45% of doctors would consider leaving their practice if....

WaveCameCrashin

Im sure Pelosi and the rest of the fecal matter in washington will try to impose some kind of draconian law on them.

I mean what could a dotor know about healthcare ?
Probably not much. :roll:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysi ... ?id=506199

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul
By TERRY JONES, INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Posted 09/15/2009 07:09 PM ET


IBD Exclusive Series:
Condition Critical: What Doctors Think About Health Reform
Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.

The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby — the powerful American Medical Association — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.

It also calls into question whether an overhaul is even doable; 72% of the doctors polled disagree with the administration's claim that the government can cover 47 million more people with better-quality care at lower cost.

The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted by mail the past two weeks, with 1,376 practicing physicians chosen randomly throughout the country taking part. Responses are still coming in, and doctors' positions on related topics — including the impact of an overhaul on senior care, medical school applications and drug development — will be covered later in this series.

Major findings included:

• Two-thirds, or 65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan. This contradicts the administration's claims that doctors are part of an "unprecedented coalition" supporting a medical overhaul.

It also differs with findings of a poll released Monday by National Public Radio that suggests a "majority of physicians want public and private insurance options," and clashes with media reports such as Tuesday's front-page story in the Los Angeles Times with the headline "Doctors Go For Obama's Reform."

Nowhere in the Times story does it say doctors as a whole back the overhaul. It says only that the AMA — the "association representing the nation's physicians" and what "many still regard as the country's premier lobbying force" — is "lobbying and advertising to win public support for President Obama's sweeping plan."

The AMA, in fact, represents approximately 18% of physicians and has been hit with a number of defections by members opposed to the AMA's support of Democrats' proposed health care overhaul.

• Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan the Democratic majority and White House have in mind.

More than 800,000 doctors were practicing in 2006, the government says. Projecting the poll's finding onto that population, 360,000 doctors would consider quitting.

Full Page « « F

Starfall

Uh.... no.
According to Politifact:

The survey didn't say 45 percent would quit; it said they would consider quitting, which is considerably different. Moreover, polling experts have raised significant questions about the poll's methodology. Of special concern are the combination of the heavy mention of [Investor's Business Daily's] name and questions that experts said appeared to be seeking answers critical of health reform.
We'd like to see an independent poll assessing doctors' views of health care reform, but neither the findings from the IBD survey nor those from the Keyhani-Federman study are fully persuasive to us. We rate [the] statement False.

AnarionKing

I consider moving to Manchester every day, but for some reason it never happens :?

WaveCameCrashin

No shit sherlock that's what it says CONSIDER :roll: And Polifact is not always right anyway. I have seen several issues where they have been wrong when they claim something to be false or true. and I didn't know Beck made this statment

There was a poll taken by the New England Journal of Medicine and it said the same thing.

I don't have the time to find a link to it cos I have to go to work.

Also I frequent a coffee shop by the Medical University Of South Carolina and every doctor and med student I have spoken with about this bill are don't like it in one way or another.

mca47

I work in health care (clinical cancer research), and I promise you...not one doctor is going to quit because of this bill.


Not one.

WaveCameCrashin

mca47 wrote:

I work in health care (clinical cancer research), and I promise you...not one doctor is going to quit because of this bill.


Not one.

I honestly hope none do but Like I said all the ones I have spoken with do not like this bill.
and don't make promises you can't keep because how do you know no doctor isn't going to quit ?

Starfall

prfctlefts wrote:

No shit sherlock that's what it says CONSIDER :roll: And Polifact is not always right anyway. I have seen several issues where they have been wrong when they claim something to be false or true. and I didn't know Beck made this statment

There was a poll taken by the New England Journal of Medicine and it said the same thing.

I don't have the time to find a link to it cos I have to go to work.

Also I frequent a coffee shop by the Medical University Of South Carolina and every doctor and med student I have spoken with about this bill are don't like it in one way or another.

Strange how you condemn Politifact when you don't like it and yet you can just as easily praise it too.

Besides, the objections they raised here are quite relevant. The survey itself is fraught with bias, for one. And half of all doctors quitting over this health care bill being passed? Really?

But yeah, good luck finding an unbiased source for this claim of yours that doesn't involve anecdotal conversations with some random, unnamed doctor or med student.

_

So they think the AMA's claims are inaccurate because they only represent 18% (144,000) of the docs in the country and that we should instead believe their poll which represents only 1376 docs?

What about the scb poll? I know over 100 docs and EVERY single one of them supports healthcare reform. (A couple of them actually HAVE quit because of the status quo.) And any doc I know who doesn't support Obama's plan in particular says its problem is that it doesn't go far enough.

Did this poll count those docs among their group that they suggest doesn't want healthcare reform? And what, exactly, were the questions asked? Personally, I don't know enough about the validity of this poll to have reason to believe it should trump all the other claims that physicians support reform.

Godfather.

prfctlefts wrote:

mca47 wrote:

I work in health care (clinical cancer research), and I promise you...not one doctor is going to quit because of this bill.


Not one.

I honestly hope none do but Like I said all the ones I have spoken with do not like this bill.
and don't make promises you can't keep because how do you know no doctor isn't going to quit ?

not to be rude prfctlefts but it would be a boat load of money to walk away from
on the other hand some people I know in canada told me that alot of doctors in canada are waiting for the chance to jump ship to the US, but that was in 2001-2003 I don't know anymore with all this health care crap going on but I'm willing to bet at least a few would quit.

Godfather.

JR24868

I am a nurse at a major Baltimore hospital, and doctors considering retiring early is a very big deal. There are only two ways to add more people to the healthcare system without increasing costs. Those two ways are to ration care or to pay those giving the care less. The governmet will choose to cut costs by paying less by setting reimbusement rates lower, not by witholding care. Nurses and doctors will recieve less pay and will pour out of the system. It's not an easy job, healthcare is highly skilled, very stressful, and very demanding. Similarly, my friend is a pharmacist and he says the pharmacy barely makes a profit filling Medicare scripts. They rely on private insurance payments to make money to be able to pay the pharmacists. Currently, Medicare refuses payments to hospitals much more often than private insurance and it compensates at a much lower rate than private insurance. So low in fact that doctors sometimes break even treating Medicare pts. We don't here about Medicare refusal of payment because the hospital is stuck with the bill and not the individual. It is not newsworthy and puts no single person in debt. It just forces the hospital to make it up elsewhere, that elsewhere is on private insurance payments and out of pocket patients. If the government controlled the entire system and its payment practices and rates were equal to Medicare, hospitals would go out of business and be in the red just like the government. If the extreme left had its way and reached the ultimate goal of single payer, physician pay and nurse pay would be reduce by at least a third due to the low reimbursement rates, if not by half. If you don't believe that look at pay rates in Canada. If nurses here made what they do in Canada, I would not be one, and many doctors will also change professions and use their intelligence where their work provides higher returns for their time invested. This bill is just a first step down that road and the physicians know it.

Shawshank

When my dad was practicing he completely stopped accepting Medicare/Medicaid because of all the red tape associated with it and how much they cut the bill. What the government ultimately pays on a bill, is almost pennies on the dollar, and you couple that with the increased litigation risks these days and it's just not worth the headache.

I do a ton of business with one of the largest health care providers in the state of Texas, and not one single doctor I know is in favor of this. I deal with probably 4o or 50 different doctors a week. Somehow they always seem to bring up the subject and you can see on their faces when you talk about it. Many of the young doctors especially are pissed since they are riding on hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans for a profession they would have never chosen given the current circumstances.

mca47

Godfather. wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

mca47 wrote:

I work in health care (clinical cancer research), and I promise you...not one doctor is going to quit because of this bill.


Not one.

I honestly hope none do but Like I said all the ones I have spoken with do not like this bill.
and don't make promises you can't keep because how do you know no doctor isn't going to quit ?

not to be rude prfctlefts but it would be a boat load of money to walk away from
on the other hand some people I know in canada told me that alot of doctors in canada are waiting for the chance to jump ship to the US, but that was in 2001-2003 I don't know anymore with all this health care crap going on but I'm willing to bet at least a few would quit.

Godfather.

Exactly.

The time and effort to go through medical school, internships, residencies, busting their asses off for years and years to finally be comfortable and finally get paid well...
And they now are going to walk away from their 6-figure salaries because they don't like a few parts of the bill that really isn't going to affect them much anyways...

Not going to happen. Though that poll does sound scary.

JR24868

Mca47 says:

"Exactly.

The time and effort to go through medical school, internships, residencies, busting their asses off for years and years to finally be comfortable and finally get paid well...
And they now are going to walk away from their 6-figure salaries because they don't like a few parts of the bill that really isn't going to affect them much anyways...

Not going to happen. Though that poll does sound scary."[/quote]


The point here is that any doctor who is already comfortable will have the option to leave rather than work for less and less people will be willing to go through all the years of school and the mountains of debt to go into a profession where earnings are controlled by the government. Most docs are in it to make money. And dropping their salary from mid to high 6 figures to low 6 figures like in Canada, will have an effect. If anyone doubts that, you are fools.

_

JR24868 wrote:

Mca47 wrote:

says:

"Exactly.

The time and effort to go through medical school, internships, residencies, busting their asses off for years and years to finally be comfortable and finally get paid well...
And they now are going to walk away from their 6-figure salaries because they don't like a few parts of the bill that really isn't going to affect them much anyways...

Not going to happen. Though that poll does sound scary."

The point here is that any doctor who is already comfortable will have the option to leave rather than work for less and less people will be willing to go through all the years of school and the mountains of debt to go into a profession where earnings are controlled by the government. Most docs are in it to make money. And dropping their salary from mid to high 6 figures to low 6 figures like in Canada, will have an effect. If anyone doubts that, you are fools.

I know many doctors who work for low 6 figures because they love medicine. Those docs will still be around and they are the ones I would want caring for me anyway.

JR24868

Well good luck scb, if half the doctors leave, you'll be lucky to get an appointment. Your post illustrates perfectly why this type of government control always fails. You don't care about the consequences of the government taking over. You have no foresight and don't even want to hear about the possible consequences. You just want ultimate equality. Well, you'll get it. You'll be standing in line just like everyone else. England's health care is a joke. Canadians come here to pay out of pocket for care. The intent is good to have health care for all, but the execution is always wrong. England and Canada do not intentionally ration care, but the system in place makes it less rewarding to provide the service, so less service is provided. When the smaller amount of service gets divided among all, you do the math.

Starfall

JR24868 wrote:

I am a nurse at a major Baltimore hospital, and doctors considering retiring early is a very big deal. There are only two ways to add more people to the healthcare system without increasing costs. Those two ways are to ration care or to pay those giving the care less.

Not to rain on your parade, but isn't that EXACTLY what the for profit insurance companies are doing right now?

The governmet will choose to cut costs by paying less by setting reimbusement rates lower, not by witholding care. Nurses and doctors will recieve less pay and will pour out of the system. It's not an easy job, healthcare is highly skilled, very stressful, and very demanding. Similarly, my friend is a pharmacist and he says the pharmacy barely makes a profit filling Medicare scripts. They rely on private insurance payments to make money to be able to pay the pharmacists. Currently, Medicare refuses payments to hospitals much more often than private insurance and it compensates at a much lower rate than private insurance. So low in fact that doctors sometimes break even treating Medicare pts. We don't here about Medicare refusal of payment because the hospital is stuck with the bill and not the individual. It is not newsworthy and puts no single person in debt. It just forces the hospital to make it up elsewhere, that elsewhere is on private insurance payments and out of pocket patients.

Easy way to fix that is to expand Medicare so that anyone who wants to buy into it, is able to. Including younger, healthier people. Increase the funding for Medicare, we can pay health care providers what they're worth and we don't have to subsidize multi-millionaire CEOs with gold plated cutlery and private jets.

But you can thank the Republicans with their entire "government is bad" mentality. :roll:

If the government controlled the entire system and its payment practices and rates were equal to Medicare, hospitals would go out of business and be in the red just like the government.

Yes, just like if I stopped taking in paychecks and spent like a drunken sailor I'd be in the red too. Which is exactly what the right wingers have done to this country. Start spending on things like schools and infrastructure instead of wars and corporate welfare, and repeal the Bush AND Reagan tax cuts and we'll all be better off.

If the extreme left had its way and reached the ultimate goal of single payer, physician pay and nurse pay would be reduce by at least a third due to the low reimbursement rates, if not by half. If you don't believe that look at pay rates in Canada. If nurses here made what they do in Canada, I would not be one, and many doctors will also change professions and use their intelligence where their work provides higher returns for their time invested. This bill is just a first step down that road and the physicians know it.

Oh jeez, bring up those horrible socialist Canadians again. If the Canadian system is so bad, then why do only 13% of Canadians want to switch to a private insurance system like we have? Per Gallup:
Thirty-eight percent of Americans say they would like to replace the current, private U.S. healthcare system with a government-run system similar to that in Canada and Great Britain. But only 21% of British citizens would like to see the government-run British system replaced with a system based mostly on private insurance. And Canadians are less likely than Britons to want to replace their government-run system, at 13%.
Heck, if what we have is so great, how come no country in the world wants to adopt it? Why did the Bush Administration fund Canadian style single payer for Iraq, but we can't have it for ourselves?

_

JR24868 wrote:

I am a nurse at a major Baltimore hospital, and doctors considering retiring early is a very big deal. There are only two ways to add more people to the healthcare system without increasing costs. Those two ways are to ration care or to pay those giving the care less. The governmet will choose to cut costs by paying less by setting reimbusement rates lower, not by witholding care. Nurses and doctors will recieve less pay and will pour out of the system. It's not an easy job, healthcare is highly skilled, very stressful, and very demanding. Similarly, my friend is a pharmacist and he says the pharmacy barely makes a profit filling Medicare scripts. They rely on private insurance payments to make money to be able to pay the pharmacists. Currently, Medicare refuses payments to hospitals much more often than private insurance and it compensates at a much lower rate than private insurance. So low in fact that doctors sometimes break even treating Medicare pts. We don't here about Medicare refusal of payment because the hospital is stuck with the bill and not the individual. It is not newsworthy and puts no single person in debt. It just forces the hospital to make it up elsewhere, that elsewhere is on private insurance payments and out of pocket patients. If the government controlled the entire system and its payment practices and rates were equal to Medicare, hospitals would go out of business and be in the red just like the government. If the extreme left had its way and reached the ultimate goal of single payer, physician pay and nurse pay would be reduce by at least a third due to the low reimbursement rates, if not by half. If you don't believe that look at pay rates in Canada. If nurses here made what they do in Canada, I would not be one, and many doctors will also change professions and use their intelligence where their work provides higher returns for their time invested. This bill is just a first step down that road and the physicians know it.

I don't think it's true that there are only two ways to add people to the healthcare system without increasing costs. You're not taking into consideration the savings inherent in a universal system: 1. Malpractice rates - which are the costs that are really killing physicians - would be considerably lower in a system where patients who won malpractice suits didn't need to be paid for their future medical care. 2. We would have the ability to negotiate the outrageous prices the drug companies are charging - like $703 for an IUD. 3. The hospitals would save tons of money on the administrative costs since they wouldn't have to hire so many people and spend so much time dealing with each of the insurance companies & their different systems/paperwork. (How much of your time as a nurse is spent dealing with paperwork? Imagine if that time could be used instead for direct patient care.) 4. People would get preventative care instead of waiting until their conditions are more severe and more costly to treat. Et cetera.

Besides, are you suggesting that we should therefore NOT add people to the healthcare system and just leave millions and millions of people uninsured or underinsured? If you think it's acceptable for people to be uninsured, would you be willing to give up your health benefits so someone else can have them without increasing the burden on the system?

Alpine Bound

oh silly Repubs. I consider quitting every day at work, but I dont. If you expect me to feel bad for doctors, I certainly wont. Regardless of what happens, they make a very successful living.

Godfather.

JR24868 wrote:

Mca47 says:

"Exactly.

The time and effort to go through medical school, internships, residencies, busting their asses off for years and years to finally be comfortable and finally get paid well...
And they now are going to walk away from their 6-figure salaries because they don't like a few parts of the bill that really isn't going to affect them much anyways...

Not going to happen. Though that poll does sound scary."

The point here is that any doctor who is already comfortable will have the option to leave rather than work for less and less people will be willing to go through all the years of school and the mountains of debt to go into a profession where earnings are controlled by the government. Most docs are in it to make money. And dropping their salary from mid to high 6 figures to low 6 figures like in Canada, will have an effect. If anyone doubts that, you are fools.[/quote]

a low 6 figures.......damn I shoulda stayed in school

Godfather.

dunkman

this is dumb stats at best... its like saying 45% of scottish people might consider tipping in a restaurant.... doesn't mean we'd do it... just consider it. :thumbup:

WaveCameCrashin

If this bill does pass and it looks like it will,It will be intresting to see what the people think that support this bill
10 years from now.

g under p

prfctlefts wrote:

If this bill does pass and it looks like it will,It will be intresting to see what the people think that support this bill
10 years from now.

You'll be the first one called 10 years from now cause I hope it won't be the end of the world by then.

Peace

WaveCameCrashin

g under p wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

If this bill does pass and it looks like it will,It will be intresting to see what the people think that support this bill
10 years from now.

You'll be the first one called 10 years from now cause I hope it won't be the end of the world by then.

Peace

Well either do I But if you think this bill is going to make things better your in complete denial with all due respect.

lukin2006

I'm a Canadian here, how is this bill going to effect doctors? I thought it was just going to make sure everyone has affordable healthcare. Are the Docs going to limited to how much they make.?

Why didn't the president and congress and all the states along with medical community work together on health care package, even if it takes a couple of years, and then bring it forward to the people. It seems this has really divided your country like no other issue?

g under p

prfctlefts wrote:

g under p wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

If this bill does pass and it looks like it will,It will be intresting to see what the people think that support this bill
10 years from now.

You'll be the first one called 10 years from now cause I hope it won't be the end of the world by then.

Peace

Well either do I But if you think this bill is going to make things better your in complete denial with all due respect.

Well after what I've experienced with these REASONABLE profiting health insurance companies where they have denied me coverage at anytime for any reason in the past. This after I'm paying them out of pocket $300-$600 a month which makes it nerve racking just to go to the doctors office. I'll take this health care reform in a heartbeat with out a ounce of denial thank you very much.

Peace

_

prfctlefts wrote:

If this bill does pass and it looks like it will,It will be intresting to see what the people think that support this bill
10 years from now.

I suspect we'll think it didn't go far enough and we'll still be hurting for universal healthcare.

_

lukin2006 wrote:

Why didn't the president and congress and all the states along with medical community work together on health care package, even if it takes a couple of years, and then bring it forward to the people. It seems this has really divided your country like no other issue?

Everyone HAS been working on healthcare reform for years.

Don't worry too much about healthcare reform dividing our country; our country was already divided. I would actually say it's the division of our country that's creating the problems with healthcare reform more so than healthcare reform creating divisions in our country. People don't really understand or think critically about the issue; they just fight fiercely for their side to win. If we weren't such a politically dichotomous nation we might be better able to see past our "side" and address the issue more reasonably.

thefin190

I know my boss said he chose not to go to medical school because he didn't like what he saw, with regards to doctors being motivated to give too many tests and etc. A doctor is not going to give up their trade and do something else that will most likely pay less because more people are now covered. That is just a ridiculous statement.

KDH12

adspj wrote:

oh silly Repubs. I consider quitting every day at work, but I dont. If you expect me to feel bad for doctors, I certainly wont. Regardless of what happens, they make a very successful living.

+1

Doctors who retire early becuase of this bill will probably retire early regardless of this bill

on top of that no doctors are going to close doors cause of this bill

although a career at Homedepot is tempting I think they will pick medicine

Aaron 23

JR24868 wrote:

I am a nurse at a major Baltimore hospital, and doctors considering retiring early is a very big deal. There are only two ways to add more people to the healthcare system without increasing costs. Those two ways are to ration care or to pay those giving the care less. The governmet will choose to cut costs by paying less by setting reimbusement rates lower, not by witholding care. Nurses and doctors will recieve less pay and will pour out of the system. It's not an easy job, healthcare is highly skilled, very stressful, and very demanding. Similarly, my friend is a pharmacist and he says the pharmacy barely makes a profit filling Medicare scripts. They rely on private insurance payments to make money to be able to pay the pharmacists. Currently, Medicare refuses payments to hospitals much more often than private insurance and it compensates at a much lower rate than private insurance. So low in fact that doctors sometimes break even treating Medicare pts. We don't here about Medicare refusal of payment because the hospital is stuck with the bill and not the individual. It is not newsworthy and puts no single person in debt. It just forces the hospital to make it up elsewhere, that elsewhere is on private insurance payments and out of pocket patients. If the government controlled the entire system and its payment practices and rates were equal to Medicare, hospitals would go out of business and be in the red just like the government. If the extreme left had its way and reached the ultimate goal of single payer, physician pay and nurse pay would be reduce by at least a third due to the low reimbursement rates, if not by half. If you don't believe that look at pay rates in Canada. If nurses here made what they do in Canada, I would not be one, and many doctors will also change professions and use their intelligence where their work provides higher returns for their time invested. This bill is just a first step down that road and the physicians know it.

My father is a pediatric anesthesiologist...he worked very hard to get where he is (graduated medical school at 32 and served twice in the military to help with the costs). He is not your typical weekend golfing and never had a real job outside of the medical industry doctor...he spends most of his time outside of work maintaining his small farm and doing volunteer work for those that need help in their community. He feels that there needs to be change with the system, but he agrees 100% that what they are trying to pass is NOT going to make things better and has mentioned much of what was said above as what he fears will happen if this passes. My brother is in his third year of medical school, and he has stated many times that he would prefer a job as an MD where he isn't paid top dollar if it means he can practice what he loves while having more time to spend with family...he is also fearful of the above.

thefin190 wrote:

I know my boss said he chose not to go to medical school because he didn't like what he saw, with regards to doctors being motivated to give too many tests and etc. A doctor is not going to give up their trade and do something else that will most likely pay less because more people are now covered. That is just a ridiculous statement.

Doctors give "too many tests" to cover themselves thoroughly so they have sufficient documentation to protect themselves from malpractice litigation. My father has had to appear in court on a few occasions to things that have happened that are no fault of his own or anyone else's where the patient was simply trying to make a quick buck.

_

Aaron 23 wrote:

thefin190 wrote:

I know my boss said he chose not to go to medical school because he didn't like what he saw, with regards to doctors being motivated to give too many tests and etc. A doctor is not going to give up their trade and do something else that will most likely pay less because more people are now covered. That is just a ridiculous statement.

Doctors give "too many tests" to cover themselves thoroughly so they have sufficient documentation to protect themselves from malpractice litigation. My father has had to appear in court on a few occasions to things that have happened that are no fault of his own or anyone else's where the patient was simply trying to make a quick buck.

Exactly. And you know what would drastically decrease malpractice issues? Universal healthcare.