That makes sense in an Obama vs. McCain scenario here on the Train, and that was BEFORE Obama took office, when all he could be held to were his campaign promises, which sounded pretty good to true principled liberals. Paul and McCain are night and day in terms of their political beliefs.
With a little over a year under his belt, people have had some time (not much, but some time) to determine whether he will at least TRY to deliver on some of his campaign ideas.
Would Dr. Paul be able to accomplish everything he'd like to in office? Of course not. No president does. So for those who view this guy as a radical anarchist, fear not. We all know that even if that was his true agenda (which it clearly isn't if you've ever listened to him or read his works at length), we wound only end up with a watered down version of his "libertarian-anarchy."
Anyway, OffHeGoes, your vote?
Don't know yet, I don't know enough about Ron Paul to make a vote.
i find it humorous and ironic that ron paul, the man the republicans dismissed as a "kook" and was not allowed to be heard in debates not two years ago is now making headway... if we pull out of this recession and people get back to work nobody that the gop runs would beat obama.
He really can't be ignored any longer. The party establishment still refuses to acknowledge him, as well as the most major players of the right wing mainstream media.
The best example of this is on Jon Stewart's latest interview with Bill O'Reilly. He asks Bill where was the backing of Ron Paul, since he's been opposed to the out of control spending in Washington for decades? Bill's response, "Peter Paul? You mean like Almond Joy? I don't like Mounds."
i find it humorous and ironic that ron paul, the man the republicans dismissed as a "kook" and was not allowed to be heard in debates not two years ago is now making headway... if we pull out of this recession and people get back to work nobody that the gop runs would beat obama.
He really can't be ignored any longer. The party establishment still refuses to acknowledge him, as well as the most major players of the right wing mainstream media.
The best example of this is on Jon Stewart's latest interview with Bill O'Reilly. He asks Bill where was the backing of Ron Paul, since he's been opposed to the out of control spending in Washington for decades? Bill's response, "Peter Paul? You mean like Almond Joy? I don't like Mounds."
What a dick.
yeah i expect nothing less from o'reilly. paul really can't be ignored any longer. and my gut feeling tells me that if the gop continues to disrespect him and ignore him they are cutting off their own heads in the next presidential campaign. who are they gonna run, palin? romney? jindal already dropped out.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i find it humorous and ironic that ron paul, the man the republicans dismissed as a "kook" and was not allowed to be heard in debates not two years ago is now making headway... if we pull out of this recession and people get back to work nobody that the gop runs would beat obama.
He really can't be ignored any longer. The party establishment still refuses to acknowledge him, as well as the most major players of the right wing mainstream media.
The best example of this is on Jon Stewart's latest interview with Bill O'Reilly. He asks Bill where was the backing of Ron Paul, since he's been opposed to the out of control spending in Washington for decades? Bill's response, "Peter Paul? You mean like Almond Joy? I don't like Mounds."
What a dick.
yeah i expect nothing less from o'reilly. paul really can't be ignored any longer. and my gut feeling tells me that if the gop continues to disrespect him and ignore him they are cutting off their own heads in the next presidential campaign. who are they gonna run, palin? romney? jindal already dropped out.
Liberals ought to get behind Ron Paul if not out of principle, for strategy. First off, the thought of him becoming president should be infinitely less scary than a Sarah Palin or John McCain. Also, his ideas clearly split the right-leaning into (2) separate camps-- the Libertarian / constitutionalists and the Neo-Cons. Will Neo-Cons support Paul's non-interventionist foreign policy? Legalization of Marijuana and possibly other drugs? No staunch position against gays getting married?
The TEA Party might be the best thing that ever happens for the political left-- If they do form a viable third party, who will lose more votes? The Democrats or the Republicans.
as for the second point, what does anyone's age have to do with anything?? most change and progress comes from young people with young minds that see the way things could be instead of dwelling on how bad things are. the former is for the young, the latter is what the old do...
That is great to have ideas and energy but most young 20-somethings have no idea how the world really works, they just know what their professors' political beliefs are and what the frat house wants to drink tonight.
Get a real job, a house, a family, pay bills, get a real paycheck. Then see if you feel the same way. Until then, until you actually have those things stop pretending your "beliefs" reflect the general consensus.
Thank you, unsung. My point, exactly! What is it you own right now, possibly a car? do you have children? experience 20 more years of life and get back to me..
I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me...GUARANTEED!
as for the second point, what does anyone's age have to do with anything?? most change and progress comes from young people with young minds that see the way things could be instead of dwelling on how bad things are. the former is for the young, the latter is what the old do...
That is great to have ideas and energy but most young 20-somethings have no idea how the world really works, they just know what their professors' political beliefs are and what the frat house wants to drink tonight.
Get a real job, a house, a family, pay bills, get a real paycheck. Then see if you feel the same way. Until then, until you actually have those things stop pretending your "beliefs" reflect the general consensus.
Thank you, unsung. My point, exactly! What is it you own right now, possibly a car? do you have children? experience 20 more years of life and get back to me..
nice way to marginalize the younger generation there..or are you asking me what i have?
unsung and yamahita, do you work with high school kids? i do everyday and you would be surprised how switched on and up to speed on current affairs they are. i would not confuse their lack of years with a lack of knowledge. i see plenty of people on here more out of touch than a lot of the teens i see everyday.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Until they hold jobs and actually see their money being taken out of their checks they are not in touch. Until then they are not in reality.
Until they hold jobs and actually see their money being taken out of their checks they are not in touch. Until then they are not in reality.
by your rationale a 16 year old working at mcdonalds and earning a paycheck is in reality and knows how the world works, which completely contradicts your earlier statement. so which is it??
taxes are a part of life and as members of a society we have all agreed that they are necessary. you get a paycheck, you pay taxes. end of story. if you don't want to pay your taxes then don't and you can go livein the woods somewhere like eric rudolph of ted kaczinski, and when you get busted for not paying your taxes don't take a public defender because i wouldn't want to have to pay for your legal defense with MY tax dollars...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Where is HIS proof that he is American? He should be PROUD to show off his birth certificate if he was actually born here..
He's shown his Hawaii birth certificate already. It was certified as authentic by the Republican governor of Hawaii, AND there are even birth announcements from newspapers at the time.
This conspiracy theory has been debunked over and over again, and yet some people still can't let it go.
Please post a site where I can review, thanks
snopes.com and factcheck.org are pretty good for this kind of thing.
The Political Action Committee Obama for America has paid $1,066,691.90 to the Perkins Coie law firm between Oct. 16, 2008 and March 30, 2009 to fight every legal challenge requesting proof of his constitutional eligibility to hold the office of President of the United States. Why? What's he hiding ?
Why wont he show his long form birth certificate ? It's only $10
A certificate of live birth is not the same as a long form birth certificate.
Call me what ever you want,but I think these are real questions and as an american I have a right to know.
The Political Action Committee Obama for America has paid $1,066,691.90 to the Perkins Coie law firm between Oct. 16, 2008 and March 30, 2009 to fight every legal challenge requesting proof of his constitutional eligibility to hold the office of President of the United States. Why? What's he hiding ?
Why wont he show his long form birth certificate ? It's only $10
A certificate of live birth is not the same as a long form birth certificate.
Call me what ever you want,but I think these are real questions and as an american I have a right to know.
It has been verified by the Hawaii State Department of Health. After seeing his Certification of Live Birth and announcement in the Honolulu Star Bulletin it seems you don't have doubt that he is a citizen. But you are blindly fishing for some kind of conspiracy. ("Why? What's he hiding ?")
Perhaps he does it for political purposes. One might speculate that perhaps his mother listed him as Muslim. But he may simply not wish to give credence to the issue. It makes otherwise reasonable people such as yourself or the Tea Bag movement come across as objects for mockery.
Here's some discussion from the Wall Street Journal (a conservative source) on this.
• “Why has Obama spent X dollars defending himself against lawsuits when he could just produce the original birth certificate and make the whole thing go away?” X varies, just in our emails of the past 24 hours, from “thousands” to “almost a million”; one reader set the amount at “$950,000.” As far as we know, all these estimates have a common source: thin air.
In any case, while this question sounds eminently reasonable, in fact it betrays a complete lack of understanding of the legal process. The “defense” against these frivolous lawsuits has consisted of filing a motion for summary judgment, which in every case has been granted.
In a motion for summary judgment, a defendant in a lawsuit asks the judge to dismiss the case as meritless before trial. In considering whether to grant such a motion, the judge is obliged to treat all facts in dispute as if they were resolved in the plaintiff’s favor. He may dismiss the case only if he finds it is without merit as a matter of law. The defendant’s introduction of additional factual evidence into the record would make the process more costly and time-consuming, not less.
The production of a 1961 birth certificate would make these lawsuits “go away” only if one assumes that it would persuade the plaintiffs to withdraw their claims, or not to file them in the first place. This assumption is completely fanciful. As we noted yesterday, birthers “claim without basis that today’s birth certificate is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis that yesterday’s is as well.” Sure enough, an outfit styling itself the Western Center for Journalism has produced what purports to be a report from “an investigator” commissioned by “a retired CIA officer”--neither of them has a name--arguing that the original birth certificate might be fraudulent.
Noblesville 6/22/2003 St. Louis 5/4/2010 East Troy 9/4/2011
Cleveland 5/20/2006 Columbus 5/6/2010 Chicago 7/19/2013
Cincinnatti 6/24/2006 Noblesville 5/7/2010. Buffalo 10/12/2013
Lollapalooza 8/5/2007 Mountain View 10/23/2010 Cincinnatti 10/1/2014
Washington D.C. 6/22/2008 Mountain View 10/24/2010 St. Louis 10/3/2014
Chicago 8/22/2008(EV Solo) St. Louis 7/1/2011 (EV Solo) St. Paul 10/19/2014
Kansas City 5/3/2010 East Troy 9/3/2011 Milwaukee 10/20/2014
Hampton 4/18/2016 Columbia 4/21/2016 Lexington 4/26/2016
NYC 5/2/2016
Until they hold jobs and actually see their money being taken out of their checks they are not in touch. Until then they are not in reality.
Yeah, the 18 year old who goes to school and works a part-time job, who's mom is dying of cancer...yeah he's not living in reality cause he doesn't have a house or kids...he probably doesn't know anything.
Myself, a 23 year old full time worker, who pays for his insurance, paid off his car, pays taxes, votes, rents an apartment, attends community functions, and doesn't want to get married or have children..yeah I don't know shit either right? You can have all the opinions you want and that's ok, but in my eyes your not living in reality cause you don't wear a yellow hat everyday...sounds stupid doesn't it? The second you discard another american citizen's opinon cause of their age is when i stop listening. You know, i know a shitload of people who have real life experience..real life experience is a vast category that doesn't JUST INCLUDE HOW MUCH THE GOVT TAKES OUT IN TAXES. For people who are all about the constitution the entire "all men are created equal" doesn't mean much I guess. I'll vote for obama again but i won't bother saying why cause i'm a dumb kid who doesn't live in reality so why bother.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
For people who are all about the constitution the entire "all men are created equal" doesn't mean much I guess. I'll vote for obama again but i won't bother saying why cause i'm a dumb kid who doesn't live in reality so why bother.
"All men are created equal" is from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.
For people who are all about the constitution the entire "all men are created equal" doesn't mean much I guess. I'll vote for obama again but i won't bother saying why cause i'm a dumb kid who doesn't live in reality so why bother.
"All men are created equal" is from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.
But your use of capital letters impresses me.
i realized this after typing it...and made an error so i guess my whole argument is now moot. so when will i be able to see your guidelines for when a young person's view is officially considered legitimate?
Comments
Don't know yet, I don't know enough about Ron Paul to make a vote.
He really can't be ignored any longer. The party establishment still refuses to acknowledge him, as well as the most major players of the right wing mainstream media.
The best example of this is on Jon Stewart's latest interview with Bill O'Reilly. He asks Bill where was the backing of Ron Paul, since he's been opposed to the out of control spending in Washington for decades? Bill's response, "Peter Paul? You mean like Almond Joy? I don't like Mounds."
What a dick.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Liberals ought to get behind Ron Paul if not out of principle, for strategy. First off, the thought of him becoming president should be infinitely less scary than a Sarah Palin or John McCain. Also, his ideas clearly split the right-leaning into (2) separate camps-- the Libertarian / constitutionalists and the Neo-Cons. Will Neo-Cons support Paul's non-interventionist foreign policy? Legalization of Marijuana and possibly other drugs? No staunch position against gays getting married?
The TEA Party might be the best thing that ever happens for the political left-- If they do form a viable third party, who will lose more votes? The Democrats or the Republicans.
I think the Republicans.
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org
unsung and yamahita, do you work with high school kids? i do everyday and you would be surprised how switched on and up to speed on current affairs they are. i would not confuse their lack of years with a lack of knowledge. i see plenty of people on here more out of touch than a lot of the teens i see everyday.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
taxes are a part of life and as members of a society we have all agreed that they are necessary. you get a paycheck, you pay taxes. end of story. if you don't want to pay your taxes then don't and you can go livein the woods somewhere like eric rudolph of ted kaczinski, and when you get busted for not paying your taxes don't take a public defender because i wouldn't want to have to pay for your legal defense with MY tax dollars...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
snopes.com and factcheck.org are pretty good for this kind of thing.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... ficate.asp
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html
Why wont he show his long form birth certificate ? It's only $10
A certificate of live birth is not the same as a long form birth certificate.
Call me what ever you want,but I think these are real questions and as an american I have a right to know.
It has been verified by the Hawaii State Department of Health. After seeing his Certification of Live Birth and announcement in the Honolulu Star Bulletin it seems you don't have doubt that he is a citizen. But you are blindly fishing for some kind of conspiracy. ("Why? What's he hiding ?")
Perhaps he does it for political purposes. One might speculate that perhaps his mother listed him as Muslim. But he may simply not wish to give credence to the issue. It makes otherwise reasonable people such as yourself or the Tea Bag movement come across as objects for mockery.
Here's some discussion from the Wall Street Journal (a conservative source) on this.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 46658.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 39634.html
• “Why has Obama spent X dollars defending himself against lawsuits when he could just produce the original birth certificate and make the whole thing go away?” X varies, just in our emails of the past 24 hours, from “thousands” to “almost a million”; one reader set the amount at “$950,000.” As far as we know, all these estimates have a common source: thin air.
In any case, while this question sounds eminently reasonable, in fact it betrays a complete lack of understanding of the legal process. The “defense” against these frivolous lawsuits has consisted of filing a motion for summary judgment, which in every case has been granted.
In a motion for summary judgment, a defendant in a lawsuit asks the judge to dismiss the case as meritless before trial. In considering whether to grant such a motion, the judge is obliged to treat all facts in dispute as if they were resolved in the plaintiff’s favor. He may dismiss the case only if he finds it is without merit as a matter of law. The defendant’s introduction of additional factual evidence into the record would make the process more costly and time-consuming, not less.
The production of a 1961 birth certificate would make these lawsuits “go away” only if one assumes that it would persuade the plaintiffs to withdraw their claims, or not to file them in the first place. This assumption is completely fanciful. As we noted yesterday, birthers “claim without basis that today’s birth certificate is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis that yesterday’s is as well.” Sure enough, an outfit styling itself the Western Center for Journalism has produced what purports to be a report from “an investigator” commissioned by “a retired CIA officer”--neither of them has a name--arguing that the original birth certificate might be fraudulent.
Cleveland 5/20/2006 Columbus 5/6/2010 Chicago 7/19/2013
Cincinnatti 6/24/2006 Noblesville 5/7/2010. Buffalo 10/12/2013
Lollapalooza 8/5/2007 Mountain View 10/23/2010 Cincinnatti 10/1/2014
Washington D.C. 6/22/2008 Mountain View 10/24/2010 St. Louis 10/3/2014
Chicago 8/22/2008(EV Solo) St. Louis 7/1/2011 (EV Solo) St. Paul 10/19/2014
Kansas City 5/3/2010 East Troy 9/3/2011 Milwaukee 10/20/2014
Hampton 4/18/2016 Columbia 4/21/2016 Lexington 4/26/2016
NYC 5/2/2016
now thats some funny stuff.
Godfather.
Yeah, the 18 year old who goes to school and works a part-time job, who's mom is dying of cancer...yeah he's not living in reality cause he doesn't have a house or kids...he probably doesn't know anything.
Myself, a 23 year old full time worker, who pays for his insurance, paid off his car, pays taxes, votes, rents an apartment, attends community functions, and doesn't want to get married or have children..yeah I don't know shit either right? You can have all the opinions you want and that's ok, but in my eyes your not living in reality cause you don't wear a yellow hat everyday...sounds stupid doesn't it? The second you discard another american citizen's opinon cause of their age is when i stop listening. You know, i know a shitload of people who have real life experience..real life experience is a vast category that doesn't JUST INCLUDE HOW MUCH THE GOVT TAKES OUT IN TAXES. For people who are all about the constitution the entire "all men are created equal" doesn't mean much I guess. I'll vote for obama again but i won't bother saying why cause i'm a dumb kid who doesn't live in reality so why bother.
"All men are created equal" is from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.
But your use of capital letters impresses me.
i realized this after typing it...and made an error so i guess my whole argument is now moot. so when will i be able to see your guidelines for when a young person's view is officially considered legitimate?