Happy Veterans day or something

Break The Sky

marinebionerd wrote:

Thank you to FiveB247x and Big Drop for sparking an intelligent discussion. I have really enjoyed reading your exchange. That's why I love this forum. No matter what any of our views are, we know we all have one awesome thing in common.

Hell yeah. Too bad FiveB247x's brother doesn't still go to SUNY Fredonia, I'd love to have a beer with him.

FiveB247x

Thanks! Just stated what I feel and think. Amazing how if a person does so in a reasonable, well thought out manner, people can understand even if they don't agree and even sometimes learn a little something bout your own thoughts and beliefs. Too bad we live in such a dim-witted society we can't see that often eh?

marinebionerd wrote:

Thank you to FiveB247x and Big Drop for sparking an intelligent discussion. I have really enjoyed reading your exchange. That's why I love this forum. No matter what any of our views are, we know we all have one awesome thing in common.

I also feel like most "holidays" become warped over time. It's like an ongoing game of whisper down the lane...the end result ends up being very far from the original message.

When I flew up to Philly for the 10/30 show, I was waiting for my ride outside the airport and I saw a WWII Navy veteran waiting for someone in his car. My grandfather and father both served on carriers in the Navy, and I know how important it was to them, especially WWII for my grandfather. I looked at the gentleman, smiled, and just said thank you. He smiled back and looked at me like nobody had said that to him in a long time. It was a small 5 second gesture that actually meant something to both of us. I didn't have to wait for a specific date to thank someone - it was just how I felt at the moment.

I'm not a warm-and-fuzzy kind of gal, but I'm a firm believer that positive energy does have the greatest effect. If and when the mood strikes, throw out something positive to somebody. It doesn't matter if it's a veteran or your local grocer, the unexpected gesture will be appreciated.

Cheers everyone 8-)

marinebionerd

I'll drink to that! ;-)

FiveB247x wrote:

Thanks! Just stated what I feel and think. Amazing how if a person does so in a reasonable, well thought out manner, people can understand even if they don't agree and even sometimes learn a little something bout your own thoughts and beliefs. Too bad we live in such a dim-witted society we can't see that often eh?

marinebionerd wrote:

Thank you to FiveB247x and Big Drop for sparking an intelligent discussion. I have really enjoyed reading your exchange. That's why I love this forum. No matter what any of our views are, we know we all have one awesome thing in common.

fife

just like valentines day should not be the only time you show people you love love, supporting veterans does just happen on one day. i personally think teh way you show respect for veterans is by doing what they did for you, fight for them. that means going against the powers that are they bosses if their bosses are not doing what is right fo rthem.

soulsinging

cincybearcat wrote:

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

yet we don't have nurse's day, police officer's day, or firefighter's day. what does that say about our country's values and priorities? does it not in the least make you wonder why our leaders are so gung ho on making sure we all revere the military above all of these other equally noble and critical professions? we have veteran's day, memorial day, and one more i can't recall at the moment... 2-3 holidays for military, and none for anyone else.

i'm not a military hater, but i think it's healthy to think about why we have multiple holidays for our military, rather than reflexively and mindlessly giving props. it feels kinda manipulative.

OffHeGoes29

soulsinging wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

yet we don't have nurse's day, police officer's day, or firefighter's day. what does that say about our country's values and priorities? does it not in the least make you wonder why our leaders are so gung ho on making sure we all revere the military above all of these other equally noble and critical professions? we have veteran's day, memorial day, and one more i can't recall at the moment... 2-3 holidays for military, and none for anyone else.

i'm not a military hater, but i think it's healthy to think about why we have multiple holidays for our military, rather than reflexively and mindlessly giving props. it feels kinda manipulative.

Its ok, Veterans don't give a shit if you support them or not.

cincybearcat

This is a reasonable manner?

""Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein."

Immediately assumming people are unthinking because there is a day where they are giving thanks to Veterans?

Seriously? And just like someone else said, you don't have to wait for the day...it's just there to help make sure that you do not forget. Of all the things to be upset about, I find this to be one of the weirdest.

Just because you don't care it's Veterans day doesn't mean it's stupid for others to care about it in their own way.

cincybearcat

soulsinging wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

yet we don't have nurse's day, police officer's day, or firefighter's day. what does that say about our country's values and priorities? does it not in the least make you wonder why our leaders are so gung ho on making sure we all revere the military above all of these other equally noble and critical professions? we have veteran's day, memorial day, and one more i can't recall at the moment... 2-3 holidays for military, and none for anyone else.

i'm not a military hater, but i think it's healthy to think about why we have multiple holidays for our military, rather than reflexively and mindlessly giving props. it feels kinda manipulative.

You're right, we should have a day for Firefighters and police officers that risk their lives just as the military. Doctors and nurses...not so much, though what they do is equally impressive, they aren't risking their lives. Lawyers...definitely not.

Wobbie

here's a warm and fuzzy for you....

I'm a fireman. We started an ex-marine on his rookie probation 8 months ago. 8 months of taking shit from guys who are (in some cases) half his age. Today (Veteran's Day) he got off probation. He trades his blue helmet for a yellow one. If nothing else, it's a good day for him!

soulsinging

cincybearcat wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

yet we don't have nurse's day, police officer's day, or firefighter's day. what does that say about our country's values and priorities? does it not in the least make you wonder why our leaders are so gung ho on making sure we all revere the military above all of these other equally noble and critical professions? we have veteran's day, memorial day, and one more i can't recall at the moment... 2-3 holidays for military, and none for anyone else.

i'm not a military hater, but i think it's healthy to think about why we have multiple holidays for our military, rather than reflexively and mindlessly giving props. it feels kinda manipulative.

You're right, we should have a day for Firefighters and police officers that risk their lives just as the military. Doctors and nurses...not so much, though what they do is equally impressive, they aren't risking their lives. Lawyers...definitely not.

no argument from me on the last one... you seem to forget i'm a self-loathing lawyer but that's all i'm saying. we should have those days, yet we don't. but we have multiple days for the military. i think that says something about our national priorities and i'm not sure it's a good thing. i'm not opposed to honoring and recognizing our servicemen, but they are one piece of the large puzzle that makes this country great and i can't help thinking that the disproportionate recognition they get reeks of political manipulation.

soulsinging

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

yet we don't have nurse's day, police officer's day, or firefighter's day. what does that say about our country's values and priorities? does it not in the least make you wonder why our leaders are so gung ho on making sure we all revere the military above all of these other equally noble and critical professions? we have veteran's day, memorial day, and one more i can't recall at the moment... 2-3 holidays for military, and none for anyone else.

i'm not a military hater, but i think it's healthy to think about why we have multiple holidays for our military, rather than reflexively and mindlessly giving props. it feels kinda manipulative.

Its ok, Veterans don't give a shit if you support them or not.

maybe i'm suffering from amnesia, but where did i say i don't support veterans? i think the lack of REAL support (not the token flag waving bullshit today is for, but the real services and benefits we don't provide them) for our servicemen is shameful. and waving a flag today does not make up for the total indifference and casual exploitation with which we treat them the other 364 days of the year.

FiveB247x

Actually it's funny how that quote can be received in different ways. You can think it means people are unthinking as sheep or that solidiers should be respected for merely following orders. Either way, no matter what type of society you live in, everyone "respects" their solidiers....whether good, bad or indifferent. Also, no one has honesty said why we should respect the military. And please save the whole "the protect our freedoms" bs for a baffoon.... militaries don't protect freedoms any more than the police stop crime. If anything, the system of law, logic, civil order and responsibility protect our freedoms. For example, it's no different from saying that there is nothing stopping me from going around shooting people. The police may attempt to stop that, but just because their police doesn't mean it would protect anyone, nor does their existence stop the occurence from happening. The only thing that actually stops it and keeps people protected is MY SELF knowledge that this is unexceptable action, against rule of law and logic and decency. Just as in this example, the police aren't responsible for stopping crime, the military is not responsible for protecting freedom. Both are mere arms of the state to protect the governments order and do as the state orders - no more no less.

cincybearcat wrote:

This is a reasonable manner?

""Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein."

Immediately assumming people are unthinking because there is a day where they are giving thanks to Veterans?

Seriously? And just like someone else said, you don't have to wait for the day...it's just there to help make sure that you do not forget. Of all the things to be upset about, I find this to be one of the weirdest.

Just because you don't care it's Veterans day doesn't mean it's stupid for others to care about it in their own way.

OffHeGoes29

FiveB247x wrote:

Actually it's funny how that quote can be received in different ways. You can think it means people are unthinking as sheep or that solidiers should be respected for merely following orders. Either way, no matter what type of society you live in, everyone "respects" their solidiers....whether good, bad or indifferent. Also, no one has honesty said why we should respect the military. And please save the whole "the protect our freedoms" bs for a baffoon.... militaries don't protect freedoms any more than the police stop crime. If anything, the system of law, logic, civil order and responsibility protect our freedoms. For example, it's no different from saying that there is nothing stopping me from going around shooting people. The police may attempt to stop that, but just because their police doesn't mean it would protect anyone, nor does their existence stop the occurence from happening. The only thing that actually stops it and keeps people protected is MY SELF knowledge that this is unexceptable action, against rule of law and logic and decency. Just as in this example, the police aren't responsible for stopping crime, the military is not responsible for protecting freedom. Both are mere arms of the state to protect the governments order and do as the state orders - no more no less.

cincybearcat wrote:

This is a reasonable manner?

""Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein."

Immediately assumming people are unthinking because there is a day where they are giving thanks to Veterans?

Seriously? And just like someone else said, you don't have to wait for the day...it's just there to help make sure that you do not forget. Of all the things to be upset about, I find this to be one of the weirdest.

Just because you don't care it's Veterans day doesn't mean it's stupid for others to care about it in their own way.

Sure, you may be a moral character, but do you trust everyone else to have the same view point?

Firemen don't prevent fires, but we need them when there is one. Police don't prevent crime, but we need them when we are victims. You can withdraw our military from all corners of the earth, but it won't bring world peace, and its naive to think we won't ever be pulled into another conflict.

Even neutral, peaceful countries have a military.

FiveB247x

Well for the same reason we don't have civil disorder, this applies. It has very little to do with police, military or similar.

Also, something I didn't mention, people love to say the military protects our freedoms - the last real war in which our freedom was tested was WW2 - that's 60+ yrs ago.... so to make blanket statements which the media does, the nation and those within it do, yes I will shoot it down everytime because it is nothing more than fervor aimed at blind patriotism.

Something else I forgot to mention, militaries exist as a result of one another, not necessarily because they're a good thing.

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Actually it's funny how that quote can be received in different ways. You can think it means people are unthinking as sheep or that solidiers should be respected for merely following orders. Either way, no matter what type of society you live in, everyone "respects" their solidiers....whether good, bad or indifferent. Also, no one has honesty said why we should respect the military. And please save the whole "the protect our freedoms" bs for a baffoon.... militaries don't protect freedoms any more than the police stop crime. If anything, the system of law, logic, civil order and responsibility protect our freedoms. For example, it's no different from saying that there is nothing stopping me from going around shooting people. The police may attempt to stop that, but just because their police doesn't mean it would protect anyone, nor does their existence stop the occurence from happening. The only thing that actually stops it and keeps people protected is MY SELF knowledge that this is unexceptable action, against rule of law and logic and decency. Just as in this example, the police aren't responsible for stopping crime, the military is not responsible for protecting freedom. Both are mere arms of the state to protect the governments order and do as the state orders - no more no less.

cincybearcat wrote:

This is a reasonable manner?

""Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein."

Immediately assumming people are unthinking because there is a day where they are giving thanks to Veterans?

Seriously? And just like someone else said, you don't have to wait for the day...it's just there to help make sure that you do not forget. Of all the things to be upset about, I find this to be one of the weirdest.

Just because you don't care it's Veterans day doesn't mean it's stupid for others to care about it in their own way.

Sure, you may be a moral character, but do you trust everyone else to have the same view point?

Firemen don't prevent fires, but we need them when there is one. Police don't prevent crime, but we need them when we are victims. You can withdraw our military from all corners of the earth, but it won't bring world peace, and its naive to think we won't ever be pulled into another conflict.

Even neutral, peaceful countries have a military.

Dirtie_Frank

FiveB247x wrote:

Well for the same reason we don't have civil disorder, this applies. It has very little to do with police, military or similar.

Also, something I didn't mention, people love to say the military protects our freedoms - the last real war in which our freedom was tested was WW2 - that's 60+ yrs ago.... so to make blanket statements which the media does, the nation and those within it do, yes I will shoot it down everytime because it is nothing more than fervor aimed at blind patriotism.

Something else I forgot to mention, militaries exist as a result of one another, not necessarily because they're a good thing.

cincybearcat wrote:

This is a reasonable manner?

""Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein."

Immediately assumming people are unthinking because there is a day where they are giving thanks to Veterans?

Seriously? And just like someone else said, you don't have to wait for the day...it's just there to help make sure that you do not forget. Of all the things to be upset about, I find this to be one of the weirdest.

Just because you don't care it's Veterans day doesn't mean it's stupid for others to care about it in their own way.

Sure, you may be a moral character, but do you trust everyone else to have the same view point?

Firemen don't prevent fires, but we need them when there is one. Police don't prevent crime, but we need them when we are victims. You can withdraw our military from all corners of the earth, but it won't bring world peace, and its naive to think we won't ever be pulled into another conflict.

Even neutral, peaceful countries have a military.[/quote][/quote]


I beg to differ sir, if not for the volunteer military in this country there might be more attacks similar to the one in the late summer 2001. As a former soldier I do not believe that I have done anything that deserves and sort of respect. My friends and family think otherwise. To say it again, Thank you to all the veterans not only from the US but our allies as well.

FiveB247x

Well that's arguable and quite frankly most of our armed forces in recent history have been used not to protect our borders and nation, but go overseas to foreign lands. And to be completely honest, we're just as unsecure and unprepared for a terrorist attack as we were on 9-10-01 - and that has to do with the government, not military.

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

I beg to differ sir, if not for the volunteer military in this country there might be more attacks similar to the one in the late summer 2001. As a former soldier I do not believe that I have done anything that deserves and sort of respect. My friends and family think otherwise. To say it again, Thank you to all the veterans not only from the US but our allies as well.

Commy

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Well for the same reason we don't have civil disorder, this applies. It has very little to do with police, military or similar.

Also, something I didn't mention, people love to say the military protects our freedoms - the last real war in which our freedom was tested was WW2 - that's 60+ yrs ago.... so to make blanket statements which the media does, the nation and those within it do, yes I will shoot it down everytime because it is nothing more than fervor aimed at blind patriotism.

Something else I forgot to mention, militaries exist as a result of one another, not necessarily because they're a good thing.

cincybearcat wrote:

This is a reasonable manner?

""Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein."

Immediately assumming people are unthinking because there is a day where they are giving thanks to Veterans?

Seriously? And just like someone else said, you don't have to wait for the day...it's just there to help make sure that you do not forget. Of all the things to be upset about, I find this to be one of the weirdest.

Just because you don't care it's Veterans day doesn't mean it's stupid for others to care about it in their own way.

Sure, you may be a moral character, but do you trust everyone else to have the same view point?

Firemen don't prevent fires, but we need them when there is one. Police don't prevent crime, but we need them when we are victims. You can withdraw our military from all corners of the earth, but it won't bring world peace, and its naive to think we won't ever be pulled into another conflict.

Even neutral, peaceful countries have a military.

I beg to differ sir, if not for the volunteer military in this country there might be more attacks similar to the one in the late summer 2001. As a former soldier I do not believe that I have done anything that deserves and sort of respect. My friends and family think otherwise. To say it again, Thank you to all the veterans not only from the US but our allies as well.

if firemen are setting fires we need them even more yeah? especially if nobody realizes they are spilling hte gasoline.


if the police are responsible for crime, we need them even more then too right? again, if people don't realize they are responsible.



same thing with the war on terror. the more you fight, the more they fight. the more you wage war the more they resist. the more you kill the more they want to retaliate. you can't win a war on terror.

its like waging a war on jealousy. it can't be won.