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Album AND EP? Why not just a longer album?

Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
edited February 2010 in The Porch
Backspacer is 38 minutes long, give or take. Ed has said he doesn't want the leftover songs pimped out as b-sides, which means to me they are as strong as the other tracks. Why two releases? Why not just put all the songs on the album?

This doesn't make any sense to me. I guess you could argue, depending what the songs sound like, that they didn't flow with the rest of the record, but we won't know that until/if we ever hear them. But if it's not album flow, what would it be?

And I highly doubt it's about making more money, for those of you that will default to the "PJ is greedy" response.
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  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    that's what they wanted to do
  • BeerBaronBeerBaron Posts: 4,097
    We may not get a 2nd release. The band has never officially said that another release was in its way.
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  • Better DanBetter Dan Posts: 5,684
    norm wrote:
    that's what they wanted to do


    Best response possible.
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  • LukinFanLukinFan Posts: 29,040
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  • satansbedsatansbed Posts: 2,139
    DS114969 wrote:
    norm wrote:
    that's what they wanted to do


    Best response possible.
    LukinFan wrote:
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    worst response possible ;)
  • Mindless DrifterMindless Drifter Posts: 210
    some songs jus wouldnt fit with the flow of the album and an ep is just a cool fucking idea

    backspacer is perfect as it is foo! :mrgreen:
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,549
    Johnny Sitar wrote:
    Backspacer is 38 minutes long, give or take. Ed has said he doesn't want the leftover songs pimped out as b-sides, which means to me they are as strong as the other tracks. Why two releases? Why not just put all the songs on the album?

    This doesn't make any sense to me. I guess you could argue, depending what the songs sound like, that they didn't flow with the rest of the record, but we won't know that until/if we ever hear them. But if it's not album flow, what would it be?

    And I highly doubt it's about making more money, for those of you that will default to the "PJ is greedy" response.
    for make people to wonder why they did it
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  • FirstExitFirstExit Posts: 973
    Because when you release an album, it's releasing a piece of art. Releasing an album is so much more than picking your favorite songs out of a whole bunch of studio sessions and throwing them on a disc. Albums have a message, and the only way to get that message across is with the correct use of songs. If you're painting a picture, you're not gonna make the canvas bigger just because you have a whole bunch of left over paint, are you?
  • bry321f11bry321f11 Posts: 326
    FirstExit wrote:
    Because when you release an album, it's releasing a piece of art. Releasing an album is so much more than picking your favorite songs out of a whole bunch of studio sessions and throwing them on a disc. Albums have a message, and the only way to get that message across is with the correct use of songs. If you're painting a picture, you're not gonna make the canvas bigger just because you have a whole bunch of left over paint, are you?


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  • SomethingCreativeSomethingCreative Posts: 3,371
    FirstExit wrote:
    Because when you release an album, it's releasing a piece of art. Releasing an album is so much more than picking your favorite songs out of a whole bunch of studio sessions and throwing them on a disc. Albums have a message, and the only way to get that message across is with the correct use of songs. If you're painting a picture, you're not gonna make the canvas bigger just because you have a whole bunch of left over paint, are you?

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  • mrshock13mrshock13 Posts: 472
    You could even look at this idea with Lost Dogs. Going through those tracks, there are many that all of us would think that should have been on the main album. What it comes to is that the song just doesn't flow with the direction the album is going, like Sad not truly fitting in with the decidedly less mainstream Binaural, Alone not making it onto Ten, etc. It comes down to the the guys really picking the songs they believe that conveys the ideas, thoughts, feelings, etc. that they're are presenting in the complete, final package.
  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    FirstExit wrote:
    Because when you release an album, it's releasing a piece of art. Releasing an album is so much more than picking your favorite songs out of a whole bunch of studio sessions and throwing them on a disc. Albums have a message, and the only way to get that message across is with the correct use of songs. If you're painting a picture, you're not gonna make the canvas bigger just because you have a whole bunch of left over paint, are you?

    I would agree with that, but only in the context of a concept album. Eddie has been known to purposely keep radio-friendly tracks off their previous albums, so in effect, he was doing exactly what you said shouldn't be done (just in a skewed way), thus sort of proving my point.

    Also, why even bother releasing the B-sides at all then, if they don't go along with the message?

    Also, a painting is usually ONE piece of art. An album is a collection of art pieces, so it's quite different. I know this, I am also a musician/songwriter (as I'm sure many on here are). Backspacer, as it stands now, does not have one central theme, thus rendering the "message" theory a bit moot. Maybe if you were talking about The Wall, or Quadrophenia, or Dark Side Of The Moon, maybe, but I see no central theme on BS.

    If the EP songs SOUND like something completely different, then that would make sense. But then maybe THEY all wouldn't flow together, right?
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  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    BeerBaron wrote:
    We may not get a 2nd release. The band has never officially said that another release was in its way.

    you are correct. this is all conjecture.
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  • veddertownveddertown Posts: 5,260
    Sorry to be so basic about it but Riot Act had 15 songs on it and although that wasn't all the songs recorded during the sessions it was too long for some and I'm only really starting to judge it as a classic and appreciate it now. I spent too long thinking Riot Act had too much filler and although I like the songs it is still too long. Backspacer is a great slice of American rock music and a fine collection of songs. It worked for REM with Accelerate and it's worked for PJ with Backspacer. Who is to say that the EP songs are even leftovers? PJ could have easily written new material on the road and we might not see all the potential B-sides from the last few albums for a long time yet.
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  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    veddertown wrote:
    Sorry to be so basic about it but Riot Act had 15 songs on it and although that wasn't all the songs recorded during the sessions it was too long for some and I'm only really starting to judge it as a classic and appreciate it now. I spent too long thinking Riot Act had too much filler and although I like the songs it is still too long. Backspacer is a great slice of American rock music and a fine collection of songs. It worked for REM with Accelerate and it's worked for PJ with Backspacer. Who is to say that the EP songs are even leftovers? PJ could have easily written new material on the road and we might not see all the potential B-sides from the last few albums for a long time yet.

    yes, I like Backspacer too (listening to it as I type). My only points were:

    a) it's only 38 minutes long, leaving much room for more music
    b) Ed said the songs that didn't make the album are too good to be pimped out as b-sides.

    I still don't buy the cohesive piece of art argument, because to me, a few of these seem pretty clearly to be ITW leftovers. I love leftovers, by the way. Who knows. I was just curious.
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  • DeetroitBaasketballDeetroitBaasketball Posts: 379
    Johnny Sitar wrote:
    veddertown wrote:
    Sorry to be so basic about it but Riot Act had 15 songs on it and although that wasn't all the songs recorded during the sessions it was too long for some and I'm only really starting to judge it as a classic and appreciate it now. I spent too long thinking Riot Act had too much filler and although I like the songs it is still too long. Backspacer is a great slice of American rock music and a fine collection of songs. It worked for REM with Accelerate and it's worked for PJ with Backspacer. Who is to say that the EP songs are even leftovers? PJ could have easily written new material on the road and we might not see all the potential B-sides from the last few albums for a long time yet.

    yes, I like Backspacer too (listening to it as I type). My only points were:

    a) it's only 38 minutes long, leaving much room for more music
    b) Ed said the songs that didn't make the album are too good to be pimped out as b-sides.

    I still don't buy the cohesive piece of art argument, because to me, a few of these seem pretty clearly to be ITW leftovers. I love leftovers, by the way. Who knows. I was just curious.

    Didn't Ed write ITW to the scenes of the movie? If that was the case they wouldn't necessarily be leftovers (but I suppose it's possible). Obviously "Just Breathe" and "The End" have the same style. I like the cohesiveness argument - it makes sense. Maybe they just flipped a lot of coins?

    Also, while there hasn't been an "official" announcement, McCready talking about doing an EP in an interview makes this discussion valid.
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    Johnny Sitar wrote:
    veddertown wrote:
    Sorry to be so basic about it but Riot Act had 15 songs on it and although that wasn't all the songs recorded during the sessions it was too long for some and I'm only really starting to judge it as a classic and appreciate it now. I spent too long thinking Riot Act had too much filler and although I like the songs it is still too long. Backspacer is a great slice of American rock music and a fine collection of songs. It worked for REM with Accelerate and it's worked for PJ with Backspacer. Who is to say that the EP songs are even leftovers? PJ could have easily written new material on the road and we might not see all the potential B-sides from the last few albums for a long time yet.

    yes, I like Backspacer too (listening to it as I type). My only points were:

    a) it's only 38 minutes long, leaving much room for more music
    b) Ed said the songs that didn't make the album are too good to be pimped out as b-sides.

    I still don't buy the cohesive piece of art argument, because to me, a few of these seem pretty clearly to be ITW leftovers. I love leftovers, by the way. Who knows. I was just curious.


    just breathe and the end were written during the backspacer sessions
  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    DeetroitBaasketball wrote:

    Didn't Ed write ITW to the scenes of the movie? If that was the case they wouldn't necessarily be leftovers (but I suppose it's possible). Obviously "Just Breathe" and "The End" have the same style. I like the cohesiveness argument - it makes sense. Maybe they just flipped a lot of coins?

    Also, while there hasn't been an "official" announcement, McCready talking about doing an EP in an interview makes this discussion valid.

    if he did, I didn't know that. And that's why he couldn't be up for an Oscar for the soundtrack, because it wasn't written specifically for the movie, from what I understood.

    Yes, the songs being cohesive (sounding somewhat similar) makes sense. A core message of an album, at least in the context of Backspacer, I don't believe applies.
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  • veddertownveddertown Posts: 5,260
    Johnny Sitar wrote:
    veddertown wrote:
    Sorry to be so basic about it but Riot Act had 15 songs on it and although that wasn't all the songs recorded during the sessions it was too long for some and I'm only really starting to judge it as a classic and appreciate it now. I spent too long thinking Riot Act had too much filler and although I like the songs it is still too long. Backspacer is a great slice of American rock music and a fine collection of songs. It worked for REM with Accelerate and it's worked for PJ with Backspacer. Who is to say that the EP songs are even leftovers? PJ could have easily written new material on the road and we might not see all the potential B-sides from the last few albums for a long time yet.

    yes, I like Backspacer too (listening to it as I type). My only points were:

    a) it's only 38 minutes long, leaving much room for more music
    b) Ed said the songs that didn't make the album are too good to be pimped out as b-sides.

    I still don't buy the cohesive piece of art argument, because to me, a few of these seem pretty clearly to be ITW leftovers. I love leftovers, by the way. Who knows. I was just curious.

    Yeah I must admit I love a PJ album to be closer to the hour mark but if all the songs had been on it there would be more to criticize and they obviously weren't happy to put it all on the same disc. At least we got a good 38 minutes (apart from Supersonic, sorry). We can only look forward to what's in store and no, I don't really go along with the cohesive art argument either. I do miss B-sides though :(
    Like a book among the many on a shelf...

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  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    veddertown wrote:
    Johnny Sitar wrote:
    veddertown wrote:
    Sorry to be so basic about it but Riot Act had 15 songs on it and although that wasn't all the songs recorded during the sessions it was too long for some and I'm only really starting to judge it as a classic and appreciate it now. I spent too long thinking Riot Act had too much filler and although I like the songs it is still too long. Backspacer is a great slice of American rock music and a fine collection of songs. It worked for REM with Accelerate and it's worked for PJ with Backspacer. Who is to say that the EP songs are even leftovers? PJ could have easily written new material on the road and we might not see all the potential B-sides from the last few albums for a long time yet.

    yes, I like Backspacer too (listening to it as I type). My only points were:

    a) it's only 38 minutes long, leaving much room for more music
    b) Ed said the songs that didn't make the album are too good to be pimped out as b-sides.

    I still don't buy the cohesive piece of art argument, because to me, a few of these seem pretty clearly to be ITW leftovers. I love leftovers, by the way. Who knows. I was just curious.

    Yeah I must admit I love a PJ album to be closer to the hour mark but if all the songs had been on it there would be more to criticize and they obviously weren't happy to put it all on the same disc. At least we got a good 38 minutes (apart from Supersonic, sorry). We can only look forward to what's in store and no, I don't really go along with the cohesive art argument either. I do miss B-sides though :(

    I LOVE SUPERSONIC! :o
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  • LedbetterdaysLedbetterdays Posts: 555
    MIke and Ed have both talked about their fondness for the shorter records in the 80s. I think there was a desire to make the album and therefore the songs shorter. That is the central theme. Ed talked about just wanting to get to the chorus in songs and that he learned a lot from the the Into the Wild sessions.
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  • 12345AGNST112345AGNST1 Posts: 4,906
    Mindless Drifter wrote:
    some songs jus wouldnt fit with the flow of the album and an ep is just a cool fucking idea

    backspacer is perfect as it is foo! :mrgreen:

    TBH i dont even really think the 2nd half of backspacer flows too well. Supersonic to SoS is a little weird.
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  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,483
    Has there been any official or credible information re: the EP?
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    With that logic, Vs. and Vitalogy should have been one album.


    Same with No Code and Yield.
  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    Has there been any official or credible information re: the EP?

    only Mike and Ed saying it was a possibility in two seperate interviews, I believe, but to be honest, we all know that it means nothing until we see it on the shelves.
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  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    Ledbetterdays wrote:
    MIke and Ed have both talked about their fondness for the shorter records in the 80s. I think there was a desire to make the album and therefore the songs shorter. That is the central theme. Ed talked about just wanting to get to the chorus in songs and that he learned a lot from the the Into the Wild sessions.

    interesting, I did not know that. thanks for the info.
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  • Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    With that logic, Vs. and Vitalogy should have been one album.


    Same with No Code and Yield.

    ummm......WHAT?
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  • hopethatuchokehopethatuchoke Posts: 2,927
    $$$$$
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,483
    Johnny Sitar wrote:
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    Has there been any official or credible information re: the EP?

    only Mike and Ed saying it was a possibility in two seperate interviews, I believe, but to be honest, we all know that it means nothing until we see it on the shelves.


    All this debate and conjecture regarding something that may not even exist?
  • KingJeremyDKingJeremyD Posts: 2,313
    I am pretty sure the ep will be released eventually....If pearl jam is indeed going to play some of the ep tracks at a festival in Europe..When is the last time you heard a pearl jam track live in cocnert..That wasn't available to purchase on compact disc...You can bet your bottom dollar...Pearl Jam will make the ep available to purchase....Pearl Jam doesn't have a major record label backing them up now...I am sure they will be more than happy to make some moeny of this ep..I am shocked philly boots aren't available..Knowing they would make a killing off them...I still think they will be available some day in the future..{Philly boots or at least one of the shows}


    Jeremy
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