Noam Chomsky on Obama and our current path
pjl44
Posts: 9,836
Very interesting...
http://home.sevenstories.com/index.php/ ... n-america/
Noam Chomsky warns about serious possibility of fascism in America
April 16, 2010
From Matthew Rothschild, editor of The Progressive, on Noam Chomsky’s speech at the Orpheum Theater in Wisconsin last week:
Noam Chomsky, the leading leftwing intellectual, warned last week that fascism may be coming to the United States.
“I’m just old enough to have heard a number of Hitler’s speeches on the radio,” he said, “and I have a memory of the texture and the tone of the cheering mobs, and I have the dread sense of the dark clouds of fascism gathering” here at home.
Chomsky was speaking to more than 1,000 people at the Orpheum Theatre in Madison, Wisconsin, where he received the University of Wisconsin’s A.E. Havens Center’s award for lifetime contribution to critical scholarship.
“The level of anger and fear is like nothing I can compare in my lifetime,” he said.
He cited a statistic from a recent poll showing that half the unaffiliated voters say the average tea party member is closer to them than anyone else.
“Ridiculing the tea party shenanigans is a serious error,” Chomsky said.
Their attitudes “are understandable,” he said. “For over 30 years, real incomes have stagnated or declined. This is in large part the consequence of the decision in the 1970s to financialize the economy.”
There is class resentment, he noted. “The bankers, who are primarily responsible for the crisis, are now reveling in record bonuses while official unemployment is around 10 percent and unemployment in the manufacturing sector is at Depression-era levels,” he said.
And Obama is linked to the bankers, Chomsky explained.
“The financial industry preferred Obama to McCain,” he said. “They expected to be rewarded and they were. Then Obama began to criticize greedy bankers and proposed measures to regulate them. And the punishment for this was very swift: They were going to shift their money to the Republicans. So Obama said bankers are “fine guys” and assured the business world: ‘I, like most of the American people, don’t begrudge people success or wealth. That is part of the free-market system.’
People see that and are not happy about it.”
He said “the colossal toll of the institutional crimes of state capitalism” is what is fueling “the indignation and rage of those cast aside.”
“People want some answers,” Chomsky said. “They are hearing answers from only one place: Fox, talk radio, and Sarah Palin.”
Chomsky invoked Germany during the Weimar Republic, and drew a parallel between it and the United States. “The Weimar Republic was the peak of Western civilization and was regarded as a model of democracy,” he said.
And he stressed how quickly things deteriorated there.
“In 1928 the Nazis had less than 2 percent of the vote,” he said. “Two years later, millions supported them. The public got tired of the incessant wrangling, and the service to the powerful, and the failure of those in power to deal with their grievances.”
He said the German people were susceptible to appeals about “the greatness of the nation, and defending it against threats, and carrying out the will of eternal providence.”
When farmers, the petit bourgeoisie, and Christian organizations joined forces with the Nazis, “the center very quickly collapsed,” Chomsky said.
No analogy is perfect, he said, but the echoes of fascism are “reverberating” today, he said.
“These are lessons to keep in mind.”
http://home.sevenstories.com/index.php/ ... n-america/
Noam Chomsky warns about serious possibility of fascism in America
April 16, 2010
From Matthew Rothschild, editor of The Progressive, on Noam Chomsky’s speech at the Orpheum Theater in Wisconsin last week:
Noam Chomsky, the leading leftwing intellectual, warned last week that fascism may be coming to the United States.
“I’m just old enough to have heard a number of Hitler’s speeches on the radio,” he said, “and I have a memory of the texture and the tone of the cheering mobs, and I have the dread sense of the dark clouds of fascism gathering” here at home.
Chomsky was speaking to more than 1,000 people at the Orpheum Theatre in Madison, Wisconsin, where he received the University of Wisconsin’s A.E. Havens Center’s award for lifetime contribution to critical scholarship.
“The level of anger and fear is like nothing I can compare in my lifetime,” he said.
He cited a statistic from a recent poll showing that half the unaffiliated voters say the average tea party member is closer to them than anyone else.
“Ridiculing the tea party shenanigans is a serious error,” Chomsky said.
Their attitudes “are understandable,” he said. “For over 30 years, real incomes have stagnated or declined. This is in large part the consequence of the decision in the 1970s to financialize the economy.”
There is class resentment, he noted. “The bankers, who are primarily responsible for the crisis, are now reveling in record bonuses while official unemployment is around 10 percent and unemployment in the manufacturing sector is at Depression-era levels,” he said.
And Obama is linked to the bankers, Chomsky explained.
“The financial industry preferred Obama to McCain,” he said. “They expected to be rewarded and they were. Then Obama began to criticize greedy bankers and proposed measures to regulate them. And the punishment for this was very swift: They were going to shift their money to the Republicans. So Obama said bankers are “fine guys” and assured the business world: ‘I, like most of the American people, don’t begrudge people success or wealth. That is part of the free-market system.’
People see that and are not happy about it.”
He said “the colossal toll of the institutional crimes of state capitalism” is what is fueling “the indignation and rage of those cast aside.”
“People want some answers,” Chomsky said. “They are hearing answers from only one place: Fox, talk radio, and Sarah Palin.”
Chomsky invoked Germany during the Weimar Republic, and drew a parallel between it and the United States. “The Weimar Republic was the peak of Western civilization and was regarded as a model of democracy,” he said.
And he stressed how quickly things deteriorated there.
“In 1928 the Nazis had less than 2 percent of the vote,” he said. “Two years later, millions supported them. The public got tired of the incessant wrangling, and the service to the powerful, and the failure of those in power to deal with their grievances.”
He said the German people were susceptible to appeals about “the greatness of the nation, and defending it against threats, and carrying out the will of eternal providence.”
When farmers, the petit bourgeoisie, and Christian organizations joined forces with the Nazis, “the center very quickly collapsed,” Chomsky said.
No analogy is perfect, he said, but the echoes of fascism are “reverberating” today, he said.
“These are lessons to keep in mind.”
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
"The really dangerous American fascists," Wallace wrote, "are not those who are hooked up directly or indirectly with the Axis. The FBI has its finger on those. The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power."
Good quote.
I guess all of it, and great finds both of you(byrnzie and Starfall), begs the question "are we really at risk for something similar to the Nazi movement? What would facism look like when done the American way?
No matter what, without the freedom of REAL information we are all in trouble and susceptible to whatever the government and their mouthpieces have to say. Fox, msnbc, all of the cable "news" networks that aren't all that fair and balanced need to wake up and realize what they have become . . .Just my two cents
again great read
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I don't know. I am inclined to agree with Chomsky on this issue. People want answers, and morever, they deserve answers. They get answers in the form of either 1) Fox news soundbytes or 2) rejoinders that they are racists or right-wing militia sympathizers who are worthy of contempt. Neither the Fox approach nor the emotional response from the left is going to be helpful in persuading these folks that there is not a problem. There is always a danger of turning towards extreme ideologies (e.g., facism) when people are suffering, feeling oppressed or wronged, and no alternative solution is forthcoming. I think Chomsky is right, this needs to be watched closely, and ideally, some way of dealing with people's concerns needs to be found.
I pretty much thought the same thing when I read that - Chomsky is really over-simplifying what was going on in Germany at that time. They were in the equivalent of the Great Depression (30%+ unemployment plus outrageous inflation) and suffering under the requirements of the Versailles Treaty which they wanted the gov't to do something about. Plus, their democracy was in its infancy - compare that to the U.S. system. Chomsky wasn't there. My grandmother was, I suppose I could ask her if she thinks the current level of anger in the US compares but she hasn't even mentioned it so I'm guessing she hasn't been having any Nazi-flashbacks lately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
(this has been posted here before)
I think people know they are getting screwed but they don't know why... they just know there is some sort of external force out there that is making them poor and not living the life they envisioned. The answers, many times, come from Fox or Rush or whatever gaping blowhole that is currently spewing some hot shit propaganda. These answers are, of course, absolutely fucking crazy (mostly). Then these people get angry as hell at fictional ideas, a certain demographic, a class of people, etc. REALLY angry. Yes, I agree that that is scary.
But, I also think that this is a natural cycle in a bipartisan government. It is probably exacerbated by the crazy answers (propaganda) doled out like pancakes at a fire house, but there are so many people who don't listen to that message that instead of a "revolution" I think there is merely a "splinter group." Maybe a large one... but a controllable one.
Yes, and then recently she has said that she thinks Tea Party anger is the solution to fascism here. ( While Chomsky says that Tea Party anger could lead to Americanized-fascism creeping in. :? )
While I'm certainly not altogether happy with Obama or Democrats or even the two-party system, I disagree with Wolf that the Tea Party is any kind of solution. I mean, she hates the Glenn Beck rhetoric yet she doesn't make the connection btwn that and the Tea Party? The Tea Party anger is fanned and co-opted by FNC. In some cases even created by FNC with mis-information. Tea Partiers will end up supporting FNC-endorsed candidates who will then be beholden to FNC.
I don't see how a right-wing media, corporate-sponsored, bought-and-paid for representative or President is any kind of solution to fascism - or any of our other current problems, for that matter.
Do you agree with Noam Chomsky?
He's a liberal and anarchist. And you understand that in this analogy the Tea Party are the Nazis, right?
when there is total disruption of a country .....when there is no equal justice for the people, capitalism is a bad, the president ignores the people and then ridicules them, Christians are ridiculed yet, Muslims are praised ......people will then agree to anything, thinking, anything is better than what we are doing now.... it’s a plan to pit citizens against each other.....yes I agree...but it is not just the tea party....the extreme left is also fanning the flame with there hatred for fellow Americans
Is there really a problem when the people want Washington to follow the Constitution, stop the corruption, and be accountable?
I'll probably regret asking, but, Huh? :?
Is there really a problem when the people want Washington to follow the Constitution, stop the corruption, and be accountable?
Sorry; maybe my question wasn't clear. I meant Huh? with regard to the part I quoted.
however, I did notice your point as well: a glaring omission of Fox’s involvement in the Tea Party’s origins, and it's ongoing support. Honestly, I haven’t followed the whole Tea Party drama very closely (I’m Canadian, rarely watch tv - don't get Fox News, and didn't take this seriously at first). But I have always been suspicious of any political movement promoted by the MSM…even going back to the first time I heard Ron Paul speak, I got concerned about subversion….about neo-cons and establishment Rep's ‘getting ahead of the story’ and manipulating legit concerns for their benefit. I think she addresses that in the interview tho…
I'm still on the fence about the tea party. I agree with her that at it's core, they have some important ideas which, once watered down for mass consumption, could be very beneficial to the US...so despite the fact that there appears to be a ton of idiots participating, I hate to discourage political activism / involvement.
by Daniel L. Abrahamson
Noam Chomsky is often hailed as America’s premier dissident intellectual, a fearless purveyor of truth fighting against media propaganda, murderous U.S. foreign policy, and the crimes of profit-hungry transnational corporations.
He enjoys a slavish cult-like following from millions leftist students, journalists, and activists worldwide who fawn over his dense books as if they were scripture. To them, Chomsky is the supreme deity, a priestly master whose logic cannot be questioned.
However as one begins to examine the interviews and writings of Chomsky, a different picture emerges. His books, so vociferously lauded in leftist circles, appear to be calculated disinformation designed to distract and confuse honest activists. Since the 1960's, Chomsky has acted as the premier Left gatekeeper, using his elevated status to cover up the major crimes of the global elite.
His formula over the years has stayed consistent: blame "America" and "corporations" while failing to examine the hidden Globalist overclass which pulls the strings, using the U.S. as an engine of creation and destruction. Then after pinning all the worlds ills on American imperialism, Chomsky offers the solution of world government under the United Nations.
In his book "The Conspirator’s Hierarchy," Dr. John Coleman named Chomsky as a deep cover CIA agent working to undermine social protest groups. Certainly Dr. Coleman’s claims appear validated by an honest review of Chomsky’s role as a Left gatekeeper.
Since 9-11, he has steadfastly refused to discuss the evidence of government complicity and prior knowledge. Furthermore he claims that the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), Bilderberg Committee, and Trilateral Commission are "nothing organizations." When critiquing poverty, he never mentions the Federal Reserve and their role in manipulating the national debt.
Similarly, he claims the CIA was never a rogue organization and is an innocent scapegoat; that JFK was killed by the lone assassin Lee Harvey Oswald; that the obvious vote fraud in 2004 did not occur; and that peak oil is real and good for humanity.
What he does advocate is population control, gun control, support for U.N.E.S.C.O., and the end of national sovereignty in favor of a one-world government under the UN. In other words, the major goals of the New World Order.
Chomsky’s role in propaganda paradigm is much like that of Karl Marx: to present a false liberation ideology which actually supports the desired solutions of the elite. Marx pointed out the inequalities and brutality of capitalism and then advocated a one world bank, army, and government with the abolition of private property and religion; in other words, the major goals known of the New World Order.
Tens of millions of activists worldwide still remain trapped by this scam, failing to recognize the inherent autocratic and elitist structures of Marxism-Leninism or the newer incarnation under Chomsky.
The Globalist elites and their army of social scientists at the Tavistock Institute understand that people are going to question the inequities of the current economic system. For example, why is wealth distributed so unequally between classes and countries? Why are those living in third world nations allowed to die from preventable diseases and starvation? Why does the U.S. government sponsor and direct such murderous foreign policy? Why was America attacked on 9-11?
In other words, why is the world embroiled in such violence? Who is behind all this suffering? And most importantly, what solutions would relieve the poverty and destruction plaguing the worldwide population?
Enter Chomsky, the controlled opposition, to play the role of re-direct agent. He discusses a mere fraction of the real elite manipulation and then quickly pushes his followers into dead-end solutions and alienating rhetoric. Chomsky’s hero status is further amplified by Left gatekeeper publications like Z Magazine, DemocracyNow! (Amy Goodman),The Progressive, and The Nation.
Is it a coincidence that all of those magazines receive major funding from Globalist front-groups like the Rockefeller Foundation, Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, and MacArthur Foundation?
Chomsky may be the head gatekeeper, but he works alongside a network of fellow Globalist assets like Amy Goodman who do their best to appear radical while avoiding all the hardcore issues and deliberately leading the Left into oblivion.
The following analysis will show that Chomsky, a deep cover agent for the New World Order, a master of black propaganda whose true motives become clear with a sober and honest examination.
[lots more to read if you just follow the link. LOTS more]
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I didn't hear you complaining when Bush was in power.
+1
aerial at time you make Rush look good....
I'm confused... it seems as if you are trying to justify reasons for people (Tea Partiers?) to be pissed off - with delusions or at least grandiose ideas - but then in the same breathe you condemn them by saying you agree with Chomsky's opinion that it is the birth of a fascist movement. Or maybe you got the wrong idea about that article? Did you think it was saying that they are JUSTIFIED in their approach?
http://antinewworldorder.blogspot.com/2 ... x.htmlMarx publicly urged the working class to overthrow the capitalists (the wealthy who profited from the Stock Exchange), in June, 1864, "in a letter to his uncle, Leon Phillips, Marx announced that he had made 400 pounds on the Stock Exchange." It is obvious that Marx didn't practice what he preached, and therefore didn't really believe in the movement he was giving birth to. He was an employee, doing a job for his Illuminati bosses.
imagine that.... :idea:
I love this link here.
I do believe that Naomi Wolf has seen the roots of the TEA Party movement through her speaking engagements, which did actually start at towards the end of the Bush's tenure, when it was small, and 100% sincere before being co-opted by FOXNEWS. Has anyone here seen the movie NETWORK? I feel the sentiment expressed in that great piece of art applies here and always.
It's just like the people on this board asking, "Where are the Anti-War protesters now?" and "Where were you when Bush was spending out of control and growing the size of government?" The truth is, there are still people pounding the pavement against the war, and there WERE people out there protesting the increasing size of government. The X-factor is the mainstream media, and who they choose to cover, and specifically which individual groups within the larger movement. I've got news for you. From here, until the end of time, someone somewhere is always going to compare our President to Hitler, and hold up signs of that guy with a 1-inch moustache. Some presidents will be more deserving of it than others.
Boycott mainstream media-- our ideas aren't really all that much different than each others, but this force has the ability to polarize us all. Divide and conquer? I think so.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 50622.html
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
no, I think Aerial thought that too judging from her comments about how (I'm paraphrasing here) people would regard this guy (Chomsky) as some redneck racist... I think that meant that she thought that the Tea Partiers are the righteous ones calling out the fascists... not that Chomsky's point is that the Tea Partiers ARE the fascists, at least potentially. I thought it was funny that a supposed Tea Partier AGREED with Noam Chomsky. He is calling Tea Partiers and their media lords NAZIS, for Christ's sake!
IMO he's just comparing the political atmosphere in your country to that of pre Nazi era Germany - I don't see any direct comparisons on either side. He's sympathizing with the Tea Party and their motives, yet comparing their support of the right to the pre-Nazi German public attitude (criticizing them for supporting potentially fascist ideals)....He also criticizes the admin for being in bed with the bankers (a trait of a fascist admin). he's just saying it's folly to ignore them or write them off as nuts or ignorant, or an insignificant minority, because this is how things started in Germany. He also negates mention of Fox's role in promoting the Tea Party. that's my take anyway.
Wolf, however, clearly calls the admin the fascists in her seminar.