Okla. tea parties and lawmakers envision militia
gimmesometruth27
St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
i can't agree that arming angry people against the federal government is a smart thing to do, but if oklahoma wants to regress 100 years go ahead...just don't call in the fbi, fema, or any other government authority if the shit hits the fan....
sounds like a major case of paranoia, fear, and a little sour grapes to me....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_ ... ty_militia
By SEAN MURPHY and TIM TALLEY, Associated Press Writers Sean Murphy And Tim Talley, Associated Press Writers – 1 hr 55 mins ago
OKLAHOMA CITY – Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.
Tea party movement leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.
"Is it scary? It sure is," said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"
Thus far, the discussions have been exploratory. Even the proponents say they don't know how an armed force would be organized nor how a state-based militia could block federal mandates. Critics also asserted that the force could inflame extremism, and that the National Guard already provides for the state's military needs.
"Have they heard of the Oklahoma City bombing?" said Joseph Thai, a constitutional law professor at the University of Oklahoma. The state observes the 15th anniversary of the anti-government attack on Monday. Such actions could "throw fuel in the fire of radicals," he said.
But the militia talks reflect the frustration of some grass roots groups seeking new ways of fighting recent federal initiatives, such as the health reform plan, which requires all citizens to have health insurance. Over the last year, tea party groups across the country have staged rallies and pressured politicians to protest big government and demand reduced public spending.
In strongly conservative states like Oklahoma, some legislators have also discussed further action to fight federal policies, such as state legislation and lawsuits.
State Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, a Republican candidate for governor who has appealed for tea party support, said supporters of a state militia have talked to him, and that he believes the citizen unit would be authorized under the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
The founding fathers "were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren't even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other," Brogdon said. "The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government."
Another lawmaker, state Rep. Charles Key, R-Oklahoma City, said he believes there's a good chance of introducing legislation for a state-authorized militia next year.
Tea party leader J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea began soliciting interest in a state militia through his newsletter under the subject "Buy more guns, more bullets."
"It's not a far-right crazy plan or anything like that," Berry said. "This would be done with the full cooperation of the state Legislature."
State militias clearly are constitutionally authorized, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and an expert on the Second Amendment. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.
Some conservative legislators in Oklahoma say talk of a militia, which would be privately recruited, armed and trained, goes too far.
"If the intent is to create a militia for disaster relief, we have the National Guard," said Sen. Steve Russell, R-Oklahoma City, a retired Army lieutenant colonel. "Anything beyond that purpose should be viewed with great concern and caution."
Democratic Gov. Brad Henry's communications director Paul Sund also discounted the militia discussion, saying the National Guard handles state emergencies and security.
Federal authorities say that radical militia groups have not emerged in Oklahoma, unlike many other states, in part because of the legacy of the Oklahoma City bombing. On April 19, 1995, an anti-government conspiracy led by Army veteran Tim McVeigh exploded a truckbomb outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, killing 168 people.
Last month, FBI agents conducted a raid on the Hutaree militia group in southern Michigan and accused members of plotting to kill law enforcement officers.
sounds like a major case of paranoia, fear, and a little sour grapes to me....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_ ... ty_militia
By SEAN MURPHY and TIM TALLEY, Associated Press Writers Sean Murphy And Tim Talley, Associated Press Writers – 1 hr 55 mins ago
OKLAHOMA CITY – Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.
Tea party movement leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.
"Is it scary? It sure is," said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"
Thus far, the discussions have been exploratory. Even the proponents say they don't know how an armed force would be organized nor how a state-based militia could block federal mandates. Critics also asserted that the force could inflame extremism, and that the National Guard already provides for the state's military needs.
"Have they heard of the Oklahoma City bombing?" said Joseph Thai, a constitutional law professor at the University of Oklahoma. The state observes the 15th anniversary of the anti-government attack on Monday. Such actions could "throw fuel in the fire of radicals," he said.
But the militia talks reflect the frustration of some grass roots groups seeking new ways of fighting recent federal initiatives, such as the health reform plan, which requires all citizens to have health insurance. Over the last year, tea party groups across the country have staged rallies and pressured politicians to protest big government and demand reduced public spending.
In strongly conservative states like Oklahoma, some legislators have also discussed further action to fight federal policies, such as state legislation and lawsuits.
State Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, a Republican candidate for governor who has appealed for tea party support, said supporters of a state militia have talked to him, and that he believes the citizen unit would be authorized under the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
The founding fathers "were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren't even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other," Brogdon said. "The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government."
Another lawmaker, state Rep. Charles Key, R-Oklahoma City, said he believes there's a good chance of introducing legislation for a state-authorized militia next year.
Tea party leader J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea began soliciting interest in a state militia through his newsletter under the subject "Buy more guns, more bullets."
"It's not a far-right crazy plan or anything like that," Berry said. "This would be done with the full cooperation of the state Legislature."
State militias clearly are constitutionally authorized, but have not been used in recent times, said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and an expert on the Second Amendment. "Whether someone should get a militia to go toe-to-toe with the federal government ... now, that strikes me as kind of silly," he said.
Some conservative legislators in Oklahoma say talk of a militia, which would be privately recruited, armed and trained, goes too far.
"If the intent is to create a militia for disaster relief, we have the National Guard," said Sen. Steve Russell, R-Oklahoma City, a retired Army lieutenant colonel. "Anything beyond that purpose should be viewed with great concern and caution."
Democratic Gov. Brad Henry's communications director Paul Sund also discounted the militia discussion, saying the National Guard handles state emergencies and security.
Federal authorities say that radical militia groups have not emerged in Oklahoma, unlike many other states, in part because of the legacy of the Oklahoma City bombing. On April 19, 1995, an anti-government conspiracy led by Army veteran Tim McVeigh exploded a truckbomb outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, killing 168 people.
Last month, FBI agents conducted a raid on the Hutaree militia group in southern Michigan and accused members of plotting to kill law enforcement officers.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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And people wonder why our nation is a cluster-f'... our national IQ and common sense level is about that of a 13yr old, functional retard.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
So do you opose voting? What about free speach? You want change, but you don't want anyone to speak up when they are pissed? We vote people who we believe to be the most qualified for the job, they tell us things, and they just continue to do the same thing? Talk about a backwards society. This is an action by people, not the government, which makes me listen with a refreshed sence of hope. Violence should not be the answer and am in no way advocating it (needed to bring this out because I know some would love to just continue to spew hate, this time at me).
Question: How come people's rights are of the utmost importance, that is till you talk about our country.
Go first ammendment! And remember, there are crazy people on all sides!
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
"Extreme leftest (sic)"? Really? Like who?
I don't see people on the left advocating killing police officers, government employees, or opposition politicians.
i just do not think it is a good idea to arm angry people. and stupid, redneck, playing army in the backwoods people at that....and if oklahoma is going to consider doing so, then they deserve whatever the repercussions are.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
And I fail to see what that would really accomplish anyway. You have a national guard, dont you?
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
actually i do, and i do not see what my location has to do with anything in this thread, so what are you talking about? care to contribute to the discussion or just post random irrelevent questions??
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i will go out on a limb ... like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out ... hahaha and say for the most part - i agree with everything you say ...
many people want to dismiss this party for a multitude of reasons some reasonable some not so reasonable however, the crux of the issue is still the same ... the current makeover of gov't is the same as previous ones whereby they no longer work to serve the people but rather large corporations ...
people SHOULD be holding gov't accountable and be pissed ... to expect change simply through some conventional manner is simply not going to do anything ... although i by no means favour an armed or violent response - i do believe a revolution of sorts has to happen ... at the very least - these tea partiers are active ... they may not be well-informed on many issues but they are doing something about it ...
i believe there are many here who voted for obama hoping he would fix everything ... he can't ... only the people can ...
Yeah... I can completely understand organizing people against government overreaching... protest, campaign to get people who think like you elected/other voted out, etc etc etc...
But, armed militias? It goes back to this:
Armed militias aren't going to take on the police, FBI, ATF, Nat'l Guard, US Military, etc... the only thing they can do is to use force, or the threat of force to try to intimidate other citizens into siding with them. Talk about a worthless approach.
For the most these people are nothing more than idiots who romanticize about play war in the woods and have seem movies like Red Dawn way too many times. I dressed up in army gear and played war with friends when I was 10 years old, but unlike these people, I grew up.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
this part reminds me of that scene in the movie Animal House...
Otter: "This requires a really stupid and futile gesture be done on somebody's part."
Bluto: "Yeah, and we're just the guys to do it!"
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
who knows....some people will stand and fight and some will bow and follow, the people that stand and fight
make and change history, then there are those that will complain but not do anything one way or another to
help what they believe to be right.
Godfather.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I think so. Thoughts?
Insurgents is more like it...
Even though it's changed meanings over the last decade, I still think of terrorists as people, who, well use terror and big acts, to kill people or to make their point.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Fuck 'em
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
just a thought.
Godfather.
and to compare them to the founding fathers is simply stupid...
I think these teabaggers are blinded by hate for Obama and they hate America...
damn, I can't wait until these out of work fuckheads find jobs...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
It is the same principle by which Ed was able to stand on stage and have the right to speak out against our invasion of Iraq. I happen to agree with him, but it was the same minute men and american revolutionaries that fought to provide us with that very right. AND you are right, we are a VERY young country and culture. The people we are fighting now have been around for millennia, which makes me feel we were kind of silly to go to headlong into war with these zealots, first in Iraq, and now Afghanistan. Someone posted you cannot fight a war with an idea (or tactic). How will we ever get out? Back to the OP- I do not believe that state run militias are an answer to anything and cannot do anything positive anywhere.
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
and to compare them to the founding fathers is simply stupid...OOOOOOOO REALLY ?
like I said I'm not one one side or the other, but just for shit's and giggles why don't you do a little history
on the founding father's...you know some of the guy's that told the queen and her tax's to piss up a rope,
or how about the SKULL AND BONES or the FREE MASONS or the KKK, I'll bet you find our founding father's knee deep in the secret society kimshi.....the real stuff this country was founded on........well I feel better now that I got that off my chest.....one more thing "I can't wait until these out of work fuckheads find jobs.."
count your blessing's my friend, if you are working be thankful.
Godfather.
you ask OOOOOOOOOO REALLY....I say YES, REALLY...now if we had a Queen to tell to piss up a rope, I'd understand...as it stands we don't...and your secret society point makes no sense to me...
and I do count my blessings every day...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
it is my contention that the combination of political defeat and the recent empowerment of african americans through the election of barack obama is fueling this movement...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Interesting about the civil war, there was an article on CNN the other day about this very subject...
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/12/w ... errorists/
Definitely food for thought.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
but as far as these guy's go what about federal law don't it over ride state law ?
Godfather.
The tea-party and these militias merely disagree with government policy, have all the freedoms in the world and are not the victim of tyranny by any means.
There is no commonality between the two in any reason or fact.
As for state and federal laws, we live in a federalist state. Unless we want to back to civil war, the colony setup or breaking the union apart - federalism is necessary - and yes, even if you disagree with some of the laws and policies.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis