I haven't diverted the subject at all. You think you can judge and criticize China as an American without applying the same standards to yourself?
Do you really need me to repost everything you've previously wrote in trying to change the subject to the U.S.? Come on now. The subject of this thread is CHINA, not the U.S.
Have you ever heard the phrase 'Like the pot calling the kettle black'?
Think about it.
What is your problem? You can't seem to debate the topic without trying to spin it.
Ok, this is probably the corniest thing I've read on any forum. Why do people type this stuff?
No personal offense, I've seen it a bunch.
thats the first time i've done it. there are no emoticons to express the level of frustration and awe i was feeling as i logged out...i've seen you do plenty of "corney" things on here, i just never called you on it...next time i just may...
International Show of Peace Concert in Beijing Set for April 17, 2010
By Jimmy Boyd
Will it Finally Take Place After Years of Cancellations?
Rick Garson's pet project, an international "Show of Peace" to coincide with the United Nation's International Day of Peace, may finally take place due to its new venue of Beijing, China. It is kind of sad to read about how this global initiative to support and foster peace has been stopped in its tracks for political reasons time and time again. Rick Garson tells his story on the history of his Show of Peace. Hopefully, the show of peace will finally take place. According to the official page above, there will be a Global Harmony concert on April 17, 2010, and there will be an additional Show of Peace concert on September 21st. The venue is the Bird's Nest, made famous by the Beijing Olympics. For the reasons stated below, I believe that the show will finally take place.
For starters, one might not think of China as the ideal place to hold a show to commemorate a day of peace. However, looking at the history of this show and cancellations made by Europeans, it is almost fitting that Garson had to go to a country that normally stays out of violent disputes around the world. Think about it. I am American and proud of it, but Americans constantly criticize China for its failure to vote for military and other action in the UN.
While I also believe that China turns its head at times when it should be more proactive (and I hate that they are so restrictive with what we consider basic human rights), it is the kind of place that will not cancel a potentially monumental event such as the International Show of Peace for reasons having nothing to do with the concert, itself. The concert that was to be held in Geneva, Switzerland, in 2006, was cancelled because of the conflict between Israel and the Hezbollahs. Now, I don't see a good reason to cancel a concert for peace during a time of war. Wouldn't that be the ideal time to raise awareness for peace?
After attempting to move the concert in 2006 to Rome, it was then cancelled because of death threats to the Pope for those controversial remarks he made about Islam. While I sympathize with that situation and the heightened security that would be necessary in such an environment, this seems like just bending over to terrorists.
I can tell you one thing. China would not cancel a concert because of armed conflict or death threats. That sends a message to the terrorists, and that message is that they can disrupt our way of life. Therefore, I don't see any political reason why China would cancel the concert this time around.
Second, China is eager to continue trying to improve its image and market itself to the world after the exposure it got from the Beijing Olympics. Those who saw just the Opening Ceremonies witnessed the huge priority that China placed on using the Olympics to improve international relations and economic expansion around the world. This International Show of Peace is shaping up to be a global event and will be seen on televisions all around the world. This is more prime exposure for China and Beijing.
Now, do I think that such a concert will actually result in peace anywhere in the world? I have my doubts about that, and I think most of the people who tune in will do so to watch the music acts perform. But this is an "it can't hurt" situation. Regardless of the effect that it has on the stability (or lack thereof) of world affairs, I can't see how it can hurt.
Speaking of music acts, the official Twitter page of the Show of Peace has revealed some of the acts scheduled to perform: Daughtry, Christina Aguilera, Franz Ferdinand, Duffy, Mariah Carey, Katy Perry, Ciara, Depeche Mode, Black Eyed Peas, Britney Spears, Nickelback, Maroon 5, Prince, Aerosmith, Lady Gaga, Usher, Ne-yo, Justin Timberlake, Rob Thomas, DJ Tiesto, Wyclef, and Mary J. Blige.
Here are some others who are supposedly scheduled to attend: Beyonce, Jay-Z, Coldplay, Diddy, Backstreet Boys, Jonas Brothers, Jennifer Lopez, Green Day, and Pearl Jam.
So at least we likely have an entertaining concert to look forward to, and any positive effects from the Global Harmony concert and Show of Peace concert will be the icing on the cake. This may be a small step in the quest for peace on earth, but getting started is half the battle.
International Show of Peace Concert in Beijing Set for April 17, 2010
By Jimmy Boyd
Will it Finally Take Place After Years of Cancellations?
SNIP
So at least we likely have an entertaining concert to look forward to, and any positive effects from the Global Harmony concert and Show of Peace concert will be the icing on the cake. This may be a small step in the quest for peace on earth, but getting started is half the battle.
Hmmm ... Not a bad piece. I agree that for all of their government's faults, at least you can count on the Chinese government to avoid being bullied by terrorists. And sure, this event is not going to hurt the case for world peace, really ... So long as people keep their critical thinking caps on and remain aware that China is a complex issue. This doesn't absolve them of some very real problems, and neither did the Olympics.
International Show of Peace Concert in Beijing Set for April 17, 2010
By Jimmy Boyd
Will it Finally Take Place After Years of Cancellations?
SNIP
So at least we likely have an entertaining concert to look forward to, and any positive effects from the Global Harmony concert and Show of Peace concert will be the icing on the cake. This may be a small step in the quest for peace on earth, but getting started is half the battle.
Hmmm ... Not a bad piece. I agree that for all of their government's faults, at least you can count on the Chinese government to avoid being bullied by terrorists. Lately, some in Europe seem hell bent on proving that they can be pushed around by thugs with prayer beads. And sure, this event is not going to hurt the case for world peace, really ... So long as people keep their critical thinking caps on and remain aware that China is a complex issue. This doesn't absolve them of some very real problems, and neither did the Olympics.
China has denounced US criticism of its internet controls, saying it could harm ties between the two countries.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called on Thursday for China to lift restrictions on the internet.
Mrs Clinton also urged Beijing to investigate Google's complaints that cyber attacks had originated in China.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said the US should "respect the facts" and stop making "groundless accusations against China".
"The US has criticised China's policies to administer the internet, and insinuated that China restricts internet freedom," he said in a statement posted on the foreign ministry website.
"This runs contrary to the facts and is harmful to China-US relations."
An article on the Communist Party's Global Times English language news website called Mrs Clinton's criticisms "information imperialism".
In a wide-ranging speech in Washington, Mrs Clinton said the internet had been a "source of tremendous progress" in China but that any country which restricted free access to information risked "walling themselves off from the progress of the next century".
She said that the US intended to address issues of internet freedom within its relationship with Beijing.
She also called for tough action against people and states that carried out cyber attacks.
Google said on 12 January that hackers had tried to infiltrate its software coding and the e-mail accounts of Chinese human rights activists, in a "highly sophisticated" attack that originated from China.
Mrs Clinton called on Chinese authorities to investigate the Google complaint of cyber attacks and to make the results available.
Values 'imposed'
She also urged companies operating in China, and elsewhere, to take a "principled stand" against censorship.
"The private sector has a shared responsibility to safeguard free expression... this needs to be part of our national brand."
Chinese officials have repeatedly said that Google and other foreign internet companies were welcome to operate within China as long as they obeyed the country's laws and traditions.
When California-based Google launched google.cn in 2006, it agreed to censor some search results - such as the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests, Tibetan independence or Falun Gong - as required by the Chinese government.
In her speech, Mrs Clinton also singled out countries such as Tunisia, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Uzbekistan as having boosted censorship or harassed bloggers.
China's state-controlled media reacted angrily to the speech.
The Global Times said: "The US campaign for uncensored and free flow of information on an unrestricted internet is a disguised attempt to impose its values on other cultures in the name of democracy."
Imbalances in the "global information order" favoured the West and so countries like China, which were disadvantaged in this order, needed to take steps "to protect their national interest", the editorial said.
"China's real stake in the 'free flow of information' is evident in its refusal to be victimised by information imperialism."
This may look like Clinton is over-stepping her bounds in requesting China value the idea of non-censorship when it comes to Google and the internet. And China is defending themselves. But that's basically what you get under a dictatorship. You can have your say...up until they say when. So exactly how does this feed into a Peace awareness global concert?? That the concert is sanctioned, and the performers can only say what they're allowed to.
What is your problem? You can't seem to debate the topic without trying to spin it.
I'm not spinning anything. I'm putting the topic in perspective. And you don't make the rules around here, so stop telling me what I can or can't say. You keep harping on about China while attempting to sidestep the crimes of your own government. So what is your problem?
Why are you incapable of applying the same standards to your own country that you are so desperate to apply to China?
And China is defending themselves. But that's basically what you get under a dictatorship.
And you think America is a true Democracy? What a joke. Your government lies to you no more or no less than the Chinese government lies to it's people. Get off your high horse.
And you think America is a true Democracy? What a joke. Your government lies to you no more or no less than the Chinese government lies to it's people. Get off your high horse.
Do you honesty think that its reasonable to equate the political systems of the US and China in any real way? I mean, sure ... You could point to examples of corruption in both cases. But do you think that the massive censorship that prevails in China truly compares with what politicians in the US do? Whatever you wish to say about democracy in the U.S., at least there's a pretense. China is unabashedly totalitarian. Do opponents of the current US government get jailed or executed, sometimes en masse? There are some pretty fundamental differences, and I'm not sure pointing these out means that someone is up on their high horse.
And you think America is a true Democracy? What a joke. Your government lies to you no more or no less than the Chinese government lies to it's people. Get off your high horse.
Do you honesty think that its reasonable to equate the political systems of the US and China in any real way? I mean, sure ... You could point to examples of corruption in both cases. But do you think that the massive censorship that prevails in China truly compares with what politicians in the US do? Whatever you wish to say about democracy in the U.S., at least there's a pretense. China is unabashedly totalitarian. Do opponents of the current US government get jailed or executed, sometimes en masse? There are some pretty fundamental differences, and I'm not sure pointing these out means that someone is up on their high horse.
There are some pretty fundamental differences, but those are things such as numbers of executions, and political corruption and unaccountability. But there's more to freedom than just political freedoms. And on the subject of censorship by the media and a concerted twisting, or muddying, of the facts, then the U.S and China really aren't that different. The methods each country uses are clearly different, but the outcomes are exactly the same: hence why the population of the U.S were lied into supporting a bullshit war in Iraq in 2003, to give just one example.
You ever read 'Necessary Illusions - Thought control in a democratic society' or 'Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media' by Noam Chomsky? You should check them out sometime.
What is your problem? You can't seem to debate the topic without trying to spin it.
I'm not spinning anything. I'm putting the topic in perspective. And you don't make the rules around here, so stop telling me what I can or can't say. You keep harping on about China while attempting to sidestep the crimes of your own government. So what is your problem?
Why are you incapable of applying the same standards to your own country that you are so desperate to apply to China?
I call Bullshit. You refuse to discuss the topic (China) without dragging the U.S. into it, when the U.S. has nothing to do with the topic. Not everyone is going to fall for this maneuver, and then you accuse me of being on a high horse when I call you on it. Whatever, you simply won't (or can't) discuss China. I have said plenty about the U.S. in other threads that actually have to do with the U.S.
You ever read 'Necessary Illusions - Thought control in a democratic society' or 'Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media' by Noam Chomsky? You should check them out sometime.
Funny you should mention that, I recently grabbed a copy but haven't had the chance to delve in yet.
I call Bullshit. You refuse to discuss the topic (China) without dragging the U.S. into it, when the U.S. has nothing to do with the topic. Not everyone is going to fall for this maneuver, and then you accuse me of being on a high horse when I call you on it. Whatever, you simply won't (or can't) discuss China. I have said plenty about the U.S. in other threads that actually have to do with the U.S.
Your country is currently engaged in two wars of occupation abroad and yet you feel you have a right to criticize China for hosting the Earth Day Concert? The U.S is also one of the worlds biggest polluters and yet you want to criticize China for hosting the Earth Day Concert? Sorry, but I'm not buying it. You have nothing to complain about.
I call Bullshit. You refuse to discuss the topic (China) without dragging the U.S. into it, when the U.S. has nothing to do with the topic. Not everyone is going to fall for this maneuver, and then you accuse me of being on a high horse when I call you on it. Whatever, you simply won't (or can't) discuss China. I have said plenty about the U.S. in other threads that actually have to do with the U.S.
Your country is currently engaged in two wars of occupation abroad and yet you feel you have a right to criticize China for hosting the Earth Day Concert? The U.S is also one of the worlds biggest polluters and yet you want to criticize China for hosting the Earth Day Concert? Sorry, but I'm not buying it. You have nothing to complain about.
China's gov't has got nothing to defend there, Byrnzie. I'm pretty disappointed that you couldn't debate this issue objectively. Oh, and China is right up there in the top two, perhaps even beats out the U.S. for pollution. But you already knew that... :roll:
Comments
What is your problem? You can't seem to debate the topic without trying to spin it.
Go ahead, please do so.
cbc shakes head and exits conversation in awe...
I always thought that China's gift to the world was toys full of lead paint ...
And Cadmium.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
International Show of Peace Concert in Beijing Set for April 17, 2010
By Jimmy Boyd
Will it Finally Take Place After Years of Cancellations?
Rick Garson's pet project, an international "Show of Peace" to coincide with the United Nation's International Day of Peace, may finally take place due to its new venue of Beijing, China. It is kind of sad to read about how this global initiative to support and foster peace has been stopped in its tracks for political reasons time and time again. Rick Garson tells his story on the history of his Show of Peace. Hopefully, the show of peace will finally take place. According to the official page above, there will be a Global Harmony concert on April 17, 2010, and there will be an additional Show of Peace concert on September 21st. The venue is the Bird's Nest, made famous by the Beijing Olympics. For the reasons stated below, I believe that the show will finally take place.
For starters, one might not think of China as the ideal place to hold a show to commemorate a day of peace. However, looking at the history of this show and cancellations made by Europeans, it is almost fitting that Garson had to go to a country that normally stays out of violent disputes around the world. Think about it. I am American and proud of it, but Americans constantly criticize China for its failure to vote for military and other action in the UN.
While I also believe that China turns its head at times when it should be more proactive (and I hate that they are so restrictive with what we consider basic human rights), it is the kind of place that will not cancel a potentially monumental event such as the International Show of Peace for reasons having nothing to do with the concert, itself. The concert that was to be held in Geneva, Switzerland, in 2006, was cancelled because of the conflict between Israel and the Hezbollahs. Now, I don't see a good reason to cancel a concert for peace during a time of war. Wouldn't that be the ideal time to raise awareness for peace?
After attempting to move the concert in 2006 to Rome, it was then cancelled because of death threats to the Pope for those controversial remarks he made about Islam. While I sympathize with that situation and the heightened security that would be necessary in such an environment, this seems like just bending over to terrorists.
I can tell you one thing. China would not cancel a concert because of armed conflict or death threats. That sends a message to the terrorists, and that message is that they can disrupt our way of life. Therefore, I don't see any political reason why China would cancel the concert this time around.
Second, China is eager to continue trying to improve its image and market itself to the world after the exposure it got from the Beijing Olympics. Those who saw just the Opening Ceremonies witnessed the huge priority that China placed on using the Olympics to improve international relations and economic expansion around the world. This International Show of Peace is shaping up to be a global event and will be seen on televisions all around the world. This is more prime exposure for China and Beijing.
Now, do I think that such a concert will actually result in peace anywhere in the world? I have my doubts about that, and I think most of the people who tune in will do so to watch the music acts perform. But this is an "it can't hurt" situation. Regardless of the effect that it has on the stability (or lack thereof) of world affairs, I can't see how it can hurt.
Speaking of music acts, the official Twitter page of the Show of Peace has revealed some of the acts scheduled to perform: Daughtry, Christina Aguilera, Franz Ferdinand, Duffy, Mariah Carey, Katy Perry, Ciara, Depeche Mode, Black Eyed Peas, Britney Spears, Nickelback, Maroon 5, Prince, Aerosmith, Lady Gaga, Usher, Ne-yo, Justin Timberlake, Rob Thomas, DJ Tiesto, Wyclef, and Mary J. Blige.
Here are some others who are supposedly scheduled to attend: Beyonce, Jay-Z, Coldplay, Diddy, Backstreet Boys, Jonas Brothers, Jennifer Lopez, Green Day, and Pearl Jam.
So at least we likely have an entertaining concert to look forward to, and any positive effects from the Global Harmony concert and Show of Peace concert will be the icing on the cake. This may be a small step in the quest for peace on earth, but getting started is half the battle.
Hmmm ... Not a bad piece. I agree that for all of their government's faults, at least you can count on the Chinese government to avoid being bullied by terrorists. And sure, this event is not going to hurt the case for world peace, really ... So long as people keep their critical thinking caps on and remain aware that China is a complex issue. This doesn't absolve them of some very real problems, and neither did the Olympics.
This doesn't sound very peaceful...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8474011.stm
This may look like Clinton is over-stepping her bounds in requesting China value the idea of non-censorship when it comes to Google and the internet. And China is defending themselves. But that's basically what you get under a dictatorship. You can have your say...up until they say when. So exactly how does this feed into a Peace awareness global concert?? That the concert is sanctioned, and the performers can only say what they're allowed to.
Neither does this:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editor ... stitution/
On wiretapping, Bush isn't listening to the Constitution
Or this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL3048857920080130
Iraq conflict has killed a million Iraqis: survey
I'm not spinning anything. I'm putting the topic in perspective. And you don't make the rules around here, so stop telling me what I can or can't say. You keep harping on about China while attempting to sidestep the crimes of your own government. So what is your problem?
Why are you incapable of applying the same standards to your own country that you are so desperate to apply to China?
And you think America is a true Democracy? What a joke. Your government lies to you no more or no less than the Chinese government lies to it's people. Get off your high horse.
Do you honesty think that its reasonable to equate the political systems of the US and China in any real way? I mean, sure ... You could point to examples of corruption in both cases. But do you think that the massive censorship that prevails in China truly compares with what politicians in the US do? Whatever you wish to say about democracy in the U.S., at least there's a pretense. China is unabashedly totalitarian. Do opponents of the current US government get jailed or executed, sometimes en masse? There are some pretty fundamental differences, and I'm not sure pointing these out means that someone is up on their high horse.
There are some pretty fundamental differences, but those are things such as numbers of executions, and political corruption and unaccountability. But there's more to freedom than just political freedoms. And on the subject of censorship by the media and a concerted twisting, or muddying, of the facts, then the U.S and China really aren't that different. The methods each country uses are clearly different, but the outcomes are exactly the same: hence why the population of the U.S were lied into supporting a bullshit war in Iraq in 2003, to give just one example.
You ever read 'Necessary Illusions - Thought control in a democratic society' or 'Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media' by Noam Chomsky? You should check them out sometime.
Funny you should mention that, I recently grabbed a copy but haven't had the chance to delve in yet.
Your country is currently engaged in two wars of occupation abroad and yet you feel you have a right to criticize China for hosting the Earth Day Concert? The U.S is also one of the worlds biggest polluters and yet you want to criticize China for hosting the Earth Day Concert? Sorry, but I'm not buying it. You have nothing to complain about.
China's gov't has got nothing to defend there, Byrnzie. I'm pretty disappointed that you couldn't debate this issue objectively. Oh, and China is right up there in the top two, perhaps even beats out the U.S. for pollution. But you already knew that... :roll: