Smokers Stink (AET) thread made me think

245

Comments

  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I don't know why the police and others want to cut down on drinking and driving.. It only inconveniences a few others and most don't interfere with the vast majority of drivers.. What's people's problem - damn nosey bodies and stupid government infringement laws.
    prfctlefts wrote:
    First off you need to chill chic,and yes Im serious.If some one started working in a bar or restaraunt before these bans and didn't like people smoking than they should have never started working there in the first place.smoking goes hand in hand when drinking for a lot of people.I also know several bar owners who have lost business because of this new law.Not to mention most smokers are considerate of non smokers.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    dunkman wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    First off you need to chill chic,and yes Im serious.If some one started working in a bar or restaraunt before these bans and didn't like people smoking than they should have never started working there in the first place.smoking goes hand in hand when drinking for a lot of people.I also know several bar owners who have lost business because of this new law.Not to mention most smokers are considerate of non smokers.

    thank fuck we banned smoking in bars here... idiots who smoke and quite happily pass their smoke onto bar staff are no better than those nazi doctors who injected chemicals into the eyes of twins.

    sometimes people take a job because they have to... some people take on a job in a smokey bar because they have food to put on a table...

    and if it means smokers have to walk 8 feet to the door so they can smoke outside then its a good thing for everybody... not only are smokers selfish, but they are too fucking lazy to walk to the bar door for a ciggy?... might help cut the obesity problems at the same time...

    WOW.... crap ! I would like to award you with the flying fickle finger of faith award.
    your post is just bull shit...fuck you, remind me to put my cig out on your forehead asshole.

    Godfather.
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I agree with your notion that the health risks are no better/worse than things like obesity or alcohol. But the one main difference with smoking is if done around others, it is harmful to those people. If I have a drink, you won't have an effect from it unless I drive and cause an accident or something like that.. but if I smoke around you, you could have a negative health effect if it is done enough or smoking is allowed everywhere. Many smokers say they feel harassed or discriminated against because of seclusion or similar, but that's pretty much a selfish reaction. If we had things like smoking and non-smoking bars/restaurants/areas in public, that's one thing, but if we do not, it is no different from polluting a river in small amounts and then saying it's not your problem that the river/ocean gets polluted as a result.

    Also, in terms of costs and healthcare, smoking has far worse results than the other two... in fact, people who smoke have higher chances of other non-cancerous diseases like heart disease or many others.

    On the flip side being a smoker significantly reduces someones life expectancy. So if the life expectancy of a smoker is like 10 years or more less than a non-smoker, that is 10 less years where the smoker won't be able to collect any old age security, or in the case of the US things like medicare. Not to mention that a smoker who dies at say 60 instead of living to 70 wont have to be treated for any diseases or conditions that are attributed to the very old. So I think in the end the costs probably even out.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Godfather. wrote:
    dunkman wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    First off you need to chill chic,and yes Im serious.If some one started working in a bar or restaraunt before these bans and didn't like people smoking than they should have never started working there in the first place.smoking goes hand in hand when drinking for a lot of people.I also know several bar owners who have lost business because of this new law.Not to mention most smokers are considerate of non smokers.

    thank fuck we banned smoking in bars here... idiots who smoke and quite happily pass their smoke onto bar staff are no better than those nazi doctors who injected chemicals into the eyes of twins.

    sometimes people take a job because they have to... some people take on a job in a smokey bar because they have food to put on a table...

    and if it means smokers have to walk 8 feet to the door so they can smoke outside then its a good thing for everybody... not only are smokers selfish, but they are too fucking lazy to walk to the bar door for a ciggy?... might help cut the obesity problems at the same time...

    WOW.... crap ! I would like to award you with the flying fickle finger of faith award.
    your post is just bull shit...fuck you, remind me to put my cig out on your forehead asshole.

    Godfather.

    you dont get to award me fuck all... :thumbup:
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Well if we're simply worried about costs and the old, we can just start euthanasia - people past a certain age or with any medical issue too costly. The slippery slope is fun ain't it.
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    On the flip side being a smoker significantly reduces someones life expectancy. So if the life expectancy of a smoker is like 10 years or more less than a non-smoker, that is 10 less years where the smoker won't be able to collect any old age security, or in the case of the US things like medicare. Not to mention that a smoker who dies at say 60 instead of living to 70 wont have to be treated for any diseases or conditions that are attributed to the very old. So I think in the end the costs probably even out.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    prfctlefts wrote:
    First off you need to chill chic,and yes Im serious.If some one started working in a bar or restaraunt before these bans and didn't like people smoking than they should have never started working there in the first place.smoking goes hand in hand when drinking for a lot of people.I also know several bar owners who have lost business because of this new law.Not to mention most smokers are considerate of non smokers.

    1. I and I alone will decide what my "chill" level will be at any given moment so you can keep your opinions about what I need to do to yourself, boy. Besides, I thought you didn't believe in people telling others what to do. (Oh wait, I forgot - that only goes for smokers and business oweners but not for pregnant women or women on message boards, right?) :roll:

    2. As has already been stated, people take jobs where others are allowed to smoke because they need job to feed their families - not because they don't have a problem with being constantly subjected to carcinogens. Same with musicians - should only those who enjoy breathing cigarette smoke get to play in public venues? Simiarly, people take jobs in coal mines because they need jobs - not because they like to take risks of being trapped and killed underground.

    Are you saying you don't support any workers' rights, safety regulations, etc? Are you just totally against OSHA altogether? Do you think people should still be able to smoke in all workplaces??

    Are you a smoker? How would you like everyone around you in your office to constantly be smoking?

    3. I don't give a flying fuck if smoking goes hand in hand with drinking, eating, watching movies, or anything else. That's irrelevant.

    4. The bars around here are still packed. In fact, I know plenty of people who go out now who wouldn't go out before because they didn't want to be around the smoke.

    5. How in hell are most smokers "considerate" of non-smokers?
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    scb wrote:

    Employees have the right to have protections in place for all kinds of workplace hazards; secondhand smoke is no exception.
    .
    Let them wear ventilators. Yes, I'm serious.
    People do unsafe work all the time, within the law, provided the right PPE.
    I don't agree with banning smoking everywhere. It should be up to the business owner to decide if they want to allow it. If they do...sure...regulate partition walls, patios, ventilation, whatever....but blanket bans are bullshit. Hell, a bar in my city put a bus in their parking lot for smokers to sit in when it's -40...they made them get rid of it. HOW does that bus infringe on ANY non-smokers rights?
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Drowned Out wrote:
    scb wrote:

    Employees have the right to have protections in place for all kinds of workplace hazards; secondhand smoke is no exception.
    .
    Let them wear ventilators. Yes, I'm serious.
    People do unsafe work all the time, within the law, provided the right PPE.
    I don't agree with banning smoking everywhere. It should be up to the business owner to decide if they want to allow smoking. If they do...sure...regulate partition walls, patios, ventilation, whatever....but blanket bans are bullshit. Hell, a bar in my city put a bus in their parking lot for smokers to sit in when it's -40...they made them get rid of it. HOW does that bus infringe on ANY non-smokers rights?

    So do you think people should be able to smoke indoors at every workplace?

    Also, I find your qualifier of "within the law" to be somewhat contrary to your argument. The law regulates workplace safety measures, and removing the risk is always more effective than wearing personal protection equipment. Why should the law be able to regulate other health and safety issues but not secondhand smoke?
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    scb wrote:

    So do you think people should be able to smoke indoors at every workplace?

    Also, I find your qualifier of "within the law" to be somewhat contrary to your argument. The law regulates workplace safety measures, and removing the risk is always more effective than wearing personal protection equipment. Why should the law be able to regulate other health and safety issues but not secondhand smoke?
    No, not every workplace. Public places; specifically adult-only places, where it is an adult decision to be there.
    Within the law is not contrary at all. Just walking around a construction site is dangerous...just about every action has a potentially unsafe consequence. OHS DOES regulate these actions to minimize the risk, as they could with smoking. Instead, it's mob rules, fuck the minory. I think if a smoker wants to open a smoking bar, make his hires aware of the dangers via an orientation, protect them with ventilation, provide PPE, whatever...why can't he?

    To me, the contrarian issue here is not allowing people to do something that is perfectly legal anywhere but in their own homes. I can't think of a single other product or industry that has that strict a regulation implemented.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I'm gonna start a new awesome habit... I call it Monkeying around. I'm gonna throw my feces around in public places. If people don't like it, they can go else where... and don't tell me about the health risks or issues for myself or others - I do not care and those who are bothered by my habit can just accept it and alter their ways for my habit which could effect them.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    5. How in hell are most smokers "considerate" of non-smokers?

    yes I'm a smoker....damn it I'm trying to quit :x

    people that know know that if they don't smoke I will not be close enough to them to bother
    them with my smoke,it's called being considerate.
    but the last thing any smoker wants is someone talking shit about them because they smoke..
    if I'm having a cig and I'm alone and you don't smoke stay away from me simple as that..
    don't ask me to put my cig out just for you,last time that happened I told them to leave.
    there are a whole lot of thing's worse to worry about than somebody that doesn't conform to a
    non smoker's world..welcome to the smoker's world they live here too ;)
    it is a nasty smell no doubt but then again so is body oder...you the type,not real up on their hygiene :shock:

    Godfather.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Drowned Out wrote:
    scb wrote:

    So do you think people should be able to smoke indoors at every workplace?

    Also, I find your qualifier of "within the law" to be somewhat contrary to your argument. The law regulates workplace safety measures, and removing the risk is always more effective than wearing personal protection equipment. Why should the law be able to regulate other health and safety issues but not secondhand smoke?
    No, not every workplace. Public places; specifically adult-only places, where it is an adult decision to be there.

    What about restaurants (which aren't adult-only places but where smoking is usually allowed)? What about offices buildings (which usually are adult-only places, but where smoking is banned)?
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Within the law is not contrary at all. Just walking around a construction site is dangerous...just about every action has a potentially unsafe consequence. OHS DOES regulate these actions to minimize the risk, as they could with smoking. Instead, it's mob rules, fuck the minory. I think if a smoker wants to open a smoking bar, make his hires aware of the dangers via an orientation, protect them with ventilation, provide PPE, whatever...why can't he?

    I find "within the law" to be contradictory because you seem to be supporting the laws that are in place but saying that such laws shouldn't be made.

    I'm not following you with the "mob rules, fuck the minority" comment. Are you saying you're in support of this mentality or against it? :?

    Of course establishments whose purpose is smoking would be exempt from a no-smoking policy, e.g. cigar bars are exempt from the policy here. But we're not talking about those places. We're talking about places whose purpose is to provide food, alcohol, and musical entertainment, which people should be able to enjoy without being subjected to smoke.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    To me, the contrarian issue here is not allowing people to do something that is perfectly legal anywhere but in their own homes. I can't think of a single other product or industry that has that strict a regulation implemented.

    You lost me. How is smoking not legal in people's own homes? :?
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I'm gonna start a new awesome habit... I call it Monkeying around. I'm gonna throw my feces around in public places. If people don't like it, they can go else where... and don't tell me about the health risks or issues for myself or others - I do not care and those who are bothered by my habit can just accept it and alter their ways for my habit which could effect them.

    ha ha ha !! I double dog dare ya :lol::lol:

    Godfather.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I'm gonna start a new awesome habit... I call it Monkeying around. I'm gonna throw my feces around in public places. If people don't like it, they can go else where... and don't tell me about the health risks or issues for myself or others - I do not care and those who are bothered by my habit can just accept it and alter their ways for my habit which could effect them.

    :thumbup:
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    You know what is sad, is that my example is exactly what people believe and do, except my example is about feces compared to smoking.

    All you smokers - get cancer and die. Good riddance.
    Godfather. wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I'm gonna start a new awesome habit... I call it Monkeying around. I'm gonna throw my feces around in public places. If people don't like it, they can go else where... and don't tell me about the health risks or issues for myself or others - I do not care and those who are bothered by my habit can just accept it and alter their ways for my habit which could effect them.

    ha ha ha !! I double dog dare ya :lol::lol:

    Godfather.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I'm gonna start a new awesome habit... I call it Monkeying around. I'm gonna throw my feces around in public places. If people don't like it, they can go else where... and don't tell me about the health risks or issues for myself or others - I do not care and those who are bothered by my habit can just accept it and alter their ways for my habit which could effect them.
    cute.
    You could apply this mentality to the righteous, judgemental behaviours of the anti-smoking crowd too. In fact...you guys don't say 'go else where'...you say 'go home, or nowhere'.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    Godfather. wrote:
    5. How in hell are most smokers "considerate" of non-smokers?

    yes I'm a smoker....damn it I'm trying to quit :x

    people that know know that if they don't smoke I will not be close enough to them to bother
    them with my smoke,it's called being considerate.
    but the last thing any smoker wants is someone talking shit about them because they smoke..
    if I'm having a cig and I'm alone and you don't smoke stay away from me simple as that..
    don't ask me to put my cig out just for you,last time that happened I told them to leave.
    there are a whole lot of thing's worse to worry about than somebody that doesn't conform to a
    non smoker's world..welcome to the smoker's world they live here too ;)
    it is a nasty smell no doubt but then again so is body oder...you the type,not real up on their hygiene :shock:

    Godfather.

    Well congratulations on your efforts to quit and good luck.

    For the record, the only smoker I really give any shit to is my sister. And that's because 1) I love her and I'm concerned about her health. 2) I know I'll be the one taking care of her for 10 years when we're old and she's suffering from emphysema.

    Regarding smokers being considerate, people who are smoking can have all the considerate intentions in the world, but it doesn't really matter when you're trapped in an enclosed room with them.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    FiveB247x wrote:
    All you smokers - get cancer and die. Good riddance.
    ^^^and this is exactly why I get involved in these threads as a non-smoker. real fucking classy pal.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Actually, it's something I feel appropriate in all aspects of life.. whatever your vice or action. Accountability sure is a sexy idea ain't it? If you do x, y will happen. Not a tough concept eh?

    Also, people are entitled to do as they please, but your singular actions should not interfere, interrupt or be detrimental to anyone but yourself. Not a hard concept for anyone to live by. Respectful for others.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    All you smokers - get cancer and die. Good riddance.
    ^^^and this is exactly why I get involved in these threads as a non-smoker. real fucking classy pal.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Actually, it's something I feel appropriate in all aspects of life.. whatever your vice or action. Accountability sure is a sexy idea ain't it? If you do x, y will happen. Not a tough concept eh?

    Also, people are entitled to do as they please, but your singular actions should not interfere, interrupt or be detrimental to anyone but yourself. Not a hard concept for anyone to live by. Respectful for others.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    All you smokers - get cancer and die. Good riddance.
    ^^^and this is exactly why I get involved in these threads as a non-smoker. real fucking classy pal.
    accountability does not = get cancer and die.
    Respectful of others = wishing death upon people over their vices?

    By your logic...I'll hope you die in a car accident because you choose to drive. good riddance.
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