Not trying to defend Jr but inflated homerun numbers because I question ALL players from that era. However, what do you consider is inflated HR numbers? 56 homeruns 2 years in a row is inflated?????
Peace
A jump from hitting 15, 22, 22, and 27 to 45, 40, 17 due to tendon issues, 49, 56,56, 48, 40 followed by declines to 22, 8 ( more roids injuries), 13, (further roid injuries), 20, 35, 27, 30...is an arc that screams steroid use staring in 1993 and ceasing around 2001.
Not saying its for certain, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence with the sudden power jump and the later injury woes, many being tendon and muscular.
Not trying to defend Jr but inflated homerun numbers because I question ALL players from that era. However, what do you consider is inflated HR numbers? 56 homeruns 2 years in a row is inflated?????
Peace
A jump from hitting 15, 22, 22, and 27 to 45, 40, 17 due to tendon issues, 49, 56,56, 48, 40 followed by declines to 22, 8 ( more roids injuries), 13, (further roid injuries), 20, 35, 27, 30...is an arc that screams steroid use staring in 1993 and ceasing around 2001.
Not saying its for certain, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence with the sudden power jump and the later injury woes, many being tendon and muscular.
I wouldnt be the least bit surprised to hear Jr. was doing steroids........
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I'm not naive and I know everybody was juicing...but I'd be very upset to find out Griffey was taking PEDs. I wouldn't be upset by anyone else at this point. I wouldn't be shocked that Junior took them, just very sad. Say it ain't so...
I wish I was as fortunate, as fortunate as me.
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Great responses to this topic. I get Poncier's argument and also understand everyone's skepticism about all players during that juiced-up era, but it is not enough for me to think that Jr was a juicer. The Kid had/has just natural born talent and one of the sweetest swings in all of baseball. When he was hitting his highest numbers, I believe he was simply just in his natural prime. That, coupled with the common notion amongst professional sports writers that Jr did it the right way - the clean way. His name has never once been associated with PED's in all the tales that have unraveled in the last decade.
Yeah, I am sure that I am biased being a lifelong M's fan and have followed Griffey's entire career. I too would be very sad and really crushed if it ever came out that he did in fact cheat to accomplish his feats like so many of his peers in the game apparently did.
if you knock bonds off the top spot for all time homers, its of course: aaron, babe, mays and then griffey jr. Thats a hell of a legacy. He is of course, if bonds is knocked off as he should be, then the top slugging player of his generation. 4th all time. He probably will be done soon, I assume, but he needs just 31 more and he is 3rd all time and passes mays. After griffey if we knock the users off is Frank Thomas at 5th, then Harmon Killebrew at 6
Being in the top 4 home run hitters of all time, with 31 to go, to be 3rd, thats unbelieveable.
Say it again, griffey jr is the best home run hitter of his generation, and one of the best of all time. Instead of caving in, and using like all his peers were, he kept plotting along, kept hitting them out of the park.
add on to that the single season hom runs. You take number 1 off: thats Bonds 73, number 2 all time: take mcgwire off 70, you take sosas 66, 64 63 off, and take mcgwires 65 off.
Brings us to the real champ, maris's 61 is 1st. babe is number 2 and 3 at 60 and 59. Jimmy Foxx and Hank Greenberg at 4 with 58. Ryan Howard also hit 58 but probably should be taken off, rumblings of steroid use follow the guy. Mark Mgwire also hit 58 twice, but should be taken off. At number 5 both players should be taken off, Luis Gonzalez should be taken off, rumblings of steroid use follow him as well, same with A-Rod. Nxt is, Griffey Jr, with 56, two years in a row. So. Essentially he is number 5. Again, as with the all time homers list, the most homers in a season list, shows Grifey jr, as basically the only players of his era and generation this high up in the list. He is flanked, up top and at the bottom, by players from entirely different eras and time periods.
He hit the 5th most home runs in a season, 56, twice, in consecutive years, the only player of the 1990's, to do so.
on the all time hr list, those players who made great strides on that list from 1993 or so until 2010, who else other than griffey jr, is clean and has never used? He is consistently the only person, in this discussion on steroids, when we talk about hr hitters to have never used
Thome, who is still playin and Frank Thomas are the other names.
The Big Hurt was just an amazing hitter.
Thome is criminally underrated, especially with all the new names of users comin out.
Say it again, griffey jr is the best home run hitter of his generation, and one of the best of all time. Instead of caving in, and using like all his peers were, he kept plotting along, kept hitting them out of the park.
But again, this is just your assumption.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Say it again, griffey jr is the best home run hitter of his generation, and one of the best of all time. Instead of caving in, and using like all his peers were, he kept plotting along, kept hitting them out of the park.
But again, this is just your assumption.
Just wondering, what do guys like Griffey need to do to prove his innocence? Or is that impossible?
He floated back down 'cause he wanted to share, his key to the locks on the chains he saw everywhere.
Let's not forget that "greenies" and other amphetamines were used as PEDS from as far back as the 50s. Baseball has always been full of performance enhancers, or at least during the last 60 years.
I say treat them all the same way, and if there is controversy about a particular player's inflated stats, let that be included as the main text on their HOF plaque (McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, et al).
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Just wondering, what do guys like Griffey need to do to prove his innocence? Or is that impossible?
I think it is impossible at this stage. What they needed to do was release the entire list of names instead of leaking a few key names. Unfortunately he will always be tied into the steroid era. User or not, that's just how it goes. But with no evidence, he will get into the HOF and leave the others in his dust.
He seems like a nice, stand-up guy, but you just never know. McGwire seems like a nice guy too...
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Musicismylife, I may have missed something but where are all the allegations of Ryan Howard using PEDs? I've never heard anything credible. I just think he is a big guy with tons of power. Now Pujols on the other hand, I have my suspicions.
I wish I was as fortunate, as fortunate as me.
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While the steroid topic is mildly interesting, I think they're focusing a little too much on it. Athletes are entertainers. People pay to be entertained. They're doing the best they can to perform well for all of you. Plus, they're not perfect humans. Everybody has skeletons or flaws. Why does this country put so much faith in the so-called sanctity of baseball? It's pointless. It's a bunch of grown ass men getting paid millions to play a child's game.
And our fucking Congress got involved!! Like our government doesn't have any better shit to do than stick their noses in baseball's asshole. Embarrassing.
While the steroid topic is mildly interesting, I think they're focusing a little too much on it. Athletes are entertainers. People pay to be entertained. They're doing the best they can to perform well for all of you. Plus, they're not perfect humans. Everybody has skeletons or flaws. Why does this country put so much faith in the so-called sanctity of baseball? It's pointless. It's a bunch of grown ass men getting paid millions to play a child's game.
And our fucking Congress got involved!! Like our government doesn't have any better shit to do than stick their noses in baseball's asshole. Embarrassing.
Also, having congress investigate the wrong doings of others is like having Jeffrey Dahmer lead a discussion on the benefits of a vegan lifestyle.
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Coming to this late in the discussion but....
I never cared for Junior whatsoever...thought he was a pompous ass...but all this time later and given all the steroid shit that has come out I have a very high amount of respect for him now and believe that without all the injuries he suffered he would the all-time homerun king now instead of that other guy who I absolutely loathe.
Did Junior use? I don't know for sure anymore than anyone else does, but it is my impression that he did not simply because I have never heard his named mentioned or tossed about in the debate. He never showed the signs of taking them and never had a mjaor spike in his homerun hitting that I am aware of.
it would seem to me that instead of taking the stuff to help him get over some of his injuries he maybe had too much respect for the game at the end of the day to cheat and if his career...and possibly being known at homerun king....was lost because of it then so be it.
Then again...maybe he juiced it up like all the rest did....I'm simply saying I don't believe he did.
And yes...perhaps he should be considered the homerun champion for 1998.
All I have to do is revel in the everyday....then do it again tomorrow
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
Musicismylife, I may have missed something but where are all the allegations of Ryan Howard using PEDs? I've never heard anything credible. I just think he is a big guy with tons of power. Now Pujols on the other hand, I have my suspicions.
Pujols? I'd guess Howard long before Pujols. He hits the ball hard for high average. No secret to that formula. He could be 150 lbs and still hit that way. He's superhuman. The reason he gets doubted is b/c most people haven't seen a legit player on his level in their lifetime.
if you knock bonds off the top spot for all time homers, its of course: aaron, babe, mays and then griffey jr. Thats a hell of a legacy. He is of course, if bonds is knocked off as he should be, then the top slugging player of his generation. 4th all time. He probably will be done soon, I assume, but he needs just 31 more and he is 3rd all time and passes mays. After griffey if we knock the users off is Frank Thomas at 5th, then Harmon Killebrew at 6
e!
Move him up 2 more spots b/c Aaron and Mays. If they gave em to plyaers they coached, they took themselves.
Musicismylife, I may have missed something but where are all the allegations of Ryan Howard using PEDs? I've never heard anything credible. I just think he is a big guy with tons of power. Now Pujols on the other hand, I have my suspicions.
Pujols? I'd guess Howard long before Pujols. He hits the ball hard for high average. No secret to that formula. He could be 150 lbs and still hit that way. He's superhuman. The reason he gets doubted is b/c most people haven't seen a legit player on his level in their lifetime.
I really hope Howard's not juicing. I don't think he is though. He's naturally huge and a bit overweight (though he did drop about 20 pds last year). I've always suspected Pujols though.
Griffey was my favorite non Phillie growing up. Well, him and Will Clark. They both had the sweetest swing's I've ever seen.
I remember watching Griff take batting practice at Camden Yards in '98. People were going nuts chasing those balls in front of the warehouse.
Musicismylife, I may have missed something but where are all the allegations of Ryan Howard using PEDs? I've never heard anything credible. I just think he is a big guy with tons of power. Now Pujols on the other hand, I have my suspicions.
Pujols? I'd guess Howard long before Pujols. He hits the ball hard for high average. No secret to that formula. He could be 150 lbs and still hit that way. He's superhuman. The reason he gets doubted is b/c most people haven't seen a legit player on his level in their lifetime.
I really hope Howard's not juicing. I don't think he is though. He's naturally huge and a bit overweight (though he did drop about 20 pds last year). I've always suspected Pujols though.
Griffey was my favorite non Phillie growing up. Well, him and Will Clark. They both had the sweetest swing's I've ever seen.
I remember watching Griff take batting practice at Camden Yards in '98. People were going nuts chasing those balls in front of the warehouse.
Judging from their bodies neither one really looks the part.
Albert Pujols is superhuman. I saw him hit an upper deck homerun with his cock...twice.
He's the guy that I took my son to see last year because I wanted him to be able to say he saw him play in person. During the game, Pujols threw a ball to my boy. I posted a pic on here last year sometime. One of the coolest moments of my life.
Long story short, Pujols doesn't use steroids because he was nice to my kid. That's deductive reasoning at it's finest.
I hope Griffey didn't juice, but who know from that era. One of my fav players, Clemens was found guilty of doing them. :oops:
As far as this generation's homerun hitters, i hope and highly doubt Pujols, Howard or Price Fielder have taken anything
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
Funny you should say that. I always thought your writing "voice" would lend itself perfectly to a modern detective noir style. Your main character could leave your audience howling with laughter while solving dark, disturbing mysteries.
*If you do decide to go this route, you owe me a %.
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Funny you should say that. I always thought your writing "voice" would lend itself perfectly to a modern detective noir style. Your main character could leave your audience howling with laughter while solving dark, disturbing mysteries.
*If you do decide to go this route, you owe me a %.
lmao
i post on the board of a band that doesn't exsist anymore .......i need my head examined.......
Albert Pujols is superhuman. I saw him hit an upper deck homerun with his cock...twice.
He's the guy that I took my son to see last year because I wanted him to be able to say he saw him play in person. During the game, Pujols threw a ball to my boy. I posted a pic on here last year sometime. One of the coolest moments of my life.
Long story short, Pujols doesn't use steroids because he was nice to my kid. That's deductive reasoning at it's finest.
He IS superhuman. A hitter with his power numbers and he's hardly struck out 50x in a season. Amazing work ethic, great mind for it and unquestionable physical traits.
Those who have studied Pujols in depth have concluded that he recognizes the pitch as it leaves the pitcher's hand. That's light years faster than the average hitter.
Oh, and eyed my friend, quite an excellent observation of my writing voice. You have gotten in touch with your inner-donkey.
Those who have studied Pujols in depth have concluded that he recognizes the pitch as it leaves the pitcher's hand. That's light years faster than the average hitter.
Funny you should mention studies on Pujols. I heard that a college in St Lou had him in for some testing to see what made him so great. They rigged him up to see how many times he could press a button in an allotted time. He went too fast for the computer.
isnt pujols the guy mcgwire himself said will go down in history as the greatest player in mlb history?
His face was worth a million words when costas suggested that, because of his associate with mcgwire and by merely playing in this era, that pujols could be tainted as a user by default. Mcgwire looked like he wanted to throw up
Comments
Not saying its for certain, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence with the sudden power jump and the later injury woes, many being tendon and muscular.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
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Yeah, I am sure that I am biased being a lifelong M's fan and have followed Griffey's entire career. I too would be very sad and really crushed if it ever came out that he did in fact cheat to accomplish his feats like so many of his peers in the game apparently did.
Being in the top 4 home run hitters of all time, with 31 to go, to be 3rd, thats unbelieveable.
Say it again, griffey jr is the best home run hitter of his generation, and one of the best of all time. Instead of caving in, and using like all his peers were, he kept plotting along, kept hitting them out of the park.
Unreal. 4th all time!
Brings us to the real champ, maris's 61 is 1st. babe is number 2 and 3 at 60 and 59. Jimmy Foxx and Hank Greenberg at 4 with 58. Ryan Howard also hit 58 but probably should be taken off, rumblings of steroid use follow the guy. Mark Mgwire also hit 58 twice, but should be taken off. At number 5 both players should be taken off, Luis Gonzalez should be taken off, rumblings of steroid use follow him as well, same with A-Rod. Nxt is, Griffey Jr, with 56, two years in a row. So. Essentially he is number 5. Again, as with the all time homers list, the most homers in a season list, shows Grifey jr, as basically the only players of his era and generation this high up in the list. He is flanked, up top and at the bottom, by players from entirely different eras and time periods.
He hit the 5th most home runs in a season, 56, twice, in consecutive years, the only player of the 1990's, to do so.
Again, Unreal.
Thome, who is still playin and Frank Thomas are the other names.
The Big Hurt was just an amazing hitter.
Thome is criminally underrated, especially with all the new names of users comin out.
But again, this is just your assumption.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Just wondering, what do guys like Griffey need to do to prove his innocence? Or is that impossible?
I say treat them all the same way, and if there is controversy about a particular player's inflated stats, let that be included as the main text on their HOF plaque (McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, et al).
I think it is impossible at this stage. What they needed to do was release the entire list of names instead of leaking a few key names. Unfortunately he will always be tied into the steroid era. User or not, that's just how it goes. But with no evidence, he will get into the HOF and leave the others in his dust.
He seems like a nice, stand-up guy, but you just never know. McGwire seems like a nice guy too...
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
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And our fucking Congress got involved!! Like our government doesn't have any better shit to do than stick their noses in baseball's asshole. Embarrassing.
Also, having congress investigate the wrong doings of others is like having Jeffrey Dahmer lead a discussion on the benefits of a vegan lifestyle.
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Jump on board bytchez
I never cared for Junior whatsoever...thought he was a pompous ass...but all this time later and given all the steroid shit that has come out I have a very high amount of respect for him now and believe that without all the injuries he suffered he would the all-time homerun king now instead of that other guy who I absolutely loathe.
Did Junior use? I don't know for sure anymore than anyone else does, but it is my impression that he did not simply because I have never heard his named mentioned or tossed about in the debate. He never showed the signs of taking them and never had a mjaor spike in his homerun hitting that I am aware of.
it would seem to me that instead of taking the stuff to help him get over some of his injuries he maybe had too much respect for the game at the end of the day to cheat and if his career...and possibly being known at homerun king....was lost because of it then so be it.
Then again...maybe he juiced it up like all the rest did....I'm simply saying I don't believe he did.
And yes...perhaps he should be considered the homerun champion for 1998.
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
I'm on board...until you guys throw me overboard
And yeah, at this point I no longer care who did steroids...the home run chase in 98 was fun
Pujols? I'd guess Howard long before Pujols. He hits the ball hard for high average. No secret to that formula. He could be 150 lbs and still hit that way. He's superhuman. The reason he gets doubted is b/c most people haven't seen a legit player on his level in their lifetime.
Move him up 2 more spots b/c Aaron and Mays. If they gave em to plyaers they coached, they took themselves.
I really hope Howard's not juicing. I don't think he is though. He's naturally huge and a bit overweight (though he did drop about 20 pds last year). I've always suspected Pujols though.
Griffey was my favorite non Phillie growing up. Well, him and Will Clark. They both had the sweetest swing's I've ever seen.
I remember watching Griff take batting practice at Camden Yards in '98. People were going nuts chasing those balls in front of the warehouse.
Judging from their bodies neither one really looks the part.
He's the guy that I took my son to see last year because I wanted him to be able to say he saw him play in person. During the game, Pujols threw a ball to my boy. I posted a pic on here last year sometime. One of the coolest moments of my life.
Long story short, Pujols doesn't use steroids because he was nice to my kid. That's deductive reasoning at it's finest.
As far as this generation's homerun hitters, i hope and highly doubt Pujols, Howard or Price Fielder have taken anything
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
Funny you should say that. I always thought your writing "voice" would lend itself perfectly to a modern detective noir style. Your main character could leave your audience howling with laughter while solving dark, disturbing mysteries.
*If you do decide to go this route, you owe me a %.
Please Support My Writing Habit By Purchasing A Book:
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http://earthtremors.blogspot.com/
lmao
He IS superhuman. A hitter with his power numbers and he's hardly struck out 50x in a season. Amazing work ethic, great mind for it and unquestionable physical traits.
Oh, and eyed my friend, quite an excellent observation of my writing voice. You have gotten in touch with your inner-donkey.
Well done.
Funny you should mention studies on Pujols. I heard that a college in St Lou had him in for some testing to see what made him so great. They rigged him up to see how many times he could press a button in an allotted time. He went too fast for the computer.
His face was worth a million words when costas suggested that, because of his associate with mcgwire and by merely playing in this era, that pujols could be tainted as a user by default. Mcgwire looked like he wanted to throw up