yeah, insurance is easy to get.....

redrock

keeponrockin wrote:

I guess I don't understand how this can be seen as a bad thing.

You must be a socialist, therefore akin to Hitler

redrock

porchmonkey77 wrote:

How do you figure? If my neighbor is not paying, then who is? My neighbors pay taxes, so therefore they are paying.

Dearie me...... Of course your neighbour pays taxes and so will you when you are a productive member of society (or already have paid taxes if you worked). And yes... taxes go in a pot and elected government do as they see fit. Wake up to reality.

And at the risk of repeating myself... hope nothing happens to you until you can afford to see a doctor.

phillypjhead

brandon10 wrote:

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Why? Because I would never expect my neighbors to pay for my health care. It's not their responsibility. When I find a job, I will purchase my own health insurance, but until then this is MY problem and not my neighbors and certainly not the government. I've read a lot about the system in England and quite frankly that is WAY more frightening than not having insurance at all. Hitler was a socialist, I am not.

So you would rather pay 100s of dollars a month to insurance to cover your heath care than pay half(or less) of that to taxes to cover the actual cost. YOU would actaully like to give your money away to a middle man who is raping you of your money???? Sounds brilliant

I can't fathom why so many Americans think insurance companies are a good idea??? You have bought into the bullshit media job these money grabbers have been sending you for years. Quit being so gullible.

And you are socialist, you just don't know it.

I don't really think insurance companies are a good idea. In fact, I would prefer if basic medical care was provided on a cash-for-service basis, and everyone just had a catastrophic insurance policy. It would keep costs under control. Government fucks up everything they touch. I used to work for the IRS so I have been on that side of things. The IRS seized a very successful whore house in Nevada because the owners did not pay their taxes. Do you know what happened? They had to shut it down because it started losing money. Yes, that's right, the GOVERNMENT COULDN'T SELL PUSSY AND WHISKEY IN NEVADA!!!! Good luck when they run your health care!

phillypjhead

"Dearie me...... Of course your neighbour pays taxes and so will you when you are a productive member of society (or already have paid taxes if you worked). And yes... taxes go in a pot and elected government do as they see fit. Wake up to reality."

This country was founded on the ideals of limited government, low taxes, and self-reliance. There is nothing wrong with a desire to return to those principles. I understand that these concepts are not familiar to some because the schools do a poor job, but it is what I believe in.

keeponrockin

porchmonkey77 wrote:

brandon10 wrote:

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Why? Because I would never expect my neighbors to pay for my health care. It's not their responsibility. When I find a job, I will purchase my own health insurance, but until then this is MY problem and not my neighbors and certainly not the government. I've read a lot about the system in England and quite frankly that is WAY more frightening than not having insurance at all. Hitler was a socialist, I am not.

So you would rather pay 100s of dollars a month to insurance to cover your heath care than pay half(or less) of that to taxes to cover the actual cost. YOU would actaully like to give your money away to a middle man who is raping you of your money???? Sounds brilliant

I can't fathom why so many Americans think insurance companies are a good idea??? You have bought into the bullshit media job these money grabbers have been sending you for years. Quit being so gullible.

And you are socialist, you just don't know it.

I don't really think insurance companies are a good idea. In fact, I would prefer if basic medical care was provided on a cash-for-service basis, and everyone just had a catastrophic insurance policy. It would keep costs under control. Government fucks up everything they touch. I used to work for the IRS so I have been on that side of things. The IRS seized a very successful whore house in Nevada because the owners did not pay their taxes. Do you know what happened? They had to shut it down because it started losing money. Yes, that's right, the GOVERNMENT COULDN'T SELL PUSSY AND WHISKEY IN NEVADA!!!! Good luck when they run your health care!

Maybe if the brothel followed the rules there wouldn't be this problem, now would there.

OnTheEdge

The government has been so responsible and trustworthy over the years i'd love to hand my health care over to them. Does anybody see how fucking stupid that sounds?

_

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Why? Because I would never expect my neighbors to pay for my health care. It's not their responsibility. When I find a job, I will purchase my own health insurance, but until then this is MY problem and not my neighbors and certainly not the government. I've read a lot about the system in England and quite frankly that is WAY more frightening than not having insurance at all. Hitler was a socialist, I am not.

But if anything happens to you, who do you think will be paying for your health care? Your neighbors, that's who. And if you get the flu or some other communicable illness because you don't have medical coverage for vaccinations, etc., it doesn't just hurt you, it hurts your neighbors as well.

_

I know this has been said a billion times already, but I'll say it again since it seems to have been forgotten in this thread: Universal healthcare does not mean the government would be providing your healthcare. It only means they would be paying for it.

redrock

porchmonkey77 wrote:

This country was founded on the ideals of limited government, low taxes, and self-reliance. There is nothing wrong with a desire to return to those principles. I understand that these concepts are not familiar to some because the schools do a poor job, but it is what I believe in.

But these concepts will be understood by your kids as you will be paying for them to go to private schools as you do not want the neighbour to pay for your kids' education should they be going to state schools (state and local taxes but *gasp* federal mandate). After all, it would be your neighbour's tax money paying for these state schools. Is that socialism, like Hitler too?

Sorry.... disgressing. Back to health care.

keeponrockin

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Hitler was a socialist, I am not.

Wasn't Hitler a fascist?

keeponrockin

keeponrockin wrote:

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Hitler was a socialist, I am not.

Wasn't Hitler a fascist?

Bump.

Godfather.

ha ha ha Hitler was a tweaker with a sick and twisted mind,he musta had a great deal of charisma
and a knack for lieing with out blinking and in the end a STD stole his last rational thought....
if he ever had one, his death was a end to a time of great suffering for him self and hundred's of thousand's
people who fell victim to his rise to power and selfish greed.



Godfather.

keeponrockin

Godfather. wrote:

ha ha ha Hitler was a tweaker with a sick and twisted mind,he musta had a great deal of charisma
and a knack for lieing with out blinking and in the end a STD stole his last rational thought....
if he ever had one, his death was a end to a time of great suffering for him self and hundred's of thousand's
people who fell victim to his rise to power and selfish greed.



Godfather.

I know... I just find it funny that people call him a socialists... Are the Chinese Republicans because it's the 'People's Republic of China'? Didn't think so...

VINNY GOOMBA

keeponrockin wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Hitler was a socialist, I am not.

Wasn't Hitler a fascist?

Bump.

NAZI Party = National Socialist German Workers' Party

VINNY GOOMBA

scb wrote:

I know this has been said a billion times already, but I'll say it again since it seems to have been forgotten in this thread: Universal healthcare does not mean the government would be providing your healthcare. It only means they would be paying for it.

Right, and this is a major part of the concern. Who is to say that the government is going to be timely with its payments? Ask car dealers who participated in Cash for Clunkers about this. Ask me about my first time homebuyer credit, that I applied for through an amended tax return. It took 3 months for the IRS to even acknowledge that they received it, and 2 months later, they tried to tell me that I was inelligible, since I already owned a house-- this house that they claimed I own belongs to my parents, my dad and I having identical names (although our middle names are different), and was built when I was 1 month old. As much as I hate having a social security number, shouldn't that make these things a lot easier to figure out? I mean, it's not like this unique ID number isn't plastered all over his back tax returns and mine?

Fortunately, this credit was only a potential bonus to buying a house, but not the reason for doing so-- and that's a big part of the problem. Just because the money is supposed to be there, it does not mean it will actually be there. It encourages people to make some hasty decisions.

If doctors, nurses, and hospitals don't get paid... Then what happens?

Basically, OUR government is only going to act like an insurance company when it comes to doling out money. They are going to hold of as long as possible due to either ineptness, or to use this same money for blowing stuff up overseas, or to spend on any other program other than health care-- see Social Security, and how those funds are being spent. I can't speak for Canada or any Euorpean countries, but I would imagine that things could work better in a place like Canada seeing as how they don't have a $1 trillion a year empire to maintain (which, I am totally against-- the empire).

Even if the whole Health Care plan is financed completely by inflation-- no new taxes, just running the printing press, this also destroys what little wealth the poor of this country have through devaluation of the dollar, and it will eventually destroy the nation in general.

As much as I would love to believe that the government could pull this off, I fear that they will only make the problem worse.

It's hard to look forward on this issue without looking back-- once upon a time, hospitals and doctor's offices ran by themselves without aid from the government. With the aid, came a loss of control in how they all operated. "For every tool they lend us, a loss of independence." The poor used to receive free, or at least cheaper care at charity hospitals. What happened? It pretty much became illegal to care for these people for free, mountains of paperwork was added to the process, and a simple solution became all the more complex.

The goal should be to reduce the cost of healthcare in general-- as this should be what is happening. As technology improves costs decline as the technology becomes more available-- but there's something clearly in the way and keeping this from being the case: insurance companies. Their very existence breeds the frivolous lawsuit. Juries have no problem ruling for million dollar lawsuits in cases where maybe $10,000 should be awarded-- they think they're sticking it to THE MAN. They're not. They're sticking it to themselves, and the rest of us-- hence the higher premiums, and the attempts for these companies to worm their way out of providing certain forms of care. Selling risk should be permitted, and that's what these companies do-- and they should be bound to the terms of their contracts. However, they also shouldn't have to pay out anymore than the just compensation for whatever the lawsuit is, either. Tort reform is definitely needed.

Mandatory insurance for anything should also be legislated OUT of everyone's lives-- it should be optional. The reason these companies command so much power is that they had influence enough to require us to purchase insurance for everything.

All medical expenses should be 100% tax deductible (assuming the Income Tax never gets abolished).

Health Care should be available by means of paying as you go. Having personal savings accounts for emergencies would be a good idea-- even insurance for catastrophies ONLY. If people trust the government enough and decide on a personal level that they want Uncle Sam to watch their Health Savings Account or government-offered insurance plan, that should be their choice.

I personally believe that having the government pay all of our bills would be a horrible idea-- I believe that the checks will flow every which way except for the right way, and I believe the potential for exploitation of that system will be somewhere in between our welfare systems, and our military industrial complex.

keeponrockin

Vinny, I know the name had socialist in it, but most logical people would define their actions as anything but...

Kel Varnsen

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Why? Because I would never expect my neighbors to pay for my health care. It's not their responsibility. When I find a job, I will purchase my own health insurance, but until then this is MY problem and not my neighbors and certainly not the government. I've read a lot about the system in England and quite frankly that is WAY more frightening than not having insurance at all. Hitler was a socialist, I am not.

What if you were in an accident and needed emergency brain surgery to save your life? You could potentially be given a bill that you could never pay off in your life? Then who do you think would be stuck with the remainder of the bill after you died?

Kel Varnsen

Pepe Silvia wrote:

talking to my roommate today, her employer doesn't offer it so she tried to get it from blue cross & blue shield....she said the only she checked yes to was that she has an inhaler, she has had asthma since she was a kid. because of this preexisting condition the lowest monthly premium they will offer her is $427!!

$427 is insane. I live in Canada, and I have a pretty decent job and my entire monthly income tax deduction is only a couple hundred more than that. And if I want to see a doctor I can go anytime I want to any practising doctor who is accepting patients, or any walk in clinic. There is no deductible, no co-pays and no worring if the doctor who is available is one who is in my network. Plus of course that extra couple of hundred bucks covers everything else you would expect a government to provide.

OnTheEdge

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

talking to my roommate today, her employer doesn't offer it so she tried to get it from blue cross & blue shield....she said the only she checked yes to was that she has an inhaler, she has had asthma since she was a kid. because of this preexisting condition the lowest monthly premium they will offer her is $427!!

$427 is insane. I live in Canada, and I have a pretty decent job and my entire monthly income tax deduction is only a couple hundred more than that. And if I want to see a doctor I can go anytime I want to any practising doctor who is accepting patients, or any walk in clinic. There is no deductible, no co-pays and no worring if the doctor who is available is one who is in my network. Plus of course that extra couple of hundred bucks covers everything else you would expect a government to provide.

Not doubting you, just wondering, if you needed to see a specialists or have surgery for something how long would you have to wait?

Cosmo

mb262200 wrote:

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Pepe Silvia wrote:

talking to my roommate today, her employer doesn't offer it so she tried to get it from blue cross & blue shield....she said the only she checked yes to was that she has an inhaler, she has had asthma since she was a kid. because of this preexisting condition the lowest monthly premium they will offer her is $427!!

$427 is insane. I live in Canada, and I have a pretty decent job and my entire monthly income tax deduction is only a couple hundred more than that. And if I want to see a doctor I can go anytime I want to any practising doctor who is accepting patients, or any walk in clinic. There is no deductible, no co-pays and no worring if the doctor who is available is one who is in my network. Plus of course that extra couple of hundred bucks covers everything else you would expect a government to provide.

Not doubting you, just wondering, if you needed to see a specialists or have surgery for something how long would you have to wait?

...
It depends on the serverity of your surgery.
If you have a painful knee condition, for example, it can be treated with pain pills, physical therapy, etc... you'll have to wait until an appointment opens because it is less critical than someone that requires heart bypass surgery.
So... i guess you could always hope you get the worst, life threatening health condition that requires surgery so you can be the first to be scheduled.