Osaka, Japan (2/21/95), San Diego (7/10/98), Las Vegas (10/22/00), San Diego (10/25/00), Las Vegas (6/6/03), Las Vegas (7/6/06), Los Angeles (7/9/06), VH1 Rock Honors (7/12/08), Ed Solo (7/8/11), Ed Solo (11/1/12), Los Angeles (11/23/13)
If you don't think Target having to eat unsold units hurts the
band going forward it's you who is missing the point.
I'd want someone planning my sales effort who sees the long view.
perhaps when they hit the bargain bin, it will lessen the value of this particular record
but it will have minimal effect in long run
since it will be at least three years from now, everyone will have forgotten and be jonesing for a new record
and you didnt read what I said above about the long run
When I first heard about the Target deal, I didnt cringe about the fact they were doing a deal with a major corporation, my anger or disappointment was the fact this was sort of a wierd and silly idea if they wanted to sell records.
Its clear, for Avocado and Backspacer, the band, explicitly were hoping that these records would sell big numbers, and the press and marketing for both records reflected that.
I posted about this months ago, when the deal was announced and I said it was silly to do this, with Target, to focus attention and hype and the media, on the album itself as opposed to the songs specifically or the band.
My buisness plan for backspacer would have been: liscencing some of the tunes for use in tv shows like Greys Anatomy or The Hills. Just Breathe or The End, no doubt would fit perfectly, as some emotional scene in Greys. I would have liscenced the tunes to movies and trailers. I would have given the album out, to all stores, thus the Target deal wouldnt be in place, and it would have been available as instant download for 5 bucks on the Ten Club website, with various other versions of the album also on the site, maybe a slightly higher priced Backspacer for 10 bucks but included would be a free LP of the record and then additional bonus tracks only available with that purchase. I would have forgotten about Spin and rolling Stone magazine as both are non issues at this point, and done interviews with the online press even those that arent necesarily PJ friendly. Interviews with Pichfork, maybe do one of those things for Pitchfork TV where they play a few songs on the rooftop of the Pitchfork headquarters. I would do press with Stereogum and Brooklyn Vegan. Does the band still oppose using their music in tv commercials for products? They obviously think some corporations even if they are huge can still be fair and just, so, why not lend the use of the songs for commercials? The Shins did a commercial for Mcdonalds, and as far as I know they are still considered a viable and top tier band in indie rock. They could have done press with KEXP, oneof the premiere rock stations in the nation that actually plays good rock music, and ignores 3 doors down and Nickelback.
This is a smart band. A wise band. But as I pointed out months ago, they are clueless as to how to deal with the current musical climate, which of course is understandable.
It makes no sense to spend a ton of time, doing an elaborate liner notes and album cover package. PJ are the masters at this, but the time for it has passed. They should have pffered the Tom Tomorrow stuff, exclusively for the 10 buck version of the record that I mentioned above. I am not complaining. And in any case, my buisness plan that I outlined, doesnt leave the band with less money and less sales, in fact my model gains them large numbers of new fans, and a deluge of press, and lots of sales.
The crux of the issue is that the majority of bands, and labels are clueless as to how to proceed in this new downloading era. Pearl jam is no exception. I think the band had a million options, and mulled them all, especially when In Rainbows shook things up. I think they took a wrong turn though.
dude is any of this tongue in cheek? Can i ask, are you a professional recording artist? I have read none of the replies to your original post, ive purely read your post. Some of it seems to me like your taking the piss....are you? If you are making serious points, I want to know are you a professional recording artist. Do you tour/release records for a living? Have you read all the comments by Pearl Jam band members about this deal with Target. I am a professional recording artist. I too have had to think about new and original ways to release our singles/records/videos...If indeed you are trying to make serious arguments here, i really cant see how your line of thinking would sell anything...i cant agree with your questioning of the Backspacer strategy, I think most recording artists would love to see $4-$5 of every unit sold. I KNOW everyone of us would LOVE TO OWN OUR OWN MASTERS. I dont know of any major chain that would let the masters revert to the band, allow selling on through independent sources and release a fan club only edition. If in fact you are an artist, do you own any of your masters? Bruce Springsteen doesnt even own his. I look forward interestingly to your reply.
perhaps when they hit the bargain bin, it will lessen the value of this particular record
but it will have minimal effect in long run... everyone will have forgotten
Retailers like Target certainly won't forget it.
There's little chance anyone will offer PJ a 1 million unit gaurantee next time around.
It is hard for me to criticize the band too much on this one. Some of my friends who say they are Pearl Jam fans, and haven't bought an album since Yield, actually heard about Backspacer and bought the album. I can't tell you how many people have told me that it's good to see that Pearl Jam is back. I think they reached some of the audience they were going after. Getting people to actually pay for an album is a big thing in today's world of one hit downloads.
i feel that the band likes the aspects of the "old" marketing model. talking to someone who was involved in the digital side of Backspacer, who dealt with the band directly, he said that they had certain directives set in stone and would not compromise. so yeah you're gonna see them do new things, but htey love the old model- the LP, the mags, that's what they love about music. they're not trying to gain new fans in my honest opinion, if they do great. they are doing what they always have done, be a great fuckin socially concious rock band and making music. that's what i love about them and why they make music. believe it or not we're just along for the ride. if we wanna get off we can at anytime. not me. the ride never ends
perhaps when they hit the bargain bin, it will lessen the value of this particular record
but it will have minimal effect in long run... everyone will have forgotten
Retailers like Target certainly won't forget it.
There's little chance anyone will offer PJ a 1 million unit gaurantee next time around.
perhaps, but I am sure PJ will get a good deal nonetheless
the target deal is also part of a bigger marketing strategy involving publicity, brand image, foot traffic and having PJ do a commercial for your stores-there is a lot more to it than units moved-they probably sold a few more rockband units as well
perhaps, but I am sure PJ will get a good deal nonetheless
the target deal is also part of a bigger marketing strategy involving publicity, brand image, foot traffic and having PJ do a commercial for your stores-there is a lot more to it than units moved-they probably sold a few more rockband units as well
...and candy, clothes, ipods, etc. When somebody watches the commercial, he/she probably just sees TARGET and remembered they had to get ready for halloween and/or xmas. It´s a deal valuable both ways. Otherwise, it would not have been done.
What the OP does not put in his head is that PJ probably doesn´t even have significant goals at this point of their musical careers. Of course they want their records to sell. They want their music to be heard. But like someone posted before, they don´t want to be the next best thing, again. Deals are set. Money cashed in. Don´t have to worry about supporting their families. Keep touring. What else do they want?
If there is one thing I am sure about this band, it would be that they are not greedy people. I bet they honestly think they have more than they deserve.
my 8 day old cocker spaniel Shitbrick could give a better model than this.
lol..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
When I first heard about the Target deal, I didnt cringe about the fact they were doing a deal with a major corporation, my anger or disappointment was the fact this was sort of a wierd and silly idea if they wanted to sell records.
Its clear, for Avocado and Backspacer, the band, explicitly were hoping that these records would sell big numbers, and the press and marketing for both records reflected that.
I posted about this months ago, when the deal was announced and I said it was silly to do this, with Target, to focus attention and hype and the media, on the album itself as opposed to the songs specifically or the band.
My buisness plan for backspacer would have been: liscencing some of the tunes for use in tv shows like Greys Anatomy or The Hills. Just Breathe or The End, no doubt would fit perfectly, as some emotional scene in Greys. I would have liscenced the tunes to movies and trailers. I would have given the album out, to all stores, thus the Target deal wouldnt be in place, and it would have been available as instant download for 5 bucks on the Ten Club website, with various other versions of the album also on the site, maybe a slightly higher priced Backspacer for 10 bucks but included would be a free LP of the record and then additional bonus tracks only available with that purchase. I would have forgotten about Spin and rolling Stone magazine as both are non issues at this point, and done interviews with the online press even those that arent necesarily PJ friendly. Interviews with Pichfork, maybe do one of those things for Pitchfork TV where they play a few songs on the rooftop of the Pitchfork headquarters. I would do press with Stereogum and Brooklyn Vegan. Does the band still oppose using their music in tv commercials for products? They obviously think some corporations even if they are huge can still be fair and just, so, why not lend the use of the songs for commercials? The Shins did a commercial for Mcdonalds, and as far as I know they are still considered a viable and top tier band in indie rock. They could have done press with KEXP, oneof the premiere rock stations in the nation that actually plays good rock music, and ignores 3 doors down and Nickelback.
This is a smart band. A wise band. But as I pointed out months ago, they are clueless as to how to deal with the current musical climate, which of course is understandable.
It makes no sense to spend a ton of time, doing an elaborate liner notes and album cover package. PJ are the masters at this, but the time for it has passed. They should have pffered the Tom Tomorrow stuff, exclusively for the 10 buck version of the record that I mentioned above. I am not complaining. And in any case, my buisness plan that I outlined, doesnt leave the band with less money and less sales, in fact my model gains them large numbers of new fans, and a deluge of press, and lots of sales.
The crux of the issue is that the majority of bands, and labels are clueless as to how to proceed in this new downloading era. Pearl jam is no exception. I think the band had a million options, and mulled them all, especially when In Rainbows shook things up. I think they took a wrong turn though.
dude is any of this tongue in cheek? Can i ask, are you a professional recording artist? I have read none of the replies to your original post, ive purely read your post. Some of it seems to me like your taking the piss....are you? If you are making serious points, I want to know are you a professional recording artist. Do you tour/release records for a living? Have you read all the comments by Pearl Jam band members about this deal with Target. I am a professional recording artist. I too have had to think about new and original ways to release our singles/records/videos...If indeed you are trying to make serious arguments here, i really cant see how your line of thinking would sell anything...i cant agree with your questioning of the Backspacer strategy, I think most recording artists would love to see $4-$5 of every unit sold. I KNOW everyone of us would LOVE TO OWN OUR OWN MASTERS. I dont know of any major chain that would let the masters revert to the band, allow selling on through independent sources and release a fan club only edition. If in fact you are an artist, do you own any of your masters? Bruce Springsteen doesnt even own his. I look forward interestingly to your reply.
You may be waiting a while for that reply..this is kind of his M.O. ..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Bottom line, they did the target deal because they were assured a certain volume (1,000,000 - although I'm not sure that's been confirmed by anybody in the know) and a price per sale (approx $4/per) that could never be acheived any other way.
Sometimes the bottom line is more important then the number of cd's sold. The band paid for the recording of the new album, so the Target deal mitigated some of the risk involved with a self-financed album.
The fatal flaw in this line of thinking is in equating Pearl Jam in the Backspacer era with The Shins pre Garden State. It's an absolutely ridiculous comparison and simply doesn't hold up. Pearl Jam has been as exposed as they ever will be and aren't some underground darling waiting to be discovered. They are an aging act that the general public sees as irrelevant (not saying I agree, just saying that's the way it is). Someone at Grey's Anatomy licensing "Just Breathe" risks their show being seen as out of touch and irrelevant as well, whereas if they license a Mars Volta song or something by Phoenix they appear to have their finger on the pulse.
Don't kid yourself, Pearl Jam is smart enough to understand their place in the current climate. That's exactly why the Target deal is so smart when taken hand in hand with their complete ownership of the product. That is the kind of deal bands dream of. Getting their music heard on ESPN and Fox during baseball was another great move, as was mentioned before.
Regarding singles - you're behind the curve on this one as well. With the advent of satellite radio and digital downloads, singles are meaningless as well. I don't have satellite but when I was listening to it in the car last month I heard "The Fixer", "Got Some", "Amongst The Waves" and "Just Breathe" across a few channels. Why release one single when you can make the whole album available and let the music advertise itself - especially in this day and age.
When you question the actual packaging of the record you misunderstand the basic concept of making the physical product they are selling valuable. If they were to abandon the art and the liner notes what is to persuade anyone to buy the album at all? Think of the fact that they produce vinyl albums and ask yourself if this is a band that sees value in the physical possession of records. You're right - it's not the cutting edge, but there is no reason to go to the extremes that you are suggesting, especially for a band that ties the art of the album in with the experience of the music the way that Pearl Jam always has. They clearly don't care if the tastemakers get it or not, and at the end of the day it isn't going to hurt their bottom line. In fact, it gives people another reason to purchase what they are selling rather than stealing it digitally.
Finally, when discussing licensing of songs, I will agree with you that marrying music to an image (whether it's through a film, television show or even an ad) is a great marketing tool when the right piece of music is used to market the right film/television show/project. There have to be benefits to both parties. We have no idea if anyone is interested in using PJ's music at this point and if so, whether the band considers that use of their song in their best interest or in the best interest of the band.
Overall, I'm not sure there is a better example of an artist balancing their art with the commerce that their art generates for them. It's gotta be a very difficult line to walk and from my perspective, Pearl Jam does it expertly.
wow, excellent post. :thumbup:
what the OP seems to miss is simply, pj is 20 years in their career, a career started with a crazy BANG, and they've gotten what they want from that. they are EXACTLY where they want to be - and the target deal is exactly what they desired at this point in their career. end of story.
one million cds units - guaranteed - with a share of $5 a pop. damn genius. and they STILL got to sell to indie stores, on their own website, itunes, etc...i don't see how anyone could question the brilliance of that. again, pearl jam are exactly where they want to be. just b/c someone may think it's not where they should be, or how they personally think it 'should be done'.....doesn't make a shit of difference..
I haven't read most of the previous posts, but I think merchandising, which PJ seems to congregate to in selling and promoting themselves, (and making more pocket money) may be hurting them during these recession times, and may (I said may) not be the most efficient way of getting the music out and heard among major audiences.
What I've seen lately with Them Crooked Vultures, with streaming their entire album before it's gone to sale, now that's getting your music out there....and it's FREE for the listeners. No reason for merchandising and risking the possibiliity of potential consumers maybe buying your music, when you can give 'em a preview for free. Now that's publicity.
Also, the Foo Fighters gave a free online LIVE performance via Facebook on 10/30 in advance of their Greatest Hits release. They took live online requests, the whole "show" was almost fully by request. All I could think of was, PJ has GOT to do this!! Ingenious, innnovative and FREE for consumers. Especially in this recession, I think getting music out to listeners for free beats any merchandise offer ever.
Comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h05ZQ7WHw8Y
I prefer the "WTF Blanket" myself.
If you don't think Target having to eat unsold units hurts the
band going forward it's you who is missing the point.
I'd want someone planning my sales effort who sees the long view.
I'll ride the wave where it takes me...
but it will have minimal effect in long run
since it will be at least three years from now, everyone will have forgotten and be jonesing for a new record
and you didnt read what I said above about the long run
dude is any of this tongue in cheek? Can i ask, are you a professional recording artist? I have read none of the replies to your original post, ive purely read your post. Some of it seems to me like your taking the piss....are you? If you are making serious points, I want to know are you a professional recording artist. Do you tour/release records for a living? Have you read all the comments by Pearl Jam band members about this deal with Target. I am a professional recording artist. I too have had to think about new and original ways to release our singles/records/videos...If indeed you are trying to make serious arguments here, i really cant see how your line of thinking would sell anything...i cant agree with your questioning of the Backspacer strategy, I think most recording artists would love to see $4-$5 of every unit sold. I KNOW everyone of us would LOVE TO OWN OUR OWN MASTERS. I dont know of any major chain that would let the masters revert to the band, allow selling on through independent sources and release a fan club only edition. If in fact you are an artist, do you own any of your masters? Bruce Springsteen doesnt even own his. I look forward interestingly to your reply.
Retailers like Target certainly won't forget it.
There's little chance anyone will offer PJ a 1 million unit gaurantee next time around.
I'll ride the wave where it takes me...
this is where I stopped reading.
the good news for you is that you get to enjoy backspacer and the band did okay.
the target deal is also part of a bigger marketing strategy involving publicity, brand image, foot traffic and having PJ do a commercial for your stores-there is a lot more to it than units moved-they probably sold a few more rockband units as well
...and candy, clothes, ipods, etc. When somebody watches the commercial, he/she probably just sees TARGET and remembered they had to get ready for halloween and/or xmas. It´s a deal valuable both ways. Otherwise, it would not have been done.
What the OP does not put in his head is that PJ probably doesn´t even have significant goals at this point of their musical careers. Of course they want their records to sell. They want their music to be heard. But like someone posted before, they don´t want to be the next best thing, again. Deals are set. Money cashed in. Don´t have to worry about supporting their families. Keep touring. What else do they want?
If there is one thing I am sure about this band, it would be that they are not greedy people. I bet they honestly think they have more than they deserve.
lol..
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
You may be waiting a while for that reply..this is kind of his M.O.
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
wow, excellent post. :thumbup:
what the OP seems to miss is simply, pj is 20 years in their career, a career started with a crazy BANG, and they've gotten what they want from that. they are EXACTLY where they want to be - and the target deal is exactly what they desired at this point in their career. end of story.
one million cds units - guaranteed - with a share of $5 a pop. damn genius. and they STILL got to sell to indie stores, on their own website, itunes, etc...i don't see how anyone could question the brilliance of that. again, pearl jam are exactly where they want to be. just b/c someone may think it's not where they should be, or how they personally think it 'should be done'.....doesn't make a shit of difference..
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
What I've seen lately with Them Crooked Vultures, with streaming their entire album before it's gone to sale, now that's getting your music out there....and it's FREE for the listeners. No reason for merchandising and risking the possibiliity of potential consumers maybe buying your music, when you can give 'em a preview for free. Now that's publicity.
Also, the Foo Fighters gave a free online LIVE performance via Facebook on 10/30 in advance of their Greatest Hits release. They took live online requests, the whole "show" was almost fully by request. All I could think of was, PJ has GOT to do this!! Ingenious, innnovative and FREE for consumers. Especially in this recession, I think getting music out to listeners for free beats any merchandise offer ever.