How do you feel about the fact that more people watch Fox than any other cable news outlet? We must all be crazy here in America right? hmm come to think of it, we (collectively) also voted for Obama. how do you feel about that contradiction. You can't have it both ways brother.
The fact Fox is the 'most trusted name in cable news' and the highest rating scares the shit out of me. Rupert Murdoch will do whatever he needs to make money. If there was more money in spruking far left ideology, he'd be doing it. The fact he has found a formula and team that has tapped in to a neglected demogrograph. He has dummed down the content, raised the 'sexiness' of the product, employed graphic artists, animators and music producers to make Fox News more like MTV and taken shock-jock talk radio to TV and it is working its butt off. Pure genius until you think of the damage this is doing to the political landscape and the damage this is doing to America by polarising thought or discrediting it altogether.
As a fairly frequent visitor to USA I can see the vast difference between the America I see and the one promoted by FOX. Their vision of the 'real America' is a scary and backward one indeed.
sounds like my cup of tea! hannity and pearl jam. there are probably many more of us than people know...those who eat, sleep, and breathe pearl jam but COMPLETELY disagree with them about almost everything political.
just glad i live in a country where I can have both my views and my pearl jam!
I approve this message.
add me to the list of approvals.
ditto
SLC 11/2/95, Park City 6/21/98, Boise 11/3/00, Seattle 12/9/02, Vancouver 5/30/03, Gorge 9/1/05, Vancouver 9/2/05, Gorge 7/22/06, Gorge 7/23/06, Camden I 6/19/08, MSG I 6/24/08, MSG II 6/25/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield II 6/30/08; Eddie Albany 6/8/09, 6/9/09; Philly 10/30/09, 10/31/09; Boston 5/17/10
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
How do you feel about the fact that more people watch Fox than any other cable news outlet? We must all be crazy here in America right? hmm come to think of it, we (collectively) also voted for Obama. how do you feel about that contradiction. You can't have it both ways brother.
The fact Fox is the 'most trusted name in cable news' and the highest rating scares the shit out of me. Rupert Murdoch will do whatever he needs to make money. If there was more money in spruking far left ideology, he'd be doing it. The fact he has found a formula and team that has tapped in to a neglected demogrograph. He has dummed down the content, raised the 'sexiness' of the product, employed graphic artists, animators and music producers to make Fox News more like MTV and taken shock-jock talk radio to TV and it is working its butt off. Pure genius until you think of the damage this is doing to the political landscape and the damage this is doing to America by polarising thought or discrediting it altogether.
As a fairly frequent visitor to USA I can see the vast difference between the America I see and the one promoted by FOX. Their vision of the 'real America' is a scary and backward one indeed.
I just have to disagree with you. I live in DC, one of the most traditionally liberal areas of the country and I know people of ALL backgrounds, races, ethnicities etc who tell me they turn to Fox News. Remember, i work for the gov't so it's not simply a bunch of rich, white men that i interact with all day. People are fed up and reallllly sick of how the Obama admin and congress is handling this country. I have had NUMEROUS obama voters come to me (b/c they know im conservative) and say, "i wish i could take back my vote". you're obviously entitled to you opinion, but you're not a citizen and visintg the US often is nothing like living here and living WITH the actions of our gov't. btw, i was also critical of many things bush did while in office, so im not just toting the party line.
There is a vast difference here. Jon Stewart never claims to be 'fair and balanced' nor does he claim to be a 'News Program' he is comedy and social comment and makes no secret of his left wing bias - however, even nutters like Bill O'Reilly credit him as being a fair mainstream leftist, not an extremist from the far left. However, I find him to be quite logical, respectful and fair in his analysis, interviews and his comedy. The aircraft carrier joke is not a good example to use as this was obviously a joke - not news analysis.
What is of concern is that someone would watch The Daily Show for 'news' and Jon Stewart also makes this point. However, Fox claims to be fair an balanced news when nothing could be further from the truth. The fact people watch Fox News for news is the most concerning.
I thought the aircraft carrier joke was funny, because I understood it was a joke. The guy is funny, but his interviews are painful, he constantly cuts off anyone with an opposing view point, cracks a joke, and the audience goes wild. But you would be surprised at how many people don't understand that it is not real. You would be surprised at how many people believe everything they hear on TV. But really you shouldn't... look at our last presidential election.
Just because fox news doesn't promote your point of view, doesn't mean they are not fair and balanced. Maybe your point of view is unbalanced? Maybe since Fox news is the only right leaning news source out there, they are by definition the balance? Ever think of that?
Rupert Murdoch will do whatever he needs to make money.
Just like the political left will do whatever it needs for more power. Whether it's destroying an economy (global warming) or the healthcare system. Then they fly around in their private jets and aren't covered by the same healthcare they think is so great for us.
I just have to disagree with you. I live in DC, one of the most traditionally liberal areas of the country and I know people of ALL backgrounds, races, ethnicities etc who tell me they turn to Fox News. Remember, i work for the gov't so it's not simply a bunch of rich, white men that i interact with all day. People are fed up and reallllly sick of how the Obama admin and congress is handling this country. I have had NUMEROUS obama voters come to me (b/c they know im conservative) and say, "i wish i could take back my vote". you're obviously entitled to you opinion, but you're not a citizen and visintg the US often is nothing like living here and living WITH the actions of our gov't. btw, i was also critical of many things bush did while in office, so im not just toting the party line.
I don't doubt your free thinking and admit, not being a citizen does make me an interested outsider. I also can't really make judgement on Obama or his progress thus far. I'm still trying to get my head around the fact you guys don't want government healthcare. But from the outside looking in (and with a degree in media) i find fox news pure propaganda from a very ultra right wing and conservative point of view. The very construction of the narrative and positioning of the view on Fox is so blatant I's amazed people buy it. FOX - the WWE of News.
I'm still trying to get my head around the fact you guys don't want government healthcare.
Why would we want government healthcare? The government can't run anything correctly. Medicare is government health care, and it has the highest claim rejection rate by far when compared with those "evil" insurance companies. What country has a higher standard of care than the United States?
I'm still trying to get my head around the fact you guys don't want government healthcare.
Why would we want government healthcare? The government can't run anything correctly. Medicare is government health care, and it has the highest claim rejection rate by far when compared with those "evil" insurance companies. What country has a higher standard of care than the United States?
Man, almost every Western country has a better standard of healthcare system than the USA. We have social and private health insurance in Australia - no-one goes without. Englands NHS is better than the USA system. I'm fairly sure Mexico has a better system. The fault doesn't lie with socialised medicine, the fault lies with corrupt governments, greedy heath providers and insurance companies. Socialised heathcare can and does work fine in many countries, all with a higher standard of heathcare than USA.
Just like the political left will do whatever it needs for more power. Whether it's destroying an economy (global warming) or the healthcare system. Then they fly around in their private jets and aren't covered by the same healthcare they think is so great for us.
they will? last i checked they were always the ones with their thumbs up their asses while the right was trivializing things with semantics
Just like the political left will do whatever it needs for more power. Whether it's destroying an economy (global warming) or the healthcare system. Then they fly around in their private jets and aren't covered by the same healthcare they think is so great for us.
they will? last i checked they were always the ones with their thumbs up their asses while the right was trivializing things with semantics
great time to be an American :?
Thumbs up their asses? They're trying to use rules designed for budgetary reasons to push through a massive health-care overhaul. And now that they MIGHT not get the votes for that, they're trying an even goofier scheme to pass it without a vote. They certainly don't have their thumbs up their asses... except that Massa guy, but his thumbs are probably tickling some his staffers. HEYOOOOOOOOOO.
Just like the political left will do whatever it needs for more power. Whether it's destroying an economy (global warming) or the healthcare system. Then they fly around in their private jets and aren't covered by the same healthcare they think is so great for us.
they will? last i checked they were always the ones with their thumbs up their asses while the right was trivializing things with semantics
great time to be an American :?
Thumbs up their asses? They're trying to use rules designed for budgetary reasons to push through a massive health-care overhaul. And now that they MIGHT not get the votes for that, they're trying an even goofier scheme to pass it without a vote. They certainly don't have their thumbs up their asses... except that Massa guy, but his thumbs are probably tickling some his staffers. HEYOOOOOOOOOO.
Just like the political left will do whatever it needs for more power. Whether it's destroying an economy (global warming) or the healthcare system. Then they fly around in their private jets and aren't covered by the same healthcare they think is so great for us.
they will? last i checked they were always the ones with their thumbs up their asses while the right was trivializing things with semantics
great time to be an American :?
Thumbs up their asses? They're trying to use rules designed for budgetary reasons to push through a massive health-care overhaul. And now that they MIGHT not get the votes for that, they're trying an even goofier scheme to pass it without a vote. They certainly don't have their thumbs up their asses... except that Massa guy, but his thumbs are probably tickling some his staffers. HEYOOOOOOOOOO.
and it took them how long to get here?... this "scheming" would've been the GOP's first response had the shoe been on the other foot... and I don't mean that in a negative way... get something done however you need to... see how it works... its how everythings gotten done in the past... if it sucks hopefully we have the sense to get rid of it soon
What I'm really just saying is we have one party willing to play hardball because they know their demographic is rabid enough to stick by them regardles and the others constantly walking on egg shells in an effort to be the "people's party"... quite frankly - as dangerous and scheming as some make them out to be - most dems I know are more indifferent than anything... you piss them off and they're not gonna switch sides... theyre just gonna forget about the whole fuckin mess
and it took them how long to get here?... this "scheming" would've been the GOP's first response had the shoe been on the other foot... and I don't mean that in a negative way... get something done however you need to... see how it works... its how everythings gotten done in the past... if it sucks hopefully we have the sense to get rid of it soon
What I'm really just saying is we have one party willing to play hardball because they know their demographic is rabid enough to stick by them regardles and the others constantly walking on egg shells in an effort to be the "people's party"... quite frankly - as dangerous and scheming as some make them out to be - most dems I know are more indifferent than anything... you piss them off and they're not gonna switch sides... theyre just gonna forget about the whole fuckin mess
Everyone feels that way about their team... I mean that both politically, in sports, etc.
Everyone feels like their side won't play down the other side, isn't aggressive enough, however you want to spell it.
and it took them how long to get here?... this "scheming" would've been the GOP's first response had the shoe been on the other foot... and I don't mean that in a negative way... get something done however you need to... see how it works... its how everythings gotten done in the past... if it sucks hopefully we have the sense to get rid of it soon
What I'm really just saying is we have one party willing to play hardball because they know their demographic is rabid enough to stick by them regardles and the others constantly walking on egg shells in an effort to be the "people's party"... quite frankly - as dangerous and scheming as some make them out to be - most dems I know are more indifferent than anything... you piss them off and they're not gonna switch sides... theyre just gonna forget about the whole fuckin mess
Everyone feels that way about their team... I mean that both politically, in sports, etc.
Everyone feels like their side won't play down the other side, isn't aggressive enough, however you want to spell it.
that'd be all well and good if i had a side here... I'm just observing really
enough with the "sides" and "teams"... it sounds trite, but cant we listen to ideas and have a discussion?... the founding fathers NEVER could've imagined this clusterfuck... wheres the checks and balances for the kind of party devotion we see these days?
that'd be all well and good if i had a side here... I'm just observing really
enough with the "sides" and "teams"... it sounds trite, but cant we listen to ideas and have a discussion?... the founding fathers NEVER could've imagined this clusterfuck... wheres the checks and balances for the kind of party devotion we see these days?
There's no way you don't have a side here... not a chance.
Man, almost every Western country has a better standard of healthcare system than the USA. We have social and private health insurance in Australia - no-one goes without. Englands NHS is better than the USA system. I'm fairly sure Mexico has a better system. The fault doesn't lie with socialised medicine, the fault lies with corrupt governments, greedy heath providers and insurance companies. Socialised heathcare can and does work fine in many countries, all with a higher standard of heathcare than USA.
You have got to be kidding, the British healthcare system is a joke! No country has a better standard of healthcare than the United States. That is why people come here to get the healthcare they can't get in their own countries, due to rationing. The quality of U.S. healthcare is second to none because of free market capitalism. It's simple supply and demand. If you want the best healthcare in the world, you have to pay for it. Instituting socialized medicine in the U.S. will just drag the quality of our health care down to the what the rest of the world has. Then where will you go for decent health care? I'm not saying that some reform is not in order, but we don't need socialized medicine. Again, if the program the Democrats are trying to ram down our throats is so great, why they exempt?
The real problem is not healthcare, it's personal responsibility. You don't need a flat screen TV, or to go see rock concerts. You need health care. People waste their money on what they want then expect the government to provide them what they need.
Man, almost every Western country has a better standard of healthcare system than the USA. We have social and private health insurance in Australia - no-one goes without. Englands NHS is better than the USA system. I'm fairly sure Mexico has a better system. The fault doesn't lie with socialised medicine, the fault lies with corrupt governments, greedy heath providers and insurance companies. Socialised heathcare can and does work fine in many countries, all with a higher standard of heathcare than USA.
You have got to be kidding, the British healthcare system is a joke! No country has a better standard of healthcare than the United States. That is why people come here to get the healthcare they can't get in their own countries, due to rationing. The quality of U.S. healthcare is second to none because of free market capitalism. It's simple supply and demand. If you want the best healthcare in the world, you have to pay for it. Instituting socialized medicine in the U.S. will just drag the quality of our health care down to the what the rest of the world has. Then where will you go for decent health care? I'm not saying that some reform is not in order, but we don't need socialized medicine. Again, if the program the Democrats are trying to ram down our throats is so great, why they exempt?
The real problem is not healthcare, it's personal responsibility. You don't need a flat screen TV, or to go see rock concerts. You need health care. People waste their money on what they want then expect the government to provide them what they need.
OK, here is the Worl Health Organisation ranking health care systems (circa 2000):
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
I'm still trying to get my head around the fact you guys don't want government healthcare.
Why would we want government healthcare? The government can't run anything correctly. Medicare is government health care, and it has the highest claim rejection rate by far when compared with those "evil" insurance companies. What country has a higher standard of care than the United States?
Man, almost every Western country has a better standard of healthcare system than the USA. We have social and private health insurance in Australia - no-one goes without. Englands NHS is better than the USA system. I'm fairly sure Mexico has a better system. The fault doesn't lie with socialised medicine, the fault lies with corrupt governments, greedy heath providers and insurance companies. Socialised heathcare can and does work fine in many countries, all with a higher standard of heathcare than USA.
I'm going to hedge my response, by saying there's no doubt Fox News is bias.
But, as for healthcare, there's a few problems:
1) During the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression, during it... not after, our newly elected President was pushing a change in our healthcare system. Our unemployment rate rose more than 3% points in 2009 and yet... healthcare was his focal point. The last Democratic President tried to do this during an economic expansion and failed. I believe that our President should have been focusing on the economy and, personally, I'm pretty sure the majority of America agrees. When you are broke and out of work, is it smart to start contemplating how you will spend on your credit card even if it's for charity? The timing was simply put... awful.... regardless if healthcare is a public good or not. It was just not the time for this debate.
2) Yet, I have an opinion on healthcare.... I believe U.S. healthcare is very, very good. In my opinion, our specialists are without any doubt the best in the world. We spend more in our country on healthcare than any other country in the world. The problem, some say, is the percent of uninsured in our country. Even the uninsured will get care... classified as uncompensated care.... hospitals can not turn away someone who is uninsured and in need. I think the area where the U.S. healthcare system does not do as good of a job is before illness... meaning screenings and whatnot. The reason I believe this is the case is some choose to wait in the U.S. to see a doctor, which can sometimes lead to problems. But, if these problems do arise we have the best doctors to treat. One of the major reasons people wait in the U.S. is the costs to go to the doctor are high... why? Well, ummmm.... government. In the last 40 years, government share of healthcare in the U.S. has increased from 10% to 50%, while remaining elements of free market have fallen under increasing regulation.
3) There's problems with universal healthcare. First, it's government run. No offense, but the government does not do a good job running anything. In the U.S. I'd trust a profit maximizing firm over the government anyday. Why? Because there's a check against them. If this private firm doesn't do a good job, they will lose profit. The real problem with universal healthcare is it destroys healthcare specialists and creates shortages. It's simple economics. Clearly, when all are provided with healthcare, they are more likely to go to the doctor/hospital raising demand for healthcare, meanwhile doctors/hospitals can't cover the increased demand... in fact, the pool of doctors shrink... why?... the govt tries to control costs by reducing physician reimbursement.... so, doctors either leave the area under this regulated environment... OR... many don't become doctors at all.
In Canada, for instance, Canadians wait an average of 17 weeks for a referral to a specialist. In fact, Canadians spend more than $1 billion a year in,... guess.... the United States. Why? Because of our specialists. Recently, Canadian Supreme Court struck down the law forbidding private insurance "because access to a waiting list does not constitute access to health care." Britain is no better... Two years ago, many British hospitals stopped providing heart bypass surgery to smokers. The waiting lists were so long that they wanted to give priority to non-smokers who responded better to surgery. This year the British Medical Journal reports that physicians in the National Health Service are often no longer treating patients age 80 or over for strokes.
****So, are there problems in the U.S. system? Yes. Are the universal systems flawless? Absolutely not. Would I prefer our current system to a universal system? Yes. Should we have even been debating this in the past year? Absolutely not.
Obama has to put his government nipple back in his shirt. We don't want it.... we know we'll pay later. Just get the economy back on track.... and we'll love you.
Man, almost every Western country has a better standard of healthcare system than the USA. We have social and private health insurance in Australia - no-one goes without. Englands NHS is better than the USA system. I'm fairly sure Mexico has a better system. The fault doesn't lie with socialised medicine, the fault lies with corrupt governments, greedy heath providers and insurance companies. Socialised heathcare can and does work fine in many countries, all with a higher standard of heathcare than USA.
You have got to be kidding, the British healthcare system is a joke! No country has a better standard of healthcare than the United States. That is why people come here to get the healthcare they can't get in their own countries, due to rationing. The quality of U.S. healthcare is second to none because of free market capitalism. It's simple supply and demand. If you want the best healthcare in the world, you have to pay for it. Instituting socialized medicine in the U.S. will just drag the quality of our health care down to the what the rest of the world has. Then where will you go for decent health care? I'm not saying that some reform is not in order, but we don't need socialized medicine. Again, if the program the Democrats are trying to ram down our throats is so great, why they exempt?
The real problem is not healthcare, it's personal responsibility. You don't need a flat screen TV, or to go see rock concerts. You need health care. People waste their money on what they want then expect the government to provide them what they need.
OK, here is the Worl Health Organisation ranking health care systems (circa 2000):
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
you've actually just proved our point here. that ranking applies to healthcare as provided by the government in each country. since healthcare in the US is almost entirely a privately run operation, our government has little effect on the HC system (aside from some regulation as to standards). i think what this list really tells me is that, if the govt played an even larger role in HC, then we'd be even further down the list. when you allow for competition in the free market, you inevitibly get a better product, and, a race to the bottom in terms of prices (or in this case premiums). if people can select which insurer would give them the best deal, they'll ultimately be better off. imagine it like a care dealership. the last time i bought a new car i went to 4 or 5 dealers to see who would cut me the best deal. now imagine if only the gov't was allowed to sell cars....you'd have to pay whatever they asked, and you'd never know what kind of a deal you were getting. not to mention that once an entity has complete control over an industry, they can begin to reduce the quality of their product and hike prices b/c there is no competition. this is why have anit-monopoly regulations and policies. under obama's plan there would be one, big, all encompassing monopoly.....the federal gov't!!!
i work with it every day and i can tell you that you DO NOT want it running something as massive and complicated as healthcare!
A basic government system that you pay for through taxation (means tested) about 1% to 3%. Medicare covers pretty much everything but for non life threatening conditions, elective surgery, you do go on a waiting list (and these lists are political dynamite). Emergency care is included in this. GP visits are also included although most GPs in Australia charge over the medicare rebate - I normally end up paying about $15 for a doctor visit to my GP. I can go to a hospital for free medical services. No-one is turned away from a hospital.
A second system of private insurace. The government offers a tax rebate 30% and you can join whatever plan you wish with whatever insurance company you wish. This is a poersonal choice- employers do not have anything to do with your healthcare (unless they offer it as a perk - few do). You as an individual or family join a health insurance plan. This covers elective surgery, dental and so on. There is rarely a waiting list, you choose your specialist/doctor and accept the contitions cost as stated in yoru plan.
I'm sure there are more fine print than I've just explained.
We have public hostpitals and private hospitals. While the private hospitals are much nicer, better resourced and more like a hotel than a public hospital, I've had nothing but good experiences in public hospitals. A number of Nobel prize winners and gorundbreaking researchers work in my closest major public hospitals. My daughter was born in a country public hospital and the standard of care for mother and child was brilliant.
But here are some examples of my health care. I don't have private insurance.
1. Three years ago I seriously tore my calf playing soccer and was taken to hospital with a suspected achillies injury. Emergency care involved paid medication, ct scan, c-rays, ultrasound. Full leg plaster and medications. cost - nothing.
2. I developed a serious stomach condition and was driven to the emergency centre in on of Perth's lagest public hospitals. I was admitted and spent 10 days in hospital - three days in the high dependancy unit with the first 24 hours in constant supervision. The rest of the time having drips and medication attended to around the clock. I was put under twice and had minor sugical probes, test etc. Once discharged I was a day patent once a month for about 6 months. Cost: free
3. I Needed to undergo some surgery for an item related to my previous hospital visit that was not considered urgent, but important. The waiting list on the Medicate system was about 3-6 months. The solution, I just paid the surgeon upfront for a private consult but asked him to place me as a public patient. I was operated on three weeks later. Three days in hospital, two months of ongoing pain and infection/anti-inflam meds. Cost - about $70.
All systems have their faults, but with a few fine tuned legislative moves, I think we've got it pretty good.
i work with it every day and i can tell you that you DO NOT want it running something as massive and complicated as healthcare!
I hear you here. I think the American Policial system is where the fault actually lies. Lobbyists, earmarks, pork barrelling hamper good and affordable schemes and bloat them with levels of waste. But spending priorities also play a picture.
I feel military spending and two wars must be killing the US tax payer or treasury. Without commenting on the validity of the wars or politics of military spending, running such a massive and technologically advanced military must cost a fortune. Remember, it bankrupted the Soviet Union. Is it sustainable for USA to have such a massive fighting force?
But here are some examples of my health care. I don't have private insurance.
1. Three years ago I seriously tore my calf playing soccer and was taken to hospital with a suspected achillies injury. Emergency care involved paid medication, ct scan, c-rays, ultrasound. Full leg plaster and medications. cost - nothing.
2. I developed a serious stomach condition and was driven to the emergency centre in on of Perth's lagest public hospitals. I was admitted and spent 10 days in hospital - three days in the high dependancy unit with the first 24 hours in constant supervision. The rest of the time having drips and medication attended to around the clock. I was put under twice and had minor sugical probes, test etc. Once discharged I was a day patent once a month for about 6 months. Cost: free
3. I Needed to undergo some surgery for an item related to my previous hospital visit that was not considered urgent, but important. The waiting list on the Medicate system was about 3-6 months. The solution, I just paid the surgeon upfront for a private consult but asked him to place me as a public patient. I was operated on three weeks later. Three days in hospital, two months of ongoing pain and infection/anti-inflam meds. Cost - about $70.
All systems have their faults, but with a few fine tuned legislative moves, I think we've got it pretty good.
So it seems that you are only concerend with what it cost you. There is no free lunch, someone had to foot the bill. I'd rather take responsibility for my self, than expect a socialized nanny state to take care of me. I'm not refering specifically to Australia.
i work with it every day and i can tell you that you DO NOT want it running something as massive and complicated as healthcare!
I hear you here. I think the American Policial system is where the fault actually lies. Lobbyists, earmarks, pork barrelling hamper good and affordable schemes and bloat them with levels of waste. But spending priorities also play a picture.
I feel military spending and two wars must be killing the US tax payer or treasury. Without commenting on the validity of the wars or politics of military spending, running such a massive and technologically advanced military must cost a fortune. Remember, it bankrupted the Soviet Union. Is it sustainable for USA to have such a massive fighting force?
not to get off topic, but:
the problem is people actually think that the US is "running two wars". when they hear that they think something akin to vietnam or WWII. the fact is, we are involved in 2 counterinsurgencies. i hear folks conflate the meaning of the word "war"every day, and it drive me nuts. afgh and iraq are not wars ....they never were. I highly doubt the US will ever see conventional war again. most of them money being spent is not for operational purposes, but rather capability based spending, meaning that it goes to R&D, and future warfighter functional analyses. it's all very complicated, but take my word for it as somebody who's in the middle of all of this, the two major conflicts in which we're currently involved is in no way what's damaged our economy......not.even.close. most of the money that was spent in the last 8 years would have been budgeted anyway. if we had avoided iraq altogether could SOME of it have been used towards the economy?? of course. but you cannot secnod-guess yourself to death. what's done is done, so we'll see what happens ferom here on out.
i want everybody to have good HC. hell my premiums went up this year too!!! im never sick and yet it feels like too much of my paycheck goes to a ridiculous insurance premium, the benefits of which i never use!
So it seems that you are only concerend with what it cost you. There is no free lunch, someone had to foot the bill. I'd rather take responsibility for my self, than expect a socialized nanny state to take care of me. I'm not refering specifically to Australia.
I'm not advocating the nanny state. I pay for my heathcare automatically through the taxation system via a medicare levy. I'm more than happy for this levy to rise if needed to cover increased costs or services. I mentioned cost because that is the number on thing I hear from Americans when we talk healthcare - the cost of getting sick, even if you are insured.
The standard of heathcare in the hospitals and through my gp with this system is outstanding, but admittedly not without its faults, and crisis, but still a very good system. Now that I am in my 40s i will probably take out private cover in the next few years.
We trust the governemnt to run a military, education, police, etc etc etc. Why is healthcare that much different?
the problem is people actually think that the US is "running two wars". when they hear that they think something akin to vietnam or WWII. the fact is, we are involved in 2 counterinsurgencies. i hear folks conflate the meaning of the word "war"every day, and it drive me nuts. afgh and iraq are not wars ....they never were.
Good point, but China is lending US the money for these operations.
I highly doubt the US will ever see conventional war again. most of them money being spent is not for operational purposes, but rather capability based spending, meaning that it goes to R&D, and future warfighter functional analyses.
And I'd imagine the spill over of technology originally developed for the military into mainstream life is a bonus of the R&D. But really the futility and stupidity of an arms race is incredible, has anyone told these nutters in power (world wide) this?
it's all very complicated, but take my word for it as somebody who's in the middle of all of this, the two major conflicts in which we're currently involved is in no way what's damaged our economy......not.even.close. most of the money that was spent in the last 8 years would have been budgeted anyway. if we had avoided iraq altogether could SOME of it have been used towards the economy?? of course. but you cannot secnod-guess yourself to death. what's done is done, so we'll see what happens ferom here on out.
One of my earliest memories of America was the national debt counter. This economic clusterfuck has been building up for decades. When combined with the criminal or questionable antics of banks, insurcance companies and traders on wall street - disaster was looming.
i want everybody to have good HC. hell my premiums went up this year too!!! im never sick and yet it feels like too much of my paycheck goes to a ridiculous insurance premium, the benefits of which i never use!
It is the healthy who always pay for the sick in almost any system. As Winston Churchill said: "In Communism, man oppresses man. In Capitalism, it's the other way around."
Comments
The fact Fox is the 'most trusted name in cable news' and the highest rating scares the shit out of me. Rupert Murdoch will do whatever he needs to make money. If there was more money in spruking far left ideology, he'd be doing it. The fact he has found a formula and team that has tapped in to a neglected demogrograph. He has dummed down the content, raised the 'sexiness' of the product, employed graphic artists, animators and music producers to make Fox News more like MTV and taken shock-jock talk radio to TV and it is working its butt off. Pure genius until you think of the damage this is doing to the political landscape and the damage this is doing to America by polarising thought or discrediting it altogether.
As a fairly frequent visitor to USA I can see the vast difference between the America I see and the one promoted by FOX. Their vision of the 'real America' is a scary and backward one indeed.
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
I just have to disagree with you. I live in DC, one of the most traditionally liberal areas of the country and I know people of ALL backgrounds, races, ethnicities etc who tell me they turn to Fox News. Remember, i work for the gov't so it's not simply a bunch of rich, white men that i interact with all day. People are fed up and reallllly sick of how the Obama admin and congress is handling this country. I have had NUMEROUS obama voters come to me (b/c they know im conservative) and say, "i wish i could take back my vote". you're obviously entitled to you opinion, but you're not a citizen and visintg the US often is nothing like living here and living WITH the actions of our gov't. btw, i was also critical of many things bush did while in office, so im not just toting the party line.
exaclty why i don't even set foot inside a moving train, but since somebody brought it up here, i thought i'd respond.
I thought the aircraft carrier joke was funny, because I understood it was a joke. The guy is funny, but his interviews are painful, he constantly cuts off anyone with an opposing view point, cracks a joke, and the audience goes wild. But you would be surprised at how many people don't understand that it is not real. You would be surprised at how many people believe everything they hear on TV. But really you shouldn't... look at our last presidential election.
Just because fox news doesn't promote your point of view, doesn't mean they are not fair and balanced. Maybe your point of view is unbalanced? Maybe since Fox news is the only right leaning news source out there, they are by definition the balance? Ever think of that?
Just like the political left will do whatever it needs for more power. Whether it's destroying an economy (global warming) or the healthcare system. Then they fly around in their private jets and aren't covered by the same healthcare they think is so great for us.
I don't doubt your free thinking and admit, not being a citizen does make me an interested outsider. I also can't really make judgement on Obama or his progress thus far. I'm still trying to get my head around the fact you guys don't want government healthcare. But from the outside looking in (and with a degree in media) i find fox news pure propaganda from a very ultra right wing and conservative point of view. The very construction of the narrative and positioning of the view on Fox is so blatant I's amazed people buy it. FOX - the WWE of News.
Then I'm placing the blame on you
Why would we want government healthcare? The government can't run anything correctly. Medicare is government health care, and it has the highest claim rejection rate by far when compared with those "evil" insurance companies. What country has a higher standard of care than the United States?
Man, almost every Western country has a better standard of healthcare system than the USA. We have social and private health insurance in Australia - no-one goes without. Englands NHS is better than the USA system. I'm fairly sure Mexico has a better system. The fault doesn't lie with socialised medicine, the fault lies with corrupt governments, greedy heath providers and insurance companies. Socialised heathcare can and does work fine in many countries, all with a higher standard of heathcare than USA.
Is that Ok with you guys?
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=769776790&n=2
Sure man, you're the 8-ball!!!
great time to be an American :?
http://seanbriceart.com/
greatest.post.ever.
hahahahahahahhaha on the massa joke!!!! rotfl!!!
What I'm really just saying is we have one party willing to play hardball because they know their demographic is rabid enough to stick by them regardles and the others constantly walking on egg shells in an effort to be the "people's party"... quite frankly - as dangerous and scheming as some make them out to be - most dems I know are more indifferent than anything... you piss them off and they're not gonna switch sides... theyre just gonna forget about the whole fuckin mess
http://seanbriceart.com/
Everyone feels like their side won't play down the other side, isn't aggressive enough, however you want to spell it.
enough with the "sides" and "teams"... it sounds trite, but cant we listen to ideas and have a discussion?... the founding fathers NEVER could've imagined this clusterfuck... wheres the checks and balances for the kind of party devotion we see these days?
http://seanbriceart.com/
You have got to be kidding, the British healthcare system is a joke! No country has a better standard of healthcare than the United States. That is why people come here to get the healthcare they can't get in their own countries, due to rationing. The quality of U.S. healthcare is second to none because of free market capitalism. It's simple supply and demand. If you want the best healthcare in the world, you have to pay for it. Instituting socialized medicine in the U.S. will just drag the quality of our health care down to the what the rest of the world has. Then where will you go for decent health care? I'm not saying that some reform is not in order, but we don't need socialized medicine. Again, if the program the Democrats are trying to ram down our throats is so great, why they exempt?
The real problem is not healthcare, it's personal responsibility. You don't need a flat screen TV, or to go see rock concerts. You need health care. People waste their money on what they want then expect the government to provide them what they need.
OK, here is the Worl Health Organisation ranking health care systems (circa 2000):
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
I'm going to hedge my response, by saying there's no doubt Fox News is bias.
But, as for healthcare, there's a few problems:
1) During the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression, during it... not after, our newly elected President was pushing a change in our healthcare system. Our unemployment rate rose more than 3% points in 2009 and yet... healthcare was his focal point. The last Democratic President tried to do this during an economic expansion and failed. I believe that our President should have been focusing on the economy and, personally, I'm pretty sure the majority of America agrees. When you are broke and out of work, is it smart to start contemplating how you will spend on your credit card even if it's for charity? The timing was simply put... awful.... regardless if healthcare is a public good or not. It was just not the time for this debate.
2) Yet, I have an opinion on healthcare.... I believe U.S. healthcare is very, very good. In my opinion, our specialists are without any doubt the best in the world. We spend more in our country on healthcare than any other country in the world. The problem, some say, is the percent of uninsured in our country. Even the uninsured will get care... classified as uncompensated care.... hospitals can not turn away someone who is uninsured and in need. I think the area where the U.S. healthcare system does not do as good of a job is before illness... meaning screenings and whatnot. The reason I believe this is the case is some choose to wait in the U.S. to see a doctor, which can sometimes lead to problems. But, if these problems do arise we have the best doctors to treat. One of the major reasons people wait in the U.S. is the costs to go to the doctor are high... why? Well, ummmm.... government. In the last 40 years, government share of healthcare in the U.S. has increased from 10% to 50%, while remaining elements of free market have fallen under increasing regulation.
3) There's problems with universal healthcare. First, it's government run. No offense, but the government does not do a good job running anything. In the U.S. I'd trust a profit maximizing firm over the government anyday. Why? Because there's a check against them. If this private firm doesn't do a good job, they will lose profit. The real problem with universal healthcare is it destroys healthcare specialists and creates shortages. It's simple economics. Clearly, when all are provided with healthcare, they are more likely to go to the doctor/hospital raising demand for healthcare, meanwhile doctors/hospitals can't cover the increased demand... in fact, the pool of doctors shrink... why?... the govt tries to control costs by reducing physician reimbursement.... so, doctors either leave the area under this regulated environment... OR... many don't become doctors at all.
In Canada, for instance, Canadians wait an average of 17 weeks for a referral to a specialist. In fact, Canadians spend more than $1 billion a year in,... guess.... the United States. Why? Because of our specialists. Recently, Canadian Supreme Court struck down the law forbidding private insurance "because access to a waiting list does not constitute access to health care." Britain is no better... Two years ago, many British hospitals stopped providing heart bypass surgery to smokers. The waiting lists were so long that they wanted to give priority to non-smokers who responded better to surgery. This year the British Medical Journal reports that physicians in the National Health Service are often no longer treating patients age 80 or over for strokes.
****So, are there problems in the U.S. system? Yes. Are the universal systems flawless? Absolutely not. Would I prefer our current system to a universal system? Yes. Should we have even been debating this in the past year? Absolutely not.
Obama has to put his government nipple back in his shirt. We don't want it.... we know we'll pay later. Just get the economy back on track.... and we'll love you.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
you've actually just proved our point here. that ranking applies to healthcare as provided by the government in each country. since healthcare in the US is almost entirely a privately run operation, our government has little effect on the HC system (aside from some regulation as to standards). i think what this list really tells me is that, if the govt played an even larger role in HC, then we'd be even further down the list. when you allow for competition in the free market, you inevitibly get a better product, and, a race to the bottom in terms of prices (or in this case premiums). if people can select which insurer would give them the best deal, they'll ultimately be better off. imagine it like a care dealership. the last time i bought a new car i went to 4 or 5 dealers to see who would cut me the best deal. now imagine if only the gov't was allowed to sell cars....you'd have to pay whatever they asked, and you'd never know what kind of a deal you were getting. not to mention that once an entity has complete control over an industry, they can begin to reduce the quality of their product and hike prices b/c there is no competition. this is why have anit-monopoly regulations and policies. under obama's plan there would be one, big, all encompassing monopoly.....the federal gov't!!!
i work with it every day and i can tell you that you DO NOT want it running something as massive and complicated as healthcare!
The Australian system:
A basic government system that you pay for through taxation (means tested) about 1% to 3%. Medicare covers pretty much everything but for non life threatening conditions, elective surgery, you do go on a waiting list (and these lists are political dynamite). Emergency care is included in this. GP visits are also included although most GPs in Australia charge over the medicare rebate - I normally end up paying about $15 for a doctor visit to my GP. I can go to a hospital for free medical services. No-one is turned away from a hospital.
A second system of private insurace. The government offers a tax rebate 30% and you can join whatever plan you wish with whatever insurance company you wish. This is a poersonal choice- employers do not have anything to do with your healthcare (unless they offer it as a perk - few do). You as an individual or family join a health insurance plan. This covers elective surgery, dental and so on. There is rarely a waiting list, you choose your specialist/doctor and accept the contitions cost as stated in yoru plan.
I'm sure there are more fine print than I've just explained.
We have public hostpitals and private hospitals. While the private hospitals are much nicer, better resourced and more like a hotel than a public hospital, I've had nothing but good experiences in public hospitals. A number of Nobel prize winners and gorundbreaking researchers work in my closest major public hospitals. My daughter was born in a country public hospital and the standard of care for mother and child was brilliant.
But here are some examples of my health care. I don't have private insurance.
1. Three years ago I seriously tore my calf playing soccer and was taken to hospital with a suspected achillies injury. Emergency care involved paid medication, ct scan, c-rays, ultrasound. Full leg plaster and medications. cost - nothing.
2. I developed a serious stomach condition and was driven to the emergency centre in on of Perth's lagest public hospitals. I was admitted and spent 10 days in hospital - three days in the high dependancy unit with the first 24 hours in constant supervision. The rest of the time having drips and medication attended to around the clock. I was put under twice and had minor sugical probes, test etc. Once discharged I was a day patent once a month for about 6 months. Cost: free
3. I Needed to undergo some surgery for an item related to my previous hospital visit that was not considered urgent, but important. The waiting list on the Medicate system was about 3-6 months. The solution, I just paid the surgeon upfront for a private consult but asked him to place me as a public patient. I was operated on three weeks later. Three days in hospital, two months of ongoing pain and infection/anti-inflam meds. Cost - about $70.
All systems have their faults, but with a few fine tuned legislative moves, I think we've got it pretty good.
I hear you here. I think the American Policial system is where the fault actually lies. Lobbyists, earmarks, pork barrelling hamper good and affordable schemes and bloat them with levels of waste. But spending priorities also play a picture.
I feel military spending and two wars must be killing the US tax payer or treasury. Without commenting on the validity of the wars or politics of military spending, running such a massive and technologically advanced military must cost a fortune. Remember, it bankrupted the Soviet Union. Is it sustainable for USA to have such a massive fighting force?
So it seems that you are only concerend with what it cost you. There is no free lunch, someone had to foot the bill. I'd rather take responsibility for my self, than expect a socialized nanny state to take care of me. I'm not refering specifically to Australia.
W.H.O. rankings are worthless as has been already pointed out.
not to get off topic, but:
the problem is people actually think that the US is "running two wars". when they hear that they think something akin to vietnam or WWII. the fact is, we are involved in 2 counterinsurgencies. i hear folks conflate the meaning of the word "war"every day, and it drive me nuts. afgh and iraq are not wars ....they never were. I highly doubt the US will ever see conventional war again. most of them money being spent is not for operational purposes, but rather capability based spending, meaning that it goes to R&D, and future warfighter functional analyses. it's all very complicated, but take my word for it as somebody who's in the middle of all of this, the two major conflicts in which we're currently involved is in no way what's damaged our economy......not.even.close. most of the money that was spent in the last 8 years would have been budgeted anyway. if we had avoided iraq altogether could SOME of it have been used towards the economy?? of course. but you cannot secnod-guess yourself to death. what's done is done, so we'll see what happens ferom here on out.
i want everybody to have good HC. hell my premiums went up this year too!!! im never sick and yet it feels like too much of my paycheck goes to a ridiculous insurance premium, the benefits of which i never use!
I'm not advocating the nanny state. I pay for my heathcare automatically through the taxation system via a medicare levy. I'm more than happy for this levy to rise if needed to cover increased costs or services. I mentioned cost because that is the number on thing I hear from Americans when we talk healthcare - the cost of getting sick, even if you are insured.
The standard of heathcare in the hospitals and through my gp with this system is outstanding, but admittedly not without its faults, and crisis, but still a very good system. Now that I am in my 40s i will probably take out private cover in the next few years.
We trust the governemnt to run a military, education, police, etc etc etc. Why is healthcare that much different?
All aboard!!!!
The Thread needs to hop on the moving train.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=769776790&n=2
Good point, but China is lending US the money for these operations.
And I'd imagine the spill over of technology originally developed for the military into mainstream life is a bonus of the R&D. But really the futility and stupidity of an arms race is incredible, has anyone told these nutters in power (world wide) this?
One of my earliest memories of America was the national debt counter. This economic clusterfuck has been building up for decades. When combined with the criminal or questionable antics of banks, insurcance companies and traders on wall street - disaster was looming.
It is the healthy who always pay for the sick in almost any system. As Winston Churchill said: "In Communism, man oppresses man. In Capitalism, it's the other way around."