Anyone here believe in near death experiences or ghosts??
Shawshank
Posts: 1,018
First of all, I believe in God, and I am a Christian. I know that some fellow Christians frown upon thoughts and beliefs such as the ones I'm discussing here, but it's just an interest of mine. I haven't had any real "ghost" experiences, other than a picture I took on an old battlefield a few years ago, but I thought I would include them in the topic as well. Since things always seem to turn towards absolutes regarding God, or no God, religion etc....I was just curious if there are people here who believe in near death experiences or ghosts.
This is something I never talk about, but I was curious what others take on this might be. About 35 years ago, my dad was involved in a horrendous car accident. He was in a coma for over a month. He actually died and was revived 3 times....the first time was at the scene of the accident and the next two times were in the emergency room. He remembers vividly, being above the accident, and able to describe the condition of his car, the location, the number of ambulances, and the clothing the EMT's were wearing, even the names of one of the EMT guys. When he got to the emergency room, he said he felt as though he was "floating" above the room, looking down at himself. Even though he was clinically dead twice, he only remembers seeing this happen for one long stretch of time. He could describe in detail what the doctors did to him....along with one procedure that only the doctors actually could confirm had occurred. He was able to describe the room in detail, including the color and pattern of the floor tile, even though he was only in there that one time. Towards the end, he said he could see a group of people starting to surround his body, but they weren't doctors. He said at that moment he knew they were there to take him, but he didn't want to go. As a side note, he felt as though he was a failed father before this accident occurred, and he wanted to have a second chance. He said he screamed that he could not go, that he wanted to have a second chance. He kept pleading and fighting with them. And that was it. That's all he remembers of it.
He doesn't talk about it much, but this is something I've always been fascinated about. If it wasn't my dad, I don't think I could have ever believed it. There are a lot of people that die and come back who don't have any experiences at all. Even my dad didn't have much belief in God, or anything after, until this happened. Seeing tunnels of light, and feeling good I can give to being the shutdown of the brain. But seeing, in detail, your surroundings when you are flatlined is something different. The one doctor who was assigned to him the entire time, was able to confirm everything to my grandmother afterwards, including the procedure that was done and how it was done. My grandmother even went down to the ER area that received him and was able to see that the brown and white tile floor with the figure 8 patterns was exactly like my dad described....along with the number of beds, the desk location and other details.
Anyway, just something I thought I would share and see if anyone else has had any similar experiences with people they know.
This is something I never talk about, but I was curious what others take on this might be. About 35 years ago, my dad was involved in a horrendous car accident. He was in a coma for over a month. He actually died and was revived 3 times....the first time was at the scene of the accident and the next two times were in the emergency room. He remembers vividly, being above the accident, and able to describe the condition of his car, the location, the number of ambulances, and the clothing the EMT's were wearing, even the names of one of the EMT guys. When he got to the emergency room, he said he felt as though he was "floating" above the room, looking down at himself. Even though he was clinically dead twice, he only remembers seeing this happen for one long stretch of time. He could describe in detail what the doctors did to him....along with one procedure that only the doctors actually could confirm had occurred. He was able to describe the room in detail, including the color and pattern of the floor tile, even though he was only in there that one time. Towards the end, he said he could see a group of people starting to surround his body, but they weren't doctors. He said at that moment he knew they were there to take him, but he didn't want to go. As a side note, he felt as though he was a failed father before this accident occurred, and he wanted to have a second chance. He said he screamed that he could not go, that he wanted to have a second chance. He kept pleading and fighting with them. And that was it. That's all he remembers of it.
He doesn't talk about it much, but this is something I've always been fascinated about. If it wasn't my dad, I don't think I could have ever believed it. There are a lot of people that die and come back who don't have any experiences at all. Even my dad didn't have much belief in God, or anything after, until this happened. Seeing tunnels of light, and feeling good I can give to being the shutdown of the brain. But seeing, in detail, your surroundings when you are flatlined is something different. The one doctor who was assigned to him the entire time, was able to confirm everything to my grandmother afterwards, including the procedure that was done and how it was done. My grandmother even went down to the ER area that received him and was able to see that the brown and white tile floor with the figure 8 patterns was exactly like my dad described....along with the number of beds, the desk location and other details.
Anyway, just something I thought I would share and see if anyone else has had any similar experiences with people they know.
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Let's see it then.
I read this book on the subject about 5 years ago: http://www.amazon.com/Into-Light-Afterl ... 115&sr=8-2
It's very good. You may wanna check it out. These people definitely are not making this stuff up.
I also find it interesting that for thousands of years every culture in the world believed in an afterlife, from the Greeks, to the Ancient Egyptians, the Meso-American cultures, to the Chinese. Could all of these people have been wrong for so long? I doubt it very much.
I just read a good article published recently on the Chinese attitude to these matters: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/ ... ssler-text
Also, I know that there are people who take the drug Ketamine in order to induce near-death experiences:
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/paranormal12.html
'...Because the near-death experience and its corresponding out-of-body experience can be induced using drugs, many scientists conclude incorrectly from this that such mystical experiences can be reduced solely to brain chemistry. The same incorrect logic can be applied to just about any human experience. This would mean that every human experience is only a brain chemical function. Anybody who has ever experienced such things as synchronicity, out-of-body experiences, near-death experiences, after-death visitations, or anything remotely paranormal, is only experiencing a phenomenon that exists only in brain chemicals. Many researchers use scientific reductionism to reduce everything to its most basic elements. There is no doubt that the near-death experience involves the mind/brain connection, but to say that the mind is nothing more than a brain and chemicals is to assume a lot. The fact that near-death experiences can be reproduced in the laboratory proves that this is a real scientific phenomenon. By reproducing the near-death experience in a laboratory setting, it satisfies the requirements of the scientific method. However, the scientific method has its limitations. It can only measure what is measurable through the senses. Those people who had a near-death experience, know it actually transcends the physical senses and the body all together and it cannot be adequately measured. What many scientists fail to realize is this: Just because it cannot be measured, does not mean it does not exist...'
One "memory" actually came to me as a vision, like watching a movie. I wasn't driving the car that night and my vision was from the passenger's seat - seeing "scenery" spinning around the vehicle at an incredible speed. After this "vision" surfaced in my memory, I also remembered that I had been more frightened than I had ever imagined "frightened" could be. In the vision, I recall at that moment extreme fright, and the realization that I might die - a "voice" told me that I was going to be okay. There were no characteristics to assign to the voice - it was coming from the INSIDE of my head - but it wasn't me saying the words, or even thinking them.
Later when the paramedics arrived, I was unconscious yet I could hear every word of the conversation they were having about the driver and myself and our respective medical conditions. I heard the first paramedic to approach me say "she's dead" as he held some part of my arm or hand trying to find a pulse. For that brief second, I believed I was dead, even though I could hear everything being said around me. Another paramedic came up and felt my neck and said something to the effect if "she's.......but she's not dead". It sounds really trite, but those couple of seconds had a monumental effect on my life.
I was never floating above the scene as an observer as most people describe such experiences, but my awareness was definitely separated from my body's condition. This wasn't imagined, wasn't a dream, and wasn't set into my memory by any other source because unfortunately the driver died and I never had the opportunity to speak with him, or the paramedics. What I experienced was real. There was a lot more to it than what I just covered, but I'd be here all night telling you about it. I guess I couldn't really call it a "near death" experience, but it was something definitely outside the realm of my normal awareness level.
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
How would that explain these people seeing themselves from above? And how would it explain their ability to describe their surroundings, including the people present and the clothes they're wearing, if their eyes are closed and they have been pronounced clinically dead?
i can't explain what happened to you, but i know when we check for vital signs, they are either there or they are not. it's not something you would make a mistake with.
i can see why an experience like that would have a monumental effect on your life.
It's also so great to see you posting in the train again. i have not seen you for a while
Well, I'm pretty torn on the whole ghost thing. I have a deep rooted faith in God, and I'm not saying there can't be ghosts, but it just seems to go against some of my beliefs. With that being said, I did take a trip to Gettysburg a few years ago with my wife. I'm a huge history nut. There is just something about that place that is just indescribable. The vibe I got was crazy. Every so often I would just have these really weird feelings, and the hair on my neck would stand on end.
Well, I'd always read these trip reports about people getting these "orbs" in their pictures. To me, they were just specs of dust in the air. So my wife and I go out on the battlefield one night. I kept bugging her about going out on a "ghost hunt" just for fun. I'll never forget. The moon was full, clouds were moving fast across the night sky, and the wind was brisk. So I hold the camera in front of me and take some pictures. I felt like a complete fool because it was black out, other than the glow of the moon, and I'm snapping pics. Anyway, I snap one and I say...."hey that looks like an orb" just kind of half joking. So we sat there analyzing it a bit. Took a few more and I started seeing more of them. I then hold the camera out and I take 2 shots within about 3 seconds. The first shot showed nothing. Out of the corner of my eye I see something literally fly towards me just for a split second as the flash went off. The second shot showed this.................
Man, the instant I saw that in the view screen, I hauled it to the car. I have never run that fast in my life.
I did die, here at home. No lights from the operating room and no doctors to bring me in and out, so no near death experience and its not cuz I am going to hell, etc. Its cuz I was home.
During that instant, when the first paramedic came up to me, his voice was very excited and sounded as if he was in a hyper state of activity. I felt, from his voice, that he was brand new on the job. The second paramedic's arrival and voice werevery calm and reassuring, even though I was unconscious. There was something in his voice that made me know he was competent and caring whereas the first guy was just plain flustered.
For many years I wanted to meet that second paramedic and thank him for being such a calm, take-charge responder. The strength and calmness in his voice helped me tremendously that night. There was also a surgeon in the emergency room that did an incredible job on a 4 inch long cut in my forehead (vertical). Look at my picture and see if you can see it. The guy had an incredible gift and I'm so fortunate that he was working the emergency room that night.
I couldn't get the name of the paramedic. I did get the last name of the surgeon, but never followed through. I don't live in the same city any more and have always regretted not sending him a letter or a note or something.
And to you Shawshank - W-O-W! That picture is unbelievably freaky.
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
Thus the 'near death experience' and not dead and come back.
My husband has been there and come back twice. His brain was unable to register anything and he did not drift in and out of consciousness. He not only 'saw' and 'heard' what was happening to him, but also saw and heard my daughter, his friend and I in the 'family room'. He said he was quite 'unemotional' and removed when he saw himself, sort of accepting the situation in a way. He said that when he saw my daughter and I, he decided he had to 're-enter' (his words) and fight for his life. He could describe everything in detail. A room he had never seen before, what I was saying to my daughter, etc......
Just saying. That's what he told me.
I'd like to go there one day.
It's pretty well preserved for the most part and well worth the trip. I've read so much about that battle, that when I first arrived there it was like stepping back in time. All these places I had read about, where exactly as I pictured them.
Stop talking about it and see for yourself.
Yep, been there- back in 1968 - what was billed as Ozley Orange. And I believe that it was based on the trip I had. I was very young and glad I had someone there to talk me through the dyingthing. Also glad it was during the daytime. I won't deny having "learned" a great deal that day, but I was/am not strong enough to ever endure that experience again. :?
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
No thanks. I'll just have to die to find out.
what do you mean, "the brain is not right?" I think it is an evolutionary miracle that the pineal gland (your third eye, according to some of us... with this as its ONLY purpose) floods your brain with DMT at death. There are truly no words to describe how beautiful (and weird) this experience is!
Shawshank, cool pic, wow!
I think you will find that the pineal gland has other functions. Also, this mass release of DMT at moment of death and the cause of these 'experiences' is still speculation. Sorry to burst your bubble.
you are correct... I should have said that producing DMT is the only concrete purpose known. It "plays a role" in sexual functions, sleep, the seasons, mood, and is a cataylst for entheogens, but it remains very mysterious as to what chemical processes actually occur. For example; melatonin is definitely produced by the pineal gland, but the function of melatonin in humans is unclear.
Source please? Here is mine:
"The function(s) of melatonin in humans is not clear"
Axelrod J (1970). "The pineal gland". Endeavour 29 (108): 144–8.
Nice story. There are many stories like this that help me keep the faith. Probably the strangest thing that ever happened to me (without going into to much detail)was the time I died in a dream and I was floating to heaven and decided to come back just to wake up with the alarm clock going off telling me to get ready for work. It has always stuck with me though, I will never forget it, it felt diferent.
well then... if you "assure" me then I guess that is better than a source from a scientific journal. :?
We learned alot about melatonin in psychology classes, and I know it's involved heavily in regulating sleep.
Here's the wiki on melatonin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin#Roles_in_humans
(edit)
Here's the wiki on Axelrod. Seems he went on to find out more specifically about the pineal gland in later research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Axelrod
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
That means, I do not believe in souls. But I think the people that experience them are experiencing something that may have an external reality of sorts in at least some cases.
I keep the door open, but mostly agree with the sceptics.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965