Ed on religion

Rhinocerous Surprise

Jeanie wrote:

yeah sure!

I was just hard at work wading through all the replies since I went to sleep and with only one coffee in me, my brain struggling with such HUGE concepts so early in the morning and the original comment popped out, made me instantly think Random Selection! It's probably the ONLY cohesive thing I've thought all morning! And there you were!

This sure is an interesting thread.

To start so innocuously... and develop into... this...

You could almost say it evolved.:p

Cue shitstorm.:D

Big Man

godd night everyone, and don't forget: Believe is a decision.

Big Man

catefrances wrote:

and this why i think the way i do on this. i have never doubted my atheism. but it was my doubting christianity that led me to it.

Maybe you didn't ask the question? I think for someone to say: 'There is no God' he must know the whole universe. Or how can you be sure and never doubting?

catefrances

Big Man wrote:

godd night everyone, and don't forget: Believe is a decision.

as is non belief.

catefrances

Big Man wrote:

Maybe you didn't ask the question? I think for someone to say: 'There is no God' he must know the whole universe. Or how can you be sure and never doubting?

who knows how i know it. i feel it deep within my core, thats all i can say. and youre probably the same with the belief.

Big Man

catefrances wrote:

as is non belief.

yeah, thats what I meant, of course. non believers believe also. They believe there is no God. That is the decision they make. Agnostics are different. but anyway, I'm off now, keep it cool... and oh yeah thread integrity.. I am pretty sure Eddy Vedder believes in some kind of absolute. I think he sings about it on several songs, for example "Severed Hand" and on MSG DVD he said something during Wishlist, if I am not mistaken. So, sheeps.... CONVERT NOW

Cosmo

Big Man wrote:

Yes of course. You know I had a bad feeling typing it, but then I thought f*ck it. I remember how I started out and it was a T-Shirt stating "Try God". It can be as easy as that. It helped me and billions of people a lot. And in the end, when there is no God, my life still got improved by faith and hope. And dont think people only believe out of fear. For me, most of the times it is because of gratitude. Plus you never are alone plus you can make sense of the world plus plus plus. Dont think believers dont know doubt. of course we do. The pope has a great chapter on doubt in his introduction to Christianity. He says everybody has doubts. But it is better to doubt the Christian view as a Christian, than to doubt the Atheist view as an atheist. I think its a great thought. If nowone would doubt his believes, noone would care and this thread would not have expanded like it did. It bothers all of us.

'And if you swear that there's no truth and who cares
How come you say it like you're right?' (Bright Eyes)

...
Wow... imagine if that T-shirt said, "Moustache Rides... 5 Cents".
And do not feel that people who do not believe in God... lack hope and faith. They are not lost and empty and alone. Positive human traits are not exclusve to religious people... or people who say they are religious.
...
Also... you need to explain to me WHY or HOW "Doubting a Christian view as a Christian, is better than to doubt the Atheist view as an atheist". Because, i don't get it. How is doubting your God any better than doubting the non-existance of Him?

Big Man

Crazy Breed wrote:

dude i'm a Christian so let me be the one to tell you the pope is a fucking fraud!!

once again follow this link.

http://bupc.montana.com/whores/Popeseat.html

Sorry, but as I said, every possible opinion is out there and I only trust academic rescources when it comes to important information. The internet is a black hole of unhealthy ideollogy-ridden crazy texts, videos and so on.... I dont want to read something like that. (I read a few lines. I'm sorry it sounds arrogant.)

Cosmo

Big Man wrote:

godd night everyone, and don't forget: Believe is a decision.

...
True. And belief is NOT Truth.

Jeanie

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

To start so innocuously... and develop into... this...

You could almost say it evolved.: p

Cue shitstorm.:D

haha!

Rhino you do make me laugh!

Chaos theory anyone????

Big Man

Cosmo wrote:

...
Wow... imagine if that T-shirt said, "Moustache Rides... 5 Cents".
And do not feel that people who do not believe in God... lack hope and faith. They are not lost and empty and alone. Positive human traits are not exclusve to religious people... or people who say they are religious.
...
Also... you need to explain to me WHY or HOW "Doubting a Christian view as a Christian, is better than to doubt the Atheist view as an atheist". Because, i don't get it. How is doubting your God any better than doubting the non-existance of Him?

because we cannot KNOW FOR SURE who is right. If the atheist is right, then both, Christians and ahteist end up... in Nothingness. If Jesus is right, the good Christians (and probably all good people / or all people, it depends on the interpretation) end up in Heaven.

Plus, your life here gets better. I was not talking about hope like the hope to stay healthy or earn a lot of money. I was talking about the one big hope: that this life means something. that everyday matters. that death is not the end,

boy i am going to bed right now.

Rhinocerous Surprise

Jeanie wrote:

haha!

Rhino you do make me laugh!

Chaos theory anyone????

Sssshhhh. Don't say the word "theory". Leads to mean discussions, and lots of exclamation marks.

Jeanie

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Sssshhhh. Don't say the word "theory". Leads to mean discussions, and lots of exclamation marks.

Is that what sets folks off?

Hallelujah! I have the key!

Rhinocerous Surprise

Jeanie wrote:

Is that what sets folks off?

Hallelujah! I have the key!

It's like the Da Vinci Code, but instead of Masons and clues, we have Excla-Masons, and lots of people without a clue*.:p

I should quit while I'm ahead.:cool:



*On both sides of whatever argument we're on at this point.:p

Jeanie

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

It's like the Da Vinci Code, but instead of Masons and clues, we have Excla-Masons, and lots of people without a clue*.:p

I should quit while I'm ahead.: cool:



*On both sides of whatever argument we're on at this point.:p

haha! Excla Masons!

I've found it all very illuminating and never been a big believer in black or white so there's no sides in an argument, just folks arguing from their perspective. Could be a lot of sides.

Rhinocerous Surprise

Jeanie wrote:

haha! Excla Masons!

I've found it all very illuminating and never been a big believer in black or white so there's no sides in an argument, just folks arguing from their perspective. Could be a lot of sides.

It's like a big circle, and we're all just tossing our opinions into the middle. But sometimes, you get tired of throwing things, or your arm gets kinda sore cos you're outta shape. And then you just kinda wanna play Ring Around The Rosie. Can we?:D

U R A Crazy Breed

Big Man wrote:

Sorry, but as I said, every possible opinion is out there and I only trust academic rescources when it comes to important information. The internet is a black hole of unhealthy ideollogy-ridden crazy texts, videos and so on.... I dont want to read something like that. (I read a few lines. I'm sorry it sounds arrogant.)

arrogant? i think not.



After the death of Belshazzar in 539 B.C., the Persian Emperor Cyrus conquered Babylon and forced the Babylonian princes to flee to Pergamum. They continued their reign there as priest-kings of Babylonian paganism. In 133 B.C., Attalus III, the last Babylonian King to rule in Pergamum, willed his dominions to the Roman Caesar, and the kingdom of Pergamum merged with the Roman Empire along with Satan-Nimrod’s throne and the title "Pontifex Maximus."

In 63 B.C., Julius Caesar, who had been elected Pontifex Maximus, became emperor of Rome and vested the office of Roman emperor with the priestly powers and functions of the Babylonian Pontiff. Henceforth, the title Pontifex Maximus was used by the Roman Caesars as illustrated on a Roman coin depicting the image of Augustus Caesar (27 B.C.-14 A.D.) with his title "Pont. Max.," which is an abbreviation of Pontifex Maximus (Figure 4, page 26). Thus, the Roman emperors, like the preceding Babylonian emperors, now served as priests of Babylonian paganism, and bore the title Pontifex Maximus.

For centuries, Pergamum remained the site of Nimrod’s throne. With the appearance of Christianity, Babylonian paganism threatened the early Christian church of Pergamum as related in the Revelation given by Jesus to His Apostle John, who referred to Pergamum as the seat of Satan’s throne which is Nimrod’s throne:

"And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ‘The words of him who has the sharp two-edged sword.

"‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is [i.e., Nimrod’s Throne]; you hold fast my name and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam [pagan Babylonian trinity of Nimrod], who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice immorality.

- Apostle John

In 376 A.D., Gratian became the first Roman emperor to refuse the idolatrous title of Pontifex Maximus. He presented the Babylonian Throne, or Satan-Nimrod’s Throne to the bishop of Rome.

By this time, the Roman bishops had advanced in political power, and in 378 A.D., Bishop Damasus was elected Pontifex Maximus, becoming the official pagan Babylonian priest seated on Satan’s throne in Rome. As such, the bishop converted the pagan Babylonian temples of Rome into Trinitarian Christian churches and introduced the worship of Nimrod, Semiramis and the god-incarnate son under the respective titles of "god the father," "god the son" and "god the holy spirit." All the pomp and ceremony that existed in ancient Babylon was now practiced as Roman Trinitarian Christianity.

Before the Babylonian conversion into Trinitarian Christianity, the early Christians were a small cult surrounded by numerous Babylonian pagan temples. Historians, however, relate the amazing "overnight" conversion of Romans to Trinitarian Christianity, which coincided to a remarkable and unprecedented disappearance of paganism. In actuality, the Roman pagans did not convert to Trinitarian Christianity; but rather, Bishop Damasus exercised his authority as head of Babylonian paganism in Rome, and replaced all the Christian elders with pagan priests and continued the practice of the pagan Babylonian Mystery religion under the name of Trinitarian Christianity. Henceforth, all the bishops of Rome have donned the robes of Nimrod along with the title of Pontifex Maximus.

The Roman Catholic bishops were viewed by most Christians as head of Trinitarian Christianity, and entitled pope or "pater patrum" in Latin, that is, "father of the fathers," despite the fact that Jesus the Christ forbid His followers to refer to anyone as father except for the heavenly Father:

But you are not to be called rabbi [Hebrew for master or teacher ], for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father [pope, derived from the Greek "papa" meaning father138 ] on earth, for you have one Father, who is inheaven. Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ.

Cosmo

Big Man wrote:

because we cannot KNOW FOR SURE who is right. If the atheist is right, then both, Christians and ahteist end up... in Nothingness. If Jesus is right, the good Christians (and probably all good people / or all people, it depends on the interpretation) end up in Heaven.

Plus, your life here gets better. I was not talking about hope like the hope to stay healthy or earn a lot of money. I was talking about the one big hope: that this life means something. that everyday matters. that death is not the end,

boy i am going to bed right now.

...
I've heard this one before... and you know what? It's belief... 'Just In Case'. The logic is used to basically cover your ass in case God exists and the rules thrown down by religion apply. Like, you don't need a Commandment to tell you not to steal... you don't keep from stealing because God sees everything and will judge you by your actions... you don't steal because it just ain't right.
And as I have stated... I know a lot of people who do not buy into religion that are kind and generous and humble and giving. Instead of hoping for more after this life... they are DOING good in the time they are alloted.
The whole concept of Heaven and Hell is based upon doing good and not doing bad... with strings attached. The purpose of goodness... kindness... forgiveness... is NOT to be rewarded or acknowledged. You do those things because of the humanity in you... because it is the right thing to do... the human thing to do.
...
So... yeah... you are tired. Go to sleep and read this stuff with a fresh sense. And please, understand, I am NOT trying to dissuade you or cause doubt. I am just posing my beliefs on why I'm better off on my own.

Jeanie

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

It's like a big circle, and we're all just tossing our opinions into the middle. But sometimes, you get tired of throwing things, or your arm gets kinda sore cos you're outta shape. And then you just kinda wanna play Ring Around The Rosie. Can we?:D

Yes! A bit like playing soggy biscuit! :eek:

I've read some interesting things here today though. It's not changed my opinion, no wait, it's not changed my beliefs but it's interesting. I do find it interesting that people project so much onto Ed when they don't know him.

We can play Ring Around The Rosie my friend HOWEVER, it's probably better we don't do it here, given the current climate.

Rhinocerous Surprise

Jeanie wrote:

Yes! A bit like playing soggy biscuit! :eek:

I've read some interesting things here today though. It's not changed my opinion, no wait, it's not changed my beliefs but it's interesting. I do find it interesting that people project so much onto Ed when they don't know him.

We can play Ring Around The Rosie my friend HOWEVER, it's probably better we don't do it here, given the current climate.

Yeah... for me, Ed's little speeches are food for thought when I want to mull over the meaning of the music. They're not what got me into the band, or what will keep me buying their music. I guess it helps that he's pretty liberal, but it's not some life-altering deal.

And even that is more thought than I like to put into analysing Ed's beliefs. Cos they're his, not mine.

And now? Now I frolick merrily.:p