Both bands are great, but Pearl Jam hasn't redefined themselves since No Code. Wilco redefines themselves with EVERY successive album AND their members have more musical and lyrical talent. Sure, PJ has a larger fan base, but so does American Idol.
Wilco is absolutely more relevant than Pearl Jam. But, it doesn't really matter, and I'm not sure why you're trying to get people all riled up....especially when a LARGE portion of Pearl Jam fans still don't listen to anything other than Alice in Chains, PJ, and Stone Temple Pilots. Now it sounds like I'M the one trying to rile people up, but I'm not. Stack PJ's last three records up against Wilco's....and the results are embarrassingly in Wilco's favor. I think even Pearl Jam themselves would agree....but it is comparing two very different things, I guess.
******************************
Maybe all I need is a shot in the arm....
This thread had some potential for great discussion and comparison/contrast if it hadn't begun with such an inflammatory statement.
Sorry to see all the Wilco haters. They really are an enjoyable group of musicians and (in my opinion) a more accessible band these days than PJ tends to be. I agree with intodeep about finding a lot of crossover in the two fanbases. Seems every Wilco show I've been to in the past three years, I find several people to talk to PJ about.
I don't know whether relevancy can actually be gauged, but I'd say both bands put on quite spectacular live shows (though Wilco tends to tour with more frequency and variation in locales).
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Wilco is absolutely more relevant than Pearl Jam. But, it doesn't really matter, and I'm not sure why you're trying to get people all riled up....especially when a LARGE portion of Pearl Jam fans still don't listen to anything other than Alice in Chains, PJ, and Stone Temple Pilots. Now it sounds like I'M the one trying to rile people up, but I'm not. Stack PJ's last three records up against Wilco's....and the results are embarrassingly in Wilco's favor. I think even Pearl Jam themselves would agree....but it is comparing two very different things, I guess.
Well said. And the part about many PJ fans only listening to AIC, Soundgarden, and STP is so fucking true.
Stack PJ's last three records up against Wilco's....and the results are embarrassingly in Wilco's favor. I think even Pearl Jam themselves would agree....but it is comparing two very different things, I guess.
good synopsis. daytime hit the nail on the head though
"Fuck the talkin' let's start rockin" - Eddie Vedder 9-5-00 Pittsburgh
4/26/03 Pittsburgh 5/3/03 State College 7/12/03 Hershey 10/1/04 Reading 9/28/05 Pittsburgh 5/20/06 Cleveland 6/23/06 Pittsburgh 6/22/08 DC
friends don't let friends listen to good charlotte
No, Wilco are sorta popular in a cool, hip indie sort of way. Would they sell out MSG two nights in a row? I'm not sure, but I don't think so.
Ask 100 people at random on the street to name one Wilco song, and I'll bet 90 percent of the people can't.
Ask 100 people at random to name one PJ song, and I'll bet at least 90 percent can come up with Betterman.
Just because you like or I like someone doesn't make them "very popular." Well-liked in your own personal musical circles does not equal "very popular" or mainstream.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Both bands are great, but Pearl Jam hasn't redefined themselves since No Code. Wilco redefines themselves with EVERY successive album AND their members have more musical and lyrical talent. Sure, PJ has a larger fan base, but so does American Idol.
Nels Cline is a far better guitarist that Mike McCready.
FACT.
No doubt about it. I LOVE that Mike McCready is in this band....but there are literally thousands of things Nels Cline can do on a guitar that Mike can't possibly do....whereas Nels could do everything Mike does....and better...EXCEPT perhaps smashing a guitar...but again....it doesn't really matter....they're in two completely different bands.
******************************
Maybe all I need is a shot in the arm....
No, Wilco are sorta popular in a cool, hip indie sort of way. Would they sell out MSG two nights in a row? I'm not sure, but I don't think so.
Ask 100 people at random on the street to name one Wilco song, and I'll bet 90 percent of the people can't.
Ask 100 people at random to name one PJ song, and I'll bet at least 90 percent can come up with Betterman.
Just because you like or I like someone doesn't make them "very popular." Well-liked in your own personal musical circles does not equal "very popular" or mainstream.
Relevancy doesn't have anything to do with popularity.
But if I had to choose between PJ MSG or Wilco in a 1200 person venue on the same night, Wilco wins every single time.
No doubt about it. I LOVE that Mike McCready is in this band....but there are literally thousands of things Nels Cline can do on a guitar that Mike can't possibly do....whereas Nels could do everything Mike does....and better...EXCEPT perhaps smashing a guitar...but again....it doesn't really matter....they're in two completely different bands.
mike can do it, he just chooses not to. he repeats himself anymore, he's gotten lazy. keep in mind mike is the reason i started playing. as for wilco and msg, I think they could sell out MSG rather easily. you would be surprised.
"Fuck the talkin' let's start rockin" - Eddie Vedder 9-5-00 Pittsburgh
4/26/03 Pittsburgh 5/3/03 State College 7/12/03 Hershey 10/1/04 Reading 9/28/05 Pittsburgh 5/20/06 Cleveland 6/23/06 Pittsburgh 6/22/08 DC
friends don't let friends listen to good charlotte
Ugh! Wilco is just one of those bands that I CANNOT get into! I'm not being an ignorant Pearl Jam elitist either. I listen to a sh!t ton of other bands, and see way more non-pearl jam shows than Pearl Jam shows on average, but Wilco just leaves me with an elevator music feel.
I have tried too. I was there for their set at Lollapalooza 2006, and yes they did have a huge sound problem, but still. It was awful.
I even went to see Nels Cline in a solo project in NYC. That wasn't soo terrible but it did not move me.
What it boils down to is this: Wilco has NEVER blown my skirt up! But Pearl Jam? Does it EVER SINGLE F'n TIME!
Nels Cline is a far better guitarist that Mike McCready.
FACT.
I wouldn't say "better" but I would certainly say different. Cline uses all sorts of experimental equipment and distortion techniques (especially in his solo projects). Perhaps that makes him more adventurous or allows him to cover a broader scope of guitar playing, but that does not, by definition make him a "better" guitar player. What Mike does, he does brilliantly. He does not need fancy pedals and crazy techniques.
Is my mom's spaghetti any less amazing just because its the only dish she ventures to make? NO!
I wouldn't say "better" but I would certainly say different. Cline uses all sorts of experimental equipment and distortion techniques (especially in his solo projects). Perhaps that makes him more adventurous or allows him to cover a broader scope of guitar playing, but that does not, by definition make him a "better" guitar player. What Mike does, he does brilliantly. He does not need fancy pedals and crazy techniques.
Is my mom's spaghetti any less amazing just because its the only dish she ventures to make? NO!
I don't really buy this. Mike uses a shit load of pedals. I just think skills-wise. Nels has him beat. Mike seems to reuse various phrases countless times in his solos and has been for years.
I don't really buy this. Mike uses a shit load of pedals. I just think skills-wise. Nels has him beat. Mike seems to reuse various phrases countless times in his solos and has been for years.
I don't think its because Mike can't, I think its simply because he choses not to. Furthermore, I don't think that fact alone discounts the work he does for the band.
Clearly, what he's doing works. We wouldn't be here, in this thread right now, if we didn't like what he was doing, right?
I don't think its because Mike can't, I think its simply because he choses not to. Furthermore, I don't think that fact alone discounts the work he does for the band.
Clearly, what he's doing works. We wouldn't be here, in this thread right now, if we didn't like what he was doing, right?
I'm just saying that I wish Mike would do something a bit more innovative. There is nothing more irritating than a lazy guitar player, when you know he could be better.
I'm just saying that I wish Mike would do something a bit more innovative. There is nothing more irritating than a lazy guitar player, when you know he could be better.
Understood.
I would be curious to see what he could do, if indeed, he decided to push the envelope and experiment a little.
Then again, I'll always love him, one trick pony as he may be
I think some are having trouble with the term relavance. The stones can still pack MSG or whereever for however many nights they want because they were popular and that carries over. They have not been relavent in years though.
I think what the OP may mean is their sound is fresh and more interesting in many ways then what we have heard from PJ since 2000 and beyond.
As for the Nels Cline debate. Nels is a better guitarist, but it depends on what style you like. Mike is really good at giving you a nice solo with a warm feeling. Nels is very good at making a complicated jazz style solo. I appreciate both for what they are, but I think Nels if he wanted to could do more crossover work and cover more ground then Mikey. That said sometimes i think Mike gets held back a little in PJ i some of my favorite stuff of his was from mad season.
Again good bands that are a bit different. I think the reason a lot of fans who open up their ears to music tend to like both of them is because the root of their music is geniune. They both really like making music and yeah they have to make soem cash doing it but they did not join a rock band to be rich. It was about the music. That shows in both of their songs to me.
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How can one judge art? You either like it or you don't.
Both of theses bands are great artists. They express themselves through music. Which is better than the other? Who knows and who cares. I will enjoy it and be thankful that people who have the talent to produce music that allows me to escape once in awhile continue to do so.
I think some are having trouble with the term relavance. The stones can still pack MSG or whereever for however many nights they want because they were popular and that carries over. They have not been relavent in years though.
I think what the OP may mean is their sound is fresh and more interesting in many ways then what we have heard from PJ since 2000 and beyond.
As for the Nels Cline debate. Nels is a better guitarist, but it depends on what style you like. Mike is really good at giving you a nice solo with a warm feeling. Nels is very good at making a complicated jazz style solo. I appreciate both for what they are, but I think Nels if he wanted to could do more crossover work and cover more ground then Mikey. That said sometimes i think Mike gets held back a little in PJ i some of my favorite stuff of his was from mad season.
Again good bands that are a bit different. I think the reason a lot of fans who open up their ears to music tend to like both of them is because the root of their music is geniune. They both really like making music and yeah they have to make soem cash doing it but they did not join a rock band to be rich. It was about the music. That shows in both of their songs to me.
Well said. I think you pretty much nailed it. (except I'm still finding the word "better" a bit hard to swallow)
this is a ridiculous argument. the purpose of both bands are entirely different. that being said, nils is a way more talented guitarist than mike. or at least that's the way it looks from what they've shown us. mike is sort of a one trick pony and nils is just brilliant all over the place.
if you like mike's style, that doesn't make him a better player. you know??
this is a ridiculous argument. the purpose of both bands are entirely different. that being said, nils is a way more talented guitarist than mike. or at least that's the way it looks from what they've shown us. mike is sort of a one trick pony and nils is just brilliant all over the place.
if you like mike's style, that doesn't make him a better player. you know??
no one is saying either is bad. i read a mikey interview a while back that said he went more into the blues shtick he's stuck in. pretty much since 04 he's been using the same solos over and over. maybe he's being held back, maybe he's holding himself back. take the pedals out of the equation too. nels doesn't necessarily rely on them. you would have to see them live to be able to fully debate this argument. head over to wilcoworld.net and go to the roadcase. nels blows mikey out of the water right now. they are both great, one is better though. it pains me to say that too. like i said before, i started playing because of mike.
"Fuck the talkin' let's start rockin" - Eddie Vedder 9-5-00 Pittsburgh
4/26/03 Pittsburgh 5/3/03 State College 7/12/03 Hershey 10/1/04 Reading 9/28/05 Pittsburgh 5/20/06 Cleveland 6/23/06 Pittsburgh 6/22/08 DC
friends don't let friends listen to good charlotte
Both bands are great, but Pearl Jam hasn't redefined themselves since No Code. Wilco redefines themselves with EVERY successive album AND their members have more musical and lyrical talent. Sure, PJ has a larger fan base, but so does American Idol.
Did you really just compare PJ to American Idol???
I haven't heard Wilco, so I can't compare - but seems a bit off to come to a PJ forum and put them down.
Both bands are great, but Pearl Jam hasn't redefined themselves since No Code. Wilco redefines themselves with EVERY successive album AND their members have more musical and lyrical talent. Sure, PJ has a larger fan base, but so does American Idol.
WHO IN THE WORLD IS WILCO. U MUST BE CRAZY SOME BAND I'VE NEVER HEARD OF BEFORE IS MORE RELEVANT THEN PJ U ARE SICK SON JUST SICK.
Both bands are great, but Pearl Jam hasn't redefined themselves since No Code. Wilco redefines themselves with EVERY successive album AND their members have more musical and lyrical talent. Sure, PJ has a larger fan base, but so does American Idol.
Both bands are great, but Pearl Jam hasn't redefined themselves since No Code. Wilco redefines themselves with EVERY successive album AND their members have more musical and lyrical talent. Sure, PJ has a larger fan base, but so does American Idol.
AND MY BALL SWEAT IS MORE RELEVANT THAN PEARL JAM TOO...
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Comments
Wilco is absolutely more relevant than Pearl Jam. But, it doesn't really matter, and I'm not sure why you're trying to get people all riled up....especially when a LARGE portion of Pearl Jam fans still don't listen to anything other than Alice in Chains, PJ, and Stone Temple Pilots. Now it sounds like I'M the one trying to rile people up, but I'm not. Stack PJ's last three records up against Wilco's....and the results are embarrassingly in Wilco's favor. I think even Pearl Jam themselves would agree....but it is comparing two very different things, I guess.
Maybe all I need is a shot in the arm....
Sorry to see all the Wilco haters. They really are an enjoyable group of musicians and (in my opinion) a more accessible band these days than PJ tends to be. I agree with intodeep about finding a lot of crossover in the two fanbases. Seems every Wilco show I've been to in the past three years, I find several people to talk to PJ about.
I don't know whether relevancy can actually be gauged, but I'd say both bands put on quite spectacular live shows (though Wilco tends to tour with more frequency and variation in locales).
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New Orleans 1995
Fort Lauderdale 1996
Atlanta & Birmingham 1998
New Orleans 2000
Tampa 2003
Kissimmee 2004
New York City (x 2) 2008
East Troy (x 2) 2011
Chicago & New Orleans 2013
Hampton, Raleigh, Boston 2016
Baltimore 2020
Louisville 2022
Philadelphia & Baltimore 2024
Well said. And the part about many PJ fans only listening to AIC, Soundgarden, and STP is so fucking true.
4/26/03 Pittsburgh 5/3/03 State College 7/12/03 Hershey 10/1/04 Reading 9/28/05 Pittsburgh 5/20/06 Cleveland 6/23/06 Pittsburgh 6/22/08 DC
friends don't let friends listen to good charlotte
No, Wilco are sorta popular in a cool, hip indie sort of way. Would they sell out MSG two nights in a row? I'm not sure, but I don't think so.
Ask 100 people at random on the street to name one Wilco song, and I'll bet 90 percent of the people can't.
Ask 100 people at random to name one PJ song, and I'll bet at least 90 percent can come up with Betterman.
Just because you like or I like someone doesn't make them "very popular." Well-liked in your own personal musical circles does not equal "very popular" or mainstream.
for the least they could possibly do
maybe to you
No doubt about it. I LOVE that Mike McCready is in this band....but there are literally thousands of things Nels Cline can do on a guitar that Mike can't possibly do....whereas Nels could do everything Mike does....and better...EXCEPT perhaps smashing a guitar...but again....it doesn't really matter....they're in two completely different bands.
Maybe all I need is a shot in the arm....
Relevancy doesn't have anything to do with popularity.
But if I had to choose between PJ MSG or Wilco in a 1200 person venue on the same night, Wilco wins every single time.
4/26/03 Pittsburgh 5/3/03 State College 7/12/03 Hershey 10/1/04 Reading 9/28/05 Pittsburgh 5/20/06 Cleveland 6/23/06 Pittsburgh 6/22/08 DC
friends don't let friends listen to good charlotte
I have tried too. I was there for their set at Lollapalooza 2006, and yes they did have a huge sound problem, but still. It was awful.
I even went to see Nels Cline in a solo project in NYC. That wasn't soo terrible but it did not move me.
What it boils down to is this: Wilco has NEVER blown my skirt up! But Pearl Jam? Does it EVER SINGLE F'n TIME!
4/26/03 Pittsburgh 5/3/03 State College 7/12/03 Hershey 10/1/04 Reading 9/28/05 Pittsburgh 5/20/06 Cleveland 6/23/06 Pittsburgh 6/22/08 DC
friends don't let friends listen to good charlotte
I wouldn't say "better" but I would certainly say different. Cline uses all sorts of experimental equipment and distortion techniques (especially in his solo projects). Perhaps that makes him more adventurous or allows him to cover a broader scope of guitar playing, but that does not, by definition make him a "better" guitar player. What Mike does, he does brilliantly. He does not need fancy pedals and crazy techniques.
Is my mom's spaghetti any less amazing just because its the only dish she ventures to make? NO!
I don't really buy this. Mike uses a shit load of pedals. I just think skills-wise. Nels has him beat. Mike seems to reuse various phrases countless times in his solos and has been for years.
I don't think its because Mike can't, I think its simply because he choses not to. Furthermore, I don't think that fact alone discounts the work he does for the band.
Clearly, what he's doing works. We wouldn't be here, in this thread right now, if we didn't like what he was doing, right?
EXACTLY.
Maybe all I need is a shot in the arm....
I'm just saying that I wish Mike would do something a bit more innovative. There is nothing more irritating than a lazy guitar player, when you know he could be better.
Understood.
I would be curious to see what he could do, if indeed, he decided to push the envelope and experiment a little.
Then again, I'll always love him, one trick pony as he may be
I think what the OP may mean is their sound is fresh and more interesting in many ways then what we have heard from PJ since 2000 and beyond.
As for the Nels Cline debate. Nels is a better guitarist, but it depends on what style you like. Mike is really good at giving you a nice solo with a warm feeling. Nels is very good at making a complicated jazz style solo. I appreciate both for what they are, but I think Nels if he wanted to could do more crossover work and cover more ground then Mikey. That said sometimes i think Mike gets held back a little in PJ i some of my favorite stuff of his was from mad season.
Again good bands that are a bit different. I think the reason a lot of fans who open up their ears to music tend to like both of them is because the root of their music is geniune. They both really like making music and yeah they have to make soem cash doing it but they did not join a rock band to be rich. It was about the music. That shows in both of their songs to me.
Charlotte 03
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Both of theses bands are great artists. They express themselves through music. Which is better than the other? Who knows and who cares. I will enjoy it and be thankful that people who have the talent to produce music that allows me to escape once in awhile continue to do so.
Well said. I think you pretty much nailed it. (except I'm still finding the word "better" a bit hard to swallow)
if you like mike's style, that doesn't make him a better player. you know??
Doesn't make him "worse" either though!
4/26/03 Pittsburgh 5/3/03 State College 7/12/03 Hershey 10/1/04 Reading 9/28/05 Pittsburgh 5/20/06 Cleveland 6/23/06 Pittsburgh 6/22/08 DC
friends don't let friends listen to good charlotte
Did you really just compare PJ to American Idol???
I haven't heard Wilco, so I can't compare - but seems a bit off to come to a PJ forum and put them down.
obviously, i disagree with this. some of here are not yes people. everything should be up for debate.
you're the type of guy who listens to like 3 bands, yes?
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
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so cute they are