Tea Baggers who want smaller gov and less gov spending....

inmytree

oh no, some one played the race card...oh goodness...better tell Mickey Steele that no likes that card anymore...

seriously, folks are going to play all kinds of cards, often just to piss others off...you know, like bushy and his supporters liked to play the "hate-America" card on a regular basis...

I do find it interesting how upset some get when the race card is played...you know, since the race card is silly and that all teabaggers are not racist...thus, the use of the race card should not be a big deal....

WaveCameCrashin

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

:lolno: :lolno:
Oh your so cool. :roll:

When you can't agree you smear the other person.
And Im even sicker of this crap. and the where were you when ? What damn difference does it make where some of us were? It's better late than never that Americans are waking up. Not only that Obama is spending and doing things that make bush look like a conservative and I don't hear a damn word about it from the left,at least not on this board. All you leftist,Progressives are being very hypocritical when it comes to political dissent.Its all good until you dissagree on the issues. We are in a place right now and are more divided than ever before,and I truly believe that this is what Obama is trying to do to this country.

would YOU have preferred this instead???


or this?


or this??

I really don't care anymore. it's been said on here many times that you are going to have a few nuts no matter what party or grass movment you attend,and you seem to forget about the signs that were being carried about bush during all the anti war protest.And what about that statment that J.Kerry made on Bill Mahr's show about killing Bush ? Did you forget about that one ?

http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death ... sts-i.html

inmytree

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

or this??

best cartoon ever...

Breadlines not Bailouts...lay off my kids teacher...no medicare for mom...

polaris_x

prfctlefts wrote:

I will put it this way when I think of a liberal or a left leaning individual this is what enters my mind.
> Tax payer funded abortion
2. supports bigger Gov or welfare state
3. gun control in other words doesn't like the 2nd amendment
4. politicle correctness
4. anti religion in the public sector
5. opposition to full private property rights
6.Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document.
7.income redistribution through progressive taxation

I could keep going but I think you get my point.

As far as D.Kucinich goes yeah he's definitly far left in my book, open boarders ( co sponser of HR 500),progressive taxaton But he does support the decriminilzation of marjuana so that's a good thing even though I personally don't smoke anymore,but we wasting to much money on the war on drugs when it comes to herb.

1. lefties are pro-choice ... not sure if that is your point or the fact there are scenarios where it's funded by gov't ... if it's the former ... then yes ... a lefty is pro-choice typically and believes in reproductive rights ...
2. suport is for greater gov't involvement in matters that affect the public ... we don't want bigger gov't for the sake of big gov't ... for example - spending in military is well above what a lefty would want ... obama does not conform in this regard ... also, lefties would be against bailouts of most corporations ... again non-conforming
3. gun control in general is a lefty attribute ... i don't think it's necessarily against the 2nd amendment - just simply that there is needs to be regulations in place and enforced to ensure public safety ...
4. uhhh ... ok!?
4. if america is a non-secular country ... religion shouldn't have a role in the public policy ... not sure how Obama fits in here as every politician uses god within their agenda ...
5. this also is not a black and white issue ... should the grand canyon be privatized? ... not really sure what this is about to be honest ... need clarification
6. also not sure what this means ... as a lefty - i think it's a pretty good piece of writing ... too bad it isn't followed much
7. yes ... lefties generally believe in progressive tax measures ...

here are some key points of lefties that obama does not conform:

1. environment - we don't need to get into the details about climate change but his opening up for more drilling gives him a failing grade
2. social programs such as education and health care - although he has put thru his health care bill ... it is nowhwere near the kind of socialized system most lefties believe in ...
3. military/war - huge failing grade
4. foreign policy - continued support of israel is not a lefty trait

i believe this points are more relevant than the ones you mentioned ... remember - in any index that ranks socialist qualities of a country ... america is nowhere near the top ... most voters in the country are somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum based on key indicators ...

markin ball

prfctlefts wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Dude Obama is not a centrist Ok? I don't know what the hell you are smoking up there. I know you guys get good bud up there but DAMN.. Are you even paying attention to all things that he's done just in the last year.

:roll:
I know what left means..
I really think you need to check your political compass when it comes to left and right. I will submit to you that yes both parties are corrupt,but the dems are in control right now. That's wahy we have to get real conservatives back in both houses and get rid of the J. Mcains and the LIndsey Ghrams of the republican party.

obama is NOT left ... Kucinich would be classified as left ... and he's been pretty much against most of what Obama has done and is doing ...

tell me what left means to you ...

I will put it this way when I think of a liberal or a left leaning individual this is what enters my mind.
> Tax payer funded abortion
2. supports bigger Gov or welfare state
3. gun control in other words doesn't like the 2nd amendment
4. politicle correctness
4. anti religion in the public sector
5. opposition to full private property rights
6.Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document.
7.income redistribution through progressive taxation

I could keep going but I think you get my point.

As far as D.Kucinich goes yeah he's definitly far left in my book, open boarders ( co sponser of HR 500),progressive taxaton But he does support the decriminilzation of marjuana so that's a good thing even though I personally don't smoke anymore,but we wasting to much money on the war on drugs when it comes to herb.

I would be called "liberal" by many of my friends and family. My opinions are as such:

I don't care much for abortions at all. I am not pro-abortion in any way, but it is a very nuanced issue and I believe it needs a nuanced approach.

I aboslutely do not want an overbloated, wasteful governement however I want a government capable enough to properly handle public lands, military, public safety, etc. and I guess the difficult thing is where do you draw the line. There will be abuses in any system so I would call on the citizens to limit such abuses by being smart enough to vote these douchebags out.

Gun control. I believe people kill people, not guns, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Should we all be allowed to have biological weapons in the name of personal freedom? I understand that is an extreme case but like I said, where do we draw the line and who gets to draw it?

Political correctness can have a place however can be abused by those usually who have nothing credible to add.

I am certainly anti-religion in the public sector. I don't want the government advertising a belief system or telling me what to believe. I beleive in freedom.

Property rights are great!

I do think the constitution is living, breathing document as it should be ammended in places from time to time. Times change (slavery, women's suffrage, etc.).

The taxation issue is a tough one for me. A flat, or less progressive tax would seem more fair however then us folk with less income couldn't buy as much of the stuff the rich folk produce. There are a lot of sub-issues this would generate but let's just say I'm split on this.

My point. Left and Right labels are bullshit nowadays. Let's make love, not war!

aNiMaL

mb262200 wrote:

Maybe people were thinking that GW would soon be out of office and then there would be change. Huh....guess not.

The people need to stand up to this government sometime, just happens to be now instead of a few years ago. And I don't think it really matters who is in Washington. I'm sure when Obamas time is up the Tea Party will still be around. My question is, how many of these anti tea partiers (liberals, democrats, etc.) are going to join the party when there's a republican in the White House?

Why this government, why now?

I am not at odds with the current administration - not even kinda! This administration did start a war with a country that posed no threat to us. Yes, he is continuing it because even I believe once we were where we were with it, we have to see it through. But, it should have never been started in the first place.

Why would liberals and democrats join a party that strongly affiliates itself with the GOP? Don't ever try to pretend as though the tea baggers are some new thinkers. They are right lock and step with Sarah Palin and the GOP.

Cosmo

prfctlefts wrote:

I will put it this way when I think of a liberal or a left leaning individual this is what enters my mind.
> Tax payer funded abortion
2. supports bigger Gov or welfare state
3. gun control in other words doesn't like the 2nd amendment
4. politicle correctness
4. anti religion in the public sector
5. opposition to full private property rights
6.Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document.
7.income redistribution through progressive taxation

I could keep going but I think you get my point.

...
Labels, when applied to others based on personal prejudices are always characitures and rarely true. This list is, sadly, that norm.
1. Tax Funded Abortions. A typical religious grounded inaccuracy to paint people who do not agree with them as government backed baby killers. Pro-Choice people are 'Pro-Choice', with many of them against the choice of abortion as a birth control. Our preference is that choices made by people prevents the unwanted pregnancy in the first place. But, allows the woman to make the ultimate choice when confronted with this decision... not the state, not the church... not you.
2. Supports bigger Gov or Welfare State. Again... a misperception. Government is required when Private businesses prove that they are unwilling to regulate themselves and put the general public in danger. How short is the memory of people who can't recall names in recent history as AIG, CitiGroup, Bank Of America, Enron? When left on their own to self regulate their business... what happened? Did in affect others outside their businesses?
As far as supporting a welfare state... I don't know about that. What i do know is that part of the character of America I believe in is her belief in the strong taking care of the weak, not trample them underfoot or ignore them.
3. Gun control (in other words doesn't like the 2nd Amendment)... with the latter part being the stupidest thing posted in a while. People support ALL of the Bill Of Rights, including the Second Amendment. The issue is the relative ease it is to obtain a gun, by anyone.
Gun control advocates, in most part, do not want to abolish all gun ownership... just employ reasonable restrictions on the types of weapons and persons who have them. A .50 caliber rifle in the hands of a sociopath is probably not in the best interests of America as a whole.
4. Political Correctness. If you are against this... you are against this. There is no law preventing you from telling that Pollack joke... that nigger joke... that retarded guy joke. So, go ahead... cut loose. Let's hear some.
Unless, of course, you feel it is politically incorrect to say them... but... wouldn't that make you... Politically Correct?
5. Anti religion in the public sector. So, you are telling me you have no problem with passages from the Quoran being read in displayed in out courthouses... Call to prayer in our public schools? That you have no problem with tax dollars going to erect a Star Of David at the City Hall? Right?
6. Opposition to full private property rights. No fucking clue on this one. You need to explain this one.
7. Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document. Because the Constitution IS a living document. Did you think it was meant to be written in stone? To freeze 1776, forever? Read it. Check out the Bill of Rights... Why is there so much emphasis on the quartering of troops in your home? When was the last time the Army needed to take over your house as a barracks? There is a procedure to amend the Constitution... so future generations can apply their environments to to it.
8. Income redistribution through progressive taxation. In come redistribution, like... tax the rich, give to the poor? How is that any different from taxing the middle class to give to the rich?
...

gimmesometruth27

nice post cosmo, you saved me about 15 minutes of typing and replying to all of this...

WaveCameCrashin

Cosmo wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

I will put it this way when I think of a liberal or a left leaning individual this is what enters my mind.
> Tax payer funded abortion
2. supports bigger Gov or welfare state
3. gun control in other words doesn't like the 2nd amendment
4. politicle correctness
4. anti religion in the public sector
5. opposition to full private property rights
6.Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document.
7.income redistribution through progressive taxation

I could keep going but I think you get my point.

...
Labels, when applied to others based on personal prejudices are always characitures and rarely true. This list is, sadly, that norm.
1. Tax Funded Abortions. A typical religious grounded inaccuracy to paint people who do not agree with them as government backed baby killers. Pro-Choice people are 'Pro-Choice', with many of them against the choice of abortion as a birth control. Our preference is that choices made by people prevents the unwanted pregnancy in the first place. But, allows the woman to make the ultimate choice when confronted with this decision... not the state, not the church... not you.
2. Supports bigger Gov or Welfare State. Again... a misperception. Government is required when Private businesses prove that they are unwilling to regulate themselves and put the general public in danger. How short is the memory of people who can't recall names in recent history as AIG, CitiGroup, Bank Of America, Enron? When left on their own to self regulate their business... what happened? Did in affect others outside their businesses?
As far as supporting a welfare state... I don't know about that. What i do know is that part of the character of America I believe in is her belief in the strong taking care of the weak, not trample them underfoot or ignore them.
3. Gun control (in other words doesn't like the 2nd Amendment)... with the latter part being the stupidest thing posted in a while. People support ALL of the Bill Of Rights, including the Second Amendment. The issue is the relative ease it is to obtain a gun, by anyone.
Gun control advocates, in most part, do not want to abolish all gun ownership... just employ reasonable restrictions on the types of weapons and persons who have them. A .50 caliber rifle in the hands of a sociopath is probably not in the best interests of America as a whole.
4. Political Correctness. If you are against this... you are against this. There is no law preventing you from telling that Pollack joke... that nigger joke... that retarded guy joke. So, go ahead... cut loose. Let's hear some.
Unless, of course, you feel it is politically incorrect to say them... but... wouldn't that make you... Politically Correct?
5. Anti religion in the public sector. So, you are telling me you have no problem with passages from the Quoran being read in displayed in out courthouses... Call to prayer in our public schools? That you have no problem with tax dollars going to erect a Star Of David at the City Hall? Right?
6. Opposition to full private property rights. No fucking clue on this one. You need to explain this one.
7. Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document. Because the Constitution IS a living document. Did you think it was meant to be written in stone? To freeze 1776, forever? Read it. Check out the Bill of Rights... Why is there so much emphasis on the quartering of troops in your home? When was the last time the Army needed to take over your house as a barracks? There is a procedure to amend the Constitution... so future generations can apply their environments to to it.
8. Income redistribution through progressive taxation. In come redistribution, like... tax the rich, give to the poor? How is that any different from taxing the middle class to give to the rich?
...

1. yeah that's the same excuse all of you pro choicers use and I aint buyin it.
2. That's not what Im talking about, I don't have a problem with businesses being regulated when they are doing damage to the country. What I do have a problem with is My tax dollars going to people who can't stop having kids and who are to damn lazy to go out and get a fucking job.
3.Well maybe you don't cosmo but there are pleanty of people on the left that want to ban guns. Im not saying that I think that there shouldn't be in depth background checks or that you should be able to own a RPG.
4.That's not political correctness,Thats bigotry or racist jokes you're talking about. Politicle correctness to me is being afraid that you are going to offend someone when talking about certain concepts,words or phrases.political correctness makes it almost impossible to say or do anything of any substance.
5.Well the Quran would never be displayed in a courthouse because This country was founded on Judeo-Christian phlosophy. So many of you don't even know what the seperation of church and state even means. It has nothing to do with prayer in schools.
6.Eminent domain, Go look it up.
7.Is your lease or car title a living and breathing document ? this idea leaves open just about any interpretation of the Constitution so that it can be an enabler for any policy, any government action. But we can amend it.
8. Okay ? just look at the shape your state is in. Need I say more ?

OnTheEdge

prfctlefts wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

I will put it this way when I think of a liberal or a left leaning individual this is what enters my mind.
> Tax payer funded abortion
2. supports bigger Gov or welfare state
3. gun control in other words doesn't like the 2nd amendment
4. politicle correctness
4. anti religion in the public sector
5. opposition to full private property rights
6.Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document.
7.income redistribution through progressive taxation

I could keep going but I think you get my point.

...
Labels, when applied to others based on personal prejudices are always characitures and rarely true. This list is, sadly, that norm.
1. Tax Funded Abortions. A typical religious grounded inaccuracy to paint people who do not agree with them as government backed baby killers. Pro-Choice people are 'Pro-Choice', with many of them against the choice of abortion as a birth control. Our preference is that choices made by people prevents the unwanted pregnancy in the first place. But, allows the woman to make the ultimate choice when confronted with this decision... not the state, not the church... not you.
2. Supports bigger Gov or Welfare State. Again... a misperception. Government is required when Private businesses prove that they are unwilling to regulate themselves and put the general public in danger. How short is the memory of people who can't recall names in recent history as AIG, CitiGroup, Bank Of America, Enron? When left on their own to self regulate their business... what happened? Did in affect others outside their businesses?
As far as supporting a welfare state... I don't know about that. What i do know is that part of the character of America I believe in is her belief in the strong taking care of the weak, not trample them underfoot or ignore them.
3. Gun control (in other words doesn't like the 2nd Amendment)... with the latter part being the stupidest thing posted in a while. People support ALL of the Bill Of Rights, including the Second Amendment. The issue is the relative ease it is to obtain a gun, by anyone.
Gun control advocates, in most part, do not want to abolish all gun ownership... just employ reasonable restrictions on the types of weapons and persons who have them. A .50 caliber rifle in the hands of a sociopath is probably not in the best interests of America as a whole.
4. Political Correctness. If you are against this... you are against this. There is no law preventing you from telling that Pollack joke... that nigger joke... that retarded guy joke. So, go ahead... cut loose. Let's hear some.
Unless, of course, you feel it is politically incorrect to say them... but... wouldn't that make you... Politically Correct?
5. Anti religion in the public sector. So, you are telling me you have no problem with passages from the Quoran being read in displayed in out courthouses... Call to prayer in our public schools? That you have no problem with tax dollars going to erect a Star Of David at the City Hall? Right?
6. Opposition to full private property rights. No fucking clue on this one. You need to explain this one.
7. Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document. Because the Constitution IS a living document. Did you think it was meant to be written in stone? To freeze 1776, forever? Read it. Check out the Bill of Rights... Why is there so much emphasis on the quartering of troops in your home? When was the last time the Army needed to take over your house as a barracks? There is a procedure to amend the Constitution... so future generations can apply their environments to to it.
8. Income redistribution through progressive taxation. In come redistribution, like... tax the rich, give to the poor? How is that any different from taxing the middle class to give to the rich?
...

1. yeah that's the same excuse all of you pro choicers use and I aint buyin it.
2. That's not what Im talking about, I don't have a problem with businesses being regulated when they are doing damage to the country. What I do have a problem with is My tax dollars going to people who can't stop having kids and who are to damn lazy to go out and get a fucking job.
3.Well maybe you don't cosmo but there are pleanty of people on the left that want to ban guns. Im not saying that I think that there shouldn't be in depth background checks or that you should be able to own a RPG.
4.That's not political correctness,Thats bigotry or racist jokes you're talking about. Politicle correctness to me is being afraid that you are going to offend someone when talking about certain concepts,words or phrases.political correctness makes it almost impossible to say or do anything of any substance.
5.Well the Quran would never be displayed in a courthouse because This country was founded on Judeo-Christian phlosophy. So many of you don't even know what the seperation of church and state even means. It has nothing to do with prayer in schools.
6.Eminent domain, Go look it up.
7.Is your lease or car title a living and breathing document ? this idea leaves open just about any interpretation of the Constitution so that it can be an enabler for any policy, any government action. But we can amend it.
8. Okay ? just look at the shape your state is in. Need I say more ?

Well said prfctleft.......+1

Flagg

prfctlefts wrote:

I will put it this way when I think of a liberal or a left leaning individual this is what enters my mind.
> Tax payer funded abortion
2. supports bigger Gov or welfare state
3. gun control in other words doesn't like the 2nd amendment
4. politicle correctness
4. anti religion in the public sector
5. opposition to full private property rights
6.Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document.
7.income redistribution through progressive taxation

I could keep going but I think you get my point.

As far as D.Kucinich goes yeah he's definitly far left in my book, open boarders ( co sponser of HR 500),progressive taxaton But he does support the decriminilzation of marjuana so that's a good thing even though I personally don't smoke anymore,but we wasting to much money on the war on drugs when it comes to herb.

I want to take a shot at these and then you guys can label me. I think I fall center of the road on a lot of stuff.

1. I am Pro-Choice, but I don't really agree with tax payer funded abortion, except in certain cases like rape, threat of death to the mother, etc. That being said, I personally don't like them. I wouldn't recommend one to my wife or daughter. But I don't believe in forcing my belief system on the rest of the country either. I would rather spend money educating people how to avoid unwanted pregnancies or to help out with adoptions, but the final choice belongs to the woman in question.

2. Not sure what you mean by bigger government. The size of government has been growing since its inception right? And if we didn't have government intervention in business, then we would still have lead in our paint and who knows what in our food (if we don't already). Businesses are about making money and not kept in some kind of check, who knows how far they will go to make that bottom line. I think we've all seen what happens when you take the reins off and try to let the "free market" dictate things. Welfare state? My personal belief is that the government should use tax dollars to assist people who need it, to a point. I got laid off back in 2003. I was out of work for 6 months. I am not a bum, but I am glad as hell I had unemployment to fall back on until I was able to get another job. So we shouldn't do that? Or we shouldn't do it perpetually?

3. Guns. OK, to me this is like a lot of other issues. I have no problem with people owning guns. I do think the line should be drawn somewhere though and assault rifles and above makes sense to me. Does anyone really need an M16 or and AK47? I do not own a gun and probably never will. But if my neighbor wants 5 handguns and a couple of shotguns and some rifles (he's a big hunter) then more power to him. Personally I think it is too late to do anything about this. You can't just take away something people have been used to having for the last couple of hundred years. I think I would have preferred that we turned out like people in Europe or Canada where handguns have always been forbidden for the most part and other guns are heavily regulated. I mean, they simply do not have the gun violence we do. But like I said, I think we would never be able to do that now. I do think it is ridiculous that a lot of my friends thing Obama is coming to take their guns away. No he isn't.

4. I think freedom of speech overrides this. I would think a liberal would be against political correctness because the idea infringes upon freedom of speech. I think political correctness serves some purpose, but has been ridiculously overblown. Like when Rahm Emmanuel said a plan was "retarded" and everyone got up in arms (Palin) but then don't when Rush says it. It leads to too many double standards.

5. Absolutely against any and all religion in the public sector. Again, because where do you draw the line? You can't allow one and not allow others. So ban them all. Religion belongs in church and has no place in school, courtrooms, etc.

6. Property Rights - Are you talking eminent domain? Yes, I am against eminent domain. I believe in the sanctity of private property. Not sure if that make me conservative or liberal though. Texas is one of the largest practitioners of eminent domain in the country and we have a virtual Tea Party member as a governor. They even use eminent domain to promote private business down here and I thought it was only for public use. You know why? To promote business. See, some extreme right-wingers get up in arms about eminent domain until Jerry Jones wants to build a football stadium on top of a neighborhood. What? The homeowners don't want to move? Well, hell, that's bad for business so eminent domain their asses out of there. Texas is the most conservative state in the nation and our leaders have no problem eminent domaining some lady off her ranch so a fucking toll road can go through there.

7. Constitution as a living document. It is. This is another one I don't understand. How far back to Tea Partiers want to go? To the original? What about the Bill of Rights? The other amendments? Things change over time and you have to account for that. Look at Prohibition. They thought that was a great idea at the time and then not so much. Slavery, woman's suffrage, etc. What is wrong with updating the rules to reflect current values? If we didn't do that we would still be locking people in stocks for adultery and cutting off hands for stealing.

8. Progressive taxation. I wish we could go to a national sales tax. I will admit, I am no tax expert at all. But what is wrong with a national sales tax? You buy something (maybe food and medicine excluded) and you pay taxes on it. I'd like to hear the right and left argument on that one. Personally I understand we have to pay taxes. Roads, police, farm subsidies, illegal wars, etc. All that stuff takes money.

So, which I am I? Right Wingnut or Leftist Socialist Progressive Liberal?

polaris_x

the thing that prfctlefts points out aren't generally used to define political leanings ... he's focusing on specific issues as opposed to the broader contexts ...

try taking this test ... http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

i'm sure obama falls somewhere in the centre ... my score is:

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62

bottom left grid ...

Jason P

polaris_x wrote:

the thing that prfctlefts points out aren't generally used to define political leanings ... he's focusing on specific issues as opposed to the broader contexts ...

try taking this test ... http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

i'm sure obama falls somewhere in the centre ... my score is:

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62

bottom left grid ...

If this survey is accurate, then I'm almost smack dab in the middle . . . which I feel has a low overall population.

Economic Left/Right: +0.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.87

I asked Coach Green what his opinion was and he responded that I am who he thought I was.

Horos

Always considered myself a moderate, here's my scores:

Economic Left/Right: -3.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.54

I don't consider myself christian, but that's what bothers me about the Teabaggers. They do yet they seem to be unable to follow the teachings of christ.

fife

If the "right" is for full private property rights should they not then be pro-choice as to what a women wants to do with her own property i.e. her body.

also, doesn't many states in America have a death penalty which can be said to be a very, very, very late term government payed for abortion.

i am not saying this just to pick on the right. the problem is that many people don't think before they talk. the "left" does it a lot too.

fife

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.56

so i guess i am like Gandhi.

gimmesometruth27

i just heard that there is a tea rally in my area this week...i can't wait to get my grammatically incorrect protest signs, some tea bags to throw, and my misunderstanding of the issues at hand and load up my new ride and go raise a little hell...YEEEEE HAWWWWW!!!

aerial

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i just heard that there is a tea rally in my area this week...i can't wait to get my grammatically incorrect protest signs, some tea bags to throw, and my misunderstanding of the issues at hand and load up my new ride and go raise a little hell...YEEEEE HAWWWWW!!!

It would be GREAT if you came!

Byrnzie

prfctlefts wrote:

America is not a racist country. If that were the case Obama never would have been elected president in the first place.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -diversity

Black presidents and women MPs do not alone mean equality and justice

Representation is a start, and an important one. But equal opportunities should be pursued above the photo opportunities

Gary Younge
Guardian.co.uk
Sunday 14 March 2010


During a recent playdate, one of my son's white four-year-old friends looked up from Thomas the Tank Engine and pointed out the obvious. "You're black," he told my son. As a parent, these have never felt like particularly teachable moments. Toddlers have plenty of time ahead of them to acquire anxieties, affiliations and attitudes about race. But what they see primarily at their age is not race but difference – a fact that need prompt neither denial nor panic, rebuke nor rectification, unless some derogatory meaning is attached to that difference.

When my son looks to me for a cue, my aim is not to interrogate or chide but to acknowledge and deflect. In the past, I have said: "And what colour are you?" or "And you are white". But this time new material came to mind. "That's right," I told them both. "Just like the president."

This was the long-presaged moment I had been warned to prepare for. My son was born on the weekend that Barack Obama announced his candidacy. Since then, people have been telling me that his presidency would mean great things for my son. Indeed, this was one of Obama's privately stated aims. When his wife Michelle asked what he thought he could accomplish if he became president, he said: "The day I take the oath of office, the world will look at us differently. And millions of kids across this country will look at themselves differently. That alone is something."

True, it is something. But when Thomas is safely back in the station and the moment is over, it is not very much. Because for all the white noise emanating from the Tea Party movement, it has been black Americans who have suffered most since Obama took office. Over the last 14 months the gap between my son's life chances and his friend's have been widening. Unemployment, which has held steady in the rest of the country, is still rising among African Americans and stands at almost twice that of white people. For black teens, unemployment is 43.8%. Meanwhile, foreclosures among African Americans are increasing almost 50% faster than for whites. At this rate, my son will certainly look at himself differently after Obama's presidency – and not in a good way.

This could legitimately be the starting point for an indictment of Obama's presidency. Certainly if a Republican president were behind statistics like this, few liberals would be offering him or her the benefit of the doubt. But like most other criticisms of Obama, particularly regarding the economy, you would have to make the case that another viable contender could have produced better results in the same circumstances. He entered in a moment of freefall. Calling on him to provide a softer landing or a parachute is one thing. Demanding that he suspend the rules of gravity is another.

I think that case could be made, but it is not the argument I'm making here. The fact that the first black president is presiding over deepening racial disparities is just one of the more potent illustrations of how the relationship between identity and electoral representation has become untethered from broader social, political or economic advances and rendered purely symbolic. The corporate model of diversity, which seeks to look different and act the same, has firmly stamped its imprimatur on a kind of politics that owes more to Benetton ads than black advancement. Where we used to seek equal opportunities, we have now become satisfied with photo opportunities – a fact that satisfies some liberals, annoys most conservatives and does little, if anything, for the lives of those whose interests are ostensibly being championed.

"We have more black people in more visible and powerful positions," Angela Davis told me before Obama won the Democratic nomination. "But then we have far more black people who have been pushed down to the bottom of the ladder. When people call for diversity and link it to justice and equality, that's fine. But there's a model of diversity as the difference that makes no difference, the change that brings about no change."

This is not just true for race. India's upper house last week passed a bill to reserve a third of all legislative seats for women. Given that India ranks 99th in the world for female representation, this would make a significant difference to the Indian parliament if it becomes law. The prime minister, Manmohan Singh, described the vote as a "historic step forward toward emancipation of Indian womanhood".

Not necessarily. There is no absolute causal link between gender representation and gender equality. Six of the countries that rank in the top 20 for women's representation are also in the top 20 for per capita rapes. Meanwhile, a global gender gap index, compiled by the World Economic Forum, which assesses how countries distribute resources and opportunities between the sexes, reveals glaring discrepancies. Angola and Nepal, which stand 10th and 17th respectively in terms of representation, are 106th and 110th in terms of equality. Ireland and Sri Lanka, which rank eighth and 16th respectively for equality are 87th and 125th for representation. In 2008, two female party leaders locked horns in elections in Bangladesh, producing the second female prime minster for the country in a decade. According to the WEF, gender inequality in Bangladesh is bad (it is 94th) and getting relatively worse (in 2008 it was 90th).


This does not undermine the campaigns for more diverse political representation but should sharpen the arguments that support them. Representative democracies that exclude large sections of the population are not worthy of the adjective. Nor should the power of symbolism be underrated. Black Americans may have fared worst under Obama, but they are also the most likely to approve of his presidency. A Pew survey released in January showed the highest number of African Americans believing they are better off now than they were five years ago – even though economically they are not.

Moreover, in most cases difference does make a difference. While there may be no black or female experience, evidence suggests that a critical mass of certain groups can have an affect on outcomes. A 2008 study in the Columbia Law Review discovered: "When a white judge sits on a panel with at least one African-American judge, she becomes roughly 20 percentage points more likely to find" a voting rights violation. A 2005 Yale Law Journal study revealed not only that women judges were more likely to find for plaintiffs in sexual harassment cases than men, but that the presence of female judges increased the likelihood that men would find for the plaintiff too.

The fact that five of the 10 countries with the highest female representation are also in the top 10 for gender equality is no mere coincidence. Since the push for parliamentary parity is often part of a larger effort surrounding equal rights, greater representation is more likely to be the product of progressive social change than a precursor to it. The relationship between identity, representation and equality is neither inevitable nor irrelevant, but occasionally contradictory and always complex.

It's comforting to know there are simple words of racial reassurance I can tell my son when he's three. It would be even better to imagine that he would not be in need of that kind of reassurance by the time he reaches 23.

FiveB247x

Firstly, many of the things on this list have no baring on "left" or "right" and are merely done by both Dems and Reps in government. The growth of government, the rise in the budget and deficit to name a few.

In terms of #2, just because someone is for the right to abortion, doesn't mean everyone is for the tax payers funding the costs. That's simply nonsense and you have no proof or statistics that can correlate such details. I've never read or heard a pro-abortion person make such claims in my life...ever.

In terms of #3, "gun-control" can be something as simple as regulation and checks in enforcement of the 2nd amendment.. not simply the notion that no one can bears arms as the law states. This is merely the slippery slope argument - if person x does actions y.. it will automatically lead to action x and z... but it's assumptions and panic, not practice or fact based.

In terms of #4, political correctness is not really a politically leaned item. There's people on both sides who are for or against this.

In terms of #4a, "anti religion in the public sector" - the simple way you termed this item shows how biased the thought is. The notion that people want a separation of church and state or society's freedom to practice religion in the home and not plaster it all over every ounce of viewing site is not "anti-religion". There are plenty of people who are religious who practice and keep it to themselves. The public sector is not a breeding group for the proselytizing of society and transforming it into a theocracy -which is the deep seeded message of all these holy-rollers pushing these agendas.

In terms of #6, the US constitution has been viewed and interrupted a variety of different ways throughout our history and each side (dems/left or reps/right) has never had one standard view of that...so to simply throw this type of message out there is not factual nor historically correct.

In terms of #7, the notion that "redistribution of wealth" is somehow going to be implemented into our nation is simply and utterly ridiculous. This is merely a catch phrase and anyone using it, doesn't understand it's actual meaning in practice. And quite frankly, if push came to shove, it could be more accurately describing the socio-economic patterns of our nations as the rich and elite separation themselves on the backs of the working classes... ie pyramid scheme via corporate america and military industrial complex.

prfctlefts wrote:

I will put it this way when I think of a liberal or a left leaning individual this is what enters my mind.
> Tax payer funded abortion
2. supports bigger Gov or welfare state
3. gun control in other words doesn't like the 2nd amendment
4. politicle correctness
4. anti religion in the public sector
5. opposition to full private property rights
6.Thinks that the constitution is a living and breathing document.
7.income redistribution through progressive taxation

I could keep going but I think you get my point.

As far as D.Kucinich goes yeah he's definitly far left in my book, open boarders ( co sponser of HR 500),progressive taxaton But he does support the decriminilzation of marjuana so that's a good thing even though I personally don't smoke anymore,but we wasting to much money on the war on drugs when it comes to herb.