By that logic should we just allow them to be free and march on our streets demanding we change our laws to suit them? If asking for an ID is the only way to make the determination then that is what needs to be done.
upon reading this bill i think the intended target is mail order brides from russia...yep, that's it...and arizona bordering mexico has nothing to do with it...........
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Obama doesn't do Shit! They should deport him for not being born in the United States.... right Unsung!
Seems like Obama had a better season then Bush.......
I like what the President said yesterday about immigration reform. His comment seems down the middle.... Now he'll need a little support from the elitist....and maybe something good could be accomplished....
You are solely blaming the people, yet completely ignore all of the unenforced laws and illegal activities business and the government do or do not do which not only escalate this problem, but enable it.
And regarding the ID topic, I think there is more of an outcry from citizens about big brother and infringement compared to illegals not doing such.
In order to really resolve this issue, there has to be an across the board effort by all parties involved to make immigration reform not only secure and possible, but to be beneficial to all involved. There's repercussions to every aspect of this issue no matter how you cut and dice it, so to give a black and white - good/bad on solely one isn't practical in any manner to a long term solution for anyone involved.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
That's true - the purpose of the bill is to deport people who are in the country illegally. However, the problem is with the way the bill was written. It not only gave the police the authority to pull over someone who looked foreign (and was guilty of nothing more than looking foreign), but it also gave the public the right to sue the police if they weren't doing a good enough job - which, in turn, could well lead to an increase in racial profiling incidents (because the cops would rather pull over Mexicans than get sued).
There were no guidelines given to the police about who they should/shouldn't pull over, beyond "anyone they suspect is in the country illegally" - which is a pretty big gray area. If you're a cop in Arizona and you saw a white person walking down the street, would you think, "Man, that dude could be an illegal immigrant from Canada, maybe I should pull him over and check."? Or would you be more likely to see a Hispanic-looking person walking down the street and think, "Man, I keep hearing that there are 11 million Mexicans in this country illegally, maybe I should pull this guy over and check."?
The overwhelming majority of the Hispanic-looking people would be U.S. citizens, residents, or tourists - in other words, people in Arizona legally. However, the cops have now wasted their time (and took a dump on their human rights) by suspecting/accusing them of being illegal immigrants. Not only that, but if you've ever dealt with cops before, you'll know that they aren't all warm and fuzzy people - and not only are they less warm and fuzzy than usual when dealing with minorities, but would be even LESS warm and fuzzy than usual with the threat of a lawsuit hanging over their heads if they didn't deport enough illegal aliens.
You gonna answer my questions, unsung?