Happy Veterans day or something

FiveB247x

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein.

Jokertt14

the mails not moving and that sucks !!!

FiveB247x

Yeah - on the days the post office is closed, it reminds you how little you need them! :-)

jokertt14 wrote:

the mails not moving and that sucks !!!

Inkling

HAPPY 6TH BIRTHDAY LARISSA!

Dirtie_Frank

Happy Veterans Day to the men and women of the Armed Services Past and Present!!

keeponrockin

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Happy Veterans Day to the men and women of the Armed Services Past and Present!!

We don't agree on much, but this.

FiveB247x

I'm sure I'll hear lots of jargin bout this, but I don't particularly care about Veterans or Veterans day any more than I would anything or anyone else. I don't blindly show patronage or respect to any group of people simply because of their job. Respect should be earned in all facets of life, not simply handed over because of a uniform, training or similar. Also, if you boil down the heart of the issue of what the military does, it has very little to do with actually protecting any citizens freedoms whatsoever. Things like Veterans day are mere guises to evoke blind patriotism from people and I just don't buy into that.

Lastly, if the citizens of our nation really wanted to "support the troops" they'd get the government to have better policies and benefits for those serving, not merely wave yellow flags or have silly speeches which do nothing at the end of the day in terms of results to better their safety or perdiciment in life (which all veterans day really does).

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Happy Veterans Day to the men and women of the Armed Services Past and Present!!

cincybearcat

I can't believe I was actually surprised to see a thread like this...I shouldn't have been.

FiveB247x

Listen, I'm not one of these people who goes around screaming bloody murder about our military or calls them murders, etc. As I stated above, I don't think anyone deserves respect soley for their job nor do I think their job is something we ought to blindly accept as beneficial or responsible for own safety and security (those are illusions).

cincybearcat wrote:

I can't believe I was actually surprised to see a thread like this...I shouldn't have been.

cincybearcat

FiveB247x wrote:

Listen, I'm not one of these people who goes around screaming bloody murder about our military or calls them murders, etc. As I stated above, I don't think anyone deserves respect soley for their job nor do I think their job is something we ought to blindly accept as beneficial or responsible for own safety and security (those are illusions).

cincybearcat wrote:

I can't believe I was actually surprised to see a thread like this...I shouldn't have been.

I know you're not...which is part of the reason I was surprised by the thread.

It's getting to the point where you can't celebrate anything because it always "OUTRAGES" someone. It's crazy to me.

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

Break The Sky

Today is Armistice day. World War I ended today eighty one years ago. Today is the celebration of the end of a war.

Surely we can stop tooting our horns on an arbitrary internet forum about how evil the military is and celebrate in that.

FiveB247x

Feel free to celebrate, but it doesn't mean everyone has to give a crap, that's why we live in a free country.

Also, as you alude too, there's good and bad in any group of people or industry, but I'll take it a step further. Most of our armed forces is not volunteer, it is a job - they get paid to do this. They willingly decide to take on that role and the rewards or repercussions of it. So at some point, whether just or unjust, they are responsible for the actions they carry out (whether good or bad).

cincybearcat wrote:

I know you're not...which is part of the reason I was surprised by the thread.

It's getting to the point where you can't celebrate anything because it always "OUTRAGES" someone. It's crazy to me.

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

FiveB247x

Let's be honest here, yes that is the origin of what the holiday is, but our ignorant society has no clue about such things. Veterans day has turned into celebrating the armed forces.

By the way, you're from Dunkirk eh? My bro went to Fredonia. Small world.

Big Drop wrote:

Today is Armistice day. World War I ended today eighty one years ago. Today is the celebration of the end of a war.

Surely we can stop tooting our horns on an arbitrary internet forum about how evil the military is and celebrate in that.

Break The Sky

FiveB247x wrote:

Let's be honest here, yes that is the origin of what the holiday is, but our ignorant society has no clue about such things. Veterans day has turned into celebrating the armed forces.

By the way, you're from Dunkirk eh? My bro went to Fredonia. Small world.

Big Drop wrote:

Today is Armistice day. World War I ended today eighty one years ago. Today is the celebration of the end of a war.

Surely we can stop tooting our horns on an arbitrary internet forum about how evil the military is and celebrate in that.

I guess I can't argue with that. I think the real solution here is knowledge. It's out there, we just need to go and get it. Just remember that blind rejection is no more educated than blind acceptance.

I'm a student at SUNY Fredonia right now, in my senior year. I grew up down in Jamestown, but I live up here in the northcounty now. Gotta love Ten Club, you could run into your neighbor on these forums that you've lived next to all your life and never knew they were a fan.

Whatever your opinion of today, peace. Best of luck always.

FiveB247x

Well there in itself is the problem - you can lead a horse to water...

And as I said before, I'm not belittling the people of the armed services, I'm just not "celebrating them". It's very easy for many to point a finger at my comments and say they'd lewd or irresponsible, etc... but in all honesty, go try and turn a tv on, read a paper or any other media marker in our society and show me how it's not shoved down everyone's throat to swallow. Which is exactly why I post what I do - not to be arguementive or be a dick, but simply to offer another perspective on the topic.

Also, you're right bout the 10C! Good luck in school.

Big Drop wrote:

I guess I can't argue with that. I think the real solution here is knowledge. It's out there, we just need to go and get it. Just remember that blind rejection is no more educated than blind acceptance.

I'm a student at SUNY Fredonia right now, in my senior year. I grew up down in Jamestown, but I live up here in the northcounty now. Gotta love Ten Club, you could run into your neighbor on these forums that you've lived next to all your life and never knew they were a fan.

Whatever your opinion of today, peace. Best of luck always.

Gern Blansten

FiveB247x wrote:

I'm sure I'll hear lots of jargin bout this, but I don't particularly care about Veterans or Veterans day any more than I would anything or anyone else. I don't blindly show patronage or respect to any group of people simply because of their job. Respect should be earned in all facets of life, not simply handed over because of a uniform, training or similar. Also, if you boil down the heart of the issue of what the military does, it has very little to do with actually protecting any citizens freedoms whatsoever. Things like Veterans day are mere guises to evoke blind patriotism from people and I just don't buy into that.

Lastly, if the citizens of our nation really wanted to "support the troops" they'd get the government to have better policies and benefits for those serving, not merely wave yellow flags or have silly speeches which do nothing at the end of the day in terms of results to better their safety or perdiciment in life (which all veterans day really does).

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

Happy Veterans Day to the men and women of the Armed Services Past and Present!!

I went to my 4th graders VDay program this morning....they sung all the patriotic songs, walked around with little flags, etc. Had several veterans there...probably parents and grandparents, etc.

It is kind of a funny holiday....I certainly respect war veterans but I agree with your statement that if we really wanted to honor them we would treat them much better.

And goddamn if I ever hear that Lee Greenwood song again I'm going to snap

FiveB247x

Ain't indoctrination wonderful :-)

Gern Blansten wrote:

I went to my 4th graders VDay program this morning....they sung all the patriotic songs, walked around with little flags, etc. Had several veterans there...probably parents and grandparents, etc.

It is kind of a funny holiday....I certainly respect war veterans but I agree with your statement that if we really wanted to honor them we would treat them much better.

And goddamn if I ever hear that Lee Greenwood song again I'm going to snap

Gern Blansten

FiveB247x wrote:

Ain't indoctrination wonderful :-)

Gern Blansten wrote:

I went to my 4th graders VDay program this morning....they sung all the patriotic songs, walked around with little flags, etc. Had several veterans there...probably parents and grandparents, etc.

It is kind of a funny holiday....I certainly respect war veterans but I agree with your statement that if we really wanted to honor them we would treat them much better.

And goddamn if I ever hear that Lee Greenwood song again I'm going to snap

that's exactly what I was thinking....especially when they had kids come out on stage individually to spell out L-I-B-E-R-T-Y....each one stating the letter and what it stood for...of course "B" stood for "Bible - what our founding fathers used for inspiration".....I about vomited

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten wrote:

I certainly respect war veterans but I agree with your statement that if we really wanted to honor them we would treat them much better.

I certainly agree with this.

FiveB247x

That's ridiculous. It's a good thing I don't have a child in school, because I would be a teacher and principals worst nightmare

Gern Blansten wrote:

that's exactly what I was thinking....especially when they had kids come out on stage individually to spell out L-I-B-E-R-T-Y....each one stating the letter and what it stood for...of course "B" stood for "Bible - what our founding fathers used for inspiration".....I about vomited

marinebionerd

Thank you to FiveB247x and Big Drop for sparking an intelligent discussion. I have really enjoyed reading your exchange. That's why I love this forum. No matter what any of our views are, we know we all have one awesome thing in common.

I also feel like most "holidays" become warped over time. It's like an ongoing game of whisper down the lane...the end result ends up being very far from the original message.

When I flew up to Philly for the 10/30 show, I was waiting for my ride outside the airport and I saw a WWII Navy veteran waiting for someone in his car. My grandfather and father both served on carriers in the Navy, and I know how important it was to them, especially WWII for my grandfather. I looked at the gentleman, smiled, and just said thank you. He smiled back and looked at me like nobody had said that to him in a long time. It was a small 5 second gesture that actually meant something to both of us. I didn't have to wait for a specific date to thank someone - it was just how I felt at the moment.

I'm not a warm-and-fuzzy kind of gal, but I'm a firm believer that positive energy does have the greatest effect. If and when the mood strikes, throw out something positive to somebody. It doesn't matter if it's a veteran or your local grocer, the unexpected gesture will be appreciated.

Cheers everyone

Break The Sky

marinebionerd wrote:

Thank you to FiveB247x and Big Drop for sparking an intelligent discussion. I have really enjoyed reading your exchange. That's why I love this forum. No matter what any of our views are, we know we all have one awesome thing in common.

Hell yeah. Too bad FiveB247x's brother doesn't still go to SUNY Fredonia, I'd love to have a beer with him.

FiveB247x

Thanks! Just stated what I feel and think. Amazing how if a person does so in a reasonable, well thought out manner, people can understand even if they don't agree and even sometimes learn a little something bout your own thoughts and beliefs. Too bad we live in such a dim-witted society we can't see that often eh?

marinebionerd wrote:

Thank you to FiveB247x and Big Drop for sparking an intelligent discussion. I have really enjoyed reading your exchange. That's why I love this forum. No matter what any of our views are, we know we all have one awesome thing in common.

I also feel like most "holidays" become warped over time. It's like an ongoing game of whisper down the lane...the end result ends up being very far from the original message.

When I flew up to Philly for the 10/30 show, I was waiting for my ride outside the airport and I saw a WWII Navy veteran waiting for someone in his car. My grandfather and father both served on carriers in the Navy, and I know how important it was to them, especially WWII for my grandfather. I looked at the gentleman, smiled, and just said thank you. He smiled back and looked at me like nobody had said that to him in a long time. It was a small 5 second gesture that actually meant something to both of us. I didn't have to wait for a specific date to thank someone - it was just how I felt at the moment.

I'm not a warm-and-fuzzy kind of gal, but I'm a firm believer that positive energy does have the greatest effect. If and when the mood strikes, throw out something positive to somebody. It doesn't matter if it's a veteran or your local grocer, the unexpected gesture will be appreciated.

Cheers everyone

marinebionerd

I'll drink to that! ;-)

FiveB247x wrote:

Thanks! Just stated what I feel and think. Amazing how if a person does so in a reasonable, well thought out manner, people can understand even if they don't agree and even sometimes learn a little something bout your own thoughts and beliefs. Too bad we live in such a dim-witted society we can't see that often eh?

marinebionerd wrote:

Thank you to FiveB247x and Big Drop for sparking an intelligent discussion. I have really enjoyed reading your exchange. That's why I love this forum. No matter what any of our views are, we know we all have one awesome thing in common.

fife

just like valentines day should not be the only time you show people you love love, supporting veterans does just happen on one day. i personally think teh way you show respect for veterans is by doing what they did for you, fight for them. that means going against the powers that are they bosses if their bosses are not doing what is right fo rthem.

soulsinging

cincybearcat wrote:

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

yet we don't have nurse's day, police officer's day, or firefighter's day. what does that say about our country's values and priorities? does it not in the least make you wonder why our leaders are so gung ho on making sure we all revere the military above all of these other equally noble and critical professions? we have veteran's day, memorial day, and one more i can't recall at the moment... 2-3 holidays for military, and none for anyone else.

i'm not a military hater, but i think it's healthy to think about why we have multiple holidays for our military, rather than reflexively and mindlessly giving props. it feels kinda manipulative.

OffHeGoes29

soulsinging wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

yet we don't have nurse's day, police officer's day, or firefighter's day. what does that say about our country's values and priorities? does it not in the least make you wonder why our leaders are so gung ho on making sure we all revere the military above all of these other equally noble and critical professions? we have veteran's day, memorial day, and one more i can't recall at the moment... 2-3 holidays for military, and none for anyone else.

i'm not a military hater, but i think it's healthy to think about why we have multiple holidays for our military, rather than reflexively and mindlessly giving props. it feels kinda manipulative.

Its ok, Veterans don't give a shit if you support them or not.

cincybearcat

This is a reasonable manner?

""Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~Albert Einstein."

Immediately assumming people are unthinking because there is a day where they are giving thanks to Veterans?

Seriously? And just like someone else said, you don't have to wait for the day...it's just there to help make sure that you do not forget. Of all the things to be upset about, I find this to be one of the weirdest.

Just because you don't care it's Veterans day doesn't mean it's stupid for others to care about it in their own way.

cincybearcat

soulsinging wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

yet we don't have nurse's day, police officer's day, or firefighter's day. what does that say about our country's values and priorities? does it not in the least make you wonder why our leaders are so gung ho on making sure we all revere the military above all of these other equally noble and critical professions? we have veteran's day, memorial day, and one more i can't recall at the moment... 2-3 holidays for military, and none for anyone else.

i'm not a military hater, but i think it's healthy to think about why we have multiple holidays for our military, rather than reflexively and mindlessly giving props. it feels kinda manipulative.

You're right, we should have a day for Firefighters and police officers that risk their lives just as the military. Doctors and nurses...not so much, though what they do is equally impressive, they aren't risking their lives. Lawyers...definitely not.

Wobbie

here's a warm and fuzzy for you....

I'm a fireman. We started an ex-marine on his rookie probation 8 months ago. 8 months of taking shit from guys who are (in some cases) half his age. Today (Veteran's Day) he got off probation. He trades his blue helmet for a yellow one. If nothing else, it's a good day for him!

soulsinging

cincybearcat wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I don't think it is crazy to give respect to men and women that volunteer for military service. I think the uniform does stand for something...just like a cop...or a firefighter...or a nurse/doctor...I think the uniform does deserve respect, despite some of the crappy thigns that individuals wearing the uniform have done or despite some of the crap the leaders have asked them to do.

yet we don't have nurse's day, police officer's day, or firefighter's day. what does that say about our country's values and priorities? does it not in the least make you wonder why our leaders are so gung ho on making sure we all revere the military above all of these other equally noble and critical professions? we have veteran's day, memorial day, and one more i can't recall at the moment... 2-3 holidays for military, and none for anyone else.

i'm not a military hater, but i think it's healthy to think about why we have multiple holidays for our military, rather than reflexively and mindlessly giving props. it feels kinda manipulative.

You're right, we should have a day for Firefighters and police officers that risk their lives just as the military. Doctors and nurses...not so much, though what they do is equally impressive, they aren't risking their lives. Lawyers...definitely not.

no argument from me on the last one... you seem to forget i'm a self-loathing lawyer but that's all i'm saying. we should have those days, yet we don't. but we have multiple days for the military. i think that says something about our national priorities and i'm not sure it's a good thing. i'm not opposed to honoring and recognizing our servicemen, but they are one piece of the large puzzle that makes this country great and i can't help thinking that the disproportionate recognition they get reeks of political manipulation.