5. How in hell are most smokers "considerate" of non-smokers?
yes I'm a smoker....damn it I'm trying to quit :x
people that know know that if they don't smoke I will not be close enough to them to bother
them with my smoke,it's called being considerate.
but the last thing any smoker wants is someone talking shit about them because they smoke..
if I'm having a cig and I'm alone and you don't smoke stay away from me simple as that..
don't ask me to put my cig out just for you,last time that happened I told them to leave.
there are a whole lot of thing's worse to worry about than somebody that doesn't conform to a
non smoker's world..welcome to the smoker's world they live here too
it is a nasty smell no doubt but then again so is body oder...you the type,not real up on their hygiene :shock:
So do you think people should be able to smoke indoors at every workplace?
Also, I find your qualifier of "within the law" to be somewhat contrary to your argument. The law regulates workplace safety measures, and removing the risk is always more effective than wearing personal protection equipment. Why should the law be able to regulate other health and safety issues but not secondhand smoke?
No, not every workplace. Public places; specifically adult-only places, where it is an adult decision to be there.
What about restaurants (which aren't adult-only places but where smoking is usually allowed)? What about offices buildings (which usually are adult-only places, but where smoking is banned)?
Within the law is not contrary at all. Just walking around a construction site is dangerous...just about every action has a potentially unsafe consequence. OHS DOES regulate these actions to minimize the risk, as they could with smoking. Instead, it's mob rules, fuck the minory. I think if a smoker wants to open a smoking bar, make his hires aware of the dangers via an orientation, protect them with ventilation, provide PPE, whatever...why can't he?
I find "within the law" to be contradictory because you seem to be supporting the laws that are in place but saying that such laws shouldn't be made.
I'm not following you with the "mob rules, fuck the minority" comment. Are you saying you're in support of this mentality or against it? :?
Of course establishments whose purpose is smoking would be exempt from a no-smoking policy, e.g. cigar bars are exempt from the policy here. But we're not talking about those places. We're talking about places whose purpose is to provide food, alcohol, and musical entertainment, which people should be able to enjoy without being subjected to smoke.
To me, the contrarian issue here is not allowing people to do something that is perfectly legal anywhere but in their own homes. I can't think of a single other product or industry that has that strict a regulation implemented.
You lost me. How is smoking not legal in people's own homes? :?
I'm gonna start a new awesome habit... I call it Monkeying around. I'm gonna throw my feces around in public places. If people don't like it, they can go else where... and don't tell me about the health risks or issues for myself or others - I do not care and those who are bothered by my habit can just accept it and alter their ways for my habit which could effect them.
I'm gonna start a new awesome habit... I call it Monkeying around. I'm gonna throw my feces around in public places. If people don't like it, they can go else where... and don't tell me about the health risks or issues for myself or others - I do not care and those who are bothered by my habit can just accept it and alter their ways for my habit which could effect them.
I'm gonna start a new awesome habit... I call it Monkeying around. I'm gonna throw my feces around in public places. If people don't like it, they can go else where... and don't tell me about the health risks or issues for myself or others - I do not care and those who are bothered by my habit can just accept it and alter their ways for my habit which could effect them.
ha ha ha !! I double dog dare ya
Godfather.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I'm gonna start a new awesome habit... I call it Monkeying around. I'm gonna throw my feces around in public places. If people don't like it, they can go else where... and don't tell me about the health risks or issues for myself or others - I do not care and those who are bothered by my habit can just accept it and alter their ways for my habit which could effect them.
cute.
You could apply this mentality to the righteous, judgemental behaviours of the anti-smoking crowd too. In fact...you guys don't say 'go else where'...you say 'go home, or nowhere'.
5. How in hell are most smokers "considerate" of non-smokers?
yes I'm a smoker....damn it I'm trying to quit :x
people that know know that if they don't smoke I will not be close enough to them to bother
them with my smoke,it's called being considerate.
but the last thing any smoker wants is someone talking shit about them because they smoke..
if I'm having a cig and I'm alone and you don't smoke stay away from me simple as that..
don't ask me to put my cig out just for you,last time that happened I told them to leave.
there are a whole lot of thing's worse to worry about than somebody that doesn't conform to a
non smoker's world..welcome to the smoker's world they live here too
it is a nasty smell no doubt but then again so is body oder...you the type,not real up on their hygiene :shock:
Godfather.
Well congratulations on your efforts to quit and good luck.
For the record, the only smoker I really give any shit to is my sister. And that's because 1) I love her and I'm concerned about her health. 2) I know I'll be the one taking care of her for 10 years when we're old and she's suffering from emphysema.
Regarding smokers being considerate, people who are smoking can have all the considerate intentions in the world, but it doesn't really matter when you're trapped in an enclosed room with them.
Actually, it's something I feel appropriate in all aspects of life.. whatever your vice or action. Accountability sure is a sexy idea ain't it? If you do x, y will happen. Not a tough concept eh?
Also, people are entitled to do as they please, but your singular actions should not interfere, interrupt or be detrimental to anyone but yourself. Not a hard concept for anyone to live by. Respectful for others.
All you smokers - get cancer and die. Good riddance.
^^^and this is exactly why I get involved in these threads as a non-smoker. real fucking classy pal.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Actually, it's something I feel appropriate in all aspects of life.. whatever your vice or action. Accountability sure is a sexy idea ain't it? If you do x, y will happen. Not a tough concept eh?
Also, people are entitled to do as they please, but your singular actions should not interfere, interrupt or be detrimental to anyone but yourself. Not a hard concept for anyone to live by. Respectful for others.
So do you think people should be able to smoke indoors at every workplace?
Also, I find your qualifier of "within the law" to be somewhat contrary to your argument. The law regulates workplace safety measures, and removing the risk is always more effective than wearing personal protection equipment. Why should the law be able to regulate other health and safety issues but not secondhand smoke?
No, not every workplace. Public places; specifically adult-only places, where it is an adult decision to be there.
What about restaurants (which aren't adult-only places but where smoking is usually allowed)? What about offices buildings (which usually are adult-only places, but where smoking is banned)?
You’re nit-picking. Like I said – ventilation, partition walls, outdoor areas, PPE, whatever….there is no reason smokers can’t be accommodated if the business owner chooses to accommodate them. OR...ban smoking altogether. I'd fight that too, tho.
Of course establishments whose purpose is smoking would be exempt from a no-smoking policy, e.g. cigar bars are exempt from the policy here. But we're not talking about those places. We're talking about places whose purpose is to provide food, alcohol, and musical entertainment, which people should be able to enjoy without being subjected to smoke.
Here, the ban is EVERY public place. And within five metres of any door. You can’t have ANY structure designed to accommodate smokers. They’ve tried to build wind-breaks for smokers, in the dirty back alley of bars, and they made them take them down, changing the bylaw as they go. It’s fucking harassment.
Anyway… I’ll repeat, without the confusing statement:
OHS DOES regulate these actions to minimize the risk, as they could with smoking. I think if a smoker wants to open a smoking bar, make his hires aware of the dangers via an orientation, protect them with ventilation, provide PPE, whatever...why can't he?
Perhaps you have pity or care if people dig their own holes in life - I do not.
And the car analogy is only legitimate if the driver is overly reckless and beyond normal circumstances. This is what things like long time smokers or alcoholics face. You play in traffic, you will get hit by a car Nothing more, nothing less.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Please see my above post. Also, yes I do, and I have zero pity or tolerance for people who dig their own hole in life. If you dig your hole, lay in it. We are a society of people who don't want to accept the results of their actions, whether the biggest or smallest thing. Reap what you sow in life.
...All you smokers - get cancer and die. Good riddance.
Well that was not very nice.
Any of your family members or friends smoke?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Please see my above post. Also, yes I do, and I have zero pity or tolerance for people who dig their own hole in life. If you dig your hole, lay in it. We are a society of people who don't want to accept the results of their actions, whether the biggest or smallest thing. Reap what you sow in life.
...All you smokers - get cancer and die. Good riddance.
Well that was not very nice.
Any of your family members or friends smoke?
I agree that as a society, we lack personal accountability. However, you seem very jaded toward people in general. I'm a smoker (trying to quit!) but I support the rights of non-smokers and I think the public ban on smoking is a good thing. No one is asking for you to pity me if I die tomorrow from cancer, but it's a whole other thing to wish me dead simply because I smoke. A tad inconsiderate and histrionic, ya?
Let me ask you, will you tell your family members and friends that smoke you hope they die of cancer and good riddance, or is that just your message board persona?
You could apply this mentality to the righteous, judgmental behaviours of the anti-smoking crowd too.
I don't think the non-smoking crowd are necessarily self-righteous and judgemental. Perhaps the smoking crowd (and their allies) are just defensive.
Really, though, I don't understand why some people think smokers' "rights" are more sacred than the rights of non-smokers.
That’s exactly why I avoided your leading question…because my answer would have involved the ‘rights’ of smokers, and I didn’t want to get into that. I don’t’ think anyone’s rights trump anyone elses’. It’s about choice and free will within the law. A regulated smoking establishment does not infringe on anyone’s rights, period.
I think the statements in this thread provide enough reason to get defensive.
Perhaps you have pity or care if people dig their own holes in life - I do not.
And the car analogy is only legitimate if the driver is overly reckless and beyond normal circumstances. This is what things like long time smokers or alcoholics face. You play in traffic, you will get hit by a car Nothing more, nothing less.
Well aren’t you just soooo fucking hardcore. Karma’s a bitch. Maybe you’ll have a kid that smokes one day and we can all wish death on them :roll: Get over yourself.
The car analogy is legit;, the odds of a serious accident increase with the amount of time spent behind the wheel, regardless of your driving habits. That doesn’t mean I should HOPE you die in a wreck eventually, then spit on your grave saying good riddance. Jesus man, do you really see no problem with your statement? Fuckin borderline psychotic if you ask me. But then…you’re just trying to sound hard. Have fun!
Also, I find it rather humorous that people find my comments outlandish or mean.. if I said the same about drug addicts like crackheads or heroin addicts, etc. .. would we be having a discussion? Of course not! So many people want to defend or merely gloss over the fact that these behaviors are no different, just different extreme's of the same action, yet so much of our society says it is socially acceptable to smoke cigarettes, so it means we have to accept the results or be polite about it. It's nonsense and nothing more. Addicts are addicts - just pick your poison and you'll get what's coming for you. It's not a shock, nor is it sad - it's deserved.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You’re nit-picking. Like I said – ventilation, partition walls, outdoor areas, PPE, whatever….there is no reason smokers can’t be accommodated if the business owner chooses to accommodate them. OR...ban smoking altogether. I'd fight that too, tho.
I'm not nit-picking. Restaurants are a HUGE source of contention regarding smoking bans. And office buildings are a huge category where smoking is banned.
The reason why smokers can't be accommodated with ventilation, partition walls, etc. is because those measures don't work. That's why they have to ban smoking altogether in these places if they want to remove the risk.
Here, the ban is EVERY public place. And within five metres of any door. You can’t have ANY structure designed to accommodate smokers. They’ve tried to build wind-breaks for smokers, in the dirty back alley of bars, and they made them take them down, changing the bylaw as they go. It’s fucking harassment.
Anyway… I’ll repeat, without the confusing statement:
OHS DOES regulate these actions to minimize the risk, as they could with smoking. I think if a smoker wants to open a smoking bar, make his hires aware of the dangers via an orientation, protect them with ventilation, provide PPE, whatever...why can't he?
Smoking is banned outside too? Or just near doors? Near doors is perfectly reasonable when you consider that smokers otherwise congregate in a large group near the doors, meaning that anyone wanting to enter the building must walk through them and also that the smoke travels inside the buidling. I don't think that's harassment at all. If they came up with a solution that actually solved the problem, I'm sure it would be legal. But the things you've mentioned don't solve the problem.
Also, you really have a ban on smoking in cigar bars? Really??
I was saying it IS legal in their homes…but nowhere else. Can you think of any other product or industry that has to abide by such rules?
I can think of plenty of personal actions that we are only allowed to do in private places, so as not to infringe upon the rights of others: nudity, sex, urination & defecation being among them. And I can think of plenty of products we're not allowed to use in most workplaces: alcohol, medical marijuana, candles, etc. Hell, I can't even have any object within 18 inches of the ceiling in my office and I can't have boxes on the floor or in the hallway. Why? Because they pose hazards in the workplace, so they are regulated to protect the health/safety of everyone here. But I don't see everyone up in arms about that.
Also, I find it rather humorous that people find my comments outlandish or mean.. if I said the same about drug addicts like crackheads or heroin addicts, etc. .. would we be having a discussion? .
Of course not! So many people want to defend or merely gloss over the fact that these behaviors are no different, just different extreme's of the same action, yet so much of our society says it is socially acceptable to smoke cigarettes, so it means we have to accept the results or be polite about it. It's nonsense and nothing more. Addicts are addicts - just pick your poison and you'll get what's coming for you. It's not a shock, nor is it sad - it's deserved.
Pretty easy to state when you can shine your virtual halo from a distance, away from the scrutiny of your peers. Are you saying you have never partaken in any self-destructive behaviour? If you did, did you DESERVE to die? If not...well...guess the world is your oyster (probably yours alone).
I am not one to quote scripture, but....let he who is without sin....
We all know these are the results if you do these types of habits, so why should we all basically turn a blind eye or pretend we're shocked or similar? This news did not appear yesterday, we've known for quite some time the risks and effects of these things - so why act as if it is otherwise? Being inconsiderate in this instance is merely being delusional or not acknowledging or accepting the facts of these habits and outcomes. Things like "it won't be me, I won't be a statistic" isn't a reason, it's a blinded excuse and nothing more. Play with fire and you'll get burnt.
As for my family members and friends, they are all very aware of my thoughts on these matters. Reap what you sow in life - it's that simple. Does this mean if you smoke one cigarette you will die - no of course not.. but to those who abuse their bodies through bad habits like these, they are merely digging their own hole. So why not recognize these facts? You won't get crocodile tears from me. Perhaps you think that's cold of me, but certainly not unwarranted or unrealistic.
I agree that as a society, we lack personal accountability. However, you seem very jaded toward people in general. I'm a smoker (trying to quit!) but I support the rights of non-smokers and I think the public ban on smoking is a good thing. No one is asking for you to pity me if I die tomorrow from cancer, but it's a whole other thing to wish me dead simply because I smoke. A tad inconsiderate and histrionic, ya?
Let me ask you, will you tell your family members and friends that smoke you hope they die of cancer and good riddance, or is that just your message board persona?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
We all know these are the results if you do these types of habits, so why should we all basically turn a blind eye or pretend we're shocked or similar? This news did not appear yesterday, we've known for quite some time the risks and effects of these things - so why act as if it is otherwise? Being inconsiderate in this instance is merely being delusional or not acknowledging or accepting the facts of these habits and outcomes. Things like "it won't be me, I won't be a statistic" isn't a reason, it's a blinded excuse and nothing more. Play with fire and you'll get burnt.
As for my family members and friends, they are all very aware of my thoughts on these matters. Reap what you sow in life - it's that simple. Does this mean if you smoke one cigarette you will die - no of course not.. but to those who abuse their bodies through bad habits like these, they are merely digging their own hole. So why not recognize these facts? You won't get crocodile tears from me. Perhaps you think that's cold of me, but certainly not unwarranted or unrealistic.
Who's asking you to turn a blind eye or pretend you're shocked when a smoker dies of cancer? I acknowledged your point about not shedding tears for me if I die of cancer, I just asked why you would wish death upon me simply because I smoke? You still haven't answered that question.
I am not above or beyond any of this. I do not smoke - I do drink. And I can honestly acknowledge that if I do abuse such things in my life for long enough, I will deserve the repercussions of it. That's accountability and responsibility. I wouldn't want people to think, believe or act otherwise. I also would never put another human being in harms way because of my personal decisions - something people who smoke can not really say. So if you think I'm too harsh or high and mighty, honestly ask yourself if I'm truly asking for too much here... just some accountability and responsibility for habits and effects of them. You may not like my tone or wording, but it's really not bad concept for people to live by.
Also, I find it rather humorous that people find my comments outlandish or mean.. if I said the same about drug addicts like crackheads or heroin addicts, etc. .. would we be having a discussion? .
Of course not! So many people want to defend or merely gloss over the fact that these behaviors are no different, just different extreme's of the same action, yet so much of our society says it is socially acceptable to smoke cigarettes, so it means we have to accept the results or be polite about it. It's nonsense and nothing more. Addicts are addicts - just pick your poison and you'll get what's coming for you. It's not a shock, nor is it sad - it's deserved.
Pretty easy to state when you can shine your virtual halo from a distance, away from the scrutiny of your peers. Are you saying you have never partaken in any self-destructive behaviour? If you did, did you DESERVE to die? If not...well...guess the world is your oyster (probably yours alone).
I am not one to quote scripture, but....let he who is without sin....
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You could apply this mentality to the righteous, judgmental behaviours of the anti-smoking crowd too.
I don't think the non-smoking crowd are necessarily self-righteous and judgemental. Perhaps the smoking crowd (and their allies) are just defensive.
Really, though, I don't understand why some people think smokers' "rights" are more sacred than the rights of non-smokers.
That’s exactly why I avoided your leading question…because my answer would have involved the ‘rights’ of smokers, and I didn’t want to get into that. I don’t’ think anyone’s rights trump anyone elses’. It’s about choice and free will within the law. A regulated smoking establishment does not infringe on anyone’s rights, period.
I think the statements in this thread provide enough reason to get defensive.
It wasn't a leading question.
There you go again with the "within the law" stuff. So they should just change the law and then the idea that people shouldn't smoke inside public places will be within the law!
I'm not nit-picking. Restaurants are a HUGE source of contention regarding smoking bans. And office buildings are a huge category where smoking is banned.
The reason why smokers can't be accommodated with ventilation, partition walls, etc. is because those measures don't work. That's why they have to ban smoking altogether in these places if they want to remove the risk. .
See, this is where it starts to push the lines of reason for me….if there is a glass wall separating two sides of a room…the smoking side has proper ventilation, air quality monitoring etc…how much more dangerous is the ‘seepage’ of smoke than the exhaust in the parking lot?
Of course, partition walls only apply to a split building. What of the ‘all smoking’ establishments? How do they infringe on anyone’s rights if the workers are aware of the hazards and provided a way to stay safe?
Smoking is banned outside too? Or just near doors? Near doors is perfectly reasonable when you consider that smokers otherwise congregate in a large group near the doors, meaning that anyone wanting to enter the building must walk through them and also that the smoke travels inside the buidling. I don't think that's harassment at all. If they came up with a solution that actually solved the problem, I'm sure it would be legal. But the things you've mentioned don't solve the problem.
Also, you really have a ban on smoking in cigar bars? Really?? .
I agree that ‘near doors’ is a good rule. But isn't it overboard to not allow the bus I mentioned? Or to say that a wind-break wall can’t be constructed in the back alley to shield smokers from severe wind chills? THAT is what I said was harassment – that and changing the rules as people found ways to accommodate smokers.
And yes – no smoking in ANY public place. That includes outdoor public places (patios), and cigar bars. I don’t recall there being any actual ‘cigar bars’ here when the law was enacted, but NO ONE has been exempted.
I can think of plenty of personal actions that we are only allowed to do in private places, so as not to infringe upon the rights of others: nudity, sex, urination & defecation being among them. And I can think of plenty of products we're not allowed to use in most workplaces: alcohol, medical marijuana, candles, etc. Hell, I can't even have any object within 18 inches of the ceiling in my office and I can't have boxes on the floor or in the hallway. Why? Because they pose hazards in the workplace, so they are regulated to protect the health/safety of everyone here. But I don't see everyone up in arms about that.
Nudity is allowed in strip bars. Sex in brothels. Urination/defecation in public bathrooms.
The workplace is more complex, yes, but all of those things are legal in SOME workplaces, and not subject to blanket bans.
I think in many areas in life, people get what they deserve... so if you smoke for long enough, you will get what's coming to you. Whether you want to frame my words as me wishing for something, that's kinda semantics... but I will say this much - for good, for bad or indifferent, I would hope that justice and karma are served in all of life - whether for a good person doing good deeds having good results in life or the opposite and yes even with something like bad habits resulting in bad effects.
Who's asking you to turn a blind eye or pretend you're shocked when a smoker dies of cancer? I acknowledged your point about not shedding tears for me if I die of cancer, I just asked why you would wish death upon me simply because I smoke? You still haven't answered that question.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I think in many areas in life, people get what they deserve... so if you smoke for long enough, you will get what's coming to you. Whether you want to frame my words as me wishing for something, that's kinda semantics... but I will say this much - for good, for bad or indifferent, I would hope that justice and karma are served in all of life - whether for a good person doing good deeds having good results in life or the opposite and yes even with something like bad habits resulting in bad effects.
Well perhaps you weep over such things, but I do not. Play in traffic, you'll get hit by a car. These are basic morals and ideas we teach children in life, yet we as adults do not follow because we'd prefer to have bad habits or hope we won't be a statistic. I don't put up those false notions and like to see them as they are. If you do x, y will be the result. So do I care about a person doing that and having that result, no I do not.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I think in many areas in life, people get what they deserve... so if you smoke for long enough, you will get what's coming to you. Whether you want to frame my words as me wishing for something, that's kinda semantics... but I will say this much - for good, for bad or indifferent, I would hope that justice and karma are served in all of life - whether for a good person doing good deeds having good results in life or the opposite and yes even with something like bad habits resulting in bad effects.
Framing your words? Semantics? Here is what you said...
All you smokers - get cancer and die. Good riddance.
Knowing that you have family members and friends that smoke, don't you find the above statement to be irrational and indifferent to those you love? I don't know many sensible people that would say such a thing, especially when there's a personal connection.
See, this is where it starts to push the lines of reason for me….if there is a glass wall separating two sides of a room…the smoking side has proper ventilation, air quality monitoring etc…how much more dangerous is the ‘seepage’ of smoke than the exhaust in the parking lot?
Of course, partition walls only apply to a split building. What of the ‘all smoking’ establishments? How do they infringe on anyone’s rights if the workers are aware of the hazards and provided a way to stay safe?
Again, there is no way to stay safe in an "all smoking" establishment. And I don't think your split building partition walls are realistic.
I agree that ‘near doors’ is a good rule. But isn't it overboard to not allow the bus I mentioned? Or to say that a wind-break wall can’t be constructed in the back alley to shield smokers from severe wind chills? THAT is what I said was harassment – that and changing the rules as people found ways to accommodate smokers.
And yes – no smoking in ANY public place. That includes outdoor public places (patios), and cigar bars. I don’t recall there being any actual ‘cigar bars’ here when the law was enacted, but NO ONE has been exempted.
I can't comment about the bus or wind-break wall since I don't know all the details. I have no doubt, though, that if any establishments had existed for the sole purpose of smoking (like cigar bars) then they would have been exempted.
What about just walking down the street? Is smoking banned then too?
Nudity is allowed in strip bars. Sex in brothels. Urination/defecation in public bathrooms.
The workplace is more complex, yes, but all of those things are legal in SOME workplaces, and not subject to blanket bans.
Well, here nudity is regulated in strip clubs, brothels are illegal, and smoking is allowed in cigar bars & casinos. Your urination/defecation defense doesn't count because bathrooms are still private places intended for that purpose. I'm sure if smoke didn't travel they would allow bathroom-type places for people to smoke too.
Comments
What about restaurants (which aren't adult-only places but where smoking is usually allowed)? What about offices buildings (which usually are adult-only places, but where smoking is banned)?
I find "within the law" to be contradictory because you seem to be supporting the laws that are in place but saying that such laws shouldn't be made.
I'm not following you with the "mob rules, fuck the minority" comment. Are you saying you're in support of this mentality or against it? :?
Of course establishments whose purpose is smoking would be exempt from a no-smoking policy, e.g. cigar bars are exempt from the policy here. But we're not talking about those places. We're talking about places whose purpose is to provide food, alcohol, and musical entertainment, which people should be able to enjoy without being subjected to smoke.
You lost me. How is smoking not legal in people's own homes? :?
ha ha ha !! I double dog dare ya
Godfather.
:thumbup:
All you smokers - get cancer and die. Good riddance.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You could apply this mentality to the righteous, judgemental behaviours of the anti-smoking crowd too. In fact...you guys don't say 'go else where'...you say 'go home, or nowhere'.
Well congratulations on your efforts to quit and good luck.
For the record, the only smoker I really give any shit to is my sister. And that's because 1) I love her and I'm concerned about her health. 2) I know I'll be the one taking care of her for 10 years when we're old and she's suffering from emphysema.
Regarding smokers being considerate, people who are smoking can have all the considerate intentions in the world, but it doesn't really matter when you're trapped in an enclosed room with them.
Also, people are entitled to do as they please, but your singular actions should not interfere, interrupt or be detrimental to anyone but yourself. Not a hard concept for anyone to live by. Respectful for others.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Respectful of others = wishing death upon people over their vices?
By your logic...I'll hope you die in a car accident because you choose to drive. good riddance.
You’re nit-picking. Like I said – ventilation, partition walls, outdoor areas, PPE, whatever….there is no reason smokers can’t be accommodated if the business owner chooses to accommodate them. OR...ban smoking altogether. I'd fight that too, tho.
I’m against it, of course. I get the sense that this is a leading question, so I’ll leave it at that.
Here, the ban is EVERY public place. And within five metres of any door. You can’t have ANY structure designed to accommodate smokers. They’ve tried to build wind-breaks for smokers, in the dirty back alley of bars, and they made them take them down, changing the bylaw as they go. It’s fucking harassment.
Anyway… I’ll repeat, without the confusing statement:
OHS DOES regulate these actions to minimize the risk, as they could with smoking. I think if a smoker wants to open a smoking bar, make his hires aware of the dangers via an orientation, protect them with ventilation, provide PPE, whatever...why can't he? I was saying it IS legal in their homes…but nowhere else. Can you think of any other product or industry that has to abide by such rules?
Well that was not very nice.
Any of your family members or friends smoke?
And the car analogy is only legitimate if the driver is overly reckless and beyond normal circumstances. This is what things like long time smokers or alcoholics face. You play in traffic, you will get hit by a car Nothing more, nothing less.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I don't think the non-smoking crowd are necessarily self-righteous and judgemental. Perhaps the smoking crowd (and their allies) are just defensive.
Really, though, I don't understand why some people think smokers' "rights" are more sacred than the rights of non-smokers.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I agree that as a society, we lack personal accountability. However, you seem very jaded toward people in general. I'm a smoker (trying to quit!) but I support the rights of non-smokers and I think the public ban on smoking is a good thing. No one is asking for you to pity me if I die tomorrow from cancer, but it's a whole other thing to wish me dead simply because I smoke. A tad inconsiderate and histrionic, ya?
Let me ask you, will you tell your family members and friends that smoke you hope they die of cancer and good riddance, or is that just your message board persona?
I think the statements in this thread provide enough reason to get defensive.
Well aren’t you just soooo fucking hardcore. Karma’s a bitch. Maybe you’ll have a kid that smokes one day and we can all wish death on them :roll: Get over yourself.
The car analogy is legit;, the odds of a serious accident increase with the amount of time spent behind the wheel, regardless of your driving habits. That doesn’t mean I should HOPE you die in a wreck eventually, then spit on your grave saying good riddance. Jesus man, do you really see no problem with your statement? Fuckin borderline psychotic if you ask me. But then…you’re just trying to sound hard. Have fun!
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I'm not nit-picking. Restaurants are a HUGE source of contention regarding smoking bans. And office buildings are a huge category where smoking is banned.
The reason why smokers can't be accommodated with ventilation, partition walls, etc. is because those measures don't work. That's why they have to ban smoking altogether in these places if they want to remove the risk.
It wasn't a leading question.
Smoking is banned outside too? Or just near doors? Near doors is perfectly reasonable when you consider that smokers otherwise congregate in a large group near the doors, meaning that anyone wanting to enter the building must walk through them and also that the smoke travels inside the buidling. I don't think that's harassment at all. If they came up with a solution that actually solved the problem, I'm sure it would be legal. But the things you've mentioned don't solve the problem.
Also, you really have a ban on smoking in cigar bars? Really??
I can think of plenty of personal actions that we are only allowed to do in private places, so as not to infringe upon the rights of others: nudity, sex, urination & defecation being among them. And I can think of plenty of products we're not allowed to use in most workplaces: alcohol, medical marijuana, candles, etc. Hell, I can't even have any object within 18 inches of the ceiling in my office and I can't have boxes on the floor or in the hallway. Why? Because they pose hazards in the workplace, so they are regulated to protect the health/safety of everyone here. But I don't see everyone up in arms about that.
I am not one to quote scripture, but....let he who is without sin....
As for my family members and friends, they are all very aware of my thoughts on these matters. Reap what you sow in life - it's that simple. Does this mean if you smoke one cigarette you will die - no of course not.. but to those who abuse their bodies through bad habits like these, they are merely digging their own hole. So why not recognize these facts? You won't get crocodile tears from me. Perhaps you think that's cold of me, but certainly not unwarranted or unrealistic.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Who's asking you to turn a blind eye or pretend you're shocked when a smoker dies of cancer? I acknowledged your point about not shedding tears for me if I die of cancer, I just asked why you would wish death upon me simply because I smoke? You still haven't answered that question.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
It wasn't a leading question.
There you go again with the "within the law" stuff. So they should just change the law and then the idea that people shouldn't smoke inside public places will be within the law!
Of course, partition walls only apply to a split building. What of the ‘all smoking’ establishments? How do they infringe on anyone’s rights if the workers are aware of the hazards and provided a way to stay safe?
I agree that ‘near doors’ is a good rule. But isn't it overboard to not allow the bus I mentioned? Or to say that a wind-break wall can’t be constructed in the back alley to shield smokers from severe wind chills? THAT is what I said was harassment – that and changing the rules as people found ways to accommodate smokers.
And yes – no smoking in ANY public place. That includes outdoor public places (patios), and cigar bars. I don’t recall there being any actual ‘cigar bars’ here when the law was enacted, but NO ONE has been exempted.
Nudity is allowed in strip bars. Sex in brothels. Urination/defecation in public bathrooms.
The workplace is more complex, yes, but all of those things are legal in SOME workplaces, and not subject to blanket bans.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
"GOOD RIDDANCE" is not semantics.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Framing your words? Semantics? Here is what you said...
Knowing that you have family members and friends that smoke, don't you find the above statement to be irrational and indifferent to those you love? I don't know many sensible people that would say such a thing, especially when there's a personal connection.
Again, there is no way to stay safe in an "all smoking" establishment. And I don't think your split building partition walls are realistic.
I can't comment about the bus or wind-break wall since I don't know all the details. I have no doubt, though, that if any establishments had existed for the sole purpose of smoking (like cigar bars) then they would have been exempted.
What about just walking down the street? Is smoking banned then too?
Well, here nudity is regulated in strip clubs, brothels are illegal, and smoking is allowed in cigar bars & casinos. Your urination/defecation defense doesn't count because bathrooms are still private places intended for that purpose. I'm sure if smoke didn't travel they would allow bathroom-type places for people to smoke too.