So what exactly has America done for minorities that gives you the leeway to make a statement like that? Should I poll some Native Americans and ask them how well they were treated? Maybe I should ask some African Americans who were alive before 1964 and ask them how awesome it was to be an American who wasn't allowed to sit with "fellow" Americans who had white skin. Lynchings must've been so much fun for African Americans - they probably feel bummed out that there hasn't been one in... 12 years.
Now that I think about it, I think I understand the basis of her perspective on this. (I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong, but, even so, I think this is the notion behind these types of statements in general.) I think people believe we've done so much for minorities because they think, look how far we've come. Like, because there are such fewer lynchings now than before, obviously we've done great things for the minorities of this country. An analogy, I think, would be to say that if we paid the people of color in the United States $0.01 on ever $1.00 received by white folks who do the same job, and then we improved the situation so as to pay them $0.50 on every $1.00, we've done a lot more than the countries who haven't done anything for minorities because they already paid them equally. Does that make sense? It's about the magnitude of change being greater, not about the actual treatment of minorities.
Of course this attitude is rooted in an underlying sense of entitlement, paternalism, etc. on the part of the folks in the majority who think this way. To think that we have "done more" for a group of people just because we have treated them with the equality they deserve (and, in the US, we haven't even done that) suggests that we don't TRULY have a sense that they deserve it to begin with, ya know? (I think it's very similar to the sentiment that wealthy corporations/people should be able to get rich by exploiting the poor, and then if the poor want to a bigger share of the money earned by their own labor, that means they're expecting a handout.) Essentially, I think we disempower minorities, etc. because we can, and then exalt ourselves (a la aerial) for giving them back even some of the power they should have had to begin with, all the while not seeing any problem with our system that gives us the power to distribute to begin with.
You may live in a racism-free part of America, but here in the Deep South, I can tell you that it's still alive and well. If you don't believe me, come to Jazz Fest and I'll introduce you to my father-in-law. He's "educated" me on a lot of things... like the fact that Africa should be the one apologizing for slavery because the South did nothing wrong (he has referred to the era of slave ownership as the "golden era" in American history), and the fact that he won't let my sister-in-law take her son with her if she moves overseas to get her doctorate because he refuses to see his grandson be raised by foreigners. Well, I'm sure the next generation of Texans will be smarter at least, after they have grown up with the benefit of an education free of any mention of how Mexicans helped shape the US.
Please don't contribute to the stereotype of the South as the only/primary racist part of the United States. I can assure you, racism exists throughout this nation. And I think stereotyping the South as being the only racist faction of the country not only does an injustice to them, but it also allows the rest of the country to disregard the racism in their own backyards.
That is all I was trying to say!
But I do have a question...why is it you want to go back in history to prove me a racist...yet when I revert back to history to try and explain how this country was intended to run all I hear is that was then....this is now
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
This has to be the most repeated question on the MT....and I, like most others have said we did not agree with Bush either....Most of THESE people feel the same ...so why keep asking the same question?....because you think this some how demonizes The Tea Party?...what answer are you looking for?
Is there really a problem when the people want Washington to follow the Constitution, and stop the corruption, and demand accountability?
I think the point is being repeated because the inaction under Bush - whether or not you agreed with him (and I, personally, believe that most people in this movement supported him) - but outcry under Obama demonstrates a hypocrisy indicative of an ulterior motive.
And of course there's not a problem with wanting Washington to follow the Constitution, stop the corruption, and be accountable. The problem comes when you act like you get to define what these things mean and then accuse other groups of not wanting the same things because they disagree with you.
Actually I believe everyone wants this....why wouldn’t they?......that is why I do not understand what the disagreement is about..... Except people are labeling the Tea Party racist for what reason?...I do not know.....
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
This has to be the most repeated question on the MT....and I, like most others have said we did not agree with Bush either....Most of THESE people feel the same ...so why keep asking the same question?....because you think this some how demonizes The Tea Party?...what answer are you looking for?
Is there really a problem when the people want Washington to follow the Constitution, and stop the corruption, and demand accountability?
I think the point is being repeated because the inaction under Bush - whether or not you agreed with him (and I, personally, believe that most people in this movement supported him) - but outcry under Obama demonstrates a hypocrisy indicative of an ulterior motive.
And of course there's not a problem with wanting Washington to follow the Constitution, stop the corruption, and be accountable. The problem comes when you act like you get to define what these things mean and then accuse other groups of not wanting the same things because they disagree with you.
Actually I believe everyone wants this....why wouldn’t they?......that is why I do not understand what the disagreement is about..... Except people are labeling the Tea Party racist for what reason?...I do not know.....
it is not "for no reason" aerial...im not going to rehash this with you for the tenth time so if you want to know why i think a lot of tea partiers are racists you can just search my posts.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
First of all The Africans sold there own people
.....I do not agree with hatred or violence against other humans and I don’t condone what was done to the Indians....But The Indians are set up now....
.....now check out how many laws protect the White man just because he is white....
Then see how many laws protect, the so called minorities....
These are not my feelings..just facts...so don't even try and spin it into something it is not please...
I rest my case!
Wow. Just... WOW. :shock: You really never cease to amaze me. Sometimes I think you're not even serious, but are just saying the most assinine shit you can think of just to piss people off.
[Personally, I don't think the Tea Party movement, as a group, is motivated primarily by racism. But I can certainly see why so many people think it is with people like you representing them. If you want to allow people to maintain any shred of respect they may have had for your movement, you should just stop talking now.
First of all
I cannot help that there were slaves....I can’t help there are different colors of skin in this world......so don’t try and put that on my back or the Tea Party.....I just stated facts that’s it......Oh and I asked a question that I see no one wants to answer ..........Name any legislation that was passed to help a person ONLY because they are white....
I see how racism held this black man down
A black man becomes President of The United States of America and some still want to harp on slavery....get over it!!!!!
[Of course you can't help that there were slaves - neither can I or any of the rest of us. But you don't have to make excuses for the slave owners by trying to shift the blame back to Africans, as if white Americans had nothing to do with it. Your implication is offensive and racist... and it's ironic that you said this right after acting outraged that I might compare something you said to something a slave owner might say.
I'm not trying to put slavery or the fact that there are different colors of skin in this world (as if that's some kind of problem? :? ) on the Tea Party or you.
I am, however, accusing you of being a hateful, ignorant racist.
What the fuck difference does it make whether there has been any legislation that has passed to help a person only because s/he is white?? Frankly, there hasn't been any legislation passed to help a person ONLY because s/he is a person of color either... legislation has been passed to help a person because s/he is a person of color AND because people of color get fucked in this country. When white people, as a group, start getting fucked merely because of the color of their skin, then and only then should we address whether there should be similar laws to protect them.
And regarding getting over racism just because Obama was elected, the people of this country will & should get over racism ONLY if & when racism completely ceases to exist - not just because one half-black man has been elected to our highest political office.
Edit to add: If you have such a problem with people fighting against racism, then STOP PERPETUATING RACISM and we won't have anything to fight against.
Look when someone compares me to a slave owner I will set there ass straight...if you think it ignorant and racist to defend myself well you better look up the meaning of ignorant and racist!........I was not making excuses for slave owners....I was stating facts......
And how about the white guys (oh shit is that racist?) getting Fucked because of the color of there skin In the Ricci case - New Haven, Connecticut ..... white firemen suffered illegal discrimination when a promotional test on which they did well was thrown out because not enough blacks did well -
The issue: Reverse discrimination against white firemen.
And your reference to Obama getting elected are you saying he isn’t black enough for you to be considered black?
Just because someone is having a conversation about race makes them a racist? ......how can racism cease to exist if you and others keep throwing that word around whenever you feel....calling people you don’t even know racist?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Now that I think about it, I think I understand the basis of her perspective on this. (I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong, but, even so, I think this is the notion behind these types of statements in general.) I think people believe we've done so much for minorities because they think, look how far we've come. Like, because there are such fewer lynchings now than before, obviously we've done great things for the minorities of this country. An analogy, I think, would be to say that if we paid the people of color in the United States $0.01 on ever $1.00 received by white folks who do the same job, and then we improved the situation so as to pay them $0.50 on every $1.00, we've done a lot more than the countries who haven't done anything for minorities because they already paid them equally. Does that make sense? It's about the magnitude of change being greater, not about the actual treatment of minorities.
Of course this attitude is rooted in an underlying sense of entitlement, paternalism, etc. on the part of the folks in the majority who think this way. To think that we have "done more" for a group of people just because we have treated them with the equality they deserve (and, in the US, we haven't even done that) suggests that we don't TRULY have a sense that they deserve it to begin with, ya know? (I think it's very similar to the sentiment that wealthy corporations/people should be able to get rich by exploiting the poor, and then if the poor want to a bigger share of the money earned by their own labor, that means they're expecting a handout.) Essentially, I think we disempower minorities, etc. because we can, and then exalt ourselves (a la aerial) for giving them back even some of the power they should have had to begin with, all the while not seeing any problem with our system that gives us the power to distribute to begin with.
That is all I was trying to say!
:? I know... I was saying I thought that's what you were trying to say. I wasn't saying that's what I believe though.
But I do have a question...why is it you want to go back in history to prove me a racist...
I don't want to go back in history. I've just pointed out that I think what you have said here in the present day - about what's going on in the present day - has been racist... in a current sort of way, not a historical one.
Look when someone compares me to a slave owner I will set there ass straight...if you think it ignorant and racist to defend myself well you better look up the meaning of ignorant and racist!........I was not making excuses for slave owners....I was stating facts......
And how about the white guys (oh shit is that racist?) getting Fucked because of the color of there skin In the Ricci case - New Haven, Connecticut ..... white firemen suffered illegal discrimination when a promotional test on which they did well was thrown out because not enough blacks did well -
The issue: Reverse discrimination against white firemen.
And your reference to Obama getting elected are you saying he isn’t black enough for you to be considered black?
Just because someone is having a conversation about race makes them a racist? ......how can racism cease to exist if you and others keep throwing that word around whenever you feel....calling people you don’t even know racist?
I'm totally confused about this whole conversation. I said I thought your statement that the U.S. has done more for minorities than any other country resembled a paternalistic tone a slave owner might take. I did not say that comment was ignorant and racist. I said your subsequent comments, about how Native Americans have it so good now and how it's the Africans who sold their own people, were ignorant and racist (and I'm well aware of the meaning of these terms, thank you). The comments of yours to which I was referring at this point were in response to someone else's post, so they were hardly a defense against my previous comment about paternalism & slave owners. Also, I don't see how your comment about Africans selling their own people - especially if it was some kind of defense against my comment about slave owners - could have been anything but making excuses for slave owners.
Regarding discrimination against white people... what's your point. I have never said that discrimination against white people does not exist. On the contrary, being an unmistakably white person who has lived almost exclusively in places where white people are the minority, I have been the object of discrimination/prejudice on many occassions. But this discussion is about racism in the United States - not prejudice in some smaller society. Racism = prejudice PLUS power. In the United States, white people, as a group, have the power. This means that white people - the ones in power - are not capable of being subjected to the institutionalized racism that exists for minorities in this country. It does not mean that individual white people can never be the object of prejudice (and possibly even racism, if looking at a smaller power structure) - and I have never said it does. It just means that arguments about individuals cases are not relevant to discussions about the power dynamics of whole races of people within the structure of the United States.
And that brings me to your next question. I have never suggested that Obama isn't "black enough". What I suggested, as I stated above, is that individual cases are not relevant enough to challenge the entire power structure of institutional racism in this country.
And of course having a conversation about race doesn't make someone a racist - I'm having a conversation about race right now and I'm not a racist. It's defending racism, disregarding the injustices that people of color are still subject to in this country, speaking about people of other races in a paternalistic & marginalizing tone, etc. that is racist.
I am not saying that anyone here is or is not a racist
but racism is inherent in our society, we have came a long way
but we still spread prejudice to the next generations and label people based on how they look
there are a lot of uninformed Americans that do not trust Obama becuase he is black
(I say Americans cause it is not all whites, I had jury duty once and a guy who looked to be from India told the judge he could not serve on the jury becuase he hated black people and it was a trail of murder for a young black man)
the irony is that Obama got elected because he got middle class independent whites to vote for him
Tonight as I was listening to President Obama's address to the Gathering of Nations, North America's largest powwow, he said something I thought was relevant to this thread. He said, "Although we've made great strides in improving the lives of Native Americans, we have so much more work to do."
I think your comments, aerial, about the US having done more for minorities than any other country and about Indians being "set up now," are one-sided (to put it nicely) in that they focus on the great strides we have made to the exclusion of the more work we have to do.
(Although I still can't see how anyone could possibly, no matter how one-sided, describe the current experience of Native Americans as being "set up".)
The race card is getting sooo old....I don’t think there has ever been a country that has done more for minorities that the USA........We are not a racist country....You need to try and come up with something better than that... :idea:
America is not a racist country... yet "there has ever been a country that has done more for minorities that the USA." Based on what, exactly? That sounds like some pretty cocky holier-than-thou stuff if you ask me. I notice a lot of the "America is the greatest!" people do nothing more than compare America to countries in the Middle East. "We are the best because we have freedoms!" Guess what - so does most of the rest of the world! The Scandinavian countries are streets ahead of the USA in most quality of life calculations. Hell, they even put my own country to shame.
So what exactly has America done for minorities that gives you the leeway to make a statement like that? Should I poll some Native Americans and ask them how well they were treated? Maybe I should ask some African Americans who were alive before 1964 and ask them how awesome it was to be an American who wasn't allowed to sit with "fellow" Americans who had white skin. Lynchings must've been so much fun for African Americans - they probably feel bummed out that there hasn't been one in... 12 years. I mean, nothing says "I don’t think there has ever been a country that has done more for minorities that the USA" quite like three Texans dragging an African American father of three behind a truck before dumping his remains in a cemetery and heading off to a bbq. And I'm sure the kids in Jena who started the controversy there four years ago were merely trying to invite the black students to play spelling games with them when they hung nooses from a tree in the schoolyard.
I can't speak for the rest of the world, because I only have first hand knowledge of New Zealand and America, but I can already call bullshit on your statement because NZ puts the USA to shame when it comes to treatment of minorities. We didn't own slaves. We didn't banish the Maori to reservations. We have two official languages - English and Maori. Have we always had racial harmony? Hell no - the late 1800s were a shitty time to be Maori in New Zealand. But we apologized, the Maori still own their tribal lands, and they're fully integrated in everyday life. We all get along just fine. We celebrate our differences - the Maori even have their own TV channel, and Maori culture is VERY prominent in everyday life. If you want to know what traditional Maori life is like, you can visit a marae. If you want to know what traditional Native American life was like... what are your options? Rent "Dances with Wolves?" Hell, we've even treated women better than the USA has historically. What was the first country in the world to give women the right to vote? New Zealand. We were also the first country in the world to create welfare programs for the elderly.
You may live in a racism-free part of America, but here in the Deep South, I can tell you that it's still alive and well. If you don't believe me, come to Jazz Fest and I'll introduce you to my father-in-law. He's "educated" me on a lot of things... like the fact that Africa should be the one apologizing for slavery because the South did nothing wrong (he has referred to the era of slave ownership as the "golden era" in American history), and the fact that he won't let my sister-in-law take her son with her if she moves overseas to get her doctorate because he refuses to see his grandson be raised by foreigners. Well, I'm sure the next generation of Texans will be smarter at least, after they have grown up with the benefit of an education free of any mention of how Mexicans helped shape the US.
In short, my Pearl Jam-loving friend, you're full of baloney. While the majority of Americans might not have a racist bone in their body, the country as a whole still has plenty of blood under its fingernails - and some of that blood is still very fresh. If you honestly think that no country has done more for minorities than the USA, then you need to go and take some classes in history and geography. There are a lot of things Americans can justifiably be extremely proud of when it comes to their country, but treatment of minorities is certainly not one of them.
I don't even know where to begin. First of all I think you are very misguided I get a little angry when people move here from other countries and start bashing us,and half the time they,you don't even know what the hell they are talking about. If were so bad of a country than why did you come here ? It's easy for people like you to point fingers at us for things that happened in the past. I will agree with you that a lot of bad things did happen in this country in the first 150 years. We have made great strides to right the wrongs and and I also think you are judging everyone in the south based on your inlaws point of view.
The race card is getting sooo old....I don’t think there has ever been a country that has done more for minorities that the USA........We are not a racist country....You need to try and come up with something better than that... :idea:
America is not a racist country... yet "there has ever been a country that has done more for minorities that the USA." Based on what, exactly? That sounds like some pretty cocky holier-than-thou stuff if you ask me. I notice a lot of the "America is the greatest!" people do nothing more than compare America to countries in the Middle East. "We are the best because we have freedoms!" Guess what - so does most of the rest of the world! The Scandinavian countries are streets ahead of the USA in most quality of life calculations. Hell, they even put my own country to shame.
So what exactly has America done for minorities that gives you the leeway to make a statement like that? Should I poll some Native Americans and ask them how well they were treated? Maybe I should ask some African Americans who were alive before 1964 and ask them how awesome it was to be an American who wasn't allowed to sit with "fellow" Americans who had white skin. Lynchings must've been so much fun for African Americans - they probably feel bummed out that there hasn't been one in... 12 years. I mean, nothing says "I don’t think there has ever been a country that has done more for minorities that the USA" quite like three Texans dragging an African American father of three behind a truck before dumping his remains in a cemetery and heading off to a bbq. And I'm sure the kids in Jena who started the controversy there four years ago were merely trying to invite the black students to play spelling games with them when they hung nooses from a tree in the schoolyard.
I can't speak for the rest of the world, because I only have first hand knowledge of New Zealand and America, but I can already call bullshit on your statement because NZ puts the USA to shame when it comes to treatment of minorities. We didn't own slaves. We didn't banish the Maori to reservations. We have two official languages - English and Maori. Have we always had racial harmony? Hell no - the late 1800s were a shitty time to be Maori in New Zealand. But we apologized, the Maori still own their tribal lands, and they're fully integrated in everyday life. We all get along just fine. We celebrate our differences - the Maori even have their own TV channel, and Maori culture is VERY prominent in everyday life. If you want to know what traditional Maori life is like, you can visit a marae. If you want to know what traditional Native American life was like... what are your options? Rent "Dances with Wolves?" Hell, we've even treated women better than the USA has historically. What was the first country in the world to give women the right to vote? New Zealand. We were also the first country in the world to create welfare programs for the elderly.
You may live in a racism-free part of America, but here in the Deep South, I can tell you that it's still alive and well. If you don't believe me, come to Jazz Fest and I'll introduce you to my father-in-law. He's "educated" me on a lot of things... like the fact that Africa should be the one apologizing for slavery because the South did nothing wrong (he has referred to the era of slave ownership as the "golden era" in American history), and the fact that he won't let my sister-in-law take her son with her if she moves overseas to get her doctorate because he refuses to see his grandson be raised by foreigners. Well, I'm sure the next generation of Texans will be smarter at least, after they have grown up with the benefit of an education free of any mention of how Mexicans helped shape the US.
In short, my Pearl Jam-loving friend, you're full of baloney. While the majority of Americans might not have a racist bone in their body, the country as a whole still has plenty of blood under its fingernails - and some of that blood is still very fresh. If you honestly think that no country has done more for minorities than the USA, then you need to go and take some classes in history and geography. There are a lot of things Americans can justifiably be extremely proud of when it comes to their country, but treatment of minorities is certainly not one of them.
I don't even know where to begin. First of all I think you are very misguided I get a little angry when people move here from other countries and start bashing us,and half the time they,you don't even know what the hell they are talking about. If were so bad of a country than why did you come here ? It's easy for people like you to point fingers at us for things that happened in the past. I will agree with you that a lot of bad things did happen in this country in the first 150 years. We have made great strides to right the wrongs and and I also think you are judging everyone in the south based on your inlaws point of view.
Well I was born and raised in this country and - with the exception of his decision to single out the South - I agree with everything he said. You can't say that I don't know what I'm talking about.
You seem to be arguing against what cajunkiwi said, in defense of what aerial has said. Is that correct? But you haven't really made much of an argument except to say that great strides have been made. I think we can all agree on that. Do you agree that these great strides have not fully put an end to racism in this country and that we still have further to go?
The race card is getting sooo old....I don’t think there has ever been a country that has done more for minorities that the USA........We are not a racist country....You need to try and come up with something better than that... :idea:
79% of Americans do not trust the Government...Miller (a guest on O’Riley) was wondering who the other idiots are that do think the Government is doing a good job..... ...looks like they are here posting on the MT
what have we done for minorities, in particular what have we done that other countries have not done?
specifics please
the right to vote?
affirmative action?
why should we be so high and mighty?
Look I was not trying to be high and mighty and I could be wrong That USA have done the most...really I have no facts on that...that was an emotional response to another person saying that Tea Party people hate Obama because he is black......but I do know that we have passed so much legislation to try and even the field for all Americans and we even have a black (or half...not that it matters how black or white a person is) in the White House as the President of the USA, yet people (white people mostly) still get tagged racist when defending them selves............geez even someone else on here said he is half black....so how do we keep coming back to the racist thing....is it just a response to piss people off? Is it meant to derail the conversation?
no not trying to derail the conversation
but people keep denying that there is still a strong presence of racism in this country that has been awakened by having a black presidents.....
if Palin was president we would not be talking about race, we would be talking about stupidest leader of the world
How can people justify labeling others racist just because they disagree with the President....
And let’s just remember it goes both ways...as you can see by just one example......
In the Ricci case - New Haven, Connecticut ..... white firemen suffered illegal discrimination when a promotional test on which they did well was thrown out because not enough blacks did well -
The issue: Reverse discrimination against white firemen.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
How can people justify labeling others racist just because they disagree with the President....
And let’s just remember it goes both ways...as you can see by just one example......
In the Ricci case - New Haven, Connecticut ..... white firemen suffered illegal discrimination when a promotional test on which they did well was thrown out because not enough blacks did well -
The issue: Reverse discrimination against white firemen.
oh they "suffered illegal racism"...cry me a river...have you ever experienced discrimination?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
How can people justify labeling others racist just because they disagree with the President....
And let’s just remember it goes both ways...as you can see by just one example......
In the Ricci case - New Haven, Connecticut ..... white firemen suffered illegal discrimination when a promotional test on which they did well was thrown out because not enough blacks did well -
The issue: Reverse discrimination against white firemen.
oh they "suffered illegal racism"...cry me a river...have you ever experienced discrimination?
I see racism is not an atrocity when used toward white men that are held back from a job, only because of the color of there skin...Why is it you laugh?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
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How can people justify labeling others racist just because they disagree with the President....
And let’s just remember it goes both ways...as you can see by just one example......
In the Ricci case - New Haven, Connecticut ..... white firemen suffered illegal discrimination when a promotional test on which they did well was thrown out because not enough blacks did well -
The issue: Reverse discrimination against white firemen.
I disagree with him, as do many others here on many issues but does that mean we're racist too? I didn't vote for but some of the things he's doing I do like some I don't but the issue of race does come up because we do have a President who happens to be black. Race doesn't become an issue if we had a white President but we might discuss his speech impediment.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Comments
But I do have a question...why is it you want to go back in history to prove me a racist...yet when I revert back to history to try and explain how this country was intended to run all I hear is that was then....this is now
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Look when someone compares me to a slave owner I will set there ass straight...if you think it ignorant and racist to defend myself well you better look up the meaning of ignorant and racist!........I was not making excuses for slave owners....I was stating facts......
And how about the white guys (oh shit is that racist?) getting Fucked because of the color of there skin In the Ricci case - New Haven, Connecticut ..... white firemen suffered illegal discrimination when a promotional test on which they did well was thrown out because not enough blacks did well -
The issue: Reverse discrimination against white firemen.
And your reference to Obama getting elected are you saying he isn’t black enough for you to be considered black?
Just because someone is having a conversation about race makes them a racist? ......how can racism cease to exist if you and others keep throwing that word around whenever you feel....calling people you don’t even know racist?
:? I know... I was saying I thought that's what you were trying to say. I wasn't saying that's what I believe though.
I don't want to go back in history. I've just pointed out that I think what you have said here in the present day - about what's going on in the present day - has been racist... in a current sort of way, not a historical one.
I'm honestly not sure what you're refering to here.
I'm totally confused about this whole conversation. I said I thought your statement that the U.S. has done more for minorities than any other country resembled a paternalistic tone a slave owner might take. I did not say that comment was ignorant and racist. I said your subsequent comments, about how Native Americans have it so good now and how it's the Africans who sold their own people, were ignorant and racist (and I'm well aware of the meaning of these terms, thank you). The comments of yours to which I was referring at this point were in response to someone else's post, so they were hardly a defense against my previous comment about paternalism & slave owners. Also, I don't see how your comment about Africans selling their own people - especially if it was some kind of defense against my comment about slave owners - could have been anything but making excuses for slave owners.
Regarding discrimination against white people... what's your point. I have never said that discrimination against white people does not exist. On the contrary, being an unmistakably white person who has lived almost exclusively in places where white people are the minority, I have been the object of discrimination/prejudice on many occassions. But this discussion is about racism in the United States - not prejudice in some smaller society. Racism = prejudice PLUS power. In the United States, white people, as a group, have the power. This means that white people - the ones in power - are not capable of being subjected to the institutionalized racism that exists for minorities in this country. It does not mean that individual white people can never be the object of prejudice (and possibly even racism, if looking at a smaller power structure) - and I have never said it does. It just means that arguments about individuals cases are not relevant to discussions about the power dynamics of whole races of people within the structure of the United States.
And that brings me to your next question. I have never suggested that Obama isn't "black enough". What I suggested, as I stated above, is that individual cases are not relevant enough to challenge the entire power structure of institutional racism in this country.
And of course having a conversation about race doesn't make someone a racist - I'm having a conversation about race right now and I'm not a racist. It's defending racism, disregarding the injustices that people of color are still subject to in this country, speaking about people of other races in a paternalistic & marginalizing tone, etc. that is racist.
but racism is inherent in our society, we have came a long way
but we still spread prejudice to the next generations and label people based on how they look
there are a lot of uninformed Americans that do not trust Obama becuase he is black
(I say Americans cause it is not all whites, I had jury duty once and a guy who looked to be from India told the judge he could not serve on the jury becuase he hated black people and it was a trail of murder for a young black man)
the irony is that Obama got elected because he got middle class independent whites to vote for him
I think your comments, aerial, about the US having done more for minorities than any other country and about Indians being "set up now," are one-sided (to put it nicely) in that they focus on the great strides we have made to the exclusion of the more work we have to do.
(Although I still can't see how anyone could possibly, no matter how one-sided, describe the current experience of Native Americans as being "set up".)
I don't even know where to begin. First of all I think you are very misguided I get a little angry when people move here from other countries and start bashing us,and half the time they,you don't even know what the hell they are talking about. If were so bad of a country than why did you come here ? It's easy for people like you to point fingers at us for things that happened in the past. I will agree with you that a lot of bad things did happen in this country in the first 150 years. We have made great strides to right the wrongs and and I also think you are judging everyone in the south based on your inlaws point of view.
Well I was born and raised in this country and - with the exception of his decision to single out the South - I agree with everything he said. You can't say that I don't know what I'm talking about.
You seem to be arguing against what cajunkiwi said, in defense of what aerial has said. Is that correct? But you haven't really made much of an argument except to say that great strides have been made. I think we can all agree on that. Do you agree that these great strides have not fully put an end to racism in this country and that we still have further to go?
no not trying to derail the conversation
but people keep denying that there is still a strong presence of racism in this country that has been awakened by having a black presidents.....
if Palin was president we would not be talking about race, we would be talking about stupidest leader of the world
And let’s just remember it goes both ways...as you can see by just one example......
In the Ricci case - New Haven, Connecticut ..... white firemen suffered illegal discrimination when a promotional test on which they did well was thrown out because not enough blacks did well -
The issue: Reverse discrimination against white firemen.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I see racism is not an atrocity when used toward white men that are held back from a job, only because of the color of there skin...Why is it you laugh?
I disagree with him, as do many others here on many issues but does that mean we're racist too? I didn't vote for but some of the things he's doing I do like some I don't but the issue of race does come up because we do have a President who happens to be black. Race doesn't become an issue if we had a white President but we might discuss his speech impediment.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)