The band promoted Backspacer wrong, made little sense

musicismylife78

When I first heard about the Target deal, I didnt cringe about the fact they were doing a deal with a major corporation, my anger or disappointment was the fact this was sort of a wierd and silly idea if they wanted to sell records.

Its clear, for Avocado and Backspacer, the band, explicitly were hoping that these records would sell big numbers, and the press and marketing for both records reflected that.

I posted about this months ago, when the deal was announced and I said it was silly to do this, with Target, to focus attention and hype and the media, on the album itself as opposed to the songs specifically or the band.

My buisness plan for backspacer would have been: liscencing some of the tunes for use in tv shows like Greys Anatomy or The Hills. Just Breathe or The End, no doubt would fit perfectly, as some emotional scene in Greys. I would have liscenced the tunes to movies and trailers. I would have given the album out, to all stores, thus the Target deal wouldnt be in place, and it would have been available as instant download for 5 bucks on the Ten Club website, with various other versions of the album also on the site, maybe a slightly higher priced Backspacer for 10 bucks but included would be a free LP of the record and then additional bonus tracks only available with that purchase. I would have forgotten about Spin and rolling Stone magazine as both are non issues at this point, and done interviews with the online press even those that arent necesarily PJ friendly. Interviews with Pichfork, maybe do one of those things for Pitchfork TV where they play a few songs on the rooftop of the Pitchfork headquarters. I would do press with Stereogum and Brooklyn Vegan. Does the band still oppose using their music in tv commercials for products? They obviously think some corporations even if they are huge can still be fair and just, so, why not lend the use of the songs for commercials? The Shins did a commercial for Mcdonalds, and as far as I know they are still considered a viable and top tier band in indie rock. They could have done press with KEXP, oneof the premiere rock stations in the nation that actually plays good rock music, and ignores 3 doors down and Nickelback.

This is a smart band. A wise band. But as I pointed out months ago, they are clueless as to how to deal with the current musical climate, which of course is understandable.

It makes no sense to spend a ton of time, doing an elaborate liner notes and album cover package. PJ are the masters at this, but the time for it has passed. They should have pffered the Tom Tomorrow stuff, exclusively for the 10 buck version of the record that I mentioned above. I am not complaining. And in any case, my buisness plan that I outlined, doesnt leave the band with less money and less sales, in fact my model gains them large numbers of new fans, and a deluge of press, and lots of sales.

The crux of the issue is that the majority of bands, and labels are clueless as to how to proceed in this new downloading era. Pearl jam is no exception. I think the band had a million options, and mulled them all, especially when In Rainbows shook things up. I think they took a wrong turn though.

cippociappo

Are you implying that Backspacer didn't sell well?
You maybe right, but consider that the whole music industry sells less records than ever before, I think it's at its lowest point. That also might explain the not-so-great sales of Backspacer (or, to put it in another way, the lower-than-you-expected sales).

Some stuff you said, like the McDonald's thing, I just don't think Pearl Jam would ever do that.
I mean, it's f*%&ing McDonald's we are talking about!!
I wouldn't like if they would help them selling hamburgers!! (if you wanna call those things hamburgers)

I think they tried to find a compromise between selling and keeping their integrity... what you are proposing is, in my opinion, a complete sell out. I don't see that happening

musicismylife78

cippociappo wrote:

Are you implying that Backspacer didn't sell well?
You maybe right, but consider that the whole music industry sells less records than ever before, I think it's at its lowest point. That also might explain the not-so-great sales of Backspacer (or, to put it in another way, the lower-than-you-expected sales).

Some stuff you said, like the McDonald's thing, I just don't think Pearl Jam would ever do that.
I mean, it's f*%&ing McDonald's we are talking about!!
I wouldn't like if they would help them selling hamburgers!! (if you wanna call those things hamburgers)

I think they tried to find a compromise between selling and keeping their integrity... what you are proposing is, in my opinion, a complete sell out. I don't see that happening [/quote>

My point is that, to sell records in this current economy and in the current digital age, with downloading and all, is tough in general. But I dont think you go about changing that, by doing press with magazines that have zero tastemaking potential anymore, and I dont think you strike deals with a major corporation who obviously is looking for physical products. By and large people arent gonna say "gee I wish I had that new PJ album, let me drive over to my local target and buy it for 10 bucks". Anyone who thinks this is a realistic mindset for a majority of the music loving public is insane and should commit themselves to a mental facility tonight.
People are gonna say, "I want that new PJ record, and I can get it for free this second online". So you admit that fact, you deal with it, and look for ways to combat that. Spin or Target aint gonna provide much combat, friends.

Secondly, things have changed. If you dont know this, you may want to crawl out under that rock. Bands music litters the tv landscape, the movie landscape, and the commercial landscape. And the majority of bands who do this stuff arent considered sell outs. They arent being boycotted by a large majority of fans.

The point is, if you have a pulse at all, I think it should be clear that talking to Spin or Rolling Stone or doing press with MTV or whatever, is meaningless and isnt going to drive up sales one bit. The fact that the band was unwilling to do things different for Backspacer, or didnt know the facts as I just laid them out, is disappointed and in many ways they shot themselves in the foot.

Drumming up hype, attention and media for a specific band these days, I think you look to alternative or non orthodox measures. I dont understand what would be so horrible about liscencing the new songs to tv shows and movies. Thats the way you get money these days, and sales.

I am not a genius. But I find it puzzling bands like PJ continue to doddle. Its a proven formula folks. You liscence songs for tv, in some pivotal scene and you are flooded with people on you tube, commenting, "I heard this on Greys last night" etc... And its also a proven formula that press with Pitchfork, gets you increased sales and attention.

Ledbetterman10

I just can't believe they never released a second single.

ryanrunning

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

I just can't believe they never released a second single.

the next single is coming out soon no?

Get_Right

well they got a guarantee for one million records from target
plus sales from here
plus indie sales
plus itunes downloads
so, notwithstanding the soundscan figures, which reflects only retail sales, they locked in a million in sales before they sold a single unit through the other channels


pretty smart if you ask me-a band is lucky to move a million units these days-and they did so without reducing what is sold here, at itunes and in record stores

they went to target because of the guarantee and the ability to sell here-smart-they dont need to promote it
Target does because they are stuck with a million copies

and all that licensing to tv, movies etc is done because they dont sell records anymore and bands are looking to replace that lost revenue-the promotional aspect is just a bonus-one that PJ does not need with the target deal

kudos for that

musicismylife78

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

I just can't believe they never released a second single.

For being a record that was made to sell, its commercial sounding, the most accesible record maybe ever by PJ, and yet they seem to be so clueless about how to go about all this. I would be putting out 4 or 5 singles out. Just Breathe should have been the first single. it should have been liscened to Gossip Girl, and 30 rock and One Tree Hill. The band should have been doing press with indie outlets, they should have called up Pitchfork and demanded they be interviewed.

Does anyone seriously think that they are gonna win fans by that cover story with Spin? If I want to find out about new fresh, and breaking bands and music news, I sure as hell aint gonna wait for a month, until a new spin arrives in my mailbox I am gonna look those bands up right now, online. Who seriously waits with baited breath each month for their Spin or Rolling Stone? And if you do, how is any of the music news current? To find out right now what Uncle Bruce is up to or PJ, it makes zero sense to rely on old media to provide you with that info.

Firecloud

@musicismylife: I doubt you'd find many supporters on these boards for your views, but I think you make a very good point about old-model marketing vs. how things are done now. The same-old-format approach comes with the territory of having the same handlers through most of their careers, I'd imagine. Backspacer should've done much better than it did, all things considered. Who the fuck buys Spin/Rollingstone magazine anymore? Let's not even get started down the MTV trail.

As for your Pitchfork comment, however, I believe/hope you're wrong. That site is widely known to be rooted in shady/payola promotion practices and poor taste.

The record industry is selling less than ever before, yes, but Pearl Jam have name recognition on their side and a long, solid reputation. They could've used that industry capital a lot more wisely in the marketing run-up, in addition to the million-guarantee they reportedly got from Target.

CJMST3K

Get_Right wrote:

well they got a guarantee for one million records from target

And who knows whether if they sell 200,000 if that was their goal all along. Maybe Target assumes that the average person buying Backspacer for $10 will also be buying underwear, cheerios, duracell batteries and 2 pair of pants, making their total bill $53. ...I wonder if just selling records to people coming in was the plan, or banking on them spending more money for other things was the plan.

Get_Right

musicismylife78 wrote:

it should have been liscened to Gossip Girl, and 30 rock and One Tree Hill. The band should have been doing press with indie outlets, they should have called up Pitchfork and demanded they be interviewed.

that represents everything the band hates about the music industry and is against

PJ has no desire to sell 10 million records and be indie or media darlings
they are happy with what they have

musicismylife78

Get_Right wrote:

well they got a guarantee for one million records from target
plus sales from here
plus indie sales
plus itunes downloads
so, notwithstanding the soundscan figures, which reflects only retail sales, they locked in a million in sales before they sold a single unit through the other channels


pretty smart if you ask me-a band is lucky to move a million units these days-and they did so without reducing what is sold here, at itunes and in record stores

they went to target because of the guarantee and the ability to sell here-smart-they dont need to promote it
Target does because they are stuck with a million copies

right but the question is, is Target a reliable way to market music these days. If you are serious about selling some music, as PJ seems with this record, why go through Target? I have pointed out a ton of other ways and means to go about getting your music heard and hyped.

Any band wanting to increase sales and attention for their band, I think, would be wise to do something other than Target. If we are serious about getting PJ's music heard and getting the band as much sales as we can, lets do it seriously and in an adult and smart manner.

Selling music via Target doesnt make sense. Promoting music via some store like that is pointless these days.

They blew it. \

Get_Right

CJMST3K wrote:

Get_Right wrote:

well they got a guarantee for one million records from target

And who knows whether if they sell 200,000 if that was their goal all along. Maybe Target assumes that the average person buying Backspacer for $10 will also be buying underwear, cheerios, duracell batteries and 2 pair of pants, making their total bill $53. ...I wonder if just selling records to people coming in was the plan, or banking on them spending more money for other things was the plan.

exactly, its just part of a larger marketing scheme for target, image, foot traffic
plus, they were probably taking cues from wal mart's deals with the eagles etc.....
all that stuff

zappa99

If they played a Pearl Jam song on "The Hills" could you imagine the outrage on this board.

Get_Right

musicismylife78 wrote:

right but the question is, is Target a reliable way to market music these days. If you are serious about selling some music, as PJ seems with this record, why go through Target? I have pointed out a ton of other ways and means to go about getting your music heard and hyped.

Any band wanting to increase sales and attention for their band, I think, would be wise to do something other than Target. If we are serious about getting PJ's music heard and getting the band as much sales as we can, lets do it seriously and in an adult and smart manner.

Selling music via Target doesnt make sense. Promoting music via some store like that is pointless these days.

They blew it. \

you are assuming the band wants more exposure or desires more sales, its my belief they probably dont
and the target deal represented a drastic change which the band only went for as a consequence of the rampant piracy-like I said, there are few acts moving one million copies even with all the commercial exposure you speak of-they got that without compromising the ability to sell directly through the 10c or through Itunes-like cippociappo said its almost like the perfect compromise between "selling out" and not selling any records at all.

musicismylife78

Get_Right wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

it should have been liscened to Gossip Girl, and 30 rock and One Tree Hill. The band should have been doing press with indie outlets, they should have called up Pitchfork and demanded they be interviewed.

that represents everything the band hates about the music industry and is against

PJ has no desire to sell 10 million records and be indie or media darlings
they are happy with what they have

agree and disagree. Sure the band arent trying to be the next Jonas Brothers, and they were never going to sell 10 million even if they had done everything I mentioned. That said, the band the last 2 record cycle, have been overtly and explicitly suggesting they want to sell a ton of records. Mike specifically said this in Rolling Stone in 2006. And Ed and Mike both said similar things in the recent Spin article. They arent gonna do commercials for US Bank. But they also arent the "we hate fame and celebrity" band that they used to be circa 1995. From Ten to Riot Act, you can make the case, that the band really didnt care if they sold 1 copy of their records, and in fact, took active steps to reduce the number of people who called themselves fans. But when you start doing press for Verizon (Avocado), or do the whole "Rock Band" DLC thing, or start being quoted in magazines talking about how you hope the record is commercially successful, and you make a record that is commercial and accessible, then this is a starkly different era of PJ we are talking about.

musicismylife78

Get_Right wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

right but the question is, is Target a reliable way to market music these days. If you are serious about selling some music, as PJ seems with this record, why go through Target? I have pointed out a ton of other ways and means to go about getting your music heard and hyped.

Any band wanting to increase sales and attention for their band, I think, would be wise to do something other than Target. If we are serious about getting PJ's music heard and getting the band as much sales as we can, lets do it seriously and in an adult and smart manner.

Selling music via Target doesnt make sense. Promoting music via some store like that is pointless these days.

They blew it. \

you are assuming the band wants more exposure or desires more sales, its my belief they probably dont
and the target deal represented a drastic change which the band only went for as a consequence of the rampant piracy-like I said, there are few acts moving one million copies even with all the commercial exposure you speak of-they got that without compromising the ability to sell directly through the 10c or through Itunes-its almost like the perfect compromise between "selling out" and not selling any records at all.

If they didnt want more sales or exposure, why do press with Spin? Why do the DLC thing for Rock Band? Again dust off that 2006 Rolling Stone issue, and read what Mike has to say about what he hopes in terms of sales of Avocado. And please dust off the Spin article, where Mike and Ed specifically say, they want backspacer to sell some units.

Does the band want to be the hottest ticket in town? Probably not, but lets not kid ourselves. The last two albums and the press surrounding them, have been explicitly about trying to get attention and fame. If you cant see that, its hard to even discuss basic facts with you. Because this is a basic fact. Its out of the mouths of the band.

Im sorry, but when Ed and Mike talk about wanting to sell more records, I would assume thats what they mean. They want to sell more records. That to me indicates, the band IS NOT happy with their place, and IS NOT satisfied with the current level of sales.

Ledbetterman10

musicismylife78 wrote:

Ledbetterman10 wrote:

I just can't believe they never released a second single.

For being a record that was made to sell, its commercial sounding, the most accesible record maybe ever by PJ, and yet they seem to be so clueless about how to go about all this. I would be putting out 4 or 5 singles out. Just Breathe should have been the first single. it should have been liscened to Gossip Girl, and 30 rock and One Tree Hill. The band should have been doing press with indie outlets, they should have called up Pitchfork and demanded they be interviewed.

Does anyone seriously think that they are gonna win fans by that cover story with Spin? If I want to find out about new fresh, and breaking bands and music news, I sure as hell aint gonna wait for a month, until a new spin arrives in my mailbox I am gonna look those bands up right now, online. Who seriously waits with baited breath each month for their Spin or Rolling Stone? And if you do, how is any of the music news current? To find out right now what Uncle Bruce is up to or PJ, it makes zero sense to rely on old media to provide you with that info.

I think putting out "Just Breathe" as a single would be just a clueless as not putting out one at all. I'm sure someone will say it has "cross-over appeal" but what I know is that The Fixer was successful on rock radio....so Got Some or Amongst The Waves would be too.

Get_Right

musicismylife78 wrote:

But they also arent the "we hate fame and celebrity" band that they used to be circa 1995. From Ten to Riot Act, you can make the case, that the band really didnt care if they sold 1 copy of their records, and in fact, took active steps to reduce the number of people who called themselves fans. But when you start doing press for Verizon (Avocado), or do the whole "Rock Band" DLC thing, or start being quoted in magazines talking about how you hope the record is commercially successful, and you make a record that is commercial and accessible, then this is a starkly different era of PJ we are talking about.

No doubt the bands outlook has changed these two records were different because
1) they were free from the record company and had a greater financial interest
2) avocado was a clive davis experiment-and the most promotion the band has ever done
3) piracy has reached an all time high-bands dont sell as much as before and get lower guarantees for their records

your premise neglects one factor, the core PJ fan base
I will go out on limb and say that PJ would lose a lot of its loyal fan base, resulting in lower concert revenues and future record and merchandise sales if they were to take the route you suggest

sure they might make $10 million more this year if they followed your suggestions, but then what about next time around

they know exactly what they are doing no question about it

MR37543

Get_Right wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

it should have been liscened to Gossip Girl, and 30 rock and One Tree Hill. The band should have been doing press with indie outlets, they should have called up Pitchfork and demanded they be interviewed.

that represents everything the band hates about the music industry and is against

PJ has no desire to sell 10 million records and be indie or media darlings
they are happy with what they have

I absolutely agree.

Besides, if you want your sales numbers to skyrocket, you do press with the Wall Street Journal and NPR, both of which covered "Backpacer" and the band's deal with Target. As for the band's innovative deal with Target, I know that many in the music industry kept a close watch on the band's momentum and album sales and are now looking for ways for artists to benefit from future similar groundbreaking deals.

Furthermore, while TV licensing deals may benefit album sales for certain artists, the decision to not do so for "Backspacer" was a very smart decision on the band's part. This way, music supervisors can go to them if they're interested, giving the band more leverage than if the band just solicited them from the get-go.

Lastly, RTD and YTD sales standards for labels have dropped dramatically. An opening sales week of 200K like Pearl Jam did in this climate is not only a success but unheard of considering that most artists (not superstars) sell on a weekly basis at least 1k and can expect to see (or hope) for album sales of 50k physically and digitally.

I'd say, with "Backspacer," Pearl Jam surpassed their sales goal. And you know what? Good for them and us! At this point in their career, Pearl Jam can do anything they want with their catalogue because very few artists have the cache, the smarts, a powerful and innovative manager/press team behind them as well as a strong loyal following like they do.

Get_Right

musicismylife78 wrote:

If they didnt want more sales or exposure, why do press with Spin? Why do the DLC thing for Rock Band? Again dust off that 2006 Rolling Stone issue, and read what Mike has to say about what he hopes in terms of sales of Avocado. And please dust off the Spin article, where Mike and Ed specifically say, they want backspacer to sell some units.

Does the band want to be the hottest ticket in town? Probably not, but lets not kid ourselves. The last two albums and the press surrounding them, have been explicitly about trying to get attention and fame. If you cant see that, its hard to even discuss basic facts with you. Because this is a basic fact. Its out of the mouths of the band.

Im sorry, but when Ed and Mike talk about wanting to sell more records, I would assume thats what they mean. They want to sell more records. That to me indicates, the band IS NOT happy with their place, and IS NOT satisfied with the current level of sales.

good debate
they have always done interviews, letterman, etc
and of course they say that they want it to sell units-they do want to get paid
but you are taking a big leap from saying they want to sell records to saying that they are not happy with the current situation
Id bet they are very happy to have a million units guaranteed in this environment

I will admit I dont get the rockband thing

but at the end of the day, it really comes down to piracy
they dont make as much as they used to off a record- so they have done things they might not have done when they were selling 2-3 million records-its also the reason they raised ticket prices, unfortunately

NCBRI

Going the Target route may have meant fewer album sales, but it probably made them more money in the end while allowing them more freedom.