With certain things in life, like your health, yes I do feel this way. There are certain things we control and certain things we do not. You don't agree with me, and I don't discount your right to have sympathy or empathy in that scenario, but do not tell me I have to agree or view it in the same manner or there is something wrong with me. That is a load of crap and nothing more. Also, you can keep all of you psychological analysis to yourself as none of it pointed at me is close to correct.
So you are discounting all of clinical pyschology then, yes? Ask any counselor or pyschologist (which you might want to do actually) if wishing cancer and death upon all smokers, including family members and friends, is a normal way to feel. It IS indicative of a problem, and I bet my house and car that ANY licensed therapist would agree. But hey, whatever gets you to sleep at night. I can't belabor the point any more and I won't be responding to any more posts in this thread. Despite your wish of death upon me, I genuinely wish you the best in life. Good luck.
FiveB247x:
If you consider psychology junk science, and follow with an admission of zero empathy for addicts, you’ve pre-dismissed any legit counterpoint that could be made. I feel empathy for both the smoker AND their families. You ask why we apply our judgment to you, and not smokers? Simple. Smokers aren’t wishing death on you. If they were, I’d be judging them, not you. They don’t wish harm to their loved ones either (unlike you), regardless of how heartless you think they are for continuing maladaptive practices.
A smoker getting cancer is not justice, and a cancer diagnosis does not make one accountable for their actions. Cancer is not a certainty… Is it just for someone who started smoking at 11 to get cancer at 20, while others smoke into their 90’s? Oh, right…for you, justice would mean they both get it, and good riddance.
As for accountability…by your logic, nicotine addicts should HOPE for cancer if they think accountability is a moral responsibility. getting cancer is just the right thing for them to do, right? Brilliant. Accountability in this sense is a total misnomer.
Your crack and heroin examples: what about people who abuse MORE acceptable things like caffeine, high-fat food, painkillers, anti-depressants, sex, internet, diet supplements, exercise etc. These addictions all have well documented heath risks, or negative effects on your social well-being. Do all of those people DESERVE to die, and good riddance? Does a depressed person DESERVE to die because, like a smoker who doesn’t acknowledge the impacts of their actions on those around them, their world view is skewed? Or do you want to make some more exemptions to your original statement?
From my POV, the irony here is that you seem to be trying to champion ‘those left behind’…yet when I imagine you having the stones to make your first statement to the face of anyone I know who’s lost a smoking loved one to cancer (which I doubt you would)…I can’t help but think that they’d be the ones most likely to break your nose for disrespecting both the dead, and their feelings. Even IF your heart is in the right place (which you’ve convinced me it’s not), your approach is flat-out WRONG.
Wishing death upon a large demographic cannot be spun to any reasonable, logical conclusion, no matter how hard you try.
Once again, you're attempting to poorly cast clinical psychology upon me. Please do so on those who are actually doing the bad habits. You harp on my commentary and opinion, yet have yet to speak or utter a word about them - the one's actually creating these self-inflicted problems. Once you do this, something you've yet to acknowledge, I'll be more than happy to discuss my own personal viewpoint.
So you are discounting all of clinical pyschology then, yes? Ask any counselor or pyschologist (which you might want to do actually) if wishing cancer and death upon all smokers, including family members and friends, is a normal way to feel. It IS indicative of a problem, and I bet my house and car that ANY licensed therapist would agree. But hey, whatever gets you to sleep at night. I can't belabor the point any more and I won't be responding to any more posts in this thread. Despite your wish of death upon me, I genuinely wish you the best in life. Good luck.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You are knitting picking on side-note issues rather than acknowledging my main point - cause/effect, responsibility and accountability. You can whine all day about whether you think my logic is cruel, uncaring or similar, but you've yet to acknowledge the same analysis on the people making these decisions which causes their problems and problems for their loved ones.
FiveB247x:
If you consider psychology junk science, and follow with an admission of zero empathy for addicts, you’ve pre-dismissed any legit counterpoint that could be made. I feel empathy for both the smoker AND their families. You ask why we apply our judgment to you, and not smokers? Simple. Smokers aren’t wishing death on you. If they were, I’d be judging them, not you. They don’t wish harm to their loved ones either (unlike you), regardless of how heartless you think they are for continuing maladaptive practices.
A smoker getting cancer is not justice, and a cancer diagnosis does not make one accountable for their actions. Cancer is not a certainty… Is it just for someone who started smoking at 11 to get cancer at 20, while others smoke into their 90’s? Oh, right…for you, justice would mean they both get it, and good riddance.
As for accountability…by your logic, nicotine addicts should HOPE for cancer if they think accountability is a moral responsibility. getting cancer is just the right thing for them to do, right? Brilliant. Accountability in this sense is a total misnomer.
Your crack and heroin examples: what about people who abuse MORE acceptable things like caffeine, high-fat food, painkillers, anti-depressants, sex, internet, diet supplements, exercise etc. These addictions all have well documented heath risks, or negative effects on your social well-being. Do all of those people DESERVE to die, and good riddance? Does a depressed person DESERVE to die because, like a smoker who doesn’t acknowledge the impacts of their actions on those around them, their world view is skewed? Or do you want to make some more exemptions to your original statement?
From my POV, the irony here is that you seem to be trying to champion ‘those left behind’…yet when I imagine you having the stones to make your first statement to the face of anyone I know who’s lost a smoking loved one to cancer (which I doubt you would)…I can’t help but think that they’d be the ones most likely to break your nose for disrespecting both the dead, and their feelings. Even IF your heart is in the right place (which you’ve convinced me it’s not), your approach is flat-out WRONG.
Wishing death upon a large demographic cannot be spun to any reasonable, logical conclusion, no matter how hard you try.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You are knitting picking on side-note issues rather than acknowledging my main point - cause/effect, responsibility and accountability. You can whine all day about whether you think my logic is cruel, uncaring or similar, but you've yet to acknowledge the same analysis on the people making these decisions which causes their problems and problems for their loved ones.
If I'm nit-picking, you're sidestepping. I'm breaking your logic down into more palatable bites....yet it still tastes like shit; you're avoiding any critical analysis of your stance.
I acknowledge your analysis, and say straight up in the first paragraph that I don't think it applies to smokers. If you need me to elaborate further: it's because their is no intent to harm their loved ones, and no sense of 'justice being served' when they do so. Ignorance or a sense of invulnerability impact the cause and effect side, sure. But their actions are not a result of not caring, or thinking anyone deserves harm. They do not sit there and think 'fuck my friends and family - they deserve to suffer if I die'....by rights, you wishing death and cancer on these people is also wishing harm on their friends and families, so despite your claims of empathy, you’re no better than the smokers – in fact; you’re worse because you are showing intent.
So to be clear and concise, you think it is ok to willingly and knowingly abuse your health for extreme vices when you know what the long term effects will be and this is not somehow insulting or some sort of scale to your own self-value, family or friends? Really? Seriously? This is ok or somehow acceptable behavior or mindset for people? Sounds like nothing but an excuse ridden answer for unacceptable behavior and a poor plausibility for people excusing their terrible, adult decisions. All this issue amounts too is cause and effect. If you do x, y will happen. You want to sit here and make excuses for people making these decisions and not acknowledge their decisions and repercussions of making them. I really don't care what you think of me or my opinions otherwise. I do not think I'm better than anyone or above anyone in any sense - I like anyone else am responsible for my decisions and live with the repercussions of them - but if I follow you're logic, I guess I really don't have too.. huh?
Also, you're very good at using all this rational about logic, decision making and similar. Please further discuss these topics in regards to the people doing these poor habits. The kind of people who do these bad habits, know the results, yet choose to ignore them, or do them besides the fact of having families, etc. What does this say about the rational of these people? Not very much huh?
If I'm nit-picking, you're sidestepping. I'm breaking your logic down into more palatable bites....yet it still tastes like shit; you're avoiding any critical analysis of your stance.
I acknowledge your analysis, and say straight up in the first paragraph that I don't think it applies to smokers. If you need me to elaborate further: it's because their is no intent to harm their loved ones, and no sense of 'justice being served' when they do so. Ignorance or a sense of invulnerability impact the cause and effect side, sure. But their actions are not a result of not caring, or thinking anyone deserves harm. They do not sit there and think 'fuck my friends and family - they deserve to suffer if I die'....by rights, you wishing death and cancer on these people is also wishing harm on their friends and families, so despite your claims of empathy, you’re no better than the smokers – in fact; you’re worse because you are showing intent.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Comments
So you are discounting all of clinical pyschology then, yes? Ask any counselor or pyschologist (which you might want to do actually) if wishing cancer and death upon all smokers, including family members and friends, is a normal way to feel. It IS indicative of a problem, and I bet my house and car that ANY licensed therapist would agree. But hey, whatever gets you to sleep at night. I can't belabor the point any more and I won't be responding to any more posts in this thread. Despite your wish of death upon me, I genuinely wish you the best in life. Good luck.
If you consider psychology junk science, and follow with an admission of zero empathy for addicts, you’ve pre-dismissed any legit counterpoint that could be made. I feel empathy for both the smoker AND their families. You ask why we apply our judgment to you, and not smokers? Simple. Smokers aren’t wishing death on you. If they were, I’d be judging them, not you. They don’t wish harm to their loved ones either (unlike you), regardless of how heartless you think they are for continuing maladaptive practices.
A smoker getting cancer is not justice, and a cancer diagnosis does not make one accountable for their actions. Cancer is not a certainty… Is it just for someone who started smoking at 11 to get cancer at 20, while others smoke into their 90’s? Oh, right…for you, justice would mean they both get it, and good riddance.
As for accountability…by your logic, nicotine addicts should HOPE for cancer if they think accountability is a moral responsibility. getting cancer is just the right thing for them to do, right? Brilliant. Accountability in this sense is a total misnomer.
Your crack and heroin examples: what about people who abuse MORE acceptable things like caffeine, high-fat food, painkillers, anti-depressants, sex, internet, diet supplements, exercise etc. These addictions all have well documented heath risks, or negative effects on your social well-being. Do all of those people DESERVE to die, and good riddance? Does a depressed person DESERVE to die because, like a smoker who doesn’t acknowledge the impacts of their actions on those around them, their world view is skewed? Or do you want to make some more exemptions to your original statement?
From my POV, the irony here is that you seem to be trying to champion ‘those left behind’…yet when I imagine you having the stones to make your first statement to the face of anyone I know who’s lost a smoking loved one to cancer (which I doubt you would)…I can’t help but think that they’d be the ones most likely to break your nose for disrespecting both the dead, and their feelings. Even IF your heart is in the right place (which you’ve convinced me it’s not), your approach is flat-out WRONG.
Wishing death upon a large demographic cannot be spun to any reasonable, logical conclusion, no matter how hard you try.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I acknowledge your analysis, and say straight up in the first paragraph that I don't think it applies to smokers. If you need me to elaborate further: it's because their is no intent to harm their loved ones, and no sense of 'justice being served' when they do so. Ignorance or a sense of invulnerability impact the cause and effect side, sure. But their actions are not a result of not caring, or thinking anyone deserves harm. They do not sit there and think 'fuck my friends and family - they deserve to suffer if I die'....by rights, you wishing death and cancer on these people is also wishing harm on their friends and families, so despite your claims of empathy, you’re no better than the smokers – in fact; you’re worse because you are showing intent.
Also, you're very good at using all this rational about logic, decision making and similar. Please further discuss these topics in regards to the people doing these poor habits. The kind of people who do these bad habits, know the results, yet choose to ignore them, or do them besides the fact of having families, etc. What does this say about the rational of these people? Not very much huh?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis