*** -- PROCESSING Your Philadelphia 76ers -- ***

The Juggler

tempo_n_groove said:

The Juggler said:

tempo_n_groove said:

The Juggler said:

tempo_n_groove said:

The Juggler said:

Wobbie said:

The Juggler said:

Wobbie said:

“The Process” is officially a failure.

Lol...not quite, my friend. 

yeah, it is. you have one #1 left from your bazillion picks.

And he's a top 5 player in the game, who just put up one of the best season's in franchise history. They were a 1 seed who underachieved (because of Ben) but this was pretty much the only team since Dr J left (almost 40 years ago) who had a legit chance to win it all. The whole point of tanking a few years was to get that kind of player or players that would put them in that position. As currently constructed, they're still a top 2 or 3 seed in the East right now anyway. 

Plus he just signed an extension so....yeah it's far from over. 

Stop it.  Please stop trying to justify the process...

If they can win a chip I will give them partial credit.

I don't have to justify it. Nobody guaranteed a championship...the point was just to acquire star players to put them in position to win one. I don't see why that is so hard to understand really. lol

They tanked at the chance of acquiring a possible talent?

They could have just scouted better?

I know what you mean but everyone else under the sun sees it as a failure because it is.  Hell, with all the draft picks they had I could have got at least 1 right...

Joel Embiid is one of the best players on the planet, dude. 

Whether or not the gms and coaches drafted poorly after Hinkie left in 2015 is another story and it is unfortunate. But the 2 or 3 years they were really bad got them a few lottery tickets and they landed their superstar with one of them. That was literally the point. OKC's doing the same thing right now. 

I love Embiid and what he has become.  Love it. Top 10 for sure.

You don't think I'll give OKC shit too?

Since the one and done era I see 2 outright stars in the NBA now.  That's Davis and Kyrie.  You can make an argument for Wall and a few others.

That being said I think it is by far too difficult to draft a one and done player and tanking doesn't really do you any favors.  I mean Embiid wasn't a #1 pick and he's better than the 2 who were.

I enjoy the back and forth though.  Keep it comin'.

You usually need a superstar player or two to have a shot at a championship.
To get a star you need to either already have one that will attract another one via free agency. The Sixers didn't have that. 
You need to trade for them---the Sixers didn't have nearly enough to accomplish that.
Or you are bad enough to have a shot at drafting one at the top of the draft.

The Sixers only option, after approximately 30 years of mostly mediocre basketball, was to tank for a few years. It worked. They got their guy. They thought they got a second guy. Unfortunately Ben Simmons did not pan out the way we all hoped. But that is life. 

Like it or not, what Hinkie did worked. The problems largely occurred after the NBA foisted the Collangelo's upon us. Even so, this past season was the only Sixers team since the 80's to have a legit shot at a title (that Iverson team was fun but had no shot of beating Shaq and Kobe). 

The Juggler

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The franchise was in a decades-long stint of mediocrity, briefly becoming a good, but not great, team at Iverson's peak. They are much closer now to winning a championship than at any time since the mid-80s. This franchise is not a superstar magnet like the Lakers so The Process was the best way to give them a chance to bring a parade to the city. Having a super-talented and super immature "superstar" that choked in such a massive manner in the playoffs was a rough way to derail last season, but it is what it is.

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Jearlpam0925

I don't know why anybody entertains these terrible "The Process didn't work" takes. What you do is stare, blink three times, ignore, move on. It's so tired at this point.

Circling back to what is relevant - seriously, gonna suck losing Maxey more than Ben at this point because a) ya know Ben is gone at this point, he's a sunk cost; b) Maxey's not even of fucking legal drinking age. God. Damnit.

Johnny Abruzzo

Maybe just keep Maxey and see what happens? You look around and see ex-Sixers dominating the NBA Finals like every year. Doesn't solve what to do with BS but IDK...

The Juggler

The same guy who broke the story about Paul wanting Maxey included in a Ben deal tweeted earlier that Maxey wants to stay in Philly. I think we can Mccollum without having to include Maxey. 

I think Maxey has the potential to make a big leap next year with more playing time. Also think Mccollum would thrive on this team even more than he did in Portland...

Cliffy6745

As with everything else in the world, it's gray.  Was it the right thing to do? Yeah. Did it work as planned? Absolutely fucking not. Not sure how anyone could argue with that.  To me the plan was correct, the execution didn't pan out, but it isn't completely failed

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 said:

As with everything else in the world, it's gray.  Was it the right thing to do? Yeah. Did it work as planned? Absolutely fucking not. Not sure how anyone could argue with that.  To me the plan was correct, the execution didn't pan out, but it isn't completely failed

Would love to know how differently things would've gone if we didn't have the Collangelo's foisted upon us...

Jearlpam0925

Ughhhhh and here we go, I can't help myself now.

The plan is all that mattered. If someone wants to argue mismanagement, bad ownership? Absolutely. Different conversation completely.

But this all comes down to how people interpret shit, which is the problem, and what "The Process" is/was. "The Process", to me, is the approach Sam Hinkie put in place for the draft to build a roster around a franchise superstar(s) because they had none and no other plan on the horizon other than switching shitty coaches and GMs every 3-4 years. That Process as I interpret it was a success, absolutely no question.

Bryan Colangelo? Was not part of The Process. Fucking Elton Brand being GM? Not at all. Josh Harris and Ownership overstepping, while every other owner in the league went and leaned on Silver to fuck The Process up? Not part of it either.

At the end of the day you have a better chance of getting those franchise cornerstones at the top of the draft. You buy as many lottery tickets as you can to increase those chances. What's so hard to comprehend with this? And using hindsight to justify any of this will absolutely always be nonsense to me.

Cliffy6745

I get it. Everyone got it. The Cavs got it with Lebron. Minnesota (edit: Cavs..what do I know, point is plenty of teams have tanked) got it with Wiggins.  Hinke didn't invent tanking, though he may have perfected it.

I don't think you can separate the process from the outcome, as you can't in any other walk of life.  If I fail at my job, I can't tell my boss "well, I approached the project the right way, even if the client despises it".  Sure I did the right thing, but it wasn't a success.

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 said:

I get it. Everyone got it. The Cavs got it with Lebron. Minnesota got it with Wiggins.  Hinke didn't invent tanking, though he may have perfected it.

I don't think you can separate the process from the outcome, as you can't in any other walk of life.  If I fail at my job, I can't tell my boss "well, I approached the project the right way, even if the client despises it".  Sure I did the right thing, but it wasn't a success.

The outcome was to put you in a position to win a championship.  Like you said, everything in life is gray as is this--especially since the guy who put the wheels in motion was let go 6 fucking year ago lol.

But they are in a position to win a championship now (or at least were this past season) while they were not prior to Hinkie (really haven't been since we were all in short pants). That's really the point of the whole thing.

Jearlpam0925

Cliffy6745 said:

I get it. Everyone got it. The Cavs got it with Lebron. Minnesota got it with Wiggins.  Hinke didn't invent tanking, though he may have perfected it.

I don't think you can separate the process from the outcome, as you can't in any other walk of life.  If I fail at my job, I can't tell my boss "well, I approached the project the right way, even if the client despises it".  Sure I did the right thing, but it wasn't a success.

Oh here we go, I mean ya can't argue the answer is gray while also arguing for black and white. Yet they(Hinkie) did succeed. They just came off a season with the best record in the East playing nearly .700 ball, and Hinkie never got to see it to this point in "The Process" because the rug was taken out from under him? And all the rest of us can do is pretend to think Hinkie would have just traded picks ad infinitum blah blah blah.

Cliffy6745

I am not arguing black and white.  They drafted Noel, Saric, Fultz, Okafor, the Syracuse kid, and now Simmons.  I am sure there are others. Some of those were clearly not mistakes, some of them were, but all of them clearly didn't pan out as they had hoped.  Of course they were never going to hit on all of them, but it would be difficult to tank for that long, have all of those picks and if they win a championships have literally 1 of the tanking picks on the team.

Yes, of course Hinke did a great job getting lottery picks, but we're looking at literally 1 of them potentially contributing to a championship

Hell...I'll go complete opposite end of the spectrum.  Signing Gerrit Cole was absolutely the right move for the Yankees to make.  If they don't win a world series, was it a failure? Yeah, also of course.

Johnny Abruzzo

Honestly, with all the mistakes, misses and drama the fact that they still are in the hunt for a championship is even more validation for the idea of The Process.

Cliffy6745

Don't disagree with that at all.  The process was right, the execution didn't pan out...yet

Jearlpam0925

I will give you Fultz and Okafor. Noel and Saric were contributing pieces that turned into pieces that then turned into other pieces.

At the end of the day The Process produced your two franchise superstars (Ben and Joel). Unfortunately one of them is a superstar that's a complete mindfuck.

He definitely didn't just do a good job attaining lottery picks. It's not a surprise that once those superstars were on the court together that they made the playoffs and got better and better.

And I certainly wouldn't equate the business world to how the success of a sportzball team works, though a lot of people like to pretend they can. In the business world you give a client whatever they want immediately and dance to whatever tune they want till the day the checks stop. How the P&L works, and what a client wants, is the same as the operations of a sports organization. And certainly not how the sportzball side (the actual child's game being played) of it work.

Johnny Abruzzo

Businesses can achieve success without achieving the highly unlikely feat of being literally the best business out of 30 or so in their industry - they just need to make money is all. It's not the same at all.

Jearlpam0925

The idea that if a signing doesn't produce a championship is a failure is completely a fucking Yankees Fan Thing to say.

All you do is put yourself in the best possible situation to win a title consistently, year after year. To think a success is, and only is, what results in a title is ridiculous.

The Juggler

Agree with you guys, JP and Johnny.

Cliff lumping Saric in there is weird. He was a contributing member to a Finals team this year. I wish we still had him. And Johnny High Collar drafted Fultz, not Hinkie. 

Jearlpam0925

The Juggler said:

Lumping Saric in there is weird. He was a contributing member to a Finals team this year. I wish we still had him. And Johnny High Collar drafted Fultz, not Hinkie. 

Part of the point, too - so much has been convoluted with more garbage post-Hinkie that the overall theme/messaging has been bastardized.

I've had a shit ton of coffee today (hence the posts!), so I'll poke a bear - it's funny that someone here likes to laugh at the process because it didn't produce a title (not you, Cliff!) while also slurping Andy Reid (definitely not you, Cliff!) for consistently being successful and not winning a title. And further to the point you can argue Andy also teared down before building up, and definitely the way Joe Banner and Howie now value players (football is also wayyyy easier to rebuild of course). If anything you'd think this person would have the mental capacity to align support for both of these things, or at least connect the dots.

Cliffy6745

The Juggler said:

Agree with you guys, JP and Johnny.

Cliff lumping Saric in there is weird. He was a contributing member to a Finals team this year. I wish we still had him. And Johnny High Collar drafted Fultz, not Hinkie. 

Fair point by those guys, but they haven't even gotten to the conference finals.  

Yeah, I get that, but point was more he's not here, even though he's contributing.  That got them Butler, which great, but also clearly didn't work since he's a shit head.

Not really talking about Hinke vs. Colangelo, though I get that aspect. Just where they started and where they are.

I don't really think I am disagreeing with you guys all that much.  I just don't get the pounding the chest the process was a roaring success that people still do, when the team hasn't even sniffed the finals.