I disagree - we're merely part of nature and in nature, all things (everything we know in the universe) has a life cycle. Just as in the animal kingdom, some get eaten in the food chain or the young don't make it through the winter or in the universe, stars burn out in the galaxy, humans are no different... we simply feel because we are human, we therefore apply different morals, standards and designations for when or why we die. I highly doubt anyone would say that in animal kingdom, if an animal died because of the cold, would we say the winter is guilty or even wrong? The animal is no more a "victim" than mere genetics in this case. We simply designate such things in a different manner solely because we feel that we as humans are more important, significant, entitled or even the center of being, so our views represent it as such. That's why people say things like "victim" and it's mere self-fulfilling delusion based on self-importance and purpose/meaning in life.
No such thing as "victim" in life. Everyone is born guilty. Victim is just a made up negative term by humans to make life sound special and grand - ie, pat ourselves on the back, because...we're human. We all are born and all will die.. it's nature.
oh thats just horseshit. we are all born innocent. its on the journey to death that we are corrupted if thats the case.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I disagree - we're merely part of nature and in nature, all things (everything we know in the universe) has a life cycle. Just as in the animal kingdom, some get eaten in the food chain or the young don't make it through the winter or in the universe, stars burn out in the galaxy, humans are no different... we simply feel because we are human, we therefore apply different morals, standards and designations for when or why we die. I highly doubt anyone would say that in animal kingdom, if an animal died because of the cold, would we say the winter is guilty or even wrong? The animal is no more a "victim" than mere genetics in this case. We simply designate such things in a different manner solely because we feel that we as humans are more important, significant, entitled or even the center of being, so our views represent it as such. That's why people say things like "victim" and it's mere self-fulfilling delusion based on self-importance and purpose/meaning in life.
No such thing as "victim" in life. Everyone is born guilty. Victim is just a made up negative term by humans to make life sound special and grand - ie, pat ourselves on the back, because...we're human. We all are born and all will die.. it's nature.
oh thats just horseshit. we are all born innocent. its on the journey to death that we are corrupted if thats the case.
how does being born equate to being guilty??? thats my beef with you. guilty about what exactly??
Post edited by catefrances on
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Being born means you are merely part of the life cycle. You are born and will die - that's it. Being born does not equate to any fashion to "innocent" of anything. When you're born all it means is that you will die - no matter how, whether by natural causes or some other method. We as human don't like to acknowledge this fact, so instead we find ways to embellish it - things like the sanctity of life. The notion that life and people are sacred..completely made up by humans - why? Because we want to project that idea, because we're human and living. So terms like victim or bystander are merely human applied words to attempt to rationalize our being, status on earth and in life. Self-importance to sum it up.
how does being born equate to being guilty??? thats my beef with you. guilty about what exactly??
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Being born means you are merely part of the life cycle. You are born and will die - that's it. Being born does not equate to any fashion to "innocent" of anything. When you're born all it means is that you will die - no matter how, whether by natural causes or some other method. We as human don't like to acknowledge this fact, so instead we find ways to embellish it - things like the sanctity of life. The notion that life and people are sacred..completely made up by humans - why? Because we want to project that idea, because we're human and living. So terms like victim or bystander are merely human applied words to attempt to rationalize our being, status on earth and in life. Self-importance to sum it up.
how does being born equate to being guilty??? thats my beef with you. guilty about what exactly??
you know, you and i are on the same page about most things ive noticed, but there are those times that you throw me for a loop cause i struggle to grasp what youre trying to say.
how does all that equate to us being born guilty. i ask again.. guilty of what??
imo guilt(the feeling one gets, not the law breaking kind, though technically it is also) is a social construct and it is an emotion i do not subscribe to.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Guilty of anything that happens in life - birth to death. The notion that we are entitled or due something in life is made-up, whether it's a social construct as you mentioned, a basic necessity or even a right to not have something horrible happen to us (like a bombing or similar). The only thing we are assured and due once born, is death. That's it. No such thing as innocent. The only thing we are a "victim" of is nature - the process which creates and ends all. Cycle of life and death.
you know, you and i are on the same page about most things ive noticed, but there are those times that you throw me for a loop cause i struggle to grasp what youre trying to say.
how does all that equate to us being born guilty. i ask again.. guilty of what??
imo guilt(the feeling one gets, not the law breaking kind, though technically it is also) is a social construct and it is an emotion i do not subscribe to.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Being born means you are merely part of the life cycle. You are born and will die - that's it. Being born does not equate to any fashion to "innocent" of anything. When you're born all it means is that you will die - no matter how, whether by natural causes or some other method. We as human don't like to acknowledge this fact, so instead we find ways to embellish it - things like the sanctity of life. The notion that life and people are sacred..completely made up by humans - why? Because we want to project that idea, because we're human and living. So terms like victim or bystander are merely human applied words to attempt to rationalize our being, status on earth and in life. Self-importance to sum it up.
how does being born equate to being guilty??? thats my beef with you. guilty about what exactly??
Man you got some real isssues and I think you need to do some real soul searching cos you sound like a very miserable and lonely person to me,but maybe im wrong. Life is very precious and very important IMO and I think most people would agree with that.
Guilty of anything that happens in life - birth to death. The notion that we are entitled or due something in life is made-up, whether it's a social construct as you mentioned, a basic necessity or even a right to not have something horrible happen to us (like a bombing or similar). The only thing we are assured and due once born, is death. That's it. No such thing as innocent. The only thing we are a "victim" of is nature - the process which creates and ends all. Cycle of life and death.
well the only thing im victim to is my own stupidity.
and the only thing im entitled(if thats the right word) to, like everyone else on the planet, is not to be fucked with. they call that respect i believe.
im still not getting your guilty/innocent paradigm. but i do agree with you about mans promotion of his own self importance.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Well in my opinion there's a multitude of issues within this one topic. I do not think there's a black and white solution to the problem because it incorporates so many areas of society. Also many of the solutions are in direct opposition to an outcome which benefits all involved. Part of the problem is Mexico's corruption and economic downturn, NAFTA, drug war violence and other parts include poorly enforced US immigration policy which is coupled by the fact that if it was enforced it directly undermines our economy and several industries. Also, things like US government income also has varying repercussions from immigration policy adjustments as well. You can't just let people continually flood the border, but conversely closing the border hurts our economy in far worse ways. Security is obviously a factor, but that topic results in the national id discussion which people are skeptical of for infringement and other reasons. So do I have a simplistic answer, of course not and anyone who says they do is full of it. We need to address all of these areas if we really want to fix the problem, but if we merely make slight adjustments and band-aid it like we do with most issues, it will just come up in varying forms in the future.
It kinda all goes back to "teach a man to fish".. we don't have policy which is beneficial to not only us, but others. It's how we treat international development of poor nations, foreign policy or similar issues. We prefer things be on our terms, in our way, so we're "in control", even if in fact our way isn't productive or beneficial (this case being an example). If you feel like reading, I wrote this a little over a year ago and it goes more into detail about global economics, the spider-web in which they work and in sum, how they are set up with the idea of incorporation. http://political-illusions.blogspot.com/2009/04/big-picture.html
Man that's pretty funny - I appreciate your psycho-analysis as I'm sure you're so well qualified to do so and know me so well.
Simply because I hold these views as they are doesn't mean I don't hope for good things for myself, others or the world. I think it's more a combination of optimist/pessimist and realist/dreamer... but I guess it's just easier to call people type cast as you've done here in some odd manner.
Also, I'm very big on the idea that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs no matter what they are... not solely those I agree with. And as you state here in bold, I'm very happy you believe that, but I do not. I also think anytime "most people" comments are used, it has zero baring on anything.
Man you got some real isssues and I think you need to do some real soul searching cos you sound like a very miserable and lonely person to me,but maybe im wrong. Life is very precious and very important IMO and I think most people would agree with that.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Have you seen that documentary called Life and Debt? I think you would like it.
Also, I'll throw my $0.02 in to your discussion with cate. I don't think y'all are disagreeing at all; I think you're just not understand one another.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Man that's pretty funny - I appreciate your psycho-analysis as I'm sure you're so well qualified to do so and know me so well.
Simply because I hold these views as they are doesn't mean I don't hope for good things for myself, others or the world. I think it's more a combination of optimist/pessimist and realist/dreamer... but I guess it's just easier to call people type cast as you've done here in some odd manner.
Also, I'm very big on the idea that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs no matter what they are... not solely those I agree with. And as you state here in bold, I'm very happy you believe that, but I do not. I also think anytime "most people" comments are used, it has zero baring on anything.
Man you got some real isssues and I think you need to do some real soul searching cos you sound like a very miserable and lonely person to me,but maybe im wrong. Life is very precious and very important IMO and I think most people would agree with that.
Whatever... I meant no disrespect. From some your other post you sound like you don't like people or have much faith in society itself. But that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But for someone who says that
I'm very big on the idea that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs no matter what they are... not solely those I agree with. /quote] You sure are quik to jump on me when you feeel it's necessary or you dissagree with me though.
...
Also, I'll throw my $0.02 in to your discussion with cate. I don't think y'all are disagreeing at all; I think you're just not understand one another.
Whether a joke or sarcastic remark about the race of the attempted bomber, it was implied... so either it was a muslim fundamentalist or some nutty white guy. Either way, people should realize that nuts come in all shapes and forms.
No disrespect? You said I have real issues, need soul searching and sound miserable and lonely? Where exactly is there a mis-interpretation? That's pretty disrespectful especially cause you base it merely off of disagreeing with my opinion and nothing more.
Also, where exactly does it say that a person needs to like the society or people around them in order to be well adjusted, happy or anything remotely of the sort? One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other and is nothing more than you projecting that connection.
Being a "humanist" and wanting the best of people, the world and society doesn't mean you simply are all wishy-washy about all the good things and ignore the rest. I am a humanist but merely with very high level of realism combined with science, pragmatism and cynicism from the things I see, learn and experience in life. Being anything but realistic in my opinion is mere delusion and for your own false sense of being.
Man that's pretty funny - I appreciate your psycho-analysis as I'm sure you're so well qualified to do so and know me so well.
Simply because I hold these views as they are doesn't mean I don't hope for good things for myself, others or the world. I think it's more a combination of optimist/pessimist and realist/dreamer... but I guess it's just easier to call people type cast as you've done here in some odd manner.
Also, I'm very big on the idea that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs no matter what they are... not solely those I agree with. And as you state here in bold, I'm very happy you believe that, but I do not. I also think anytime "most people" comments are used, it has zero baring on anything.
Man you got some real isssues and I think you need to do some real soul searching cos you sound like a very miserable and lonely person to me,but maybe im wrong. Life is very precious and very important IMO and I think most people would agree with that.
Whatever... I meant no disrespect. From some your other post you sound like you don't like people or have much faith in society itself. But that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But for someone who says that
I'm very big on the idea that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs no matter what they are... not solely those I agree with. /quote] You sure are quik to jump on me when you feeel it's necessary or you dissagree with me though.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Man that's pretty funny - I appreciate your psycho-analysis as I'm sure you're so well qualified to do so and know me so well.
Simply because I hold these views as they are doesn't mean I don't hope for good things for myself, others or the world. I think it's more a combination of optimist/pessimist and realist/dreamer... but I guess it's just easier to call people type cast as you've done here in some odd manner.
Also, I'm very big on the idea that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs no matter what they are... not solely those I agree with. And as you state here in bold, I'm very happy you believe that, but I do not. I also think anytime "most people" comments are used, it has zero baring on anything.
Man you got some real isssues and I think you need to do some real soul searching cos you sound like a very miserable and lonely person to me,but maybe im wrong. Life is very precious and very important IMO and I think most people would agree with that.
Don't worry; he says the same thing about me when I express my pro-choice views.
Just a matter of time before America is hit again? What about the countries that are war-torn and have innocent civilians who have to put up with this kind of shit 24/7?
Not that I'm condoning this at ALL... I think its disgusting someone would do this... But I'm just saying...
i saw on the news despite being on the no fly list he was able to pay for a ticket in cash and board the plane until the manifest was checked shortly before liftoff
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Yeah I read that as well - everyone is secure, go back to bed America.. soldiers are fighting and protecting your freedoms and rights overseas... blah blah blah blah blah
i saw on the news despite being on the no fly list he was able to pay for a ticket in cash and board the plane until the manifest was checked shortly before liftoff
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Yeah I read that as well - everyone is secure, go back to bed America.. soldiers are fighting and protecting your freedoms and rights overseas... blah blah blah blah blah
i saw on the news despite being on the no fly list he was able to pay for a ticket in cash and board the plane until the manifest was checked shortly before liftoff
I wonder how long it will take right weiners to blame obama for that?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Yeah I read that as well - everyone is secure, go back to bed America.. soldiers are fighting and protecting your freedoms and rights overseas... blah blah blah blah blah
i saw on the news despite being on the no fly list he was able to pay for a ticket in cash and board the plane until the manifest was checked shortly before liftoff
I wonder how long it will take right weiners to blame obama for that?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Yeah I read that as well - everyone is secure, go back to bed America.. soldiers are fighting and protecting your freedoms and rights overseas... blah blah blah blah blah
i saw on the news despite being on the no fly list he was able to pay for a ticket in cash and board the plane until the manifest was checked shortly before liftoff
I wonder how long it will take right weiners to blame obama for that?
they already are. just like its his fault about the oil slick in the gulf of mexico...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
how does being born equate to being guilty??? thats my beef with you. guilty about what exactly??
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
you know, you and i are on the same page about most things ive noticed, but there are those times that you throw me for a loop cause i struggle to grasp what youre trying to say.
how does all that equate to us being born guilty. i ask again.. guilty of what??
imo guilt(the feeling one gets, not the law breaking kind, though technically it is also) is a social construct and it is an emotion i do not subscribe to.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Shahzad Faisal????? what kind of white boy name is that????
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Man you got some real isssues and I think you need to do some real soul searching cos you sound like a very miserable and lonely person to me,but maybe im wrong. Life is very precious and very important IMO and I think most people would agree with that.
well the only thing im victim to is my own stupidity.
and the only thing im entitled(if thats the right word) to, like everyone else on the planet, is not to be fucked with. they call that respect i believe.
im still not getting your guilty/innocent paradigm. but i do agree with you about mans promotion of his own self importance.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Have you seen that documentary called Life and Debt? I think you would like it.
Also, I'll throw my $0.02 in to your discussion with cate. I don't think y'all are disagreeing at all; I think you're just not understand one another.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_times_square_car_bomb
Simply because I hold these views as they are doesn't mean I don't hope for good things for myself, others or the world. I think it's more a combination of optimist/pessimist and realist/dreamer... but I guess it's just easier to call people type cast as you've done here in some odd manner.
Also, I'm very big on the idea that everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs no matter what they are... not solely those I agree with. And as you state here in bold, I'm very happy you believe that, but I do not. I also think anytime "most people" comments are used, it has zero baring on anything.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I'll have to check out that documentary - don't think I've seen it. Thanks for the recommendation.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Whatever... I meant no disrespect. From some your other post you sound like you don't like people or have much faith in society itself. But that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But for someone who says that
i did say i was struggling to understand.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Also, where exactly does it say that a person needs to like the society or people around them in order to be well adjusted, happy or anything remotely of the sort? One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other and is nothing more than you projecting that connection.
Being a "humanist" and wanting the best of people, the world and society doesn't mean you simply are all wishy-washy about all the good things and ignore the rest. I am a humanist but merely with very high level of realism combined with science, pragmatism and cynicism from the things I see, learn and experience in life. Being anything but realistic in my opinion is mere delusion and for your own false sense of being.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Don't worry; he says the same thing about me when I express my pro-choice views.
Not that I'm condoning this at ALL... I think its disgusting someone would do this... But I'm just saying...
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I wonder how long it will take right weiners to blame obama for that?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."