Illegal alien murders Arizona rancher

Godfather.

unsung wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

relax, obama is tackling immigration next. assuming the republicans don't play ball again, which they probably won't since it is a southern issue and they won't even help their own if it means government involvement and increased taxes to patrol said borders....but yeah, blame the government... :roll:

yeah he is going to offer them amnesty. F-THAT.

ha ha yeah he'll just print up more money to cover them

Godfather.

Pepe Silvia

smithfield uses a lot of undocumented workers, then calls the ins on them when they want to get rid of them. halliburton did, too, with the contract to clean up after katrina. then when they asked to be paid halliburton had them deported

so halliburton had a lot of the work done for free and pays 0 US taxes on that money, what a scam!

Starfall

Godfather. wrote:

blackredyellow wrote:

unsung wrote:

Maybe someday a government that is elected will do something about this, although I doubt one will anytime soon.

So, what is your solution to stop the cross country drug running?

About 20 old F-14's armed to the teeth with old military ordnance and use them to patrol the borders,
the drug lords across the border have a endless supply of fire power and the only way to put a dent
in drug trafficing across the border is to out gun them and a old F-14 would do just that.

Godfather.

Or, you can do what FDR did and repeal Prohibition. It did two very important things -

1. Put liquor back into the normal economy, enabling governments to raise revenue by imposingt taxes and
2. Broke the back of the Chicago gangs that made their money off illicit booze.

I guarantee you if marijuana is decriminalized, it will do similar things for us. Marijuana is 70% of the revenue for these Mexican drug gangs - remove that revenue, and they'll collapse, like the Prohibition era gangs.

PLUS, it will alleviate the huge overcrowding in our prisons AND free up our law enforcement to go after REAL criminals, not the guys who spend all day harmlessly tripping out over pot. And without the drug gangs using undocumented workers to ferry their stuff over the border, illegal immigration will drop.

Besides, decriminalization of marijuana in gonna be on the ballot in California this fall... don't forget to vote.

theoceansmademe

The trouble with this story is that it's speculation.

No one actually witnessed the murder.

I live near D.C. and how the misinformation spread with the sniper.

Pepe Silvia

Starfall wrote:

Or, you can do what FDR did and repeal Prohibition. It did two very important things -

1. Put liquor back into the normal economy, enabling governments to raise revenue by imposingt taxes and
2. Broke the back of the Chicago gangs that made their money off illicit booze.

I guarantee you if marijuana is decriminalized, it will do similar things for us. Marijuana is 70% of the revenue for these Mexican drug gangs - remove that revenue, and they'll collapse, like the Prohibition era gangs.

PLUS, it will alleviate the huge overcrowding in our prisons AND free up our law enforcement to go after REAL criminals, not the guys who spend all day harmlessly tripping out over pot. And without the drug gangs using undocumented workers to ferry their stuff over the border, illegal immigration will drop.

Besides, decriminalization of marijuana in gonna be on the ballot in California this fall... don't forget to vote.

sometimes i think with the amount of money we've spent fighting it and how many lives we've fucked with we just refuse to say we were wrong or sorry. like when the navy shot down that iranian airliner and vp bush said he refused to apologize.

and think of how many people would have to be released from jail. what about all their stuff that was confiscated and sold? can they sue over being imprisoned for years?

it's the same as it was when alcohol was illegal, it puts the market in the hands of criminals.

as is pointed out in that doc i mentioned earlier, instead of being able to go to a business that has laws over it, like selling tobacco or alcohol to minors in the US, you're creating this vacuum that is filled with a lot of people that don't care how young the person is, what's in it.....

we need better education, this lumping it in with heroin, crack, meth....is ludicrous and if anything is harmful because when a kid tries pot and thinks it's nothing like they told him what's stopping him/her from thinking they lied about other drugs?

unsung

theoceansmademe wrote:

The trouble with this story is that it's speculation.

No one actually witnessed the murder.

I live near D.C. and how the misinformation spread with the sniper.

The victim told his brother over the radio it was an "illegal alien". I doubt he confused him with E.T.

arthurdent

Starfall wrote:

Legalize marijuana. That'll take care of the problem.

bbbzzzttt.


Wrong. Legalizing marijuana will only cause the criminal elements in Mexico to shift to more, violent, crimes such as kidnappings.

arthurdent

Starfall wrote:

I guarantee you if marijuana is decriminalized, it will do similar things for us. Marijuana is 70% of the revenue for these Mexican drug gangs - remove that revenue, and they'll collapse, like the Prohibition era gangs.

[citation needed]


These drug gangs are purely criminal enterprises. Remove pot, and they'll just move on to something else.

arthurdent

unsung wrote:

I'd bring the National Guard back from Iraq and stick them on the southern border.

That border and the people crossing it are more of a threat to this country than Iraq.

The U.S. border with Mexico is roughly 1969 miles.
The U.S. border with Canada is roughly 5528 miles.

There are roughly 88,00 army, navy, coast guard, air force and marines stationed in Iraq.
That would equal roughly 11 soldiers per mile of U.S. border.

arthurdent

Pepe Silvia wrote:

smithfield uses a lot of undocumented workers, then calls the ins on them when they want to get rid of them. halliburton did, too, with the contract to clean up after katrina. then when they asked to be paid halliburton had them deported

so halliburton had a lot of the work done for free and pays 0 US taxes on that money, what a scam!

that's one part of the solution. Go after the businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Hard.

arthurdent

Kel Varnsen wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

I don't know how to stop it. Do you think cutting off the supply completely will help, or is education and treatment at home a better option?

I don't think you can cut off the drug supply of any illegal drug completly. And everytime you make it smaller by those making record setting drug busts, all you do is increase the price that the dealers can sell what they still have for. I mean everytime I see one of those police press conferences where they have a bunch of bricks of coke laid out on a table, all I can think of is how the price of cocaine just went up and the dealers and suppliers are going to make more money.

If you can't cut off the supply, then kill the demand. Longer, harder sentences for drug offenses!!!!

Starfall

arthurdent wrote:

Starfall wrote:

Legalize marijuana. That'll take care of the problem.

bbbzzzttt.
Wrong. Legalizing marijuana will only cause the criminal elements in Mexico to shift to more, violent, crimes such as kidnappings.

See below.

[citation needed]

Right here.

PHOENIX - Attorney General Terry Goddard said....marijuana sales make up 75 percent of the money that Mexican cartels use for the other operations, including smuggling other drugs and fighting the army and police in that country. He said that makes fighting drug distribution here important to cut off that cash.

These drug gangs are purely criminal enterprises. Remove pot, and they'll just move on to something else.

How do you figure that? When Prohibition was repealed, the Chicago gangs didn't resort to kidnapping. On the contrary, they figured out rapidly how to make lucrative amounts of money LEGALLY - hence the booming gambling and entertainment enterprise that is Las Vegas.

Moreover, look at Portugal, where drug usage was decriminalized 5 years ago, to resounding success across the board.

Starfall

Pepe Silvia wrote:

sometimes i think with the amount of money we've spent fighting it and how many lives we've fucked with we just refuse to say we were wrong or sorry. like when the navy shot down that iranian airliner and vp bush said he refused to apologize.

and think of how many people would have to be released from jail. what about all their stuff that was confiscated and sold? can they sue over being imprisoned for years?

it's the same as it was when alcohol was illegal, it puts the market in the hands of criminals.

as is pointed out in that doc i mentioned earlier, instead of being able to go to a business that has laws over it, like selling tobacco or alcohol to minors in the US, you're creating this vacuum that is filled with a lot of people that don't care how young the person is, what's in it.....

we need better education, this lumping it in with heroin, crack, meth....is ludicrous and if anything is harmful because when a kid tries pot and thinks it's nothing like they told him what's stopping him/her from thinking they lied about other drugs?

See my link above to Glenzilla's report on the decriminalization of drugs in Portugal, and how that country's success might spur on others to emulate it. The cries from the right wingers of Portugal turning into a drug paradise never materialized, and in fact, overall drug usage started to go down.

Why should drug users subsidize criminal gangs when they can compensate society instead for all the (relatively small) trouble that they cause?

unsung

arthurdent wrote:

unsung wrote:

I'd bring the National Guard back from Iraq and stick them on the southern border.

That border and the people crossing it are more of a threat to this country than Iraq.

The U.S. border with Mexico is roughly 1969 miles.
The U.S. border with Canada is roughly 5528 miles.

There are roughly 88,00 army, navy, coast guard, air force and marines stationed in Iraq.
That would equal roughly 11 soldiers per mile of U.S. border.

I don't believe the Canadian border needs to have more people posted, but I might be wrong. I'm 100% for removing the troops from Iraq and militarizing our southern border.

Fine and jail CEO's that hire illegals.

Deport the ones here illegally.

End the birthright amendment.

Byrnzie

Interesting article here on the subject of drug-running. Seems the U.S government aren't completely innocent afterall - what a surprise!

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB113/storm.htm

Crack, The Contras, and the CIA

Starfall

unsung wrote:

arthurdent wrote:

unsung wrote:

I'd bring the National Guard back from Iraq and stick them on the southern border.

That border and the people crossing it are more of a threat to this country than Iraq.

The U.S. border with Mexico is roughly 1969 miles.
The U.S. border with Canada is roughly 5528 miles.

There are roughly 88,00 army, navy, coast guard, air force and marines stationed in Iraq.
That would equal roughly 11 soldiers per mile of U.S. border.

I don't believe the Canadian border needs to have more people posted, but I might be wrong. I'm 100% for removing the troops from Iraq and militarizing our southern border.

Fine and jail CEO's that hire illegals.

Deport the ones here illegally.

End the birthright amendment.

You guys DO realize that the Posse Comitatus Act expressly prohibits our military from acting as law enforcement, within US borders, right?

unsung

If they are not interfering with American Citizens and they only enforce the border I'm all for it.

Godfather.

Starfall what about the coast guard ?...same thing ?

Godfather.

Dirtie_Frank

Godfather. wrote:

Starfall what about the coast guard ?...same thing ?

Godfather.

Coast guard falls under Department of Homeland Security. They become a military org when we are at war and they provide support for the war.

The CG used to fall under Department of Treasury.

Starfall

unsung wrote:

If they are not interfering with American Citizens and they only enforce the border I'm all for it.

Still doesn't address how you're going to bypass the law. The law was put in after the Civil War to prevent the Federal Government from using the military against its own citizens. Call me a radical militiaman, but that kinda has some underlying logic to it, no?

Godfather. wrote:

Starfall what about the coast guard ?...same thing ?

Godfather.

The Coast Guard was specifically created as a peacetime law enforcement agency (and in fact, was originally part of the Treasury Department) and is exempt from Posse Comitatus.